werepossum:
Both sides got some of what they wanted. The fledgling USA (having already proved it could beat Britain - the War of Independence was merely a generation back, remember) failed to drive the British out of the New World but got Britain to stop seizing their ships and sailors, even though Britain clearly had the maritime power to continue doing so, got the British to leave territories ceded to the USA after the War of Independence, and ended British support for the American Indian tribes fighting the US forces. Britain failed to recapture its former colonies but cemented the boundaries of the USA to protect its Canadian territories (and even more importantly, ended US support for the foul and most utterly foreign French, thereby ending French power in the Canadian territories as mentioned) by demonstrating that while they could not beat the USA in a protracted, long distance guerilla war, they could march in and destroy US cities pretty much at will.

It was a strange war. Britain was much stronger at sea, yet lost almost every maritime battle. Britain won almost all the early battles (except Fort McHenry), brought in large numbers of reinforcements, and then lost almost every battle.

It was also a pretty good war as wars go. Both sides got some of what they wanted, neither side was so successful as to be tempted to do it again, honor was served, and both sides claimed victory and went away more or less happy. I think cake was served.

The cake is a LIE!

Sorry, please don't ban me, I had to say it because I swear you did that just so someone would say it... And yes, that is exactly why it was an important war. We got our way, and so did they...

tthor:
why does every1 have to always rip on america? :(

Because it's fun
Because they deserve it for all the grief they've caused
Because it's easy
Because it's Friday night and we have nothing better to do
Because Canada's on top
Because its the one country that has pissed off every single nation currently in existence
Because of Bush
Because of Florida
Because they stole our best hockey players
Because we can
Because of Homeland Security
Because of NAFTA
Because they like big butts and they cannot lie
Because we're no longer afraid of them
and of course, Because they do it to us...

I agree with the NAFTA Reason anyway... And I like SHAPELY butts, but not so much big ones...

Darth Mobius:
I agree with the NAFTA Reason anyway... And I like SHAPELY butts, but not so much big ones...

dont trust the canadians ;O_O;

you wont be smiling when canada finally implements their plan, and 10 million canadians come marching into the U.S. and begin their quest for world domination! nobody would ever expect little ole' canada to ever do anything like start a war, until half of canada comes charging in with guns. (and ill be the 1 pointing to you all saying "i told u so!")

...u nvr no, it could happen. what else are they using all those guns for?

Khell_Sennet:

tthor:
why does every1 have to always rip on america? :(

Because it's fun
Because they deserve it for all the grief they've caused
Because it's easy
Because it's Friday night and we have nothing better to do
Because Canada's on top
Because its the one country that has pissed off every single nation currently in existence
Because of Bush
Because of Florida
Because they stole our best hockey players
Because we can
Because of Homeland Security
Because of NAFTA
Because they like big butts and they cannot lie
Because we're no longer afraid of them
and of course, Because they do it to us...

Speaking as a Brit who has lived in the States for the past eight years, I must say that the powers that be here are not my first choice for leaders and their actions certainly do not help with making international friends. And I have to agree with about 95% of this.

Hehe, at least you can take comfort that the U.S. will never steal your best curling teams.

Anyway, the way the War of 1812 was always presented to me as more or less win-win for all sides, though some obviously came out better than others. My classes usually focused more on the events of France and Russia during this time.

tthor:

Darth Mobius:
I agree with the NAFTA Reason anyway... And I like SHAPELY butts, but not so much big ones...

you wont be smiling when canada finally implements their plan, and 10 million canadians come marching int the U.S. and begin their quest for world domination! nobody would ever expect little ole' canada to ever do anything like start a war, until half half of canada comes charging in with guns. (and ill be the 1 pointing to you all saying "i told u so!")

...u nvr no, it could happen. what else are they using all those guns for?

That is okay, it will probably be a few years yet, now that we suspect their true intentions, and I will be living in Russia or Germany by then...

tthor:

Darth Mobius:
I agree with the NAFTA Reason anyway... And I like SHAPELY butts, but not so much big ones...

you wont be smiling when canada finally implements their plan, and 10 million canadians come marching int the U.S. and begin their quest for world domination! nobody would ever expect little ole' canada to ever do anything like start a war, until half half of canada comes charging in with guns. (and ill be the 1 pointing to you all saying "i told u so!")

...u nvr no, it could happen. what else are they using all those guns for?

When this happens, I'll be the guy in Chicago waving a Union Jack wearing bright orange Pumas and wearing an Arsenal jersey. Please provide me with one of the said guns and save a spot on the deployment truck for me.

Seldon2639:
It was a whole lot about impressment. British ships would impress (force) American sailors into working on their ships under the guise of catching people who had escaped their service on English ships. America was none too happy about this, and asked the British to stop. They refused. America proceeded to invade Canada (which was at the time English territory) in order to attempt force the English to knock it off. America proceeded to get its ass kicked up and down the Eastern seaboard, culminating in English troops burning down the White House (burn marks from this are still visible on the Eastern Portico). Fortunately for America, England had other concerns (like, as always, the French) to deal with, and signed a peace treaty which ended the war and stopped impressment.

A few days later, Andrew Jackson won one of the few American victories in the war, which went a long way to securing America's role as a military power. The fact that America's military was able to beat the English military in a single stand up battle was impressive at the time.

So, from the American perspective, it was about a righteous struggle against people being shanghaied into military service for a foreign country. I dunno about other groups, though. I've read a bunch of different accounts though, from both American and foreign sources, and this seems pretty consistent

Life was notably better in the Royal Navy than the Aerican Navy, its true that the only victory at sea was the capture of USS Chesapeake by HMS Shannon, however a British Sailor had a regular rum ration, which the American sailor did not have, and a chance to earn prize money. For those not in the know when an enemy ship was capture it and its contence were sold and the money raised was divided between the crew responsable for its capture, during a time war such as was happerning between France and the rest of Europe at the time a man could make more money fro a few years service in the Navy than he could working as a merchant seaman.

It was a result of this that many exeriance American sailors joined both the Royal Navy and the French Navy, however to maintain the good relasionship with Franch (something that motivated Benadict Arnold thirty years earlier) France agreed to stop pressing experianced sailors.

As for Andrew Jackson's great victory in a rightous struggle, are we talking about the battle in Louisina ere he attack an exhaused army that was low on supplys and ammunition that was heading towards the sea in order to return home.

And finally as for America's role as a military power that did not take place until after the First World War when Wilson's idea of the League of Nations was rejected by Congress, so while the rest of Europe was conforming to the disarmerment brought about by things like the Washington Navel Treaty, America decided arm herself.

You have got to learn the difference between the history you think happened and the history that did happen.

I love how we accept it as FACT that Canada is stockpiling guns to rampage across the world and become the world superpower... Hell, sign me up... I will capture a small uninhabited island in the south Pacific and rule it with an iron fist... And lots of beer...

Khell_Sennet:

tthor:
why does every1 have to always rip on america? :(

Because it's fun
Because they deserve it for all the grief they've caused
Because it's easy
Because it's Friday night and we have nothing better to do
Because Canada's on top
Because its the one country that has pissed off every single nation currently in existence
Because of Bush
Because of Florida
Because they stole our best hockey players
Because we can
Because of Homeland Security
Because of NAFTA
Because they like big butts and they cannot lie
Because we're no longer afraid of them
and of course, Because they do it to us...

Actually--and I say this as someone who lived in Canada and loved it--Canadians have an inferiority complex. They feel this need to somehow be on equal footing with the U.S. just because they border the U.S. I think it bothers them that Canada...is basically irrelevant internationally.

Personally, I don't see the problem with that--they've got a First-World lifestyle with none of the responsibilities. You'd think a country would be happy to be forgotten about by the world when that country has the kind of stable, prosperous civilization Canada has. They get all the benefits of being the U.S.'s closest ally without any of the U.S.'s bad press rubbing off on them.

Let's face it--Canadians rip on America for much the same reason Arthur Dent got pissed about earth being labeled 'mostly harmless'.

Personally, I don't think a country where there was a contest to complete the phrase "As Canadian as..." and the best they could come up with was: "...possible under the circumstances" has the right to rip on *any* other country, but, whatever.

Cheeze_Pavilion:
I think it bothers them that Canada...is basically irrelevant internationally.

... They get all the benefits of being the U.S.'s closest ally without any of the U.S.'s bad press rubbing off on them.

Okies, my last post was largely in jest (ain't hard to tell with me)... THIS one is serious though.

Canada is NOT irrelevant internationally. We are beloved by most countries, friendly or at least neutral with the rest. We have strong political and economic ties with China and Mexico, the friendship of Cuba, and the backing of our British brethren. Where Canada differs from the US is that we go into other nations with our arms wide open, while the US enters most nations with their arms set to full-auto. One thing I have said about Canada for years is that no country dares to fuck with us because most every other nation would be at their doorstep with nukes and spiked dildos before the second shot could be fired.

The last "Terrorist" act committed against Canada was from a radical group of Quebec'ers. That aside, I can't remember a single terrorist attack in my lifetime. Oh I DO remember American pilots bombing the shit out of Canadian troops, an "Accident" it was called...

Lastly, as to being the US's closest ally... It's sad but true, we ARE the closest ally the US has, but the US is not the closest ally CANADA has. Between the NAFTA butt-fuckery, the contention over our ownership of the arctic pass, and this new fishing fiasco... Our relations are going sour.

[quote=Sheppard]I was just wondering what people from around the world think of the War of 1812. quote]
Never heard of it before I saw this post (from Australia)

Khell_Sennet:

Canada is NOT irrelevant internationally. We are beloved by most countries, friendly or at least neutral with the rest.

I didn't say people didn't like Canada; just that Canada...doesn't really figure into many geopolitical issues. Sure you have "political and economic ties with China and Mexico, the friendship of Cuba, and the backing of our British brethren" but none of them are really asking you to do much. Substitute 'Ireland' for 'Cuba' and all of that is true of the U.S. No one is asking Canada to do anything about the issues surrounding Israel, what might happen in the Balkans, managing Russia as it becomes a totalitarian state again...

It's easy to have good relations with China when you don't have any responsibility for what happens to Taiwan. It's...also not something to be proud of, having Cuba as a friend.

I mean, can you imagine *any* situation where people would look to Canada to take *any* action whatsoever on the world political stage? For as good as your friendship is with Cuba, if the U.S. invaded, would anyone look to Canada to take any serious action? Would you as a Canadian feel that if it came down to war, war it is to keep Cuba sovereign? Now think of the U.S.: we've got that kind of relationship with Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan, even this Balkans/Kosovo thing puts us right back in the quagmire that led to WWI, with Russia looking on the Serbs as 'little Slavs' that they have to back.

Speaking of Russia, any chance of Canada being in the vanguard of response to Russia cracking down on its former Republics? What response do you think Canada would feel compelled to undertake if Russia backed a breakaway state in Georgia as a counter-move to the West backing Kosovo? How much was Canada involved with the issue of the Ukraine and the possible poisoning of Yushchenko?

Dude, you guys are basically living as close as one can get in the real world to The Shire--celebrate that kind of luck! The only issue you really have with any other country is if Russia starts going wacky over that whole Arctic thing, and even there your interests coincide with the U.S. in keeping Russia from going wacko.

Where Canada differs from the US is that we go into other nations with our arms wide open, while the US enters most nations with their arms set to full-auto. One thing I have said about Canada for years is that no country dares to fuck with us because most every other nation would be at their doorstep with nukes and spiked dildos before the second shot could be fired.

And one of those places is the U.S. See how tricky it gets when people expect you to show up with "nukes and spiked dildos"? Aren't "nukes and spiked dildos" an example of "arms set to full-auto"?

The last "Terrorist" act committed against Canada was from a radical group of Quebec'ers. That aside, I can't remember a single terrorist attack in my lifetime. Oh I DO remember American pilots bombing the shit out of Canadian troops, an "Accident" it was called...

Americans also killed Pat Tillman. He played football. Americans love football. Don't read anything into that which isn't there..

Lastly, as to being the US's closest ally... It's sad but true, we ARE the closest ally the US has, but the US is not the closest ally CANADA has. Between the NAFTA butt-fuckery, the contention over our ownership of the arctic pass, and this new fishing fiasco... Our relations are going sour.

No, they're really not. Relations going sour is when Russia puts the missile launchers and tanks back in their May parade as a big 'screw you' to NATO after Putin figured out a loophole that allows him to stay in control of Russia for life. Canadian private citizens getting their feathers all ruffled and writing editorials and swamping forums on the internet while continuing to maintain the longest undefended border in human history is not 'relations going sour'.

I mean, I guess to a *Canadian* a strongly-worded, grammatically perfect opinion piece is 'relations going sour'; for an *American*, if they're not hanging a burning effigy of Uncle Sam in the streets of their capital, things are looking good!

In fact, this is exactly what I'm talking about: Canadians...blow everything out of proportion, whether their place in the geopolitical landscape or the War of 1812. I mean really, "Between the NAFTA butt-fuckery, the contention over our ownership of the arctic pass, and this new fishing fiasco..."? You think those are *real* problems that will cause a relationship to 'sour'? We've got N. Korea landing missiles in the Sea of Japan and you think the world turns on a *fishing* dispute?

Really dude--a *fishing* dispute? We had New York dumping medical waste into the ocean that was washing up on New Jersey beaches--our own *states* get into bigger tiffs.

Seriously--Canadians are basically Hobbits (I still have no idea how a bar with only twenty stools and ten tables can afford to have eight taps...and everyone's drinking Canadian from a bottle anyway). Rather than act like that isn't true, enjoy it, rather than getting all Yukio Mishima over it.

Americans should pay more attention to the war of 1812. Afer all, it did give them their national anthem.

That said; People in Britain probably couldnt tell you what the Seven years War was, despite it making Britain the most powerful of the European empires (& bankrupting it in the process, leading to the Stamp duty & other impositions that would ultimately lead to Americas war of Independence). Some wars just arnt as ingrained in the collective conscoiusness as others (like Americas war with Tripoli in 1805 for example ). TBH thats no bad thing.

tthor:

Darth Mobius:

tthor:
war of 1812...when was that?
dam, i really should have payed more attention in history class...

Funnily enough, it DIDN'T take place in 1812...

O_O
now i REALLY gotta stop sleeping in history class,
then i might actually be able to remember stuff like this

Maybe you should learn the meaning of the word 'sarcasm' too

TheMightyAtrox:
I don't think our books should be believed completely so whatever.

Neither should any war film made their ;)

Especially U-571 and anything involving D-Day.

Also, can I point out that Canada as such didn't exist at the time? It was a Colony, thus part of the British Empire! No Canadians were involved in the making of this war!

Khell_Sennet:

tthor:
why does every1 have to always rip on america? :(

Because it's fun
Because they deserve it for all the grief they've caused
Because it's easy
Because it's Friday night and we have nothing better to do
Because Canada's on top
Because its the one country that has pissed off every single nation currently in existence
Because of Bush
Because of Florida
Because they stole our best hockey players
Because we can
Because of Homeland Security
Because of NAFTA
Because they like big butts and they cannot lie
Because we're no longer afraid of them
and of course, Because they do it to us...

Well.. technically America is two continents(North America and South America duh) and since Canada is part of North America so Khell just ripped on Canada too.

The Potato Lord:

Well.. technically America is two continents(North America and South America duh) and since Canada is part of North America so Khell just ripped on Canada too.

thats just arguing semantics. When most people (in the UK & USA at least) referr to America they usually mean the United States of

Fondant:

Anarchemitis:
Wasn't that a war in which alot happened between Russia and the German Empire or something and Tchaikovsky wrote a symphony for it? That's the only 1812 War I care about because to my knowledge nothing really happened from that war between Canada & USA other than having the US invent White House mk. II.

Tchavikovskies 1812 symphony was because, conicedentallly at the time, Napoleon retreated from Russia. I would suggest you wake up and pay more attention to history.

Yeah something between Russia I said. I was a bit foggy on that stuff, but all I care for is that the peice of music is pretty awesome. And Socials class deals with more important things that took place in Canada. (apparently. :/ Like the Winnnipeg General Strike?) So that's why
I didn't know about that one.

I blame Bush.