Since nobody bothered to read the link provided by Darth Mobius, I'm gonna make some copypasta:

Star Wars: Acclamator troop transport

Light guns: 300 million GW (6 megatons per shot, 24 guns, assume 1 shot every 2 seconds for time-averaged power output rather than peak output)

Heavy guns: 2.4 million megatons (200 gigatons per shot from each turret, 12 turrets)

Sublight acceleration: 3500G

Operational range: 250,000 light-years (before refueling)

Shield heat dissipation: 70 trillion GW peak

Reactor power: 200 trillion GW max

Max hyperspace speed: not stated (however, the ability to travel "halfway across the galaxy" in a matter of hours as demonstrated in ANH, TPM, and AOTC requires speeds in the range of 10 million to 100 million times c).

Star Trek: Enterprise-D

Main phasers: 3.6 GW (5.1 MW per emitter, 200 emitters in the main phaser array, 2 full-sized saucer arrays and 3 smaller roughly half-size arrays on the stardrive section, p.123). Note that phasers appear to have a chain-reaction effect so their raw power output may be deceptively low.

Photon torpedoes: 64 megatons max theoretical (based on 1.5 kg antimatter payload, p.129)

Sublight acceleration: 1000G (design goal, p.75)

Operational range: 2750 light-years (7 years at warp 6 before refueling, p.3)

Shield heat dissipation: 3311 GW peak (473 GW per generator x 7 generators, p.138)

Reactor power: ~4 billion GW at max warp 9.6 (scaled from the warp power chart on p.55 which uses units of joules for power; we assume this is a simple mistake). From the chart, their fuel supply for 7 years of warp 6 cruising would be roughly 2E23 J (enough to run an Acclamator's reactor at full power for just 1 second).

Max warp speed: ~2000c (warp 9.6), sustainable 12 hours for a single sprint of roughly 3 light-years. This appears to have increased to roughly 3000c for newer ships such as the Intrepid-class.

As you can see, the officially published figures are massively in favour of the Empire, even if you disregard the fact that an Acclamator is not a particularly powerful warship by Imperial standards (an Imperial Star Destroyer is roughly 10 times larger (by volume) than an Acclamator and presumably 10 times more powerful, even if we disregard the fact that an Acclamator is just a transport).

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html

So - one single star destroyer would probably be able to pwn all of the federation before it is even seen.

Darth Mobius:
I see that no one clicked on the link I provided... Check it out, it details very specifically all of the "CANON" information on weapons and technology.

ok you are missing the point that they are LASERS on the star destroyers that wouldn't even penetrate the navigational shields on the enterprise let alone the main shields

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_of_Star_Trek#Lasers

so while your link IS nice, it's wrong and deeply flawed

phasers are not lasers, they are beyond what a laser can do, the stun setting is setting 1, everything above that is kill or vaporize

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_of_Star_Trek#Phasers

the star destroyer with all it's powerful guns would be giving the enterprise a nice massage but wouldn't be a threat in the least

Hello,Escapists(Escapees,maybe?)

-------Temporary hijack to explain how I got here...Post no. 1------
I was looking through through the web for articles pertaining to the fall of an old game company(Avalon Hill) and discovered this site because of Greg Costikyan's "Death to the Gaming Industry" article.I saw this thread off to one side and I had to add something to your discussion.

-I don't care too much who would win this scrap,but I'd pay big bucks to watch Jar-Jar Binks get the beating he so richly deserves,no matter who administers it.

-Also Data needs to take a long stroll off a short docking ramp.

-And Yoda...that little turd,don't even get me started on that SOB.I've hated him from childhood,ever since he started rooting through Luke's pack in The Empire Strikes Back.

If I have offended any fans of these characters,I apologize...to both of you.
-----Smitty

Khell_Sennet:

-Scale. GO HERE. Click -10x zoom. See the Super Star Destroyer up top? Now scroll down and find how big the Enterprise is compared to it. These are to-scale images produced from extensive geek-search.

It's not the size, mate. It's how you use it. Star Wars proved that when an UNTRAINED X-Wing pilot destroyed the DeathStar in ONE HIT. Also, who mentioned Babylon 5? I know it was on the chart but this is Star we're talking about, not Babyl.

Smitty of the Tolchocks:
Hello,Escapists(Escapees,maybe?)

-------Temporary hijack to explain how I got here...Post no. 1------
I was looking through through the web for articles pertaining to the fall of an old game company(Avalon Hill) and discovered this site because of Greg Costikyan's "Death to the Gaming Industry" article.I saw this thread off to one side and I had to add something to your discussion.

-I don't care too much who would win this scrap,but I'd pay big bucks to watch Jar-Jar Binks get the beating he so richly deserves,no matter who administers it.

-Also Data needs to take a long stroll off a short docking ramp.

-And Yoda...that little turd,don't even get me started on that SOB.I've hated him from childhood,ever since he started rooting through Luke's pack in The Empire Strikes Back.

If I have offended any fans of these characters,I apologize...to both of you.
-----Smitty

Data died. :( Luckily, they had his memory save and uploaded him into B-4 (Lore much?)
And I agree, YODA YOU LITTLE SHIT GET YOUR OWN PACK! /Angry

theres also the problem that ST is suppose to be based on real human achievement over the next few centuries where as SW is totally made up.

..and you've got to look at the time factor. in ST theres only been space travel for a couple of centuries, whereas in SW its much more developed.

cleverlymadeup:

ok you are missing the point that they are LASERS on the star destroyers that wouldn't even penetrate the navigational shields on the enterprise let alone the main shields

the star destroyer with all it's powerful guns would be giving the enterprise a nice massage but wouldn't be a threat in the least

*wheeze* Ramming Speed, Admiral.
Are you sure Lord Vader?
I have studied their reactors. Were one to detonate on the front of the deflektors, they wouldn't even drop for a second.*wheeze* Especially since their Commander is now dead.
Right away, Lord Vader.

ok you are missing the point that they are LASERS on the star destroyers that wouldn't even penetrate the navigational shields on the enterprise let alone the main shields

WHY wouldn't it penetrate the navigational shields on the enterprise?
You offer a link but obviously it cannot be meant as evidence since it only offers an account of "one instance, [where]the ship-mounted lasers of two spacecraft were incapable of overcoming the navigational shields of the USS Enterprise-D."

Obviously the turbolasers of Star Wars are much, much more powerful than the ST universe weapons, as can be seen in the link provided chart. In any case they could just fire their torpedoes if, somehow, the shields were immune to turbolasers.

Glad that someone noticed the CANON OUTPUT for each weapons discharge. The Star Wars lasers are what, over 100 Million times more powerful than phasers? So yeah, it would be a heavy route, based on the CANON outputs (Canon is based on what Gene Rodenberry or George Lucas declare is the official output, so you can't start making up numbers... Besides, give me a cutting laser and a fast enough ship, I will just shoot the Enterprise with said cutting laser until it's shields go down, while running JUST out of range of their phasers.)

Oh yeah, and notice the range between the ships fighting... For Star Wars lasers to be effective at 20,000 Kilometers, they would have to be a hell of a lot more powerful than phasers which only reach 10 kilometers...

If you weren't to count Doctor Who (see my Icon), Star Wars any day but if you were to count Doctor Who You would have to look at Civilization Charting Timelords (despite being Extinct) out power both.
Oh yeah it also says that Galatic Federation (star trek) is Type 2, while the Empire And the Republic (star wars) are Type 3.

Trek Wars Episode(xy): Futile Resistance-(part one)

A long time ago in a galaxy far,far away,and also a little in the future and relatively nearby...Two vastly powerful fictional millieu collide to settle it once and for all.With the hearts and minds* of millions...er thousands of nerds hanging in the balance,each fleet draws nearer to the other and the final,ultimate battle for Stupremecy begins.

Our story begins with the two remaining ships(yes, you missed the battle--low budget indeed),the Imperial Executor,and the Federation starship Enterprise,both badly damaged and in danger of exploding,low on shields and energy weapons,life support running...you know the drill...

-to be continued.

*not to mention the literal lives of a few

I'd say in terms of overal coolness and storytelling, epic plot etc--Star Wars. In terms of interpretation value, academic approach, and what science fiction is really about--Star Trek.

Star Trek for the fact that Star Trek has Q.

Should we switch over to Q vs. the Force now? :)

(And Q would have a LOT more fun with Luke than Picard)

Trek Wars Episode(::(- "Cue the Violins"

On the deck of U.S.S. 1701 things were looking grim.Picard was into his third bottle and ol' Jim was latched on to his fourth girl.Spock and The Android bickered incessantly,comparing notes and constantly belittling one another,each trying to pin the blame for the catastrophe on the other cast.

To say that the situation on the Imperial Dreadnought was under control would be a vast overstatement if one considered the forces still in play,who were gathered upon the bridge.The Lucas Gang's best covert operatives,Luke and Leia, had died of food poisoning after eating some spoiled ewok meat,and Chewie was killed by a rival pimp.

To be continued 11apr08

i would have said star wars hands down about 12 years ago but george decided to give it up the butt to all of his fans with the cg crap and turning one of the most bad ass villains of all time into a whiny bitch. with talk of the new film being nothing but cg i say "so how is it different from the last 3?"

ok, you CANNOT just discount Q. regardless of whether he wishes to choose sides or not, his universe is in danger and like any caring entity he will defend it. Most of Q's motivations, other than curiosity, have been for the good of the universe. I've been polite up until now, but you know what? i'm throwing off my gloves, leaving my self respect in the box it came in and duking this fucker out.

First, ST has vastly superior technology. cloaked soldiers, no problem, cloaked ships, no problem. Teleporters, Matter rearrangers, sheilds, phasors and warp drive, all which work reliably on every equipped ship, and nearly every ship is equipped. compare that to how many ships the empire and alliance have capable of that. I mean outside of the Falcon and the X wing attachment, how many ships have we seen hit hyperspace? and even then the Falcon nearly always breaks down.

2, Races. as stated earlier, you cannot discount Q while you claim that both the empire and the rebels AND the light side and the dark side of the force are working together. You also cannot discount the borg with their adaptive properties (one jedi assimilated and all power of the force is equalled), the Vulcans with their infallable logic and planning ability (once they see what the force is capable of, they will use that in strategy), the sheer suicidal maniacy of the Klingons and, my personal favorite, the Horta, who just don't die. Combine all this with the medical advancements in 24th century "hypospray" and lets face it, even if you knock one down, give us a few hours and we'll be back

three: stratigies already in place like the Picard Manuver and other sanctioned/unsanctioned military manuvers, unlike anything SW has seen with its pretty much "drive in and fire" strategies, would not only confuse and disable them and wipe them out.

so the superior technology, strategy and races all add up to a victory for the treks

a lot, but that's not the point, and if you wanna see what effect star trek has had on pop culture, go watch Trekkers

strategy is cunningly hidden from your argument, i'm going to take that as a point. ditto the lack of counter argument for the races and their various attributes, other than the fact that "we can't use Q because he would just take the opportunity to leave", perhaps he would, but i bet you the first thing he would do over there would be to strip the jedi of the powers.

yeah, um, dont think i've ever seen an imperial ship go into hyperspace. i'm happy to be wrong about it, if you could provide an example, the other thing about this is there are established laws about Warp which explain how fast each speed is and the hypothetical threshold of it, whereas hyperdrive seems very "how long is a piece of string" about it's capabilites and therefore unpredictable, and unsafe.

finally, I agree this argument is stupid. its like metallica vs megadeth. fanboys come out of the woodwork and praise the virtues of each while disparaging the other. while i respect star wars for all it did for sci fi, star trek did it first, it did it better, it did it more often and it did it on a tighter budget. therefore Admiral Arkbar will always take second to Admiral Roddenberry

I see the scale like this:

Babylon 5 <(owned by)< Star Trek <(owned by)< Star Wars.

Why? Why! Because in terms of how thought-out and adult the universe is, the scale is like this:

Babylon 5 >(owns)> Star Trek >(owns)> Star Wars

Of course Star Wars wins, it has no internal structure of logic, it's one big loony adventure that whilst fun is fundamentally flawed. Any universe that supports the logic that massive 15 km long ships get made because they had false names on the budget listing is kind-of... y'know? How do they pay the upkeep? Babylon 5 had to sell action figures aboard their own ship.

Star Trek fans, please, let's just forget about all this - yes, Star Wars wins, but in the same way that the stronger spotty football-playing jerk always does. After that he'll be eating pizza on the coach and we'll be running the country.

durge:
I am posting in an attempt to end this bickering once and for all. Star Wars would win hands down. Now for a closer look.

Lasers vs Phasers:
Some people say that lasers are weak compared to phasers, but here's the trick, phasers are lasers. Phasers a light projected in a certain frequency that cause atoms to lose their bonds and break apart causing the targeted object to dissipate into gas, but remember that word? "Light." By definition, a laser is a stream of concentrated light of a certain frequency. Having said this, Star Trek's phasers are just lasers. And if I look at this site: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html , it clearly shows that the Star Wars lasers have thousands-millions times the output than the Star Trek phasers.

Q vs The Force

Q does not chose sides, he's a giant evil manipulative blue head with somewhat godlike (actually more demi-godlike) powers and abilities. Not to mention the fact that he is mischievous, evil, manipulative, and cruel. He would not chose sides. If Q was in this conflict, he would try to toy with and destroy both sides forcing Star Trek and Star Wars to come to a temporary truce. Q cannot be controlled and he does not chose sides. The Force; however, can be wielded by any force adept (there are approximately 6,000+ force adepts in the Sith Training Academies). The Force can be controlled at will and used for unlimited purposes. For instance: A Star Destroyer with a Dark Force Adept flies towards a federation vessel and fires a volley of turbolaser fire. In retaliation, the federation vessel launches torpedoes at the Star Destroyer as more federation ships arrive. The Dark Force Adept on board the Star Destroyer uses the Force to redirect the torpedoes and send them flying towards the other Federation ships. The evil force dude then uses the force to tear the original federation ship into pieces and sends a piece flying towards each of the other federation ships... Another instance: Federation soldiers kill the squads of storm troopers accompanying Darth Sideous. Darth Sideous then uses the Force to break apart the atomic bonds of all the federation soldiers and re-arranges their atoms to create a squad of fully armed and loaded Dark Trooper Phase 3's. Sideous then uses the atoms in the ground and the air to create 4 elite squads of nova troopers... What I'm trying to get at is that there is only one Q and he cannot be controlled, he is evil, manipulative, and cruel minded. The Force can be controlled by any of the hundreds of thousands Force Adepts in the Star Wars Galaxy.

Spaceships

Let's face it, there's nothing in the Star Trek universe that comes close to 1500 Super Star Destroyers, 2 Eclipses, 1 sovereign, a Death Star, Galaxy guns, World Devastators, or anything else really.

Cloaking and Stealth

Both Star Trek and Star Wars have cloaking devices, but Star Wars cloaking is much more advanced. Star Wars has cloaked soldiers (nova troopers, noghri assassins, spies), cloaked vehicles, cloaked fighters (tie phantoms), and even cloaked super battle cruisers (Terror Class Super Star Destroyer). The Terror Class Super Star Destroyer is over 15,000 km long, has over 1000 turbolasers, 1000 missile launchers, 1000 ion batteries, and did I mention it can become invisible? Yea, a Super Star Destroyer 15,000 km long that's invisible. Beat that Star Trek. Seriously.

FTLT (Faster Than Light Travel)

It takes a federation ship around seven years to make it across one quadrant of one quadrant of the galaxy (with the help of alien races and technology, super weapons, and Q). It takes any Star Wars ship (fighters, frigates, transports, yachts, cruisers, etc...) around 4-12 hours.

Bad Stormtrooper aim:

Also, the only reason that the Stormtroopers in Star Wars had bad aim was because it was scripted. George Lucas wanted a story in which a small rebellion overcomes a massive military dictatorship of pure evil. The only way to do this is to give the bad guys really bad aim. Of course, George Lucas learned this was stupid so he fixed it in the recent video games. If you'll see the games, short films, episodes, comics, etc... The stormtroopers act like perfectly trained intelligent soldiers. You cannot say that the Stormtroopers have terrible aim. IT WAS SCRIPTED.

Oh, and this dude is freaking awesome http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/contributor/1800017101/bio
George Lucas is amazing (and he's actually starting to make good video games).

Nuff said

And the only reason Star Wars has all this uber powerful stuff is because its scripted. The designers basically said "we'll call the guns lasers and their power out out is... a high number!" (Star Trek tried for realism, hence less powerful, more political Sci-Fi)
Yes a war between the Federation and the Empire would be won by the Empire... we all get this I think. But why couldn't we have a discussion on the merits of the different fictions? Or something better than a Fanboy shout fest about who's got the coolest ray-gun.

Jeroen Stout:
I see the scale like this:

Babylon 5 <(owned by)< Star Trek <(owned by)< Star Wars.

Why? Why! Because in terms of how thought-out and adult the universe is, the scale is like this:

Babylon 5 >(owns)> Star Trek >(owns)> Star Wars

Of course Star Wars wins, it has no internal structure of logic, it's one big loony adventure that whilst fun is fundamentally flawed. Any universe that supports the logic that massive 15 km long ships get made because they had false names on the budget listing is kind-of... y'know? How do they pay the upkeep? Babylon 5 had to sell action figures aboard their own ship.

Star Trek fans, please, let's just forget about all this - yes, Star Wars wins, but in the same way that the stronger spotty football-playing jerk always does. After that he'll be eating pizza on the coach and we'll be running the country.

Nice.

yeah, um, dont think i've ever seen an imperial ship go into hyperspace. i'm happy to be wrong about it, if you could provide an example,

How, precisely, do you suggest that the ships travel from one star to another without hyperspace? Not to mention that hyperspace is mentioned time and time again in the series, books and comics.

three: stratigies already in place like the Picard Manuver and other sanctioned/unsanctioned military manuvers, unlike anything SW has seen with its pretty much "drive in and fire" strategies, would not only confuse and disable them and wipe them out.

Uhm. No ship in ST has enough firepower to scratch the surface of a SW ship so the Picard maneuver won't help them alot.

And the only reason Star Wars has all this uber powerful stuff is because its scripted. The designers basically said "we'll call the guns lasers and their power out out is... a high number!"

This is true - for all sci-fi other than maybe some Asimov stories.

(Star Trek tried for realism, hence less powerful, more political Sci-Fi)

This is complete rubbish.

H0ncho:

[quote](Star Trek tried for realism, hence less powerful, more political Sci-Fi)

This is complete rubbish.

Put your handbag down. It's a debate, were not shouting down each-others arguments. I believe Star Trek tried for a more realistic approach, hence why it's Warp theory etc is actually explainable if unachievable today (hence Sci-Fi). And since Gene Roddenberry's attitudes and beliefs are reflected in the message of the original ST, I find it to be more about peace keeping and politics than SW (though obviously B5 wins that genre).

So I'd have to say your point was complete rubbish. Since it wasn't one without the explanation included.

Star Wars vs Star Trek in Five Minutes:
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html

1. lightsabers kick phasers
2. rhodians kick redshirts (bonus points if you get the reference)
3. mandalorians kick mangaloids
4. the force kicks the prime directive
5. obi wan kicks spock, even with the death grip.
6. the Fett-man kicks all