| (Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4) | |
| 71) | |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 73 Joined: 13 Feb 2008 | |
| 72) | |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 62 Joined: 10 Mar 2008 |
Well the thing about Canadians is that because of our little feelings of inadequacy (since we have such a small population with the second largest land mass) we are mostly kinda nuts. Scary but true. Secondly we are heavily involved in much of the world stage since we make up most of nato's armed forces. We were involved in the whole bosnian, kosovo thing as well as way back in Greece to stop a big ass war there. Hey I am not ripping the US I lived there for 5 years but ya can't say Canada is full of Hobbits I mean that's like saying the US is full of Fat lazy whiny pieces of crap and I would never say that. Thirdly we are one of the richest countries in the world with regards to natural resources as well and grown food supplies. Why does no one screw with us? Well It would hurt everyone else, we are the big friendly guy in the room that smiles and keeps quiet but don't piss him off or he'll smack ya. I mean even though no one wants to admit it the US gets 20% of their fuel from Canada and 30% of their Natural gas comes from us as well. Why ruin that? Just be nice and friendly and we can all get along. |
| 73) | |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 837 Joined: 16 Jan 2008 | If it makes anyone feel better, we press-ganged most people. Including our own chaps. So we weren't just picking on America! ...we were just generally being bastards. Well, what do you expect? We had "empire" in our name. That makes anyone the bad guys. |
| 74) | |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1935 Joined: 25 Jan 2008 | Ok, taking this in segments... First and most importantly, War Monger of Yabucua has definitely shown his colors as a troll and could someone please put him back under his bridge. Nobody else is taking this to a personal level and as close to a flamewar this is, everyone else IS keeping it fairly damned civilized or tongue-and-cheek. About my ripping on America... I do it against three groups of people. The politicians and government for sure, most of my hatred flows their way. Strongly patriotic Americans get some of my bile, and the third group are the American Corporations. I don't hold a grudge against Joe Average American unless he's part of the system, corporate whore, or one of those flag-waving "America is better than the world" zealots. Re: NAFTA. This is the single largest fuckover Canada has ever endured. It really boiled down to the US declaring itself exempt from X Y and Z any time it held the short straw, and rigorous enforcement of the rules of the agreement when it worked in their favor. NAFTA needs to be abolished and remade in a fair, equitable manner. Until this happens I fully support cutting any and all trade with the USA. Cheeze_Pavilion... As to us figuring into geopolitical issues. We have our hands in most everything, but when it comes to martial matters we act through the UN rather than send our own troops directly (unlike a certain nation thinking it's the world police). As to our relations "going sour". We aren't going to protest in the street with burning effigies of Uncle Sam, we are more constructive than that. We're going to stop selling our surplus electricity from Alta/BC and let the northern USA deal with their power shortages. Hell, you guys haven't even been paying us as per the agreement, if I were in charge the power would have been cut LONG ago. With the lumber market as bad as it is now, we'll probably cut off that supply too. China and Japan already make better trade partners for lumber, cutting off dealings with the US market will only improve our standings there. It's like the beef problem, we don't sell Canadian beef to the US anymore (well, less than 2% of what we used to), and we survived and indeed are better for it. |
| 75) | |
Beat Writer  Posts: 145 Joined: 1 Feb 2008 | Is it really any surprise that a War of 1812 discussion turned into a Canada vs US silliness? We have family, friends, and fellow fun gamers in the US - give it a rest will ya? But as far as US policy makers go, I'm pretty sure there are US citizens that think their Prez stinks to high heavens, and I'm all for supporting those US citizens who are true patriots as set out by the example of their founding fathers ... seriously, Clinton got impeached for promiscuity, why they hell hasn't Bush (and Company) been handed his ass yet with far more serious impeachments? When average Joe US citizen deals with average Joe Canadian citizen, I'm willing to be we get along just fine; heck, back to War of 1812, they had militia who refused to invade and even some of them still traded with the British and former French colonies. But what the heck do I care anyways really about the past of some eastern provinces? Did War of 1812 have anything to do with the western or northern parts of North America, what is now California, Oregon, Washington, BC, Alaska, Yukon and so forth? Those are the parts I care about to be honest, I could do with out Ottawa and Washington, and its Monarchs and Presidents, because they seem to care so little for how their policies screw with our lives. I'm with the poster who said we are like Hobbits, I rather like that, lets get drunk and make smoke rings already, I'll be happy knowing that we have Rangers and Wizards looking out for us, and if anyone does come a calling, they'll find Hobbits are far more feisty than they bargained for. Though, if anyone in this big wide world are like Hobbits, it seems like some New Zealanders have that even more down pat than us. Screw it, who wants to rule or police the world anyways? So much hassle, having to send your people off to die all the time. |
| 76) | |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 396 Joined: 22 Dec 2007 |
Mention that on youtube and you are likely to be flamed so hard that even a Half-Life grade suit won't save your arse. Luckily this is the Escapist :) |
| 77) | |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1038 Joined: 7 Mar 2008 |
you do realize that canada has one of the best trained armies and was also one of the best performing armies in both ww1 and ww2 right? there were several places that NO ONE could take or hold, well that is until the canadians came around. yes up in canada we're a bunch of laid back party hardy beer drinkers but you mess with us or our army and you'll be getting your teeth shoved back down your throat. i mean come on we got a unit called the princess pat's light infantry, the first words i hear when i mention that unit is "those guys are crazy" yes we don't police the world, we also don't pick sides when we enter into a conflict zone to peace keep. we go in and stop both sides |
| 78) | |
Paperboy  Posts: 26 Joined: 9 Apr 2008 | Wow, this thread is proving more popular than I thought. I didn't realize that this many gamers cared as much about history as I do(a tear coming to my eye). |
| 79) | |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2323 Joined: 28 Nov 2007 | My main problem with this thread is all the people throwing historical inaccuracies about. First off, Canada as a country didn't even exist in 1812, much less play a direct role in the war. As a territory it did, but only by proximity. Secondly, the war ended in a stalemate, a classic status quo ante bellum, meaning nothing changed after the war. Just clearing that up. Edit: Also, the White House was not completely burned down. A better term is "gutted by fire", as the exterior was made of stone and therefore could not burn. |
| 80) | |
Paperboy Posts: 26 Joined: 9 Apr 2008 |
Yes. When I said Canada, I meant the colony of Canada, not the country. |
| 81) | |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2323 Joined: 28 Nov 2007 |
You weren't the only one saying it. In any event, i meant to try to clarify a few things. |
| 82) | |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1104 Joined: 10 Apr 2007 |
It's not that Canada isn't *involved* in the world stage, it's that Canada isn't embroiled in any major issue in a way that Canada couldn't get out if it didn't want to. Yeah Canada is involved in NATO operations...but, it all reminds me of when Bush went "you forgot about Poland." Also, calling Canadians Hobbits is sooooooo not the same as calling anyone "Fat lazy whiny pieces of crap." Hobbits are liked by everyone, enjoy beer, are well-educated, have a peaceful civil society...like I said, they're basically Canadians. |
| 83) | |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1104 Joined: 10 Apr 2007 |
Yeah, but it is the war that basically created the idea of Canada, so, even if it wasn't a *country* when the War of 1812 started, it was a *people* by the time it ended. So we really can't say that it was a "classic status quo ante bellum"; sure there were no huge territorial changes and no one became a vassal of anyone, but it *did* catalyze the people inhabiting the region that is today Canada to start thinking of themselves as Canadians. It was the war that got the people of, say, Windsor thinking they had more in common with the people of Montreal than they did with the people of Detroit, and that's a big change. I mean, they call the War of 1813 the War of German Liberation even though there was no political entity called Germany, because it got the *peoples* that identified as Germans to start thinking along the lines of nationalism. Same thing with Canadians and the War of 1812. |
| 84) | |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1104 Joined: 10 Apr 2007 |
My point *exactly*. If the largest fuckover you have ever endured is a Free Trade Agreement not working out, you have very little in common with the rest of the world where the 'fuckovers' have to do with shit getting blown up.
I know I know. Just say 'Etobicoke' three times and it'll all be okay!
Um, you're talking about *one war* here, dude. A war Britain (and Poland--can't forget about Poland) *also* went into, so, why all the love for your "British brethren" and none for America? Why the double standard?
Like I said: that may be "going sour" to a Canadian, but to a country that has to plan for Russia shutting off the flow of energy supplies to Europe as a strategic move against the U.S., "surplus electricity from Alta/BC" is some small potatoes. Like I said: Canadians blow things out of proportion--this is a perfect example. You're trying to compare the issue of the Cold War returning to the issue of people in the northern USA having to shut the AC off. |
| 85) | |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1104 Joined: 10 Apr 2007 |
Seriously! You guys had a Prime Minister that joked around about smoking WEED after it was reduced to simply a fineable offense: *that* is the kind of thing Canadians should be giving American a hard time about. |
| 86) | |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1656 Joined: 23 Dec 2007 | Oh the Joys of Canada-USA debating. |
| 87) | |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 618 Joined: 12 Sep 2007 |
Canada did indeed have an excellent military in WW2, although I'd say "one of the best performing" is true only in that there were only a few Allied armies of significant size and impact. I know the Germans were highly impressed with them; several German accounts I've read refer to those "tall Canadians". But remember that Canadians used American tanks and American trucks and rode in American or British ships. (The exception being the early years; after screwing the pooch at Dieppe, Canada veered away from British equipment.) The Canadian Army fought well; it didn't fight alone, but fought as part of the British forces. The Canadian Army was highly respected in WW1 as well, as was the Australian Army, as was the US Army. Mostly it was due to all three nations entering late, when soldiers of the original combatants had been fighting for years. Today Canada has a well-trained army, true - but it's tiny. Cut-backs in Canadian armed forces have reduced its role from guaranteeing Canadian freedom to low-intensity and peace-keeping missions, and even then how many NATO combat missions has Canada carried out within the last decade without US or British assistance? Canada isn't even rated second among New World nations - it's third, behind Brazil. Part of the reason Canada has been able to so draw down its armed forces has been its good relations with other nations - but a huge part is knowing that the USA is just south and will run to their aid if threatened. Canada has, what, roughly one division of land forces? So don't get too cocky. Canada walks softly, but the USA carries the big stick for you. CanadianWolverine - Clinton was impeached for perjury and suborning perjury, both felonies. He was ultimately acquitted because while the US constitution provides for impeachment for "high crimes and misdemeanors", conviction and punishment for impeachment remain political decisions, and in the courts he copped a plea. Bush has to date not committed any "high crimes and misdemeanors". (Though what that has to do with the War of 1812, I've no clue.) |
| 88) | |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1038 Joined: 7 Mar 2008 |
actually no we were going to do that but the american government said they would hassle all canadians going across the border because pot use would be "rampant" and that terrorists grew and sold pot so that makes it evil well after the rampant part i kinda made it up but they us gov did whine and complain about us wanting to decriminalize pot, i do believe it's still legal to carry up to an ounce on your person because there's no laws on the books because of the americans complaining about decriminalizing it decriminalizing means you would get a fine instead of jail time for small amounts of pot, up to an ounce i do believe. funnily enough this has support in the states from prison guards
ummm no canada and austrailia entered ww1 at the same time, both were asked by great britain to join in and by asked i mean they were told you're fighting. in ww2 canada was the first country to declare war on germany based on time zone, and austrailia entered right at the beginning too. so i'm not sure where you got that idea about those 2 countries entering late into the war the americans in both cases stayed "neutral" until provoked too much, and by neutral i mean supplying weapons and guns to which ever side they wanted to win, ie the allies, they were far from neutral and cried when they got attacked for supplying the allies by german and japanese forces. |
| 89) | |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1104 Joined: 10 Apr 2007 |
Yeah, I know--it's a shame that didn't get passed. Actually, it's too bad how Canada has turned slightly more conservative all-around recently. |
| 90) | |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1104 Joined: 10 Apr 2007 |
Thing is we'll never know what Bush has or has not done because everyone that could implicate him knows he'll sign a pardon/commutation for them as long as they keep their mouth shut. The Republicans got Clinton because they made Monica feel like they were going to put her and her parents in jail. The Bush people know he has no respect whatsoever for the Constitution and has no issue with using a Presidential power meant as "a mitigation of the rigor of the law" as imposed by the Judiciary into a weapon to be used against Congress to defend himself. |
| 91) | |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 387 Joined: 23 Dec 2007 | Ah, Americans and the second world war.... firstly, you have us believe that you did all the work..... then we point out that that honour goes to mother russia. The you try and make us believe that the war was fought with all your kit- then we point out- The fact the 'enormous sacrifice' on Omaha beach, horrific as it was, was mainly the fault of your navy. The churchill (a tank which saved a lot of infantrymen in Normandy) The Cromwell (a better tank by far than the Sherman) The fact you never built an effective- anti Panther/Tiger tank destroyer until the M26 in 1945. The fact the A34 Comet was a better tank than the Pershing. The fact the P51 Mustang was an aircraft built to RAF specification in America- translation- not an American aircraft. The fact you never bothered to armour the flight decks of your carriers, thus causing massive casualties amongst your men. The fact you never created a light machine gun. The fact that your army went gallivanting around the picturesque, lightly defended southern part of France and Germany (read- where there was and is nothing of significant value) and seemed to believe that the fighting was that easy everywhere and complained because the Commonwealth and some of your own divisions under Montgmery (who had his flaws, yes, but at least he didn't want to fight a war with the Red mother-fucking Army!) were basically trying to make headway through several tons of lead per ten yards. And to all those who are offended, I apologise. To all those who think I am incorrect- post in a rational, measured response and I will respond in kind. Flame me and I will return the favour, with interest. |
| 92) | |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1104 Joined: 10 Apr 2007 |
I did not know Iwo Jima was an island off of the south coast of France, or that it was either 'picturesque' or 'lightly defended'. See, this is the problem with the whole 'one-upsmanship' with history--there's almost no blanket statement anyone can make that won't run into a solid counter-example. Not to mention, it leaves you open to this sort of thing:
We were too busy CREATING THE ATOM BOMB!!! NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL 'KIT'!!! Sorry--just had to do it. See how silly it all is? |
| 93) | |
Paperboy  Posts: 48 Joined: 30 Dec 2007 |
Don't forget the fact that we (as in the English) had to suffer through nightly bombing raids and hold off the Nazis BY OURSELVES for several months before Hitler got greedy/stupid and invaded Russia. Yes, the Americans sent us weapons and ammo as aid (much of it from WW1 mind you), but troops would have been nice too. Yes, Japan attacked them (although it was not the mainland and Hawaii wasn't even a state then) and it was a terrible loss of life. But the U.S. mainland was never threatened directly and the war was never brought home to the States like it was to us on a regular basis. |
| 94) | |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1104 Joined: 10 Apr 2007 |
Actually America did--there were a lot of Americans that got themselves into the RAF and RCAF: they were called the Eagle Squadrons. And that was a big deal--the Battle of Britain was an attempt to attrition the British air forces down to nothing.
The war really wasn't brought home to *any* of us considering it ended over 60 years ago. In any case, I don't really see where this whole issue is coming from. See how much nationalistic fervor...sucks? All because of those fucking Canadians, starting shit like always... |
| 95) | |
Copy Clerk Posts: 71 Joined: 7 May 2008 |
Corrction on Bloody Omaha it was the Navy that helped the break thru when a pair of destroyers came in close to the beach and brough their guns on the German defences, rather late in the day I should add. The primery reason for so many casulties was that the DD varient of the Sherman tanks that were designated for Omaha, only one made it ahsore, the others all sank. This meant the defences were not broken as quickly as they were on Gold, Juno, Sword and Utah, and a lot of good men died. As for the poor armour on American Carriers, you do have to question which one of melords at the Admiralty thourght at it was a wish move to send a 20 year old battlecruiser in dire need of a refit and upgrading against the most advanced battleship in the world. For those no in the know a battlecruiser is like a battleship but with better engines and fuck all armour. |
| 96) | |
Beat Writer Posts: 145 Joined: 1 Feb 2008 | ... Apparently the War of 1812 has something to do with WW2? My own apologies for bringing up current day events earlier, I was trying to have some common ground with my family, friends, and neighbors to the south about an unpopular president, I just think its silly for US citizens to give Canadian citizens a hard time and visa versa. The War of 1812 has been pretty much gone over in detail already so it seems like this has turned into some sort of us vs them crap thread. Please. |
| 97) | |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 692 Joined: 18 Sep 2007 | I still say that Canada won the War of 1812. We got Laura Secord chocolates out of it; the US had to settle for Dolly Madisons. -- Steve |
| 98) | |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 78 Joined: 21 Nov 2007 |
Would it shock you that the american people think the same way about you on NAFTA? IMO, it's the worst thing that could've ever happened. |
| 99) | |
Beat Writer  Posts: 137 Joined: 9 Apr 2008 | i think the reason no one messes with canada is that canada is just so nice to every nation it meets and is friends with every1, so if any1 ever did mess with canada, over half of the worlds major military powers would step up kick their ass, plus the fact that since nearly every nation is friends with canada, no1 feels like picking a fight with their friend |
| 100) | |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1038 Joined: 7 Mar 2008 |
actually that wasn't until recently, when nafta was going their way they were fine with it, now they've lost a few court cases over their practices and are complaining about it |
| 101) | |
Paperboy Posts: 17 Joined: 14 Feb 2008 |
And we killed 3500 brits in one day( battle of New Orleans), Which is really good stress releif. |
| 102) | |
Paperboy Posts: 48 Joined: 30 Dec 2007 |
Indeed you are correct on the RAF and RCAF and I will admit that this did slip my mind as I was posting earlier. But I would also like to point out that most of those troops came over by choice, not because they were told to. And yes, I am fully aware that no one on the forum was there to experience this war firsthand. And I'm not really trying to toot England's horn about who had the greater sacrifice in the war. It's more or less just a reminder that we had to directly defend against Germany, while both the U.S. and Canada did not have their mainland attacked (minus a Japanese sub shelling the coast of California, but that was one time and I don't believe anyone was seriously hurt). I just have to get a smile about WW2, because the U.S., Canada and France seem to think that WW2 was their shining moment of the 20th century. This indeed is mostly true about two of those nations, but I think we all know which one needs to stop acting like they they didn't get their arse's kicked for the majority of the war... What this has to do with War of 1812 I don't know. If I post again on this thread I'll try to keep it more on topic. |
Right then, I've noticed that lot's of people here are saying "Wow, I should have paid more attention in History" or "We didn't go over that stuff". Well, here's the savior of the internet:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812
Teacher, educate thyself.
(An anti-wikipedia rant can happen in another forum. I think it's fine for discussions like this, because the moment something inaccurate or politically skewed comes up on such a historically significant topic, it is corrected.)