ehal256: According to Pharsyde's neutral jedi, very very few could take him out. very few characters could take on a jedi 1v1. Pharsyde's suggestions are all possible though, and Dr. Who (I guess, but it is kinda lame)
play a D&D game. then tell me bane wouldent kick a jedi's arse.
(and i ment irenicus if you diddent stop him. but that doesnt count so foget i said it at all, i just keep triping over my own mouth in this thread so i think i'm goint to stop here)
sadly, i've never played d&d, although im definitely not ruling out the possiblity, i wasn't trying to say that those are the ONLY things that could kill the aforementioned jedi, but just the stuff that i could think of
ehal256: According to Pharsyde's neutral jedi, very very few could take him out.
A couple examples people have said.
1) Aliens (from the Alien series, obviously): 1 on 1 no, powerful jedi masters (Kyle Katarn for example) can use an ability called Force Protection,its pretty much a shield of force energy, to block particles (such as bullets, and blaster bolts), while in combat, so alien acid blood would not kill the jedi. Lightsabers also instantly cauterize wounds that they cause, so no acid spray would be likely to occur.
2)A shotgun: as I explained earlier, force protection would block all incoming particles, if some got through somehow, the jedi could push them back with the force, and block the rest with his/her lightsaber(s).
3)Hunting Rifle: Precognition enough to dodge sniper rifle has been shown in games such as Jedi Knight 2, so no.
4)Anything immune to electricity: a lightsaber is not a jedi master's only weapon, here's a rudimentary list of possible force attacks a master could use, telekinesis based attacks, electric based attacks, pure matter destruction based attacks (Force Destruction, if anyone was wondering), and if powerful enough, direct control of molecules themselves (no jedi has become powerful enough to do any more than create a tiny bit of light afaik).
5)Lethal Radiation Poisoning: I'm not sure about this one, Force Protection could possibly stop it, if not Force Heal could probably repair any damage done, it works at the molecular level with midichlorians, it artificially stimulates cell division wth the energy of the force... if not we have a winner :P but this was about a 1v1
very few characters could take on a jedi 1v1. Pharsyde's suggestions are all possible though, and Dr. Who (I guess, but it is kinda lame)
Midiwhatzamahuh? Most people who have even a passing interest in Star Wars like to ignore that crap. Also, Han shot first, and last. But the cell division thing is the reason Force Heal would not be likely to work. Stimulating cell division would fail, because the cells would not be able to divide properly. Of course, this would be a non-issue if they don't survive the THERMAL radiation... then they're just ash.
I just think the MI are fun to bring up in threads like this. My brother once came across a Samus vs. Master Chief thread, then turned to me and asked about Starship Troopers. I told him they have jump jets, about 2000 lbs. of armor, and nukes, he posted that, and everyone in the thread responded, more or less, with "Well, shit."
I was thinking that force healing might be able to repair the damage that caused the cell's division to fail. then again, maybe that's too powerful. but technically, a jedi with enough power can make changes to matter at the molecular level, but that's not really fair, and it would never have happened in that magnitude anyways.
If it even was still going towards them because they decided to not move, they would then be able to force stop and redirect it. I can imagine that a super battle droid would weight much more than a rocket (making up for the difference in velocity) and the masters were able to throw them around like ragdolls. So, no, a rocket couldn't stop a master or even probably any Jedi that had slightly significant force powers.
Deadpool (Marvel comics) Double H (BG&E) Grey Fox (MGS) Jain Zar (w40k) Kratos (GoW) Tarterus (Halo) Nordom (PS:T, needs proper gear settings) Okku (NWN2: MotB) Pretty much any Space Marine ever (w40k) The Red Terror (w40k) Archaon (WHFB) Pretty much any MMO raid fight Brass (Wildstorm Comics) Any Transformer that doesn't turn into an animal Most transformers that DO turn into animals Most anime / manga characters Dante, Virgil, or any other boss from (Devil May Cry) Coat of Snow (nWoD) Any Tau battlesuit (w40k) Samus, Dark Samus (Metroid) Earthworm Jim Felix (Armour) Galrauch, First of the Chaos Dragons (WHFB) Ghazghkull (w40k) Glory (Buffy the Vampire Slayer) Kent (Armour) K'Z'K, The Vowelless One (Sluggy Freelance) Old One Eye (w40k) Pretty much any MechWarrior Ratchet (Ratchet & Clank) Razorfang (Vor the Maelstrom) Red Stick (nWoD) Any mutant that is in a Marvel comic, depending on the writer Schlock (Schlock Mercenary) She-Hulk Spiderman (both from Marvel Comics) Tha'hon, the Deep (nWoD) The Beast (Kung Fu Hustle) The Raven King (Heavenly Sword), and while we're on that, Nariko could too The Unholy (nWoD) The Vision The Nightbringer Broken Tusk Lu Tze (Discworld) Dr. Who (as is mentioned previously) Bishop (Marvel Comics, just HAD to mention him as he'd stand there and laugh at the Jedis as they can't do anything to him) Any DC Comics character, ever. (Particularly the Kryptons, but whatever) War Machine, Iron Man (Marvel Comics) Galactus (MC) Time Master (Freedom Force) Ultron (MC) Onslaught (MC) Melissan (BG2: ToB) The Ravager Elminster (Forgotten Realms) Apocalypse (MC) Jack the Plaid (Zebra Girl) Nagash the Great (WHFB) Lord Nobunaga (Onimusha 3) Horus or The Emperor (w40k) Godzilla (GOJIRA!) I hate to say it, but... Sephiroth. Or any other FF villain. Raistlin (Dragonlance) Thanos (MC) Holiday Overlord Bun Bun (Sluggy Freelance) Any of the Fantastic Four, except Mr. Fantastic. Unless he's in a lab setting (MC) Any high level D&D character / challenge SHELTEM (M&M 1,2,3,4,5) Lord Xeen (M&M 4) An awful lot of dragons, no matter what mythos.
Oh, shit, I just remembered. Anyone seen Lexx? The Lexx is a single being, so it would still be 1 vs. 1. Jedi loses so long as Lexx's captain is around to allow it to fire at... whatever the Jedi is standing on. You could argue that it makes it 2 vs. 1, but one of those two could literally be retarded, so I think it's still not that big a deal, right? Especially with some of the crazy things which people in this thread have pulled from any crappy Star Wars comic/anime/book they can find.
For those who don't know, Lexx is a living spacecraft from a Canadian/German-produced mini-series which eventually spun off into a full-blown TV series on the Sci-fi channel. It's the size of Manhattan and it blows up planets, but it can't use its weapon without its captain telling it to do so (in the show, its captain was an amoral, dim-witted, cowardly bastard... clearly, the minimum requirements for that position are less than demanding). Damn, I miss that show. I have the original mini-series somewhere.
EDIT: Oh, and the Mantrid drones from the early part of the series would also work. One makes another, which makes another... they make some more... not a duel anymore. Too bad the entire universe would be destroyed, too.
In Episode III the Jedi were suffering a blanket blockout of the senses due to Sidious' galaxy-eating power. Nonetheless, remember obi and Ani detecting the mechanical danger to Padme in AOTC? They WILL detect it, even if it is a droid. Its like spiderman's spidey sense- magic power lacking any real biological explanation.
It is canon that you can't just pull a gun on a jedi and kill him. If his reflexes are dull or he doesnt eact in time,you could get him, but ideally the force would prevent such a situation from arising in the first place.
The truth is, the way the force is explained in the movies and novels, it is a plot device that can be used to explain any deus-ex-machina solution a writer can dream of to a Jedi's problems. I suspect the whole idea of Jedi's senses being dulled in the prequels was GL's way of escaping the plot holes that would surface in any story that involved Jedi getting fooled en-masse, aand/or killed by mere stormtroopers.
Minus the overreaching influence of the dark side, the Jedi would be near invincible due to perfect knowledge. Its like playing an FPS aganst a guy using a wallhack and an aimbot- an invisible force that lets him cheat his way to victory. The Jedi were easily fooled by sidious simply because they were overdependent on their senses, so once taken away from them, they stumbled around like a person recently blinded.
Its also worth mentioning that most of the incompetent Jedi were just that- incompetent. Even in the anime, there are many jedi that just get clobbered to death like idiots. The Jedi order *had* grown fat, lazy and weak due to years of prosperity and overconfidence.
Jedi vs mobile infantry? Since we are in novel-land here, I'll have you know that via battle meditation, a Jedi can control an army of millions, spanning an entire planet. This was possible even during the clone wars with underpowered Jedi.
If you want to face movie Jedi, you have to use mobile infantry from the starship troopers movie, and the outcome of that is pretty much cut-and-dry.
EDIT: death from radiation poisoning? Novel Jedi are pretty powerful with the good ol' force heal :-)
An excellent examination of the Jedi. I couldn't have said any better.
kratos, the prince(prince of persia), the elrics(fullmetal alchamist), i doubt master cheif could do it all he has is guns and those seem fairly useless against jedi plus i've whooped the master cheif's ass with bayman hundreds of times in DOA, so hayabusa and hayate probably could i mean ninja magic trumps jedi force. besides hayate is a super soldier there isn't many people who's shit he couldn't wreck.
in short, i think alot of guys could beat a jedi, superman, batman, most superheros have the speed and strength to take them out. plus the only things i've really seen jedi's do is use their lihtsabers or else lighting and push, i should say i'm not a fan of star wars, never have been, and the three new movies amazed me, it's like people convinced themselves that just because one of them was shitty no way could the next one be shitty, then it was, but they refused to beleive it, so they saw the next one even though it was just as shitty, then they told themselves the last one had to be good, and it's just as shitty, what a surprise, i gotta admit, for taking the concept of a samurai, mutating it with ninjas and monks and sprinkling on a little magic, george lucas is making a pissload of money off a concept that's not that original. how many games have had spellswords? nothing special about jedis, there i said it, now all the star wars fanboys can flame me all to hell.
Sinharvest: Oh yea i forgot about Raistlin. Any lvl 20 Wizard with wish spell can pretty much pwn a jedi. Or polymorph for that matter. Power word Death.
You fail a save and its over.
You mean level 17.
And PW:D doesn't have a saving throw.
And PaO is a level 8 spell, meaning lvl 15 to cast. And they could cast it on themselves, intentionally fail the saving throw, and turn into a nice big nasty dragon. Or a golem who would be utterly immune to Jedi in every sense of the word (light saber, force lightning, etc. does NOTHING but slow them down! Onoes!)
And frankly, all that is needed to take out a jedi anyways is an AoE to blow up their lightsaber. A level 5 wizard armed with fireball could pull it off.
In Episode III the Jedi were suffering a blanket blockout of the senses due to Sidious' galaxy-eating power. Nonetheless, remember obi and Ani detecting the mechanical danger to Padme in AOTC? They WILL detect it, even if it is a droid. Its like spiderman's spidey sense- magic power lacking any real biological explanation.
It is canon that you can't just pull a gun on a jedi and kill him. If his reflexes are dull or he doesnt eact in time,you could get him, but ideally the force would prevent such a situation from arising in the first place.
The truth is, the way the force is explained in the movies and novels, it is a plot device that can be used to explain any deus-ex-machina solution a writer can dream of to a Jedi's problems. I suspect the whole idea of Jedi's senses being dulled in the prequels was GL's way of escaping the plot holes that would surface in any story that involved Jedi getting fooled en-masse, aand/or killed by mere stormtroopers.
Minus the overreaching influence of the dark side, the Jedi would be near invincible due to perfect knowledge. Its like playing an FPS aganst a guy using a wallhack and an aimbot- an invisible force that lets him cheat his way to victory. The Jedi were easily fooled by sidious simply because they were overdependent on their senses, so once taken away from them, they stumbled around like a person recently blinded.
I know there's not much in the way of written rules for crossovers, but it's generally agreed that all forms of magic/favour with God/extreme luck that allows a protaganist to go unscathed in battle after battle in their own universe gets negated to prevent both sides from being completely invunerable to each other (or to prevent e.g. the officers of the Enterprise and a redshirt from singlehandedly wiping out the entire crew of the Death Star). Ergo, the Jedi would nessesarily be deprived of their more insurmountable powers for some reason: doesn't work outside their own universe, more powerful deity on the other side, hairdryers screw up midiclorons, whatever. The point to preserve some level of even-sidedness.
Jedi vs mobile infantry? Since we are in novel-land here, I'll have you know that via battle meditation, a Jedi can control an army of millions, spanning an entire planet. This was possible even during the clone wars with underpowered Jedi.
If you want to face movie Jedi, you have to use mobile infantry from the starship troopers movie, and the outcome of that is pretty much cut-and-dry.
*ignoring the fact that the EU consists almost entirely of novels (or wikipedia pages, in my case)*
Movie Starship Troopers were at best a parody of the Heinlein novels, and at worst a gratuitous rip-off. That's about like me insisting that the only true Jedi are Captain Lone Starr and Yoghurt from Spaceballs.
TSED: Fine, a large (and still not extensive) list:
Deadpool (Marvel comics) Double H (BG&E) Grey Fox (MGS) Jain Zar (w40k) Kratos (GoW) Tarterus (Halo) Nordom (PS:T, needs proper gear settings) Okku (NWN2: MotB) Pretty much any Space Marine ever (w40k) The Red Terror (w40k) Archaon (WHFB) Pretty much any MMO raid fight Brass (Wildstorm Comics) Any Transformer that doesn't turn into an animal Most transformers that DO turn into animals Most anime / manga characters Dante, Virgil, or any other boss from (Devil May Cry) Coat of Snow (nWoD) Any Tau battlesuit (w40k) Samus, Dark Samus (Metroid) Earthworm Jim Felix (Armour) Galrauch, First of the Chaos Dragons (WHFB) Ghazghkull (w40k) Glory (Buffy the Vampire Slayer) Kent (Armour) K'Z'K, The Vowelless One (Sluggy Freelance) Old One Eye (w40k) Pretty much any MechWarrior Ratchet (Ratchet & Clank) Razorfang (Vor the Maelstrom) Red Stick (nWoD) Any mutant that is in a Marvel comic, depending on the writer Schlock (Schlock Mercenary) She-Hulk Spiderman (both from Marvel Comics) Tha'hon, the Deep (nWoD) The Beast (Kung Fu Hustle) The Raven King (Heavenly Sword), and while we're on that, Nariko could too The Unholy (nWoD) The Vision The Nightbringer Broken Tusk Lu Tze (Discworld) Dr. Who (as is mentioned previously) Bishop (Marvel Comics, just HAD to mention him as he'd stand there and laugh at the Jedis as they can't do anything to him) Any DC Comics character, ever. (Particularly the Kryptons, but whatever) War Machine, Iron Man (Marvel Comics) Galactus (MC) Time Master (Freedom Force) Ultron (MC) Onslaught (MC) Melissan (BG2: ToB) The Ravager Elminster (Forgotten Realms) Apocalypse (MC) Jack the Plaid (Zebra Girl) Nagash the Great (WHFB) Lord Nobunaga (Onimusha 3) Horus or The Emperor (w40k) Godzilla (GOJIRA!) I hate to say it, but... Sephiroth. Or any other FF villain. Raistlin (Dragonlance) Thanos (MC) Holiday Overlord Bun Bun (Sluggy Freelance) Any of the Fantastic Four, except Mr. Fantastic. Unless he's in a lab setting (MC) Any high level D&D character / challenge SHELTEM (M&M 1,2,3,4,5) Lord Xeen (M&M 4) An awful lot of dragons, no matter what mythos.
The iceman from X-Men could probably beat a Jedi... just freeze everything in the room, and the jedi, Jedi's can't melt all the ice with their lightsaber. Although I guess they could control it after being frozen in ice through their Jedi powers, so maybe they'd just shoot it at iceman and kill him, so maybe it'll be a close tie.
Anyway, Jedi are good vs. pinpoint attack, not so great vs diffused and wide area attack. So like earlier mentioned, flamethrowers, explosives, trap doors with rankor, all work decently well.
Flamethrower -> force barrier-type-thing Explosive -> precog + force push or force destruction A trap door was proven to work though, despite the others being better methods of killing anything else made of fleshy stuff.
ilves7: The iceman from X-Men could probably beat a Jedi... just freeze everything in the room, and the jedi, Jedi's can't melt all the ice with their lightsaber. Although I guess they could control it after being frozen in ice through their Jedi powers, so maybe they'd just shoot it at iceman and kill him, so maybe it'll be a close tie.
Anyway, Jedi are good vs. pinpoint attack, not so great vs diffused and wide area attack. So like earlier mentioned, flamethrowers, explosives, trap doors with rankor, all work decently well.
No.
Iceman is, like all Marvel mutants, absurdly powerful. He can create ABSOLUTE ZERO temperature. All he has to do is think, and the Jedi will be dead. His central nervous system transformed from a lump of fatty tissue to a block of solid ice. He's done that (and worse) before, in-canon.
@ Ciarog: Well, I said the list was NOT extensive.
Mothra. Noone can fuck with Mothra. She graces the sky with her presents. Fires down her radioactive beams of death, telekenisis, telepathy, death dusk(?) and then flies off while a city lays burning beneath her (Jedi presents included)
Jedi vs. Simon Cowell... full of heartbreaking and hurtful comment. haha kidding well, i think Jedi vs. Solid Snake. pretty far from the character but heck i love snake.
I am pro Jedi...that is why I started the poll! :) I still think, head to head, a jedi can take anyone down (with exception of course for all of you who decide about taking on Godzilla, the entire borg, the Kraken, etc, etc, etc.) I've been looking over the posts and I think the creativity is amazing and I will agree, there have been some battles that would be a draw, or even a loss, but I still think the majority of a 1v1 battle (within reason and fighting a whole army is not 1v1 nor reasonable) a jedi could win. However, a lot of the points most of you bring up are awesome and I do take those into consideration. I think it's time to break out the old D20s and start rolling up some mock battles :)
The thing to consider here is that I can say at this point that I have no godly idea of how the Force is supposed to work. It seems like it changes constantly.
Yoda assures us that the Dark side is the quick and easy path, but that it is not stronger, yet he couldn't defeat the emperor.
Jedi are supposed to remain calm. Emotion, any emotion, leads to loss of self control and thus the dark side, and yet Vader's redemption is accomplished by destroying his longtime master to save his son. I refuse to believe he did that stone cold.
Yoda had to concentrate pretty hard to lift the X-Wing, and had to pretty much stop fighting to catch the beam that Christopher Lee knocked down in Episode Two, yet in The Force Unleashed, we see an apprentice yanking down a Star Destroyer.
I refuse to acknowledge Force Protect as anything other than a mechanic to allow you to take multiple saber hits in the Jedi Knight games, because I refuse to believe that *the* Master Jedi (Yoda) can't catch a beam without halting combat, but that anyone else can train themselves to block a shotgun blast or an explosion without using a lightsaber.
Lucas needs to decide whether the Light Side is about being Zen or being "good". I'm okay with either idea, but he needs to pick one.
Jedi are powerful, I'm sure. Really, I'd argue that their best ability is their speed. If you can move faster than your opponent can see, then you're going to win. Unless you're somehow so brain damaged that you forget to do that, which (it seems) many Jedi are. I don't think much of their ability of foresight. People speak of it like thy have Muad-Dib type abilities, but Yoda's statement on a very simple question about something that would happen soon was, "Difficult to say, always emotion is the future." I somehow doubt they have a minute to minute screencap knowledge of upcoming events.
I still maintain that things like a firehose, a flamethrower, a shotgun, or a bomb would all be more than adequate to deal with a Jedi, if deployed at the correct time.
As to people takling about the Anime etc, I have this to throw into the ring:
About halfway down, the post titled, "I hope you weren't on the clock." I could try to say it myself, but frankly he makes good points about Cannon vs. "cannon".
TSED: Fine, a large (and still not extensive) list:
Deadpool (Marvel comics) Double H (BG&E) Grey Fox (MGS) Jain Zar (w40k) Kratos (GoW) Tarterus (Halo) Nordom (PS:T, needs proper gear settings) Okku (NWN2: MotB) Pretty much any Space Marine ever (w40k) The Red Terror (w40k) Archaon (WHFB) Pretty much any MMO raid fight Brass (Wildstorm Comics) Any Transformer that doesn't turn into an animal Most transformers that DO turn into animals Most anime / manga characters Dante, Virgil, or any other boss from (Devil May Cry) Coat of Snow (nWoD) Any Tau battlesuit (w40k) Samus, Dark Samus (Metroid) Earthworm Jim Felix (Armour) Galrauch, First of the Chaos Dragons (WHFB) Ghazghkull (w40k) Glory (Buffy the Vampire Slayer) Kent (Armour) K'Z'K, The Vowelless One (Sluggy Freelance) Old One Eye (w40k) Pretty much any MechWarrior Ratchet (Ratchet & Clank) Razorfang (Vor the Maelstrom) Red Stick (nWoD) Any mutant that is in a Marvel comic, depending on the writer Schlock (Schlock Mercenary) She-Hulk Spiderman (both from Marvel Comics) Tha'hon, the Deep (nWoD) The Beast (Kung Fu Hustle) The Raven King (Heavenly Sword), and while we're on that, Nariko could too The Unholy (nWoD) The Vision The Nightbringer Broken Tusk Lu Tze (Discworld) Dr. Who (as is mentioned previously) Bishop (Marvel Comics, just HAD to mention him as he'd stand there and laugh at the Jedis as they can't do anything to him) Any DC Comics character, ever. (Particularly the Kryptons, but whatever) War Machine, Iron Man (Marvel Comics) Galactus (MC) Time Master (Freedom Force) Ultron (MC) Onslaught (MC) Melissan (BG2: ToB) The Ravager Elminster (Forgotten Realms) Apocalypse (MC) Jack the Plaid (Zebra Girl) Nagash the Great (WHFB) Lord Nobunaga (Onimusha 3) Horus or The Emperor (w40k) Godzilla (GOJIRA!) I hate to say it, but... Sephiroth. Or any other FF villain. Raistlin (Dragonlance) Thanos (MC) Holiday Overlord Bun Bun (Sluggy Freelance) Any of the Fantastic Four, except Mr. Fantastic. Unless he's in a lab setting (MC) Any high level D&D character / challenge SHELTEM (M&M 1,2,3,4,5) Lord Xeen (M&M 4) An awful lot of dragons, no matter what mythos.
Is that enough?
eh, a lot of those guys are definite yes's, but a lot aren't, simply because any sufficiently powerful jedi/sith could hold them up in the air paralyzed (or choked for that matter), and throw a lightsaber through their gut. :/ but yeah, a lot of those guys/monsters/robots could do it.
sadly, i've never played d&d, although im definitely not ruling out the possiblity, i wasn't
trying to say that those are the ONLY things that could kill the aforementioned jedi, but just the stuff that i could think of