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Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1911 Joined: 13 Dec 2007     | |
Muckraker  Posts: 226 Joined: 16 Nov 2007    | It's more or less along the lines of a symbolic middle finger in my eyes. I'm in favor, but an all-out boycott of the games (something I'm not sure I would go for) would send a much stronger message. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1561 Joined: 5 Dec 2007  | Well, there are many ways to view this conflict and i havent really made up my mind. China is well on the way to becoming the most powerful country around and we cannot boycott "China". It might send a message that the injustices done to the tibetans and sudanese are unaceptable, but i doubt it would make a diffirence. It would also create alot of suffering amoung the milions of chinese who work in the factory and who loose their income. Even the Tibetan exile-govorment is not at all hostile to the Olypics and discourage boycotting it. Come to think of it, i have made up my mind. I shall lead my people to the Olympics. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1854 Joined: 13 Sep 2007    | Uninformed and too lazy to get informed. Oh well. Is it just because it's China or is it something they're doing? |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1335 Joined: 16 Jan 2008   | Its the whole free-Tibet thing. Personally I can't help feeling its all a bit pointless. I mean China is accusing the Dalai Lama of inciting violent protests, despite the fact he's only ever preached peace. That doesn't really strike me as the kind of mindset thats really going to be fazed by boycotts and rallies unless they really damage the economy or something. I'd quite like to be told I'm wrong on this one though. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1911 Joined: 13 Dec 2007 | It's not just the occupation of Tibet. It's also their disrespect for human rights, journalistic integrity, and the environment. Although Tibet is a major factor in the protests. |
Muckraker  Posts: 347 Joined: 5 Mar 2008    | I fully support protests who's goal is to point out Chinese Communist Party's failure in regards human rights both in their own nation and abroad. However, I do want to say one thing: In China's rise to power, they are making the same mistakes that many other nations made during their own rises to power. The US, Canada, Britain, Germany, Japan, and many more nations, all made horrible decisions during their own rises in power and during major growths in their own economies. I wish the Chinese government could realize that we in the west and developed world are not proud of the mistakes we made (especially in regards to aboriginal peoples). I also hope that China gets a free press (Xinhua is a fucking joke) and becomes a social democracy soon. There is no way an authoritarian government can keep a huge country of 1.3 billion people and hundreds of ethnic groups stable. This coupled with the ridiculous gap between the poverty-stricken peasants in the fields and the super-rich in the coastal cities makes China a major powder-keg. Wait, what was this thread about? Sorry for my lengthy and opinionated post, but the Chinese Communist Party bothers the hell out of me. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1561 Joined: 5 Dec 2007 | Well, to expand on my original post. Democracy in China (if we assume that it is the best social structure for the country) will not come from external involvement and if it does things will turn nasty. Democracy is a proces that takes a long time to develop properly and it must emerge on its own, like an army of Terran Battlecruisers slowly emerging it takes time but is unstopable when fully formed. And the people who try to put the flame come across as anarchic tossers that dont really understand the way the world works. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1652 Joined: 29 Dec 2007   | Boycotting the Olympics won't do anything. We already know what's going on for the most part and the damage is done. If we want to change things, we need to impose economic sanctions or something along those lines. Besides, the Olypmics is supposed to be about competition and unity, not politics. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3305 Joined: 21 Jan 2008   |
See, the problem with economic sanctions and the like is becuase, quite frankly, no one has the balls to place economic sanctions on China. China is fast becoming the next world power, due to their cheap labour, and consumer market (relates to population). Basically, no one can afford to become enemies with China, 'cos they produce an enormous amount of products, and they also import a lot. If, say Australia boycotted which created bad relations between the two countries, not only would we lose Chinese products, we'd also lose our big consumer of our mineral exports. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2019 Joined: 29 Mar 2008    | the very spirit of the olympic games is supposed to be about competing fairly and friendlike in a sporting contest. I dont think political factors should enter into it. i look at it kind of like christmas iwht the family. its the one time of the year you get together and have fun regardless of who slept with who's wife and who ran off with who's gay lover. wow, i have a messed up family |
Paperboy  Posts: 47 Joined: 2 Mar 2008  |
I love you. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1652 Joined: 29 Dec 2007 |
Well, looks like there's nothing to be done then. If we don't have the cojones to do something serious like and economic embargo, then why would the chinese think boycotting their games would be a serious display of protest? Trying to help the Tibetans now is just impractical. It doesn't matter if it's unjust, if you don't have the makings of a large scale opposition, then you've no way to act. |
Paperboy  Posts: 41 Joined: 20 Feb 2008  | First of all I'd like to say , You damn hippys. Sorry, couldn't help it. I don't think we should boycott the games. As Americans, were no different from the Chines. Just like the Chines gov, ares lies and uses their power irresponsibly. See, we have a lot in common. But being serious for a moment, have do we as Americans fell the need to protest against anything that is different from the way we do things? IF you take a step back and look at the issue, you will find that this has nothing to do with communism. It's about the fact that anything that might be different scares the living hell out of most Americans. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 4284 Joined: 2 Dec 2007   |
The philosophers of the net we are. I do believe we should. China has such power they can do anything they want and still get away with it (see the Tiananmen Square massacre) China has too much powetr over our economy so there is no way our government can make a stand to them. As much as it's wrong, we can't stop them, just keep on senmding angry letters. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 880 Joined: 23 Dec 2007   | China is but another superpower. As a superpower, it can do what the f*** it likes. On a side note, I have noted superpowers are actually becoming more and more powerful and unnaccountable to.... well, anything. Example: 2000 years ago, it was Rome. Powerful, but reliant on its citezens for its power AND thus weakened. 200 years ago: The british Empire: Largest empire known to man. Controled the seas, controled trade, but accountable to both its (wealthier) citezens and the powers of Europe. The USA and the USSR: Both incredibly powerful, but also both accountable to one another (we will exchange ser angry letter, so ve do not exchange the ICBM). Then the USSR went, and.... We were left with the USA. Still fairly omnipotent, but still accountable to its public AND its trading partners across the world. Now we have China. Who is not accountable toits public. Who is not accountable to trade. Who's only real potential opponent is buried so far up it's arse they are in serious danger of choking on their head. To conclude: I'm safe, because SA isn't worth nuking. Are you? |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1561 Joined: 5 Dec 2007 |
Destroying the Western Cape Peninsula would be the greatest crime to mankind ever done. |
BANNED  Posts: 502 Joined: 3 Jan 2008 | Boycotting the opening is like saying "Ok, there is a war going on, lets wait a week and then join in the fun, then we can say that we totally protested it". Boycotting the entire olympics is what we need. User was banned for: Zero Punctuation: Mailbag Showdown. (Permanent) |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1723 Joined: 7 Nov 2007    | Erm, I'm going to sound like a complete moron, but what are all these protests about. I would prefer not to be insulted, I don't watch the news, i only get kerrang radio news on the way home from school. |
Muckraker  Posts: 330 Joined: 17 May 2007  | Of course the CCP is accountable to its people. All governments are. Sometimes they can get away with minority support, if that minority dominates the media, but it's never nice to be a ruler of a country which hates you. Besides, there's little economic gain in controlling Tibet - it's not a huge industrial hub. The government wants it to be part of China as a point of pride, a reason for the population to like them. In fact I just read something very interesting about the timeline of the recent Tibet scandal: after the peaceful-turned-violent protests-turned-riots in Tibet, the government didn't do much until right-wing Chinese bloggers started denouncing it for its weak response to this lawlessness, and only then was the army ordered to suppress all dissent in Tibet. Whether those Chinese folk on the internet are representative of the general population is impossible to say - most Chinese are probably apathetic - but China has a very nationalistic culture. Some of that is encouraged by the state-controlled media, but Asian culture is traditionally more focused on group loyalty, whereas Western culture is all about rugged individualism. The key to any protest directed at China is not "how will the government respond?" but "what will the people think?" The Olympics are a Big Deal in China. China has a serious inferiority complex: despite having an impressive ancient history of strength and inventiveness, for the past two hundred years the Chinese have been conquered, re-conquered, invaded, exploited for trade and ridiculed. The Olympics is a symbol of their rise to respectability on the world stage. When Chinese people hear that the leaders of the countries that used to boss them around are boycotting the Olympic ceremonies, they're likely to feel belittled. Regular Chinese people don't care about human rights abuses in Tibet (if only because the state-run media doesn't tell them about it), they just want to be proud to be Chinese. So they're defensive. Shouting at them will only make them want to shout back. And that's what gives the CCP the authority to defy Western opinion. All politics is local, remember. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1511 Joined: 29 Dec 2007   |
China can veto any bill in the UN and is a massive trade location for everybody. Some goverments might want to boycot, but they can't because the backlash would be huge. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2900 Joined: 18 Dec 2007  | The Olympics is supposed to bring nations toghether in peace, not create violent protests. However I do beleive that Tibet deserves what it wants. I think I have to side with the monks on this one. |
Muckraker Posts: 347 Joined: 5 Mar 2008 |
From the protester's point of view: China invaded the mountainous region in central(ish) Asia known as Tibet in the 1950s. Then they suppressed the Tibetan language, culture, and religion. They also killed and tortured thousands of monks, nuns, and civilians. They also promoted the immigration of ethnic Han Chinese into Tibet to dilute the local population. HH The Dalai Lama the spiritual and political leader of the Tibet government in exile has always promoted peace, and he finds the violence and religious suppression to be an attack on human rights. He wants Tibet to have friendly relations with China, and be part of China, while having all the rights to religion and culture they had before China invaded. From the Chinese government's point of view: Tibet was and always will be a part of China. Tibet was a lawless religious dictatorship before China came and invested money and technology in it. The Dalai Lama is a "wolf in monk's clothing" who supports and instigates the violent protests that happen in Tibet. The Dalai Lama and his "clique" want complete independence from China no matter what the cost. With the state-run media (google "Xinhua" if you want to find out what a joke Chinese media is) of China and the huge restrictions placed on foreign journalists in Tibet, it's impossible to know what's going on. I fully support the Dalai Lama because he has done nothing to indicate that he is anything like what the Chinese government says he is. I also support the Tibetan cause because it reminds me too much of what Canada did to our native peoples. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1915 Joined: 18 Sep 2007  | Does it count as boycotting if you weren't going to bother watching the dragged-out, tedious, spectacularly pointless opening ceremonies in the first place? I will say that boycotting the Chinese-hosted Olympics will work about as well at freeing Tibet as boycotting the Soviet-hosted Olympics did at freeing Afghanistan. I disapprove of wasting one's efforts on pointless means. -- Steve |
Beat Writer  Posts: 134 Joined: 12 Feb 2008 | Hypocritical. So, we're not going to watch the Opening Ceremonies, yet we'll wear our "China-made" clothes, and talk on our "China-assembled" cell phones, and type on our "China-assembled" key boards all about how China is the worst country in the world and it must be stopped. And boycotting the Opening Ceremonies is going to 'Show Them real good!' It's all just a bunch of phony-baloney "make yourself feel good that you went out and supported a cause" BS. And furthermore... Ah, crap, I'm out of Gold in WoW, time to Internets over to China! |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1561 Joined: 5 Dec 2007 |
You do realise that all those buisnises strongly benefit the workers? Sure they dont have the same living standards as us, but it is alot better then starving. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 466 Joined: 7 Apr 2008  | i would like to boycot the olimpics because i think it would send a strong mesage but on the other hand it only realy hurts the olimpians who have been training for this so i dont know what to do. |
Beat Writer Posts: 134 Joined: 12 Feb 2008 |
The point is not to send China into a blackhole of poverty, martial law and despair, the point is to force the Chinese government to accept certain standards (no lead paint, higher wages, etc.) and practices (uhm, get the hell out of Tibet, maybe?, stop being the #1 polluter of the environment, etc.) that we're all enabling by continuing to rely on them as a primary source of foreign import. Secondly, it would also benefit us directly, by making it more (that is, more than it is currently) cost-effective to not outsource manufacturing jobs. Sure, the $1.00 a day wage a lot of Chinese workers make for working 16 hours is better than $0.00 a day, but that's like saying getting punched in the face once is better than getting punched in the face twice. how about instead of settling for getting punched, we all have a spot of tea and some scones? See? There are other alternatives... |
BANNED  Posts: 681 Joined: 6 Dec 2007 | I literally don't care. Nothing happening in China (or in fact almost anywhere else) directly or indirectly involves me, so it's irrelevant. User was banned for: Mom Calls For Ban On Underworld. (Permanent) |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1911 Joined: 13 Dec 2007 |
You don't breathe air? I guess the Asian Brown Cloud won't effect you then. EDIT: Whoops, forgot about the acid rain. |
BANNED Posts: 681 Joined: 6 Dec 2007 | Since that's on the opposite side of the planet from me, no. User was banned for: Mom Calls For Ban On Underworld. (Permanent) |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1561 Joined: 5 Dec 2007 |
Naturally, and you are definately right that the living standards for the Chinese should increase more then they have. But look at for example Britan, they average living standards during the industrial revolution were similar to those in China. China also has the problem of supporting the worlds largest population, while the one in Britan at the time was significantly smaller in relative size. Ofcourse we should take into acount that Britan also was a democracy and that may definately have influenced the pace of things. It is important to remember that the CCP is not some kind of Orwellian Regime. They are dictators by all means, but i dont think they actively strive to cause harm to the bulk of their population. A happy people means they stay in power without needing to beat down rebelions. |
Muckraker Posts: 292 Joined: 15 Dec 2007  | lmao right, because boycotting China for the olympics will magically make their authoritarian/communist/socialist/fascist regime realize the evils of their ways and leap into humanitarian reformation. The only way corporations will stop outsourcing jobs is if the country supplying workers refuse to outsource the workers. This will never happen; this is CHINA people. Why the hell would their government make any type of effective change? Killing people didn't accomplish it, how the hell would a boycott? The onl |
I was having a discussion about this over brunch today. I'm for boycotting the opening ceremonies, but I don't feel as informed as I ought to be to make a good decision. My friend's main argument was that the boycott won't change anything, but I don't think this is the case. So, I thought I'd ask the Escapist community.
The British Columbian premier Gordon Campbell (boo, hiss) has already confirmed he's going, which isn't that surprising as he's a corporate shill and an Olympics fanboy. I don't know what the EU has decided, though I heard they were having talks. Any other information?