I don't know how people on this forum feel about either the iPod or Zune, but a friend of mine sent me this article and I found it interesting: http://www.applematters.com/index.php/section/comments/why-the-zune-will-outdo-the-ipod-111/

So what do you guys think? Personally, I never really liked the iPod anyway. It's not because of a whole "gawd apple r teh suk" thing, either. In fact, I don't think their stuff is bad, but I certainly don't prefer it. My thing with the iPod is I find their "intuitive design" to just be annoying. I really don't like the turn wheel, I don't like how you don't have much of a chance of even turning it on unless someone tells you how or you go the horrid route of randomly pushing buttons, and the interface takes too much steps to get anywhere or do anything you truly want.

I originally had a Creative Zen Nomad Jukebox, but then I kind of broke it and made it worthless. It's a shame, because I liked the touch pad better, though it could still be annoying. However, it had more buttons that were well labeled and actually made it more convenient to use, including a "shuffle" button that just jumped to "random play all" and a shortcut back to the menu. The interface was very nice as well, as it had plenty of options, yet minimized the steps it took to access them.

I replaced it with the Creative Zen V, which is like the Zen Mini, but they chose to go the iPod route by minimizing options and buttons. I haven't done research into it, but from how extensively I've explored I have yet to find a way to turn shuffle mode off. Once you hit random play all, shuffle is on for everything. Once again, I blame this on the limited options in an attempt to mimic Apple's iPod, but a very shoddy way of doing it.

I don't have a Zune, but I tried one out and honestly want one. The interface I found to be perfect to how I want it to work, and the buttons worked well. In fact, I prefer the button navigation instead of a touch pad or turn wheel. The only downside I've heard thus far was the software that comes with it, but since Creative's software seems to be fine for me I could probably just access the Zune with Creative's software.

What do you guys think? You fine with the iPod? Like the Zune? Or have some other not recognized brand you prefer?

I can say without reading the article: It will NOT beat the iPod. Whether it's better is a different story. (same whole OrangeBox/Halo3, other phones/iPhone, etc. deal: some just win by popularity, not quality)

Not locking people in would be a good thing. While Microsoft is notorious for that as well (Halo 2 for Vista, etc.) they're not going to be AS stingy as Apple has been.

Steve Wozniak came to my school recently, and he sort of thinks Apple has moved away from its intentions.

I would really like to see Sony make a real alternative to the Ipod. If they could just get the media side of Playstation Store together they could really give Apple some competition. Movies and music directly to your PS3 and PSP with ability to sync the content to other mini mp3 players. It would be a consumers dream come true.

I personally don't care for the Ipod I have a video Ipod and mini that were both given to me. I don't know if the Zune will out due Apple's Ipod but if it manages to give it competition that's good for all of us.

I've tried out demo units of the Zune in stores but I didn't feel like there was any reason to get one instead of an Ipod.

Steve Wozniak came to my school recently, and he sort of thinks Apple has moved away from its intentions.

Was this at RIT? He just came by here, but I didn't go. Didn't really have much interest.

Yeah. Unfortunately, much of it was just about his earlier life. Felt like the same story heard from Bill Gates and Steve Jobs.

It was probably a speech he gave at plenty of other Colleges, though, just like when Bill Clinton spoke at last year's graduation it was the same thing with local jokes thrown in.

Cool to see another RIT student on the boards.

The ipod has too much of a fan-base now. Enough to not even have to worry about such products. Even if it would be better.

For something to beat the ipod at this stage, it (the device) would have to have such a significant innovative ability to it, that apple's customers would "tune-out".

Like who knows, I can't think of any abilities right now to turn this into constructive criticism.

The ipod has too much of a fan-base now. Enough to not even have to worry about such products.

Pride cometh before the fall: we all know what sort of fan base the Super Nintendo and Genesis had, and they were ditched for a newcomer. Meanwhile, that same newcomer had the largest market share with the PS2, yet are at the bottom of the barrel searching for scraps now. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples outside of the gaming industry to show that a large fan base today doesn't guarantee a large fan base tomorrow.

ccesarano:
So what do you guys think?

Unlikely to surpass the iPod, at least not without a lot of time and several more revisions. iPod is at the same level as Kleenex, Xerox, and Band-Aid at this point, and that level of entrenchment is hard to break.

On the other hand, I have the current Zune (picked it up on Woot for cheap, along with one for my fiance) and I'm very happy with it - it's a solid piece of hardware, has a good feel to it, and functions very well. I particularly like the Zune Pass, which allows three PCs and two Zune devices unlimited music downloads on a monthly subscription plan - even if I don't download any music at all for the next year, I'll be coming out ahead at this point. The subscription-based songs can't be burned (kind of obvious), but they can stream to my 360, which is hooked up to my stereo.

I am really looking forward to the upcoming update though (November), especially the tie-in with Media Center. I already have a third-party solution in place to convert my recorded TV to portable versions, but having everything integrated will be nice. The new hardware is even more tempting, if only for an 80gb version.

... but since Creative's software seems to be fine for me I could probably just access the Zune with Creative's software.

Unfortunately, like iPods are linked directly to iTunes, Zunes are linked to the Zune software - you won't be able to get them to work with another media suite. The software is also Windows only; It's basically a reskinned version of Windows Media Player (until the November update at least). Microsoft has the advantage there, as they can afford to ignore OS X while the reverse isn't true for Apple.

Outside the "beating" point though, I do think Apple is losing ground in terms of technophile perception. The iPhone/iPod Touch artificial distinctions (not to mention the unlocking/dev kit debacle) and a general lack of significant improvements in their Classic/Nano lines isn't really earning much good will. The free firmware updates and the new hardware, on the other hand, is really making the Zune look sharp right now - something completely opposite of how it has looked since launch. Hopefully the competition will really push both companies to improve their devices - in the end, we're the ones that win.

I'm already seeing Zune products in bargain bins. Zune is nowhere. Me-too attempt by Microsoft to enter a saturated market. iPod lives on because iTunes' library can't be beat.

ccesarano:

Pride cometh before the fall: we all know what sort of fan base the Super Nintendo and Genesis had, and they were ditched for a newcomer.

There is a big difference between the generations in game consoles and the generations in portable music devices. Ipod took over by bring large storage mp3 playback to a market that was really still stick with portable cd players. It will take something equally as revolutionary to beat it out of the market, and I honestly can't see digital music going the way of the audio cassette anytime soon.

i certainly think the zune 2.0 has a much better chance of gaining marketshare than the first zune did...

let's hope someone can break apple's iron fisted grip over the mp3 player market. it's not good for business to have consumers buy apple products regardless of their feature set/value in comparison to the competition.

Meh the Korean companies have been light years ahead of both Apple and Microsoft; You can find DAPs that will run circles around the Ipod in terms of playback capabilities before you even start talking about hacks. The Ipod does have some key advantages though.

The UI is simply superior to just about everything currently out. The Ipod made the right deciscion to display songs using metadata rather than using a flat file system, using a method that allows for an effectively infinite number of ways to display the same data is a huge plus especially as you start to move to hardware that allows users to entre in complex search criteria.

The Ipod does not make the mistake of not bundling software with the player in order to facillitate cross platform functionality. The other players out there tend to use m3u format for playlists, the major problem with this is that the m3u format is written differently by different operating systems because of the way that paths are handled.

With the Cowon X5 for example if you take a playlist written in Linux onto the player and plug in to a computer running windows and try to load the playlist chances are it will fail to do so because the program will be expecting the paths inside the file to be written with a backslash rather than the standard forward slash. (I say standard because every other OS I can think of uses a forward slash for path deliniation, not to mention the fact that all URLs use the forward slash.) Basically you end up needing to have programs that translate the path delimiters and at that point you mine as well just go the Itunes route.

The last real advantage at least for the world outside of Asia is the advertising.

What is needed to break the Ipod dominance is for someone to learn how to make a nice UI that does not sabotage itself with folder-tree only or half broken database foolishness; after that what is needed is advertising. I truly doubt that the Zune is the answer even though MS is in the best position to accomplish this.

So what do you guys think? Personally, I never really liked the iPod anyway. It's not because of a whole "gawd apple r teh suk" thing, either. In fact, I don't think their stuff is bad, but I certainly don't prefer it. My thing with the iPod is I find their "intuitive design" to just be annoying. I really don't like the turn wheel, I don't like how you don't have much of a chance of even turning it on unless someone tells you how or you go the horrid route of randomly pushing buttons, and the interface takes too much steps to get anywhere or do anything you truly want.

I originally had a Creative Zen Nomad Jukebox, but then I kind of broke it and made it worthless. It's a shame, because I liked the touch pad better, though it could still be annoying. However, it had more buttons that were well labeled and actually made it more convenient to use, including a "shuffle" button that just jumped to "random play all" and a shortcut back to the menu. The interface was very nice as well, as it had plenty of options, yet minimized the steps it took to access them.

I replaced it with the Creative Zen V, which is like the Zen Mini, but they chose to go the iPod route by minimizing options and buttons. I haven't done research into it, but from how extensively I've explored I have yet to find a way to turn shuffle mode off. Once you hit random play all, shuffle is on for everything. Once again, I blame this on the limited options in an attempt to mimic Apple's iPod, but a very shoddy way of doing it.

I don't have a Zune, but I tried one out and honestly want one. The interface I found to be perfect to how I want it to work, and the buttons worked well. In fact, I prefer the button navigation instead of a touch pad or turn wheel. The only downside I've heard thus far was the software that comes with it, but since Creative's software seems to be fine for me I could probably just access the Zune with Creative's software.

What do you guys think? You fine with the iPod? Like the Zune? Or have some other not recognized brand you prefer?

I think most of you will find this admission a bit hard to swallow, but I seriously don't see that much difference between the iPod or the Zen or the Zune, or any of these other music players. While that might sound like the ravings of somebody who is unaccustomed to technology, in fact, my argument is based on a knowledge of computing hardware.

Look at it this way - almost every single music player you can get on the market uses an ARM-architecture processor. Whether it's an ARM7TDMI, as found in the iPod, or an ARM11, as found in the Zune, or a custom-made ARM core, as in the Zen, it doesn't matter - Apple's dual-processor (I believe) system seems to have the same sort of power as the Zune's single ARM11 core, and there doesn't seem to be much difference in their capabilities with regards to their processors. (I know some of the Cowons use an AMD Alchemy processor, based on the now-infrequently-used MIPS architecture - incidentally, I wouldn't have associated AMD with low-power, low-heat processors until the OLPC project.) The only thing you can really comment on is their respective firmware. Coming from a background where I've used different operating systems, particularly DOS, Windows and Linux, a change of user interface is unlikely to be impressed upon me unless I find some major flaw with it.

Compare this to the PC, which actually possesses more difference and a higher standard deviation than any of these music players. OK, almost all PC processors are based on x86, but look at the differences in, oh, let's say graphics cards. There's sufficient difference in an ATI and an NVIDIA chipset to actually comment upon. OK, the operating systems are 98% Windows, but the hardware can be stunningly different - I defy you to play something like Team Fortress 2 on a GeForce 8600 and an 8800 and not tell the difference in performance, and they're from the same manufacturer. And consider that the average gaming PC (and I'm not even talking about the average consumer PC, BTW) is about two generations behind the top end of the performance curve, and you can see the massive differences when comparing PCs versus music players.

(BTW, I've got an iPod nano, 2nd generation, which I received as a present, in case you were wondering...)

I think it just comes down to most people not knowing anything about the Zune. When someone askes you what product you go for when looking for a mp3 player that has tons of storage and is convient you are going to say the IPod. I never even heard of the zune until I started to work in a electronics department a few months back. The zune had what, perhaps two commericals on tv that I ever ran across. It also never mentioned anything more indepth than it being just a simple mp3 player. Microsoft hasn't done a very good job in getting the Zune name out into the world, let alone the features of it. When you first hear word of the Zune you think its just another run of the mill mp3 player nothing more or less. Most people, everyday kids and parents don't take the time they should to learn about the products they are looking to buy. They just hear word about things down the pipe line and they just leave that as good enough and rush out to buy it before everyone else does. Once Zune catches on in the eyes of younger consumers it will give the IPod a run for its money. I'm sure of it.

I have a Zune, and I used to rock iPod. I LOVE my Zune! Love it to death! I honestly feel that it is way better than anything Apple has offered. The flaw used to be the desktop software, which they just updated and it's wonderful.

I received an iPod Shuffle as a Christmas present two years ago, and it barely lived out the warranty before dying. The weird thing is that it died in my pocket; as far as I know, it wasn't reading or writing data at all, was switched off, and was even stationary when it pooped out. One day in the parking lot at work I try to turn it on and get a blinking red light; when I got it home iTunes couldn't even recognise as an iPod, let alone diagnose the problem.

You'll forgive me, I hope, if I get a bit snide when I hear "it just works".

(And what did FM tuners ever do to Steve Jobs that he's so dead-set against putting one in an Apple product? Was there a radio version of the Pippen or Newton I haven't heard about?)

Right now I have a very battered 4-year-old mp3 player by MPIO; the proprietary software is bug-infested crap, but so long as I can still write to SD cards it still plays well despite a busted battery hatch held closed with a rubber band. I'm starting to look at replacing it now, and I am seriously considering a Zune.

Not that I think the Zune will ever overtake the iPod... iPod is too entrenched, and iTunes is certainly adequate at delivering content.

-- Steve

ipod may just be too buried into our culture to get rid of entirely, but i do believe that zune will do incredibly well nevertheless. personally, i am against ipod, as whenever i buy them, they break down and cry in a small corner, just short of a month over warranty. right now, im staying with my sony ericsson walkman mobile phone. its reliable, its got as much storage as i want to afford, i did have a creative, and the jukebox software for the computer that came with it for storage and transfer was amazing. albeit the first creative i had broke, when my sister threw it down a pothole, and the other lasted a good 3 years, before the touchpad refused to answer me, except if i pressed it REALLY hard, or just listened to music using "random play all", my phone is doing fine for now, i liked creative, but for now, my phone will do.

To those who refused to read the article, i think you'll find your an idiot, as an ignorance of knowledge is a fools move, even if you dont like knowing it, know.
As that is what gives us the advantage in the long run. We. Know.

I for one avoid hugely hyped stuff mainly cause the price tag matchs the hype, they both strike me as overrated MP players.

I went back into the archives and found this.

I believe the iPod is winning and hasn't won yet. Why? because Zune is Microsoft and then have enough funding to keep the product line going for a while.

Anyone else want to bring this back from the dead and put in their 2 cents?

I, personally, don't want either. I had a great little 2GB MP3 player. I dropped it and broke it. But it was AU$100 and worked fine. Only issue was you had to "sync" it with WMP and it took light years to put songs on it.

If anyone can recommend a good MP3 player that has easy-to-use features and is just a click and drag, it would be awesome.

perfectimo:
I went back into the archives and found this.

I believe the iPod is winning and hasn't won yet. Why? because Zune is Microsoft and then have enough funding to keep the product line going for a while.

Anyone else want to bring this back from the dead and put in their 2 cents?

Which is funnily enough, opposite to Apple, the iPod basically gave them the funding they needed to bring their home computers back to a competitive level.

You asked for the loose change, so there it is.

Oddly enough, I now have a Zune... the 8GB model, as I prefer Flash drives to hard discs when I'm sticking it in my pocket. So far I'm enjoying it, especially with the Wi-Fi synching and the great FM tuner, but it seems a tad sluggish sometimes when paging through with the "back" button and I'd rather use a less processor-heavy synching program than the Zune software. (I synch from my Origami laptop, as it's what I carry with me when I travel, and it's 900MHz Celeron CPU often maxxes out when pushing video.)

I had a Shuffle, and between the two I think the Zune has better audio quality by a smidgen. Probably not enough to justify it over the other by itself, but the Zune also has a bigger screen and more storage for almost the same price as the equivalent-sized iPod Nano.

But I still think that the iPod brand is too well established for the Zune to win.

-- Steve

I've gotta Zen V by Creative and am quite happy with it, myself.

I'm averse to ipods partly because everyone has one (am I a snob?) and partly because the white headphones tell every chav for a mile you have something worth mugging you for.

Personally this is what I was going to go for but it appears play have stopped stocking them, choosing a new range of more expensive models with less storage, *grumble*

http://www.play.com/Electronics/Electronics/4-/3476801/-/Product.html

Zunes and iPods are pretty much identicle. Zunes are a bit more durable, iPods are a bit smaller. Price is comparable although Zune has cheaper models (with less memory).

I have a Zune, somewhat because I avoid Apple products whenever possible but mostly because I didn't need more than 4 gigabytes.

Ipod is better than Zuneif you:

A)Have a Mac
B)Will buy the new one every year

Zune is better than Ipod if you:
A)Have a PC
B)Have a 360

Other MP3 players are better:
A)Always.

iPod will always dominate sales though.

iPod is this generation's Walkman. SONY ruled the portable tape/CD player market. The products were no longer tape players, they were Walkmans.

This generation the word mp3 player has been replaced by the word ipod. The ipod rules its market and will continue to do so until the next big portable device is released. The Walkman name is a joke now, a shadow of its former self, the ipod still has a few years left before such a thing happens to it.

My main reason to get an iPod, apart from being a wannabe hipster, is I use it as a portable harddrive.

I had a cheap little 2gb creative zen nano that I think I paid less than $50 for and lasted me years until I gave it to my brother. It even one-upped one of them expensive Ipods because it had FM radio.

But as it's been said a few times already. Ipod is synonymous for mp3 player these days. When my father saw my zen nano he asked me if it was "one of those Ipods".

I just wanted something that played music, so I bought an ipod. Thats about it. I really like it, but not in a wank-all-over-Steve-Jobs'-face way. It works. Thats what I wanted.

I hate it when people defend their ipod/zune to the death, just because they don't like the other one. They both do the same damn thing.