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Paperboy  Posts: 26 Joined: 16 Mar 2008     | |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1618 Joined: 10 Apr 2007     |
To use a drama parallel, isn't it art to recite the lines written by another playwright? Isn't that the more valid analogy for someone playing a guitar tune written by another person? To make the analogy of an artist "tracing" another fit, wouldn't the person playing guitar have to be just strumming along while the original artist works the frets? I think you've confused music *composition* as an art form with music *performance* as an art form. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1811 Joined: 14 Nov 2007  |
I'd never thought of it like that, but now that you mention it, yes indeedy. Bets on Spandeu Ballet making the next GH? Anyways, to try and answer the question: Why do guitarists get so sniffy about Guitar Hero? Here's my shiny tuppence on the matter. Though the guitar is an iconic, expressive, hugely cool instrument, it's also a widely derided one. I know a few classical musicians, and though I've been playing for nigh on 9 years, I still get called the un-musical one. To a lot of people, it's not a 'real' instrument. Why, you ask? A few months ago, I was at a party. There was an acoustic guitar lying around. I was tempted to have a play on it, then some chap loudly declares 'Oh yeah, I'm really effing good on guitar'. He then picks it up, and struggles his way through Wonderwall. He cocks up more times than I want to remember, his technique is absolutely awful, he has no sense of pitch whatsoever, and yet when he finishes half the girls in the room are swooning for him. Do I sound jealous? Perhaps, but here's the point. The guitar is an instrument that takes years to master, just like any other instrument. In the right hands it can conjur up emotions you've never felt before. A skilled guitarist is just as talented as a skilled violinist, or a skilled pianist. However, decades of young chaps picking up a guitar and learning just enough Bryan Adams to woo the girls has meant that the guitar has become a symbol for musical laziness. People pick it up, learn to play the Am-G-F run and think they're the dog's bollocks. Real guitarists (I know that term is associated with all sorts of elitism, but I'm going to use it anyway) have had to practise, struggle and fight for years to show that the guitar is just as complex and worthy an instrument as anything out of the orchestra. Now, all of a sudden Guitar Hero pops along, and the notion that the guitar is a luddite's instrument is reinforced with steel girders. 'How complex can the guitar be?' the masses cry, 'It's been turned into a plastic kid's toy.' Now the guitarist's mission to prove the worthiness of his instrument has become even harder. This is probably just wounded pride talking. After all, you don't hear soldiers complaining about how COD4 steals from their glory or anything. I guess, for me, it comes down to the fact that I've toiled and struggled for years to be able to get to where I am on guitar today, and I know I've still got a long way to go. Now, all of a sudden, anyone can pick up a plastic guitar and play with the skills I had to literally bleed out of my fingers to earn. It really is a difficult instrument to master, and the egoist in me wants people to recognize that. |
Paperboy Posts: 13 Joined: 30 Mar 2008 |
Perfectly justified in my opinion. I get sick of hearing people talk about GH and seeing the YouTubes. I've been playing YYZ by Rush for several years now and GH dumbed it down quite a bit. I remember it took me for friggin' ever to learn Inferno by Symphony X on a real guitar; the last thing I want is for some sun-deprived freak of nature to show me his 1337 GH skillz, whacking a few buttons back and forth. |
BANNED  Posts: 317 Joined: 30 Jan 2008  | why do guitar players then feel the need to rub their unwelcome noses in every guitar hero player's face? not every guitar player does this but for some reason a few of them feel threatened that the only talent they possess is somehow being undermined. GH player: I can do this! Is a Guitar hero player specifically says he is better than a guitar player, then you can talk down to him. If he mentions that he is good at GH, don't rate him on his RLG skill... thats just idiotic and as wrong as you can get before you start eating suppositories (no, i didn't steal this from family guy, i have been using it for years before that fat idiot stole my line). As i have said, not every RLG player does thins, but when they do you wonder why they don't play drums... Thats right, i just generalized Drummers as stupid, and none of you know where to find me, and if you do, then ill bet you cant be bothered to come get me. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1525 Joined: 7 Mar 2008     |
that's because they're douches and realize they're really doing the same thing but on a real guitar and by that i mean just copying what someone is playing and doing it in time with the music it also has something to do with ego and thinking how self important they are. the cool ones love guitar hero and can tell the difference between real guitar and a video game. it's the ones that think they're something special, which they aren't. as a good example when they couldn't find the master tapes for "cult of personality" by living color, the band rerecorded it and Vernon made the solo harder because they were gh fans and wanted to make it harder in the game as for ppl in other fields, do you see nfl players getting mad that you're awesome at madden? that's a big no, they'd only be pissed if you weren't playing at them are mlb players upset about you doing awesome in mlb 2kX? see previous answer are nba players upset you can do mad dunks and make shots from downtown in nba 2kX or nba street? see previous answer are nascar drivers made you can do awsome in the nascar game? nope it's only guitarists that get pissed about you doing awesome in a video game
don't get me started on drummers, i'm not even sure they are fully functional humans, by far the most mentally messed up member of the band, my friend's drummer used to yell out random and bizarre song dedications among other REALLY strange things, most of which while funny are totally not safe for work, the brain or this forum they are definately in their own world |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1788 Joined: 7 Feb 2008  | I think most real musicians are slightly angry that now people can get the feel of playing an instrument without really having to work at it, hence inspiring rage at people bragging about their "skill" at guitar hero. Conversely I know many musicians who get a real kick out of Guitar Hero and Rock Band because they're just plain fun. Though people who "brag" about game skills in general are kind of silly. It is after all, just for fun, and being able to "dominate" all comers just ensures that you'll never have anyone to play with. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1017 Joined: 16 Jan 2008  | I'm happy for people to know they're good at it. I do, however know a guy who is so far up his own arse his adam's apple is actually his nose pressing against the inside of his neck, all because he can do guitar hero. In cases like that, ANY reason to be annoyed at that kinda person is justified, just because they need a slap. Otherwise, it is a difficult skill and taking some pride in the game is reasonable. |
Beat Writer Posts: 199 Joined: 11 Jul 2006 | Guitar Hero is brilliant because it both exposes players to rock music that they might never have otherwise heard and because it can lead to an interest in playing an actual guitar. This is a big reason why Gibson, Fender and other gear manufacturers are attached to Guitar Hero and Rock Band, and why Red Octane and Microsoft sponsored Guitar Player magazine's Guitar Hero 2007 competition. Guitar players who get all elitist about Guitar Hero and similar games are missing the point. These games aren't competition for the real guitar, and are in many cases a stepping stone to picking up the real instrument. |
Muckraker  Posts: 271 Joined: 2 Feb 2008  |
How d'ya reckon this then? But anyway. the whole guitar hero vs real guitar argument is a two sided street and on both sides there should be a sign with huge neon lights saying this: "Its just a fucking game" guitar players shouldnt get annoyed and ridicule people who are proud of what they've accomplished on GH because they're having fun and proud of their achievments. And on the other hand GH players who claim to be brilliant at the real guitar because they've done N amount of songs on expert on a video game need to be hit over the head with their guitar controller so that the brain switches on. And with every street there's a road, and on that road driving happily are the ones who dont give a damn and are happy playing the game for what it is.. A GAME. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 2 Joined: 31 Mar 2008 | Here's what I think. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1618 Joined: 10 Apr 2007 |
Think about it--the sound is not produced by causing the string to vibrate over pickups with the one hand, but rather by pushing a button with that hand to tell a computer to make a sound. The other hand doesn't shorten the length of those strings to change the sound they make, but rather pushes buttons to tell a computer what kind of sound to make. And you wear it around your neck, so instead of being a keyboard with only a couple of buttons, it's a keytar.* *AquaNet not included |
Muckraker Posts: 271 Joined: 2 Feb 2008 | lol i wasnt really thinking at the time but yeah... i see ya point...though keytars do kick some mighty fine ass...and i dont really like GH. ^^ |
Paperboy Posts: 13 Joined: 30 Mar 2008 |
Not exactly. It simplifies guitar playing to the point where any twit with an once of brain cells thinks they can pick up a guitar and be good at it. The sad part is, the more of these people who exist, the worse future guitarists are going to be. Hammer downs, pull offs, slides, etc. etc. etc. are never even played in GH. What about finger picking, effects pedals, natural and artificial harmonics? These are all the types of things that separate a good guitarist (like Van Halen) from your bland, talentless types (like Kurt Cobain). |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 6360 Joined: 28 Nov 2007    | I'm pretty good at Guitar Hero. I suck at normal guitar. I will admit that playing Guitar Hero inspired me to play real guitar, but by no means did I think I would instantly be good at it just because I can beat most songs on Expert on Guitar Hero. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1525 Joined: 7 Mar 2008 |
uhhh no playing a real guitar and playing guitar hero are two vastly different things, if you think, you're an idiot so by you're analogy gran turismo, nascar 2kX, ridge racer, need for speed all simplify driving so much you can get behind the wheel of any car and drive it? same goes for madden or nba 2kX or nhl 2kX too? you can simply pick up a football, basketball or hockey stick and simply play any of those sports? yeah right
actually they are all used in guitar hero, if you played the tutorial you'd see this, slides aren't because it's kinda hard to do a slide with buttons and i'm betting you probly never ever played the game, you're just ASSuming everything and don't really know what you're talking about |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1618 Joined: 10 Apr 2007 |
That's why it's basically possible to make an ANYTHING Hero with the right peripheral. Just think about the Guitar Hero: On Tour peripheral for the DS--it's the computer making the sounds because you're pushing buttons, not the mechanical aspect of the 'playing' causing any kind of physical vibrations. Hence, Flute Hero, which uses the keyboard as a 'flute'. No--I'm not making that up: http://criticalmass.blogs.citypaper.net/blogs/mu/2007/11/27/the-1-upper-flute-hero/ |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1618 Joined: 10 Apr 2007 |
No, the more of those people who exist, the more chance that someone who hit the nature/nurture lottery in terms of guitar potential is going to pick up a guitar and find out they're the next great guitarist. So what if a bunch of no-talents buy guitars? Just don't hang around their dorm room and you won't have to hear them play. On the other hand, the one-in-a-million talent that otherwise might never try a guitar--might never try *any* musical instrument--will get a guitar in her hands and we'll all be better off for it. Let's face it--Guitar Hero is doing the same thing schools have been trying to do for years with those horrible music classes where you play the recorder: get something that makes music into the hands of kids who otherwise would never pick up an instrument, in the hopes that the few of them that have talent are recognized. Only, this works because kids think it's cool and want to play it because it's a game, not a 'lesson'. Even if it is an anorexic keytar. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3801 Joined: 26 Feb 2008     |
I never had a problem with Guitar Hero, but people who brag that they are good at games annoy me... Especially dumbed down versions of the real thing. I have a friend that brags like he is God Incarnate every time he beats me at Halo 3. Which is weird, because he beats me every time... It gets annoying quick. He won't play any games that he knows I am good at, just games where he knows he has tons more experience than me and will kick my ass. Mostly it is still fun, but he gets very annoying. People bragging that they are good at Guitar Hero are even worse. Oh, so you can mash five buttons in time with a screen to arbitrarily match music that has nothing to do with what button you push? Good for you. I can't, and don't care if you can. That is all Guitar Hero is, one fucking huge Quick Time Event. Sue me if I don't like it. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3362 Joined: 23 Dec 2007  | Coming soon! Orchestra Hero! Play as any of 45 classical instruments with a molded plastic ukelele! |
Paperboy  Posts: 22 Joined: 14 Nov 2007 | I believe that all real guitar players would have to be good at guitar hero. I never really learned how to play guitar but i do know violin and I can pretty much get any song on guitar hero after a few minutes of practice. Your fingers cant be retarded and play guitar hero or a real instrument. I also feel kind of sad for GH players. I see these nerdy kids on youtube playing that little plastic guitar, playing their hearts out. but then i read the comments and people are like "why dont you learn a real guitar, you loser?" and i feel really mad. I feel like saying "why dont you learn how to not be a dick?" |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 676 Joined: 14 Dec 2007 |
So, in other words, you get pissed off when somebody is better then you at something and then do a little shit-talking? Listen mate, if you just don't like a game, that's one thing. But to get pissed off because "shock-horror", there are people better then you at it and like to brag? What the hell is wrong with you? Do you have some sort of inferiority complex or something? As for this "friend" of yours, if all he does is make you play games that he knows he is better at then you, and then parade around like some viking lord, why do you still hang out with him? Or better yet, tell him "fuck Halo, I want to play x game where I have a chance". What I find even more fucked up though, is that you chose to bitch about people bragging that they are good at video games on a VIDEO GAME WEBSITE. a little bragging between friends is normal, but there is a fine line between bragging, and being an asshole. Any one of us here can attest to that. If somebody thinks they are pure Jesus (not sarcastically), then either tell them to shut the hell up, or just walk away. Simple as that. |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 628 Joined: 31 Jan 2008 |
Ugh.. You dont make music by playing guitar hero... there are no notes, chords, scales. Pretty much the only thing musical is rhythm (which is why almost every drummer I know rocks at it) I have nothing against GH.. Im not that big on it anymore but I dont hate it.. Its a fun party game to play with a bunch of mates but thats all. I hate it when people compare it to playing a real guitar (and vise versa) because THEY ARE TWO TOTALY DIFFERENT THINGS |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1618 Joined: 10 Apr 2007 |
Maybe instead of taking the time to type in bold capslock, you should take the time to read what people actually write before responding. Where did I ever compare it to a guitar? Did I not specifically call it a keytar? I guess you don't know the difference or something. You should really learn the difference between a keytar and guitar before getting involved in this discussion. |
Paperboy  Posts: 25 Joined: 31 Mar 2008 | It really gets my panties up in a bunch when you know that you play a song on real guitar well but as soon as you pick up that Guitar Hero guitar and attempt to play the same song, it's 40x harder... |
Paperboy Posts: 13 Joined: 30 Mar 2008 |
Show me where to mute the strings on that piece of plastic. Show me how I can use 4 of the 5 fingers on my right hand to pick out the notes. Show me how I can hold a pick between two fingers and hammer down with a third to pull off an extremely long, fast solo. Show me where I have to hit with exactly how much force in order to sound a harmonic. Show me where the foot pedals are and when to step on them in order to activate the right sound at the precise moment. Oh wait... guess what! If people think GH has it "all" then there's always a chance those same people will find themselves behind the real instrument one day. Look at the trend that's already taken place. Back in the 60's and 70's you had the Progressive Rock movement take place at the forefront of pop culture. Bands like E.L.O., The Who, Queen, Yes, Rush and Jethro Tull were filling stadiums at concerts. Skip forward to the 80's and you started having bands like Megadeath, Bon Jovi, Def Leopard and Metallica join the pop-culture lineup. Skip ahead, again, to the 90's and you started hearing Nirvanna, Stone Temple Pilots and Pearl Jam being played religiously on the radio. Popular Rock music's been simplified to such an extent now that someone came up with the idea of putting everything you need into a simple piece of plastic that plays a "virtual guitar" on your TV screen. Hell, in the future, they might as well do away with 17 of the 22 frets and 5 of the 6 strings on a real guitar. After all, no musician is going to have the patience to sit there and try to play all 22 frets with all 6 strings. |
Infamous Scribbler Posts: 628 Joined: 31 Jan 2008 | Fair enough Mr Cheeze my point was not that clear.
"Ugh.. You dont make music by playing guitar hero... there are no notes, chords, scales. Pretty much the only thing musical is rhythm." This was my original point in reply to your comment. The rest of my post was a new point all together.. I should of pointed this our more clearly PS: I can bold capslock anything I want =) EDIT: Lerxst man I think you should chill.. Guitar and Gutair hero are two totaly diffrent skills that shouldnt be compaired to one anyother.. Like peeling an apple and eating an orange. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 3801 Joined: 26 Feb 2008 |
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I'm good at real guitar and guitar hero. but everyone i know who plays guitar is worse than me so i don't want to be a prick and rub it in, i just say 'oh i've been playing for 8 years and i'm shit' but when i bought GH2 it took a month to do every song in the game and when i got GH3 it took about a week. I prefer trashtalking people who are worse than me because at least when i can five star expert and they cant finish easy tour i have a right to badmouth them. I'm around the 30,000 mark on the leaderboards.