The American film industry is actually a self-regulated one, and police are hired to stand-in at theater ticket counters for leverage. You should take a look at this policy declaration from the National Association of Theater Owners, who are the operators of theater franchises like National Amusements and AMC.
Likewise, the video game industry must also be self-regulated, but the ESRB has only been in operation since 1994 - and thus their influence is still growing; this is compared to the MPAA which has been rating movies for well over 30 years. This is why state and federal governments have stepped in to help regulate the industry - because the ESRB is insufficient.
Despite all of this, I still believe that the ESRB does an excellent job of providing fair ratings for games which PARENTS of legal minors can use to make decisions. What I am saying is if the parents did a good job regulating their children in the first place, then the government would not have stepped in. .................................................................................. VikingRhetoric:
I have a feeling that if people like this get their way, it wont be too long before we have a Happy Days version of socialism.
Regulating what you think, say, do, and feel.Making sure everyone is equal(I.E. getting functional people to drop down to the dregs level, because they're victims, and we shouldn't force them to achieve things), stupid and complacent.
And I think the saddest part of that is we are quite close to that already.
Now, onto the original point(or part of it anyway), I don't watch the news. At all. For this particular reason.
Modern media(I refuse to call that tripe news) is focused solely on shock, celebrity worship and keeping us stupid.Your average political pundit is nothing more than a retard* in a suit.Cnn and the like have a far left slant, and fox has a far right slant.
Of course it's not all political/attacking random group horseshit.There is nothing I love more than turning on any news network, and hearing about Anna nicole smith, or the fact that Britney spears is a terrible mother.I can't imagine why the rest of the world hates america, when this is what they have to go by.
"Big Brother" is watching whether it's broadcast on our sensationalist news networks or not! And as far as the slant goes - you better have a bias for whoever signs your checks! And by "you" I mean "them."
I require further iteration on the "Happy Days Socialism" - the Fonze says "Heyyy!"
I made up this kind of socialism! It's called "復興中華!!復興中華 Socialism" Yaaaay! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JST-TlOTRec&feature=related ......................................................................................... VikingRhetoric:
Happy days = watered down version of America, where everyone gets along, almost as if forced.
I figure any form of socialism that takes place in america will have to be decidedly american in nature, however, it will remove most of what makes america america.While it wont be as bad as, say, russias decent into a third world hellhole, it will still take this nation into direction that I detest vehemently. ............................................................................................ i_am_undead:
That is the most generalized statement I have ever read. You lost me in the dark abyss that is "Happy Days" rhetoric. What exactly is America all about? Wait, I'll start a forum and we'll go on this journey together! It'll be fun! Make sure to go and post! I'll title it "American Socialism, What's It All About?: A Fireside forum with i_am_undead and VikingRhetoric!" I'll see you there! AwaaYYYY! ............................................................................................
And here we are! Open the floodgates of empty rhetoric! This is the new "Federalist Papers," only this is about the so-called "Happy Days Socialism!"
What is that anyhow, and more importantly, what is America all about?
I would say America is mostly about pick-up trucks and funny videos about shots to the groin and old people falling off docks.
What do you think America is all about? And what is the "vehemently detested" direction all about? Are they going to take away my "shot to the groin" funny videos?
Silly Larenxis. Everyone knows that socialism = evil. It has nothing to do with helping those who are unable to help themselves, nothing to do with civil society, nothing to do with mutual sympathy and support. It's just plain evil. End of story. This is why there are no living socialists anywhere in elected office.
The right wing in America, which is a large group, react to anything liberal by calling it socialism. Like when universal health care was getting some attention because it may be reintroduced the right wing instantly classed that as socialism to scare the people and keep their profits.
Fascism A political regime based on strong centralized government, suppressing through violence any criticism or opposition of the regime, and exalting nation, state, or religion above the individual.
Liberalism A political movement founded on the autonomy and personal freedom of the individual, progress and reform, and government by law with the consent of the governed.
Socialism Any of various political philosophies that support social and economic equality, collective decision-making and public control of productive capital and natural resources, as advocated by socialists.
(Source: Wiktionary.org)
Fascism = Control by authority Liberalism = Personal freedom Socialism = Equality
(Source: Scubamike1978)
Personally I'd prefer an even mix of the three, Personal freedom unless detrimental to others with the control decided by equal citizens. Guess that's democracy.
Any why do dictatorships tend to call themselves "The Democratic Republic of ..." when they are neither democratic or representative of the people.
Socialisim is great in theory. However, in practice it simply dosen't work because human beings by nature always want a little bit more than the guy next door, this is particularly true of America, and if we all have the same that's not a possibility. This is where Democracy steps in. Democracy gives people an oppertunity to have their say by voting but it also allows people to have more that the guy next door if they want it enough to earn it. Thus giving everyone something to aspire to.
What I am saying is if the parents did a good job regulating their children in the first place, then the government would not have stepped in.
First, who said parents *weren't* doing a good job regulating their children in the first place? These proposed laws are, in my opinion, not necessary to protect children and are just a way of imposing a certain morality on others.
Second, I don't understand what any of this has to do with socialism. You don't need 'socialism' to explain why a government is involving itself in the moral affairs of its citizens. That's been done plenty of times in capitalist countries.
Razzle Bathbone: Silly Larenxis. Everyone knows that socialism = evil. It has nothing to do with helping those who are unable to help themselves, nothing to do with civil society, nothing to do with mutual sympathy and support. It's just plain evil. End of story. This is why there are no living socialists anywhere in elected office.
Talisker: Socialisim is great in theory. However, in practice it simply dosen't work because human beings by nature always want a little bit more than the guy next door, this is particularly true of America, and if we all have the same that's not a possibility. This is where Democracy steps in. Democracy gives people an oppertunity to have their say by voting but it also allows people to have more that the guy next door if they want it enough to earn it. Thus giving everyone something to aspire to.
Yeah, I think that others have already corrected the general flaws in the original stuff: Socialism = economic system wherin the government controls the means of production and all people are theoretically treated the same economically Facism = thought police (if it were possible)
As for the thing Scubamike1978 noted at the end, I find that little instance funny since the United States itself calls itself a Democracy (which it is not. At all. In any sense. Other than that it shares similarities with Republics. Period) while it is a Republic, making the political system to be theoretically a "Democractic" Republic of the United States of America (*GASP* did I just draw a relation between the United States and Facism?!).
Now, for me, the United States is all about generalizations and simple stimuli-based media. And by generalizations I mean stereotypes, flawed perceptions, xenophobia (or alternatively slack-jawed awe), and racism (nah, let's not go there). Stereotypes - I go to college; ergo I am a drunk, over-sexed, although still at least average in intelligence (presumably). Flawed Perceptions - I didn't live any one place for more than a couple of years in my early life. I would move to a new place only to find out that the way I do/did things is/was wrong and that I was stupid. Xenophobia (or xeno-awe) - I was born in Japan, therefore I was either Japanese or so cool for the first dozen or so years of my life- not specifically because it was Japan, but because it was not the people's little (almost) walled-off bubbles they called homes. This is, despite the fact that I have no memories of my approximately six-month stay there as a newborn/infant and that my parents were born and raised in dos U.S. and that my father was in the military on duty over in Japan on a U.S. military base.
Cheeze_Pavilion: First, who said parents *weren't* doing a good job regulating their children in the first place? These proposed laws are, in my opinion, not necessary to protect children and are just a way of imposing a certain morality on others.
Are you actually trying to pull that whole "imposed morality" bullshit? The point of it is that if people are going to complain about something that they, themselves (indivisibly), did and blame others for their own lack of oversight then they are being blithering idiots. If they are complaining without even being effected or if they are complaining based on flawed arguments or sensationalist media then they are, again, being blithering idiots. The video game ratings are: 1) A very simple (and sometimes over-the-top (comic mischief can sometimes bring a rating all the way up to teen by itself?)) explaination of content, 2) A recommendation (i.e.- blithering idiot parent A can still buy their little psycho G.T.A. San Andreas or Vice City if they want, just as much as intelligent parent B can buy their little common sense-infused brat the same games) [EDIT]for a particular age the game should be played by (oops, got wrapped up in the example and forgot to put this in)[/EDIT], 3) Because of the blithering idiot parents unable to control their little psychos complaining and bitching about how it's unwholesome and turned their or another little psycho into a psycho when they already had problems that were left out in the wild instead of dealt with like a responsible person would do.
Scubamike1978: Fascism A political regime based on strong centralized government, suppressing through violence any criticism or opposition of the regime, and exalting nation, state, or religion above the individual.
Liberalism A political movement founded on the autonomy and personal freedom of the individual, progress and reform, and government by law with the consent of the governed.
Socialism Any of various political philosophies that support social and economic equality, collective decision-making and public control of productive capital and natural resources, as advocated by socialists.
(Source: Wiktionary.org)
Fascism = Control by authority Liberalism = Personal freedom Socialism = Equality
(Source: Scubamike1978)
Personally I'd prefer an even mix of the three, Personal freedom unless detrimental to others with the control decided by equal citizens. Guess that's democracy.
Any why do dictatorships tend to call themselves "The Democratic Republic of ..." when they are neither democratic or representative of the people.
Very nice post. It clears up the confusion- very pithily- between fascism and socialism. I tell you, sometimes I can't see the dividing line myself. As for a mix of the three, many would say that you can have liberty or equality (and sometimes neither) but not both, as to enforce equality is to deny liberty and to permit liberty is to let others take more from the swag because of what they DID with their liberty. Plus it's sexy to have "Democratic" in the title. Orwell be damned. /pomp
What's this about the dregs of society?? I hope that's not some class elitism happening.
Anyways, socialism. Britain's a pretty socialist country, and we're doing alright. The NHS was an absolutely fantastic system, up until Thatcher started privatising it a la American Healthcare. The only reason it's floundering now is because the government is simply throwing money at it and expecting it to get better, rather than doing a proper investigation into what needs to be fixed.
We've also got state-run police, postal services, army, etc and they're all running along nicely.
And despite all sorts of blunders up at HP and in the world in general, we've still got a solid economy. Probably because we don't base it on warfare or corporations.
What is that anyhow, and more importantly, what is America all about?
I would say America is mostly about pick-up trucks and funny videos about shots to the groin and old people falling off docks.
But America is also about luxury cars and houses in the Hamptons where big deals get made by Wall Street types.
What is America all about? Uneasy contradictions. We're supposed to have that Protestant work ethic, but we're also supposed to want to be an heiress like Paris Hilton. Our government is less entangled with any Church than just about any other country yet it's more entangled with Religion than the other western democracies. We're supposed to want to be ordinary folk but we're also supposed to want to be the quarterback of the team that wins the championship. We're supposed to want to live in a small town *and* in an affluent suburb *and* in a great location in a city. Our women are supposed to want to be June Cleaver *and* one of the girls on Sex and the City. Our men are supposed to just be 'a good old boy' *and* captains of industry. We're supposed to gorge ourselves on beer and wings on Friday night in front of the big screen TV, yet by Saturday we're supposed to have Abs of Steel and a Body by Jake for our trip to the beach.
What is America mostly about? Figuring out how to get through the day without collapsing under the weight of all these conflicting identities. Anyone who makes America out to be anything less complex than all of that is wrong, and probably is more interested in an ax they have to grind about something they don't like about America than they are in really figuring out "what is America all about."
Cheeze_Pavilion: First, who said parents *weren't* doing a good job regulating their children in the first place? These proposed laws are, in my opinion, not necessary to protect children and are just a way of imposing a certain morality on others.
Are you actually trying to pull that whole "imposed morality" bullshit? The point of it is that if people are going to complain about something that they, themselves (indivisibly), did and blame others for their own lack of oversight then they are being blithering idiots. If they are complaining without even being effected or if they are complaining based on flawed arguments or sensationalist media then they are, again, being blithering idiots. The video game ratings are:
Hold up there chief before you go gettin' all bovine scatological on us. Read what I actually wrote. I said:
These proposed laws
I'm not talking about "The video game ratings" so I think you've just misunderstood me.
My understanding is that the exchange between the two people in the OP is over the *proposed laws* not the *ratings* although it refers to the ratings to make a point about the necessity/legitimacy of the laws. That's why I was talking about "proposed laws" in my reply, and not "video game ratings" which I think was kinda clear.
I think that America is slowly becoming somewhat of a facist/democracy... Where in we vote to place people into office and we are slowly allowing the power to be placed into the hands of those same people. More and more we ALLOW this set up to a facist nation to happen. We look to the national leadership to make our decisions more and more. The governments (national and the various state) are passing more and more laws to restrict us and make our decisions for us... and we. let. it. happen. Seat belt laws, smoking bans, the power of our police forces, drug and substance laws, etc. We allowed these laws to move into place through complacency. The loudest of the groups, and so the only ones heard, are usually those who don't wish to take responsability for themselves and their children. They don't want to tell little jimmy that he can't play a game cause it's too violent, so they will plead with the government to just ban or restrict those games from even being created/imported so little jimmy won't pester his mom about them. Drugs make people act irresponsably, so we must ban them! Alcohol? Oh well, that doesn't count. Thousands die every year in vehicular incidents? Make them wear seatbelts! Choice? No.. WE are their voted leaders! WE will decide for them! Why promote common sense when we can ENFORCE it. I have always felt that the workings of our government are broken, but short of rebellion, how would the core ever change? I eventually see the government gripping us so tightly that the nation will implode. That day will make the whole of our nations violent history appear tame, I think. Or, we will all be slaves to our robot masters by then. Either way, it'll be a change. [/soapbox]
These proposed laws Would come from the percieved insufficient nature of the video game ratings that were the original "regulation." They are not actual regulation and, as such, don't meet some people's standards, despite being everything these proposed laws would be short of being able to punish people for breaking them (sorta). All they are supposed to be is preventative (kinda like AirBorn for video games without me hating it so exceedingly much).
X Kin: The right wing in America, which is a large group, react to anything liberal by calling it socialism. Like when universal health care was getting some attention because it may be reintroduced the right wing instantly classed that as socialism to scare the people and keep their profits.
Guess what? Universal HealthCare IS socialism, you dimwit. It's the government siezing control of an industry in order to evenly distibute its products and services all across the populace at the expense of everyone, whether that need it or not. That is the EXACT definition of socialism.
Cheeze_Pavilion:
But America is also about luxury cars and houses in the Hamptons where big deals get made by Wall Street types.
I'm suddenly reminded of a quote from Team America: World Police "Let me explain to you how this works: you see, the corporations finance Team America, and then Team America goes out... and the corporations sit there in their... in their corporation buildings, and... and, and see, they're all corporation-y... and they make money."
Seriously, people really shouldn't talk about things they know absolutely nothing about.
LordOmnit: These proposed laws Would come from the percieved insufficient nature of the video game ratings that were the original "regulation." They are not actual regulation and, as such, don't meet some people's standards, despite being everything these proposed laws would be short of being able to punish people for breaking them (sorta). All they are supposed to be is preventative (kinda like AirBorn for video games without me hating it so exceedingly much).
Unless you're saying a $500 fine is only 'sorta' a punishment, "short" of punishing people, these laws certainly are "actual regulations" if we're talking about Washington state. The New York bill also would have imposed fines--you can look up just how many of these proposed laws included fines.
A fine is a punishment. A law which makes an act illegal and backs it up with fines is a regulation. It's that simple.
if they were in fact laws as opposed to proposed. As for you nit-picking about my (sorta), you seem to have mistaken that sentence for something it wasn't; the sentence was about how the rating system IS NOT the laws and as such cannot truly punish.
Razzle Bathbone: Silly Larenxis. Everyone knows that socialism = evil. It has nothing to do with helping those who are unable to help themselves, nothing to do with civil society, nothing to do with mutual sympathy and support. It's just plain evil. End of story. This is why there are no living socialists anywhere in elected office.
The only reason anyone would think socialism is inherently evil is the fact that American's where and are feed Americanized propaganda against communism since the Cold War. The misconception that socialism, being the build block philosophy of communism should also be considered "evil" is misinformed and completely bias. The truth to me is that all the communist governments I've ever heard of weren't fundamentally socialist and actually were more based on fascism because unless a communist government has some sort of republic representation of the people then no real equality can be made just a mandated order that all people, under law, must follow. Yeah thats not socialism in practice. Vote yes for socialized health care!
X Kin: The right wing in America, which is a large group, react to anything liberal by calling it socialism. Like when universal health care was getting some attention because it may be reintroduced the right wing instantly classed that as socialism to scare the people and keep their profits.
Guess what? Universal HealthCare IS socialism, you dimwit. It's the government siezing control of an industry in order to evenly distibute its products and services all across the populace at the expense of everyone, whether that need it or not. That is the EXACT definition of socialism.
The Universal HealthCare I think X Kin was referring to was the Clinton proposal back in '93. According to Section 1003 of Title 1 of the proposed plan, "Nothing this Act shall be construed as prohibiting...an individual from purchasing any health care services." In other words, it was not imposing even distribution of medical services, just a floor--if you wanted more health care you were free to pay for it.
Cheeze_Pavilion:
But America is also about luxury cars and houses in the Hamptons where big deals get made by Wall Street types.
I'm suddenly reminded of a quote from Team America: World Police "Let me explain to you how this works: you see, the corporations finance Team America, and then Team America goes out... and the corporations sit there in their... in their corporation buildings, and... and, and see, they're all corporation-y... and they make money."
Seriously, people really should talk about things they know absolutely nothing about.
As for you nit-picking about my (sorta), you seem to have mistaken that sentence for something it wasn't; the sentence was about how the rating system IS NOT the laws and as such cannot truly punish.
Yeah, I know it was--I didn't mistake anything. Now: why did you respond to my reply to talk about the ESRB ratings system considering I wasn't talking about the ESRB ratings system?
That's my point--I don't see why you're talking to me about the ESRB ratings system when I was never talking about the ESRB ratings system.
Fascism = Control by authority Liberalism = Personal freedom Socialism = Equality
*sigh* I got my "isms" mixed up again...
j-e-f-f-e-r-s: What's this about the dregs of society?? I hope that's not some class elitism happening.
Far from it, I'm not talking about the people who actually need help, I'm talking about the ones who ride the coattails of the system,making it hard for anyone to get any assistance.
Cheeze_Pavilion: That's my point--I don't see why you're talking to me about the ESRB ratings system when I was never talking about the ESRB ratings system.
Like I said before, where would new laws come from other than percieved failings in the previous system? That's what overturning/revising any kind of regulation (from lack thereof to entire governments) is about.
Here's how it went:
i_am_undead:
The American film industry is actually a self-regulated one, and police are hired to stand-in at theater ticket counters for leverage. You should take a look at this policy declaration from the National Association of Theater Owners, who are the operators of theater franchises like National Amusements and AMC.
http://www.natoonline.org/NATO_FTC_Response.pdf
Likewise, the video game industry must also be self-regulated, but the ESRB has only been in operation since 1994 - and thus their influence is still growing; this is compared to the MPAA which has been rating movies for well over 30 years. This is why state and federal governments have stepped in to help regulate the industry - because the ESRB is insufficient.
Despite all of this, I still believe that the ESRB does an excellent job of providing fair ratings for games which PARENTS of legal minors can use to make decisions. What I am saying is if the parents did a good job regulating their children in the first place, then the government would not have stepped in.
..................................................................................
VikingRhetoric:
I have a feeling that if people like this get their way, it wont be too long before we have a Happy Days version of socialism.
Regulating what you think, say, do, and feel.Making sure everyone is equal(I.E. getting functional people to drop down to the dregs level, because they're victims, and we shouldn't force them to achieve things), stupid and complacent.
And I think the saddest part of that is we are quite close to that already.
Now, onto the original point(or part of it anyway), I don't watch the news.
At all.
For this particular reason.
Modern media(I refuse to call that tripe news) is focused solely on shock, celebrity worship and keeping us stupid.Your average political pundit is nothing more than a retard* in a suit.Cnn and the like have a far left slant, and fox has a far right slant.
Of course it's not all political/attacking random group horseshit.There is nothing I love more than turning on any news network, and hearing about Anna nicole smith, or the fact that Britney spears is a terrible mother.I can't imagine why the rest of the world hates america, when this is what they have to go by.
*Sans helmet, obviously.
............................................................................................
i_am_undead:
VikingRhetoric Indeed!
"Big Brother" is watching whether it's broadcast on our sensationalist news networks or not! And as far as the slant goes - you better have a bias for whoever signs your checks! And by "you" I mean "them."
I require further iteration on the "Happy Days Socialism" - the Fonze says "Heyyy!"
I made up this kind of socialism! It's called "復興中華!!復興中華 Socialism" Yaaaay!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JST-TlOTRec&feature=related
.........................................................................................
VikingRhetoric:
Happy days = watered down version of America, where everyone gets along, almost as if forced.
I figure any form of socialism that takes place in america will have to be decidedly american in nature, however, it will remove most of what makes america america.While it wont be as bad as, say, russias decent into a third world hellhole, it will still take this nation into direction that I detest vehemently.
............................................................................................
i_am_undead:
That is the most generalized statement I have ever read. You lost me in the dark abyss that is "Happy Days" rhetoric. What exactly is America all about? Wait, I'll start a forum and we'll go on this journey together! It'll be fun! Make sure to go and post! I'll title it "American Socialism, What's It All About?: A Fireside forum with i_am_undead and VikingRhetoric!" I'll see you there! AwaaYYYY!
............................................................................................
And here we are! Open the floodgates of empty rhetoric! This is the new "Federalist Papers," only this is about the so-called "Happy Days Socialism!"
What is that anyhow, and more importantly, what is America all about?
I would say America is mostly about pick-up trucks and funny videos about shots to the groin and old people falling off docks.
What do you think America is all about? And what is the "vehemently detested" direction all about? Are they going to take away my "shot to the groin" funny videos?