Khell_Sennet:
Holy shit, Anarchemitis, I think you're onto something...

The problem is, where to put the ball, doesn't work in the center like that... I'd say left thumb because that's the traditional spot for movement controls, but thumb-operated trackballs are usually for the right thumb...

I gots it... But damned if I can draw it.

Well, I always thought this was pretty good.

I vote mouse+keyboard for 1 player per machine games.

Controllers are good because they are relativly cheap, can withstand a lot of punishment, and have long chords so you can stand back from the screen. This makes controllers ideal for parties and small children. Neither of which I have to deal with very often.

Depends on the game really.

Mouse control is unquestionably the superior control for FPS and RTS games. Traditional arcade controls are best for 2D fighting games. General console controllers with analog are kind of a "jack of all trades" control and do reasonably well with most games. The greatest strength of a console controller is that they are compact, ergonomic, and can be used without any support.

Ultimately, it really just comes down to whatever works for you. Some people swear by controllers for FPS and I've played platformers and driving games just fine with a mouse/keyboard.

I'm not going to say one is better than the other, it's like asking what the best game in the world is, there's no one answer. Personally i prefer mouse + keyboard. But a friend of mine is completely unco on mouse and kicks ass on controller. I don't know why i'm better with mouse than keyboard, maybe it's from excessive use as i'm more of a pc gamer as a pose to console. Either way, to me, one isn't "better" than the other.

Cheers

Shieldsy

Anarchemitis:
I've got it! We install a trackball into a controller! Figure 1:

Well done man! :)

I like the mouse for aiming, but I like the Wiimote more and I hate the Keyboard, 4 directional buttons or an analogue stick? I'll take my stick everyday.
Controller wins this hands down.

Spinwhiz:

Anarchemitis:
I've got it! We install a trackball into a controller! Figure 1:

Well done man! :)

I actually didn't draw that. It's actually an idea presented by a graphic artist who's website I found. He maybe less known for his more than famous known painting 'Touched by his Noodly Appendage' Figure 2 Check out his site.

I would love to say the mouse, but because most PC games require mouse + keyboard I'll go with the controller because I find the keyboard to be the most uncomfortable and unintuitive controller interface (keyboards where not concieved with games in mind).

rts + god game = mouse
fps = either. mouse is good for fast aiming but keybaord control lets it down. fixed max scrolling rate for consoles is useful for pacing aim, plus easy controller layout
3rd person = either again . WASD can be annoying but mouse helps in games that require a target (both examples from KOTOR)
fighting = console (but smash bros from n64 works pretty well on pc)
racing = ....who honestly cares about them

my line of arguement is that PC is needed to make console games. but since they are making it for something else it balances out
imagine you make up a crazy sport but have a friend play it instead. it protects you from any dangers...plus it might be pretty fun

"Also, spelling isn't that hard to do. Take a little time out and get your grammer right. Capital letters people."

I completely agree. Even the most basic spell-check application could tell you that you misspelled the word "grammar".

Mouse > Controller for first-person shooters, real-time strategies, and I'd argue RPGs as well. Any game in which precision is essential, or any game that involves a lot of UI to navigate will benefit from a mouse/keyboard. I'll use a controller on a brawl-style fighting game or driving game... but I generally don't play those types of games.

Here she be. (and please don't repost my work anywhere...)

The ultimate console controller. This is the kind of thing I dick around with while trying to kill time at work, an idea pops into my head, and I have to work it out...

Before I say anything else about my "Damocles", please know that this device would be held differently than a traditional console gamepad. You are not cupping it in your hands like a pair of hedge trimmers, but instead picture your hands completely vertical, like you were giving a karate chop. Curl the fingers in slightly, and push your elbows up-and-out just a tad... NOT pictured on the device would be the handstraps, over the white areas below the controls (over my logo on the one side). You would slip your hands in between the straps and the device, and its the straps that keep the Damocles from falling out of your grip since you don't actually "Grip" it.

On to the device itself... the leftside is modeled after the Belkin Nostromo N52. From extensive personal use of the N52, I find that the ten (of 14) buttons I included tend to be the only ones easy to reach, so I dropped three from the bottom row and the top left corner keys from the design. The layout of the keys works wonderfully for a WSAD style control. making this very good for console FPS's. Also on the leftside grip is a standard analog stick (sony style, where pressing in is a button).

The rightside grip is mainly a trackball tilted onto its side. Thumb-driven optical ball, standard left-right mouse buttons (No Macs Allowed : p ), and standard mousewheel with press-in third button function. In addition, behind the mouse buttons is an extra button, this particular one would be backlit with one of four colors of LED. The button itself could be programmed like any other button, but the backlight color would act as a battery-level indicator. Green for normal, yellow for low, red for almost-empty, and blue for charging (off when fully charged).

Final feature listed feature is the LCD screen, which displays a variety of information depending on what the game is programmed to show. Just for kicks, the picture being displayed was an April Fools joke from Blizzard... See if you can figure it out. Not listed on the pic I made, I also considered two additional features for this device. I've hinted at the fact it's wireless (otherwise why a battery level indicator?)... I'd want for this controller to do what no controller prior has done. Namely, be both wired AND wireless. Have the "wire" work much like a traditional A+B USB cable. While plugged into the console, the device runs straight off the console's power. When unplugged, it runs off battery power. The cable connection itself would be the charger, no extra charging station needed, just plug it in to the console and it charges until full, and turns off when done. The second thing I considered, is a memory card slot. Pretty basic addition.

And to the mods, I know I'm not supposed to post images, but I've been on good behavior and this is both relevant to the thread and constructive. If I'm to be penalized for being on topic and constructive, thats' just not fair.

..You consider serious dimensions for this controller? Looking at it, I'm willing to be it's going to be the size of the xbox controller, if not large, in order just to house all the electronics for the buttons, LCD, trackball, etc. Which may make it uncomfortable to hold up and grasp, even with the handstraps.

..I have other questions/critques, but they all lie within the electronic component domain, and I'm not sure if you want to get that in-depth with it. As it is, if there's no processing going on in that controller, you'll have a cord several centimeters thick...

A used to think you couldn't play FPS on a console, but after some time of getting used to it, i begin to fell more at home using a controller. The breakthrough came around Red Faction, a game I genuinely thought worked on a console and one where i switched off autoaim for the first time. The 3 things the controller has that the maouse and Keyboard lacks:

1. Thumbstick for movement. This is in my opinion superior to the w+a+s+d combo. You have a much better control of your movement. Sure, it isn't as effective for looking around, but since no FPS really is cross platform, this doesn't matter. You get good at what tools you have at hand.
2. Triggers. I've started to appreciate those buggers. Being able to have different levels of force applied is really helpfull, especially because they're so well placed for the finger to operate
3. Rumble. This isn't really a necessity, but a very nice feature. It gives an extra kick, and for me ads to the experience of the game. It's kind of tame to fire a machinegun without feeling it rattle in your hand. Props to nintendo for making this a reality

Erana:
I can never do any FPSing with a mouse. Perhaps its because I always have my mouse on an extremely high sensitivity...

then turn it down

If they can make the Nintendo DS Lite as compact as it is, this thing should be a piece of cake... The cordless-ness and LCD are easy enough to sacrifice to make this thing more realistic, doing so could also bring the two grips in closer and make the whole package more spherical.

Sizewise, the grips should vertically (where the hands sit) be as wide as two PC mice's widths (AKA, same as the Nostromo N52 sans the DPad). The optical trackball side shouldn't be any problem, as the controller's grip size is greater than a Trackman Wheel.

As to the cord size... 13 buttons, an analog stick, and a trackball w/ mousewheel. I've seen LED lit joysticks with less functionality than that, and their cords aren't all that much bigger than a mouse cord.

Sure, the Nintendo DS is very compact, but that's also reflected in the cost. About $150 U.S., and they're probably selling that at a loss. The thing is, would people spend $150 on a controller?

As for the aspects, I'd have to do some genuine research into parts and such to present better questions. Sounds like a pretty good idea, though.

Necrohydra:
Sure, the Nintendo DS is very compact, but that's also reflected in the cost. About $150 U.S., and they're probably selling that at a loss. The thing is, would people spend $150 on a controller?

As for the aspects, I'd have to do some genuine research into parts and such to present better questions. Sounds like a pretty good idea, though.

Never said this puppy would be cheap, but electronics of any kind have tremendous markups on them. With the trend of $100+ computer mice, $150+ keyboards... I don't think there's too much issue with price. If it works, and works better than the previous option(s), there is a market for it. Also, technology drops in price quite fast. Market this for PCs first, then when sales volumes have covered the cost of development, try for a cheaper price on a console version.

Personally It depends on what mood I'm in, and what game I'm playing; although a keyboard & mouse gives more control options and a more interactive feel an actual controller can be easier to use especially fast paced games such as Unreal Tournament. I do however prefer keyboard & mouse for RPG, puzzle and strategy games like Age of Empires and Diablo, and a controller for FPS and general shooter/action like Half-Life or Call of Duty.

also, yes the idea of incorporating a track ball and keyboard into a controller is a very interesting concept.

Mouse & Keyboard rules the gaming universe.

The mouse lets you use your own reflexes and doesn't make you depend on a game's preset movements and allows you to stop when you want to and go when you want and if it gets old and breaky..it costs less than a controller.

Khell_Sennet:
Now for the last, 5 or so years, I've been a dedicated trackball user. Trackman Wheel specifically, I can only work with thumb-driven trackballs, not those top-ball finger models. I can do things in Battlefield that no mouse user can match

No players can match? i'd love to see you take your trackball up against tourney level fps players with Razers or the Logitech 'G' series mice etc.
How can you really twitch game properly with a trackball? get a decent mouse (and a decent mat, don't sell yourself short on that after splashing all that cash) turn the sensitivity up to downright silly (just moving my mouse from one side of the pad to the other makes me spin about 8 full rotations) and then fire up counterstrike (or Battlefield if you like a slower pace fps) and let rip, it takes a while to get used too but really nothing compares to it, tournament FPS players these days (not that I'm saying I am one) use mice and not trackballs for a reason.

Drong:

Khell_Sennet:
Now for the last, 5 or so years, I've been a dedicated trackball user. Trackman Wheel specifically, I can only work with thumb-driven trackballs, not those top-ball finger models. I can do things in Battlefield that no mouse user can match

No players can match? i'd love to see you take your trackball up against tourney level fps players with Razers or the Logitech 'G' series mice etc.
How can you really twitch game properly with a trackball? get a decent mouse (and a decent mat, don't sell yourself short on that after splashing all that cash) turn the sensitivity up to downright silly (just moving my mouse from one side of the pad to the other makes me spin about 8 full rotations) and then fire up counterstrike (or Battlefield if you like a slower pace fps) and let rip, it takes a while to get used too but really nothing compares to it, tournament FPS players these days (not that I'm saying I am one) use mice and not trackballs for a reason.

I said I can do things no mouse user can match, never said they were all useful things, some are some aren't. But the trackball gives me very good precision without the need to crank sensitivity to twitch-levels.

Contoler for me i have always been useless with the mouse/keybord malrchy.

PurpleRain:

Also, spelling isn't that hard to do. Take a little time out and get your grammer right. Capital letters people.

nO grammer and spelling is teh enemyz.

The mouse is more precisce, but the analaouge stick makes movement easier.

But trackballs are king, precise AND easy.

Khell_Sennet:
Most awesome controller ever.

Khell, can I join your plans for world domination?
<3

Saskwach:

Khell, can I join your plans for world domination?
<3

Yes, but you must supply your own Hawaiian shirt and Wiimote.

I mainly do racing games, so it's have to be controller, but be specific, im a computer & 360 gamer to you know!

Honestly I think a Joystick with a couple of buttons and a big ass screen an inch from your face is a lot better for fighting games than a controller. Maybe that's just me?

I don't like using a Keyboard for an FPS but I can see why they would be better.

And I think the Wii controls are the best for a...cartoon tennis simulator o_O.

Khell_Sennet:

Saskwach:

Khell, can I join your plans for world domination?
<3

Yes, but you must supply your own Hawaiian shirt and Wiimote.

I have a toy laser gun that lights up. Can I just use that instead?

easilly rockband drums.

come on if you could drum your way through COD4 or GTA4 or Half life 2 or any other games it would bring a whole new life to them.

I do think controller for me but mouse in general. I was never ood with a mouse but in theory it is better IMO.

I ABSOLUTELY HATE the keyboard

PurpleRain:
I think this threads been done before if I'm not mistaken.

Anyway, to answer the question: Controller. That's only because I'm used to owning a console.

Also, spelling isn't that hard to do. Take a little time out and get your grammer right. Capital letters people.

Just me being a bit of a prat, but it's spelt Grammar .
And I think controllers are better for precision.
Mouse seems too jerky for me.

This depends, me thinks.

I think mouses are better in fps games, while a controller is better in... ...pretty much everything else. :P

i like controlers for FPS cause they balance people out more. on mouse you can sneak up on someone and if they are a good tweaker one shot/burst and they are aimed at you. controler is uniform (for consoles) so it makes it more gaming skill and less better tweaker.

Mouse. Easier to move and use.

Mice are good for RTS', Joystick is good for games with lots of movement, like adventure games. FPSs need lightguns and omni-directional treadmills.