-Seraph-:
yes...yes they can, especially the Ori (evil counterparts). Even Anubis would if he wasn't stuck half way.

Can a single one commit a war crime by telepathically turning off everyone's light switch within a miles long radius?

Explain what these things are.

The Ascended are essentially beings no short of being God. Think of Q from star Treck, that Ascended are pretty much the same to an extent.

Haliwali:
Nerdiest answer ever spoken:
Lightsabers deflect anything but other lightsabers and Cortosis.

And phasers set on wide beam. And explosives. And shotguns. And bullets from that DS9 gun that uses a transporter to materialize the bullet almost inside the target (goes through walls, etc.).

Actually... That is what the Force is for. Force Shield stops bullets, shotgun blasts, etc...

Ok, the Star Wars universe has lightsabers and the force, yes. However if the Q got involved then their lightsabers would most likely be turned into a comical cigar, and their force powers changed into being able to make baloon animals. Also the Empire vs all the races and their ships of trek? Could someone do some kinda size comparison for that?
Also technically the Star Trek universe is OUR universe, in OUR galaxy :) so perhaps Doc Who could turn up? And everytime he turns up he runs about a bit, jumps on some furniture and then makes some sort of amazing contraption to save the day. Thats if we are counting him aswel.
So far Star Trek is winning (mainly because of Q, if he/they get involved) but for old times sake i still love star wars....or star trek..... i guess for sheer power trek wins at the moment...

you can tell by me picture buyo.

Haliwali:
Star Wars. Any army, any ship, any environment. Let's compare the warrior races, shall we?
Mandolorians would RAPE Klingons, no question.

Mandolorians - don't know much about them. But there are ways of dealing with those - Jem'Hadar. Bred in a few days, built-in cloaking devices, ready to fight in 3 days. Not to mention advanced technology. Orbital weapons systems would take care of those.

Haliwali:
They have better ship and weapons, better everything.

ROFL. Dude, this is the wrong area for this. They have some weapons that are more powerful, but TLs speed is pathetic. They are not even close to light speed. Whereas ST phasers are designed for battles at distances of light seconds.

Scenario: an SSD fights a Galaxy-class ST ship. SSD enters the system. ST ship enters the system, approaches to within 1 light second of the SSD. Both ships fire weapons. Phasers and photon torpedoes reach SSD in 1-5 seconds. SSD turbolasers reach the ST ship's last known location in lets say 8.3 hours (if we are generous and say that they travel at 10 km/s).

Factoring in maneuverability, it is obvious which weapons hit whom. The only thing that is better in SW is the hyperdrive. And there are still drives in the ST universe far, far, far superior to it.

Haliwali:
And Jedi rape Mandos, so by transitive property of rape Jedi rape Klingons.

Riight. And the Borg assimilate the galaxy in a week. Jedi cannot be even classified as telepaths, unlike dozens of races in the ST universe.

-Seraph-:
The Ascended are essentially beings no short of being God. Think of Q from star Treck, that Ascended are pretty much the same to an extent.

Nevermind short of, they are Gods it's just that only half of them are man enough to admit it.

jabrwock:
*dons flame-retardant pants*
If we assume that SW's "lasers" are equivalent to ST's "phasers" (since both are described as not being lasers, but rather highly compressed, focused high-energy particle beams...)

Not quite. Phasers have an extra energy component that allows them to create that "vaporization" effect. Plus the speed of the beam is far superior to turbolasers. Pretty much light speed vs. about 10 km/s? A lot less in most cases - less than 1, usually.

jabrwock:
then really the only ships the Empire will have trouble with are the Borg's (and the Prometheus prototype). But the Borg's ability does not extend to proton torpedoes, so even a Star Destroyer can take on a Borg cube.

The Borg ability does not extend to proton torpedoes because they have not encountered proton torpedoes. A few hits and they will be fine. They will adapt - that's what they do. That's all they do. I give the SW galaxy a week or two. Depends on how much the Borg want to push it, but their numbers can easily grow at a geometric progression.

Darth Mobius:
Actually... That is what the Force is for. Force Shield stops bullets, shotgun blasts, etc...

Do they stop bullets that materialize inside of the shields (DS9 episode)? Do they stop pure energy weapons without a material component? Do they stop somebody from just beaming the Jedi into space?

TheGhostOfSin:

-Seraph-:
The Ascended are essentially beings no short of being God. Think of Q from star Treck, that Ascended are pretty much the same to an extent.

Nevermind short of, they are Gods it's just that only half of them are man enough to admit it.

Gods don't count. They're Gods. They don't have to work for power, they are born with it. That's racial elitism, and I won't stand for it.

PurpleRain:
What does star trek even have. I haven't watched any of the series but as far as I can see, it's only one ship and they have laser guns. Star Wars as Jedi, the force, lightsabers, rancor, a Death Star and stormtroopers.

ST species as far beyond humans as humans are beyond mushrooms. Gods basically. Hell, they have nukes - I've yet to see any weapon in SW between an 120mm cannon and the superlaser.

Spinwhiz:
As for the reason I started the thread, I was actually looking for some Trekies (sp?) to chime in and give me their view.

Be careful what you wish for. Spent years in alt.startrek.vs.starwars. I have both ST technical manuals and can quote the number of joules in a kiloton (4.184*10^12) and the theoretical number of megatons that can be delivered by a photon torpedo (1.5 kg of antimatter => approximately 64.5 MT).

Ares Tyr:

TheGhostOfSin:

-Seraph-:
The Ascended are essentially beings no short of being God. Think of Q from star Treck, that Ascended are pretty much the same to an extent.

Nevermind short of, they are Gods it's just that only half of them are man enough to admit it.

Gods don't count. They're Gods. They don't have to work for power, they are born with it. That's racial elitism, and I won't stand for it.

They weren't born with power, they gained it through natural means that all organic life could aswell.

TheGhostOfSin:
Stargate beats both...
Seriously, instant travel to other planets?
Even for ships (supergate)
Why is every one here only doing one group vs. another when its suppost to be whole universes?

Tau'ri, Jaffa, Goa'uld, Tok'ra, Wraith, Kull Wariors, the Ori army, the Ori themselves, Ancients and Lanteans (yes they are different) would beat any-one without much trouble.

Besides any universe can be beaten by a single word...

Replicators.

Don't forget the Asgard. But I agree, Stargate more or less wins by default for the number of God-like beings that there are. However to stick within the topic at hand, I have to go with Star Wars.

Ah hell, let's just make it a free-for-all, shall we?

qbert4ever:
Don't forget the Asgard. But I agree, Stargate more or less wins by default for the number of God-like beings that there are. However to stick within the topic at hand, I have to go with Star Wars.

Ah hell, let's just make it a free-for-all, shall we?

And the Nox and Furlings...

Khell_Sennet:
And I still back Bab5 because they have the elder races.

And Star Trek doesn't? Even if we ignore Q there are dozens that we've seen. "To the N'th Degree" aliens that advanced Barclay's brain to super-genius. Wormhole aliens that live outside of time. Dinosaur aliens from Voyager - does 65 million years count as elder? Those guys from Enterprise that pulled everybody's strings. Hell - Borg.

Ares Tyr:

TheGhostOfSin:

-Seraph-:
The Ascended are essentially beings no short of being God. Think of Q from star Treck, that Ascended are pretty much the same to an extent.

Nevermind short of, they are Gods it's just that only half of them are man enough to admit it.

Gods don't count. They're Gods. They don't have to work for power, they are born with it. That's racial elitism, and I won't stand for it.

They were originally organic beings but evolved to the point where they were able to trans mutate themselves into an energy state. Achieving the highest level of evolution hence giving them god like powers. The only things they have not been known to be able to do are time manipulation, and randomly creating life, everything else is fair game with them.

jabrwock:

Elim Garak:
Not to mention the Borg - they alone could take down the SW universe.

How do Borg shields react to ion cannons? (ionized particle beams?)

The same way they react to all other stuff - they adapt. Ions are really easy to deal with, actually. Magnetic fields. For traveling at FTL through normal space you need to deal with ionized particles all the time. Plus the ST shields don't seem to be affected by ionization.

The problem with these types of threads is that usually both sides are ignorant of the other, except for a few, but those few waste their time arguing with the ignorant ones.

I know both the Star Trek and Star Wars universes (except for the expanded universe for both. I've seen most of The Original Series and up to near the end of Season 3 of DS9, and the good movies so I'm not about to start the books, but in the Star Wars universe, they clone the dead Darth Maul and then pit him against Darth Vader. Yea...), but I don't know about Doctor Who, Babylon 5 (unfortunately, I heard it was quite good), and Star Gate (which I've seen a few episodes of, they may have just been bad episodes, but I thought they were meh.).

Also, a quick google search of Replicators (the evil Stargate guys, not the stuff that makes food and stuff in Star Trek :P), and they sound a lot like the Borg. And those God people sound a lot like the Q. And this is from an ignorant outsider's stand point, but Star Trek came first, and um. Maybe great minds think alike?

star wars would win, star trek doesnt have any freaking light sabers, and since star wars has cloning technology, and from what i can remember star trek did not? then i think that star wars would out number them, and they have better guns for sure

Northover32:
star wars would win, star trek doesnt have any freaking light sabers, and since star wars has cloning technology, and from what i can remember star trek did not? then i think that star wars would out number them, and they have better guns for sure

Star Trek did have something close to cloning. Khan was genetically manipulated along with other characters throughout the star trek mythos. Genetics of that sort are banned in the star trek universe due to the repercussions they have had due the that sort of stuff.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Clone

Um yea, you can clone in Star Trek.

Northover32:
star wars would win, star trek doesnt have any freaking light sabers, and since star wars has cloning technology, and from what i can remember star trek did not? then i think that star wars would out number them, and they have better guns for sure

The lightsaber = win arguments make this seem more like a popularity contest than an actual argument.

Star wars=han solo=Harison Ford=win... but its a tough choice, william shatner is still pretty cool.

Darth Mobius:
Three things... Star Wars Ships outmass Star Trek ships in every class.

So do garbage scows vs. torpedo boats. Mass doesn't mean much - level and type of technology does.

Darth Mobius:
Star Trek includes their fighters as Capital ships... I would say a Super Star Destroyer with a full compliment of X-wings (144 plus over 6 squadrons of bombers) would decimate 3/4 of the federation before being attrited to death.

Not so much. SW ship shields are rather pathetic - they rely on weight of metal for protection. In the Thrawn trilogy an SD had huge trouble even being close to a star. ST ships have shields that allow them to enter the corona of a star. And their hulls are durable enough to survive 12000 degree temperatures (canon).

Darth Mobius:
Of course, when you concider the fact that the Empire and New Republic fielded over 1500 Star Destroyers, with a complement of 8 total squadrons, the Federatin starts taking massive damage quickly... StarDestroyer.net did a fan fic where they objectively compared weapons...

LOL, those idiots? Don't get me started. The only thing that the Empire would be better at is strategically, due to their faster hyperdrive. And that is only against the Federation - if you include one of dozens of more powerful races, it would all be over for the Imps.

Darth Mobius:
Photon Torpedoes are simply balls of light similar to a phaser

Eeeegh. Wrong. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Proton_torpedo

Darth Mobius:
whereas a proton torpedo IS a Nuclear Weapon, estimated in the 50 KT range... I figure a salvo of 24 from ONE squadron of x-wings would pretty much ruin the Enterprise.

How do you figure that? We have no numbers (hard or otherwise) on the yield of a proton torpedo. Not to mention that since any gangster can obtain proton torpedoes in the SW universe, and yet most cities are not nuclear holes in the ground (plus dozens of examples from the books - let me know if you want page numbers) they don't appear to be even in the kiloton range.

Darth Mobius:
Then we have the Eclipse I and II Star Destroyers, over 20 KM long, each, and each equipped with a superlaser capable of cracking a planet's crust, or target ships as small as large freighters. The Borg would be obliterated by continued blasts from it.

Again, not so much. Scenario - one of these SSDs enters encounters a Borg cube. Destroys it in one shot. An hour later, all contact with one deck is lost. Two hours later, power fluctuations are all over the place. 1 day later - meet an all new, improved Borg SSD. Although they would probably redesign it eventually - cut it up into tactical cubes.

You do know that the Borg have tactical battle cubes, right? What we've seen so far are basically Borg minivans.

Darth Mobius:
There is no adaptation for surviving a blast that powerful. Star Wars would win by default of faster than light travel, allowing them to harass a planet for hours before a Federation ship leaving from the same location could arrive.

I will give you this one. SW does have superior FTL drive - but only compared to the Feds (and many other races). There are some that are much better. Borg have transwarp conduits, for example - you can go across the galaxy in minutes.

Darth Mobius:
But, The Executor was escorted by no less than 20 Star Destroyers and 1000s of TIE fighters... Bye-bye Federation.

Standard weapon arrays for Star Wars ships:

Executor Class Star Destroyer:

Over 1000 Turbolaser Batteries
Over 1000 Ion Cannon Batteries
Over 1000 Missile and Torpedo Tubes

Average weapon speed - less than 1 km/s. ST average weapon speed? Slightly below light speed for phasers, I think about 10-50% light speed for photon torpedoes. Even if we accept the psychotic power values that Curtis Saxton quotes in his books (despite all the evidence to the contrary) that is still not a sure win, just because of the tactical effectiveness of the weapons.

Darth Mobius:
3 Shield Generators capable of withstanding over 140 Proton torpedo impacts before failing

Which is equivalent to what? 1 kiloton alltogether? Two?

Can anything in the Federation arsenal even come close to a Star Destroyer, much less a Super Star Destroyer?

Yup. Soliton wave - capable of destroying planets. Protomatter devices - capable of igniting supernovas. FTL supernovas. Tactical transporter uses. Quantum torpedoes. Omega molecules, although they are outlawed. Cloaking, self-replicating mines.

Darth Mobius:
Cloaking technology... Not only does Star Wars have it, they have a way to neutralize it. Have fun with that...

Ah, and they used it like once. Only one type. In a specialized ship. In ST there are at least 2-3 different TYPES of cloaking technologies. SW has 1st generation cloaks. ST has 4th - 5th.

Darth Mobius:
Crystal Grav-field trap detects the artificial gravity required to allow people to remain in place on a ship to locate it despite the cloaking field.

Do they detect subspace fields? Can they detect a ship that is hiding INSIDE of a ship - or a planet? What is their range - a few light seconds at best? What about if the gravity is off? What about if the ship is partially in its own bubble of subspace, out of phase with the universe?

Darth Mobius:
Also, at the +35 year point, lasers are 50% more powerful than they were at the Battle of Yavin.

SW is working on improving their technology - but they have not made any fundamental breakthroughs in at least a hundred years. Hundreds, if you believe the books. The kind of breakthroughs that appear in ST every day.

I blame the Jedi. All that mystical hocus pocus is no match for a good nuke. Or nanoprobes. Or transporters. Or phasers set to wide beam. Etc.

The_root_of_all_evil:

ReepNeep:
Eh? Why the hell are people saying that tech in 'wars is more advanced that it is in 'trek?

Because Wars had that level of tech a millenia ago. Trek still doesn't have cloning.

Teleporters are like toys against the might of the Dark Side.

Ah, so they regressed because of pathetic religious ideas? Is that why all their droids look like tin cans? Why they don't use transporters? Or replicators? Or nanotechnology? Or decent computer systems? Or biotechnology? Or decent holograms?

Elim Garak:
SNIP
capable of igniting supernovas...

Thats the most bullshit thing I've ever heard.

-Seraph-:

Ares Tyr:

TheGhostOfSin:

-Seraph-:
The Ascended are essentially beings no short of being God. Think of Q from star Treck, that Ascended are pretty much the same to an extent.

Nevermind short of, they are Gods it's just that only half of them are man enough to admit it.

Gods don't count. They're Gods. They don't have to work for power, they are born with it. That's racial elitism, and I won't stand for it.

They were originally organic beings but evolved to the point where they were able to trans mutate themselves into an energy state. Achieving the highest level of evolution hence giving them god like powers. The only things they have not been known to be able to do are time manipulation, and randomly creating life, everything else is fair game with them.

I'm gonna sing the "Doesn't count" song to the tune of "Dancing in the Rain" still.

The_root_of_all_evil:

All the borg would have to do is capture one empire ship and they'd have most of the information to counter it.

But they can't. See Deflectors.

What about deflectors? Borg can transport through shields. Plus the SW shields would have to have openings by their very nature - they still use reaction drives.

The_root_of_all_evil:
Kirk : "Get...me...the Empire.........onscreennowSulu."
Darth: *wheeze* "So, we meet again."
Kirk : "Listen...you......evilimperial...commander, I demand...*choke**cough* World....fading...breath...stopping..."
Darth : "Apology accepted, Admiral Kirk."

Tie Fighter just pwned the Enterprise.

Channel closed, ship cloaked, TIE fighter destroyed. One man is not a ship.

Also, the reason that is isn't Star Trek vs Star Wars vs Stargate is that Stargate and Star Trek both have a god race.

H0ncho:
Since nobody bothered to read the link provided by Darth Mobius, I'm gonna make some copypasta:

[snip]
So - one single star destroyer would probably be able to pwn all of the federation before it is even seen.

That's Curtis Saxton. The guy doesn't know what he is talking about - he is taking the maximum official examples, and ignores the canon examples of the opposite. Canon beats official every time.

Furthermore, his numbers do not take into account the logical impossibilities of these statements. If any thug could get a multi-megaton nuke, why aren't there more radioactive craters all over the place? Why are so many weapons examples so pathetic?