It is supposed to be surprising that someone with "gay" in their nickname gets reported by a lot more Xbox Live users than someone with "rapist" in their nickname?

errorfied:
I think it's ridiculous that everybody is insinuating that he is forcing his sexuality on people, or shouting it out, when it's just a username.

I think it's ridiculous that you're insisting that getting banned from XBox Live is just as bad, if not worse, than actual gay-bashing, which has claimed the lives (REAL lives, not "press START to continue" lives) of many innocent homosexuals.

Tatter:
I think it's ridiculous that you're insisting that getting banned from XBox Live is just as bad, if not worse, than actual gay-bashing, which has claimed the lives (REAL lives, not "press START to continue" lives) of many innocent homosexuals.

I don't think anyone has insinuated that it's worse. The intolerance shown towards homosexuals on Live, however, including this double standard seems like it fosters an air of hostility that could pour out from internet frustrations over into 'real life'.

Niniux:
I don't think anyone has insinuated that it's worse. The intolerance shown towards homosexuals on Live, however, including this double standard seems like it fosters an air of hostility that could pour out from internet frustrations over into 'real life'.

You mean like how Grand Theft Auto fosters an air of violence that pours out from in-game shootings into real life extra lives?

You must have a really interesting newsletter.

phmsin:
Innocent until proven guilty.

Actually, in the US, isn't guilty until proven innocent?

I was just passively reading all of the posts, here, when I decided that I HAD to sign up for an account. I had to wait for it to get verified, so I poured some whiskey, waited an hour, and here I am. Ahem.

I'm glad an actual gay gamer posted here because I was starting to marvel at the apathetic stances people were taking here in the guise of being "progressive".

There are those who hate gays, and then those who support. Then, there are those who claim that "they are okay with it, but they don't understand why homosexuals shove it down their throats." To generalize and say something like, "That's one thing I don't understand about homosexuals" is a passive form of homophobia.

So, okay. I'm a gay gamer. The first point I want to make is as a gay man. Pride is not something you can quantify nor can you take those values and apply it to any other pride. When I see black pride, I hear the voice of a community that has been oppressed and suddenly feels empowered enough to speak up. I grew up going to Catholic school telling me that gays are going to hell. Oh, sorry..."FAGS" are going to hell. Why the hell would I *choose* a life of oppression? I didn't. I tried to be straight. Don't work. After I came out and stopped lying about it, I felt empowered, honest, and surrounded by a community who was there to help me through some dark times. And no - no sex with them, for those who think being gay is just about "sex wit guyz".

Now, as a gay gamer. There is something that no one is talking about here on this forum. Mainstream gay culture is just as vapid as mainstream hetero culture. And unfortunately, gay people adopt some of the most sexist attitudes and claim that they can do so because they break the rules, themselves. This makes a lot of gay men ridicule those gay men who engage in anything remotely masculine.

I love having gay friends along with having straight friends. It feels unifying. Yeah, we're all just people...blah blah blah - but there are things about you that you like to share with like people. So, when I meet gay people who look down on me for being so into video games and call me a nerd (hello, welcome to the '80s), me calling myself a gay gamer is kind of my middle finger to them. It's also a term that me and my gay gamer friends (male & female) love to call ourselves.

Yes, this post was about the gamertag. I know. But this thread has drifted off into some pretty ignorant and immature spouting and I couldn't not post.

And to add to AndiGravity's point (if I didn't already), it took a long time for many people to recognize gay-bashing as a hate crime. It took long enough for California to overturn the ban on gay marriage. It was banned once, and it could very well happen again.

The World Health Organization still classifies homosexuality as a disease (302.0).

Families still send their children to conversion houses if they come out of the closet. Institutions that use electro-shock therapy if they show any attraction for the same sex. In THIS day and age!

Reverend Fred Phelps has a major site called GODHATESFAGS.COM that is really active and once in a while, I'll see a bumper sticker with that URL on it.

http://bp1.blogger.com/_dI8g2OtbqcA/R2qE4WqY1JI/AAAAAAAAAKc/-xQ8AstcQtc/s1600-h/phelpsigns.jpg

Now, tell me that we should just get over it and that life's just not fair. It's so easy to say, "I'm okay with it. Get over it" when you have most of the nation voting to have you silenced.

When I say that I'm proud to be gay, and I think I speak for most gay people at this point, I'm saying that I'm proud to have made it through being disowned by family, kicked out of school, beaten up on the street, and STILL being able to say "I'm gay." THAT'S where the pride comes from. If you think it's as puerile as "proud that you like to pound hairy bum" or "so you like d00dz - big deal", then you probably didn't read this post, anyway.

Anyway, I can sleep, now that I've posted.

Attack away.
HP
-----------------
www.hpmendoza.com

hp:

There are those who hate gays, and then those who support. Then, there are those who claim that "they are okay with it, but they don't understand why homosexuals shove it down their throats." To generalize and say something like, "That's one thing I don't understand about homosexuals" is a passive form of homophobia.

ok but there is a thing about not wanting it shoved down your throat. i don't shove the fact that i'm straight and a white male down your throat. both things are equally bad.

great your gay, that's wonderful. i just don't feel like having it shoved down my throat and most gay ppl i know aren't doing that and frankly find it rude to do as well. i know several gay ppl and have several friends that are gay and none of them ever broadcast it or force it on everyone

phmsin:

Innocent until proven guilty.

Microsoft does posses that right to ask but I don't think that the gamertag in question is upsetting enough to warrant an inquiry by Microsoft, let alone banning it.

Because no one knows the context or the positive or negative intent behind the name, it should be given as much respect as any other gamertag.

ok here's the section of the terms of use for xbox live

8. USE OF COMMUNICATION FACILITIES
Your use of the Service is subject to the Code of Conduct. You also agree not to do any of the following while being connected to the Service:
...
-Create a Gamertag or use text other profile fields that may offend other members. This includes comments that look, sound like, stand for, hint at, abbreviate, or insinuate any of the following: profane words/phrases, sexually explicit language, sexual innuendo, hate speech (including but not limited to racial, ethnic, or religious slurs), illegal drugs/controlled substances, or illegal activities.
...

yeah according to that he's guilty plain and simple, while gay CAN mean happy and such, that definition has fallen out of use and it only has one use which is meaning a homosexual

here's the link with the full toa
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/legal/legal-tou.htm

Zis is vhy I play ze PS3 and dont play ze fuckin xbox! Too many goddam hypocrites! Unt za vii is a much much better system for people of all races unt sexualities. Even Jews can play zat system without fear of reprimand. Fucking Xbox Live employees unt Microshat in general are racist unt homophobic pig dogs, unlike us germans!

Look, I'm not against people being gay. I have had a friend who was bi, and he was one of the most fun people I've ever met to be around. However, this guy (topic creator, not my friend) made a gamertag that violated the TOS, got reported for it, and got banned. Obviously, some people got offended by this. It is a pretty minor violation, but if you saw someone with a gamertag of "WhitePwer", you'd want them banned for racism. Even though they didn't say anything about other races being inferior, the implication is still there. And people are offended in many places by homosexuality, so don't blame Microsoft, blame America.

HP:
Your post seems extremely defensive when a vast majority of the prior posters were in support, and you've even gone so far as to claim that many of these aren't actually so. Don't get me wrong, people will try and misrepresent their values to not seem close-minded, but some people actually do believe what they've said.

The point that most people seem to be trying to get across is that we don't care what your values are particularly, but more that a gamer tag isn't the place to be presenting these. I'm many things: a scientist, a musician, an Australian, a heterosexual male, an agnostic... - but none of those things define me completely. If I go in to a game with the tag "Hiphopfan" I know that I'll just get ripped on for hours by some loser metal fan from Ohio. Don't get me wrong, the backlash for listening to hip hop is obviously going to be smaller than for being gay, but it's more the principle - if you know your choice is right, it shouldn't matter what others think about it, and no matter what the choice someone will always disagree.

I know you've said you don't consider it a "choice" but I'd have to disagree. Just on the basis that genetics thus far has shown that although we might get a certain propensity to develop some traits (e.g. boldness, athleticism), the genes aren't a fate line - choices and changes still happen. But hey, that's just my opinion.

A lot of the vocal support that seems to occur for highly volatile matters like this is largely caused by the oppression experiened. Unfortunately, being oppressed to high levels like being homosexual (or for another example, of a racial minority) does provide a huge deal of stress, and by constantly being on the defence it becomes the status quo - hence the defensive nature I mentioned earlier. It also causes us to defend that one facet of ourselves stronger than ever (which is pretty much what you've explained - that you feel that you've earnt the right, or have a need, to continue to express that part of yourself that you've fought so strongly to defend). That's, in my opinion, the reason why most whites don't care about being called "cracker," or why smaller disagreements don't cause the same response. We don't hear it that much, so we're still able to not care about their opinion. Just remember that as much as as anyone has a right to defend their choices, in any matters where opinion is involved there will never be a consensus. Have pride, put your beliefs out there - but don't be surprised when there's backlash. Everyone gets it, not just those making your choice.

In regards to whether "gay" should be on the offensive list for gamertags, it only comes down to the complaints it gets. That's a whole 'nother argument about society's opinions in general. But I will say this - the N-word is a form of endearment and self-identity to some of the black community (e.g. rappers). Despite that, it's still considered offensive due to it's other uses, and I have no problem with it being blocked for that reason. Penis is another word which is blocked in most media. It's a natural thing that about 50% of the population have. But it's too sexual for a community without any real age limitations. Gay is blocked because of it's offensive uses and it's sexual nature, not because of any bias against the choice itself. And for those who have an issue with gay being used as an insult, just remember - those same 14yr olds using it as an insult were also using liking girls as an insult when they were 6. Just ignore them, let them mature, and then when they can actually understand what they're saying, their opinion will mean something. If they're older than 14, well hey, remember that we all have our opinions (or maybe they're just still 14yrs old mentally).

On another point, I have to ask how much of the uproar about "TeaBaggah" and all the other offensive names not yet blocked has been viewed with an unbiased eye. All we know is that "gaygamer" was blocked, and they're not. But have those been reported as offensive? How many times was "gaygamer" reported? How long did it take for gaygamer's reports to be acted upon, versus how long it's been for any reports about the other gamertags? It's easy to say "they're still in use" and cry mistreatment when no-one has bothered enough to do something about fixing that.

Tatter:
You mean like how Grand Theft Auto fosters an air of violence that pours out from in-game shootings into real life extra lives?

You must have a really interesting newsletter.

Yeah, and Grand Theft Auto is meant to be a game and supposed to be more of an escape from real life. Being a game, most rational people realize that it does not translate over to real life. Whereas, I can see 12 year olds, after hearing almost everyone gay-bash on Live, believing that it is acceptable to do the same.

And, cleverlymadeup, what exactly is shoving it down your throat? Is just mentioning their sexuality shoving it down your throat? What about you mentioning you have a girlfriend or saying "Hey, that girl is hot." That would be shoving it down their throat, too, would it not?

As far as quoting the terms of service, I do not see where this gamertag violated it. I guess a case could be made for sexual innuendo but I do not see how mentioning that you are romantically attracted to members of the same sex is any sort of sexual innuendo.

Edited to add: It is about as much of a sexual innuendo as someone having the gamer tag, "ProudFather985". According to the established standards, both are hinting towards a sexual act of copulation. This whole argument is just retarded.

Create a Gamertag or use text other profile fields that may offend other members. This includes comments that look, sound like, stand for, hint at, abbreviate, or insinuate any of the following: profane words/phrases, sexually explicit language, sexual innuendo, hate speech (including but not limited to racial, ethnic, or religious slurs), illegal drugs/controlled substances, or illegal activities.

Relevent text bolded for your convenience.

theres a phrase ive seen on a billboard that comes to mind "people are gay, get over it".
people are different, there are guys who like guys, girls who like girls and everything inbetween. why is "ok" for guys to tolerate lesbians but not gays? both are two of the same gender liking and loving each other, so why is it not "ok"?

ill admit the reasons why you would like what a gay guy does is questionable(i question it myself most of the time too), i dont understand why they like it up the butt or whatever but in the end thats their perogative and im cool with that. just let them do whatever, they arent hurting you are they? and in the case of religion clouding your already superior judgement(yeah right)wake up and realise this is the 21st century, i say the same about muslims and their stone age notions of women not being able to do anything, but thats a rant for another day(or thread), people are different, being insecure about something that is not hard to understand just goes to show how stupid you are and how ignorant your thinking is.

they're gay, get over it.
(im not gay btw lol, as you may or may not have guessed)

First of all, this is fucked up, bigtime, i mean why in the hell would someone hate gay people, unless they've been RAPED, then i could understand it but other than that, they should be as gay as they want just not with ME...and Jooshie, "boo fuckin hoo"? Whats ur problem man, i mean maybe you cant understand the scope of a problem like this, that a gay person is discriminated against cuz of what he does at home one HIS time, hes not hurting anyone, but hes being hurt, does that sound right to you? or do you just not care.

{EDIT} fuck you Jooshie

JC - Do you have any gay people in your life? Like REALLY in your life? Ask them when they "chose" to be gay. Homosexuality is not a choice. You did not choose to be heterosexual. Unfortunately, the notion that it is a choice was STARTED by people who thought it was wrong and "alternative" in the first place to make it easier to condemn. Again, citing Reverend Fred Phelps.

I remember in high school, this one girl was accused of "choosing" to be gay because by senior year, she came out of the closet. A lot of people said, "Great, now she's a dyke." Um, no. She was just scared to be called a dyke until now.

And I joined not to defend the gamertag, but to get some insight on why people are being so glib. Please - just concede for a second that to say that being proud is going to have it's backlash is just a little glib. Of course, it's going to have backlash. What do we do? Just sit there and take it like a slap on the hand? That's the problem. When you say it like that, that's like saying: "Oh, you're bleeding? That's what you get for running with scissors."

Anyway, I'm awake now, and I'm sobered by the posts. And, original post about gamertags aside, I'm realizing that this thread is being carried by people with really different upbringings and beliefs. The only points I want to make are:

1) Homosexuality is not a choice.
2) Saying that "GAY" is about guys having sex with other guys is about as glib as saying "MOTHERHOOD" is about girls having sex with guys to make babies.
3) If I'm sounding defensive, it's because gay rights, at this moment, are really touchy. Especially in California. Let's see what happens for gays and lesbians come November.

HP
-----------------
www.hpmendoza.com

Whereas, I can see 12 year olds, after hearing almost everyone gay-bash on Live, believing that it is acceptable to do the same.

Hey everybody, Jack Thompson's here!

If Killing Policemen in GTA doesn't make you do it, I severely doubt shouting at people makes you 'gaybash'.

Yes, you're gay. Yes, you're proud of being gay. Whoop.

I'm a white heterosexual near-Christian and I still get stomped on by futile laws, hatred and prejudice. But I don't carry the flag saying because of "blah" I am being persecuted.

And, just to put in a case, I was turned down for a job because I wasn't gay.

As to hp, I know a few people who have 'discovered' they're gay long long after they discovered sex. A few who were even married.

There's a lot of people getting severely hurt these days, by a number of things, and I'm sure that Stonewall etc. would be far better off putting work into bringing forth EQUAL rights rather than dealing with someone who couldn't read the rules.

hp:

I remember in high school, this one girl was accused of "choosing" to be gay because by senior year, she came out of the closet. A lot of people said, "Great, now she's a dyke." Um, no. She was just scared to be called a dyke until now.

well i know more than one girl who has claimed they are bi or lesbian just to be different, they aren't tho. much like i've known more than one girl to claim she was raped when really she got drunk and probly wouldn't have had sex with the guy if she was sober

hp:

And I joined not to defend the gamertag, but to get some insight on why people are being so glib. Please - just concede for a second that to say that being proud is going to have it's backlash is just a little glib. Of course, it's going to have backlash. What do we do? Just sit there and take it like a slap on the hand? That's the problem. When you say it like that, that's like saying: "Oh, you're bleeding? That's what you get for running with scissors."

Anyway, I'm awake now, and I'm sobered by the posts. And, original post about gamertags aside, I'm realizing that this thread is being carried by people with really different upbringings and beliefs. The only points I want to make are:

1) Homosexuality is not a choice.
2) Saying that "GAY" is about guys having sex with other guys is about as glib as saying "MOTHERHOOD" is about girls having sex with guys to make babies.
3) If I'm sounding defensive, it's because gay rights, at this moment, are really touchy. Especially in California. Let's see what happens for gays and lesbians come November.

ok no it's not about the person being gay, sure he is gay, good for him hope it works out

the issue is he broke the rules and got caught and NOW he's using that to grandstand and make a spectacle of this

ok to draw a parallel

this is like a black guy speeding and getting caught. he gets caught going over the speed limit by a white cop. he now claims that he was pulled over the cop was being racist.

and before you try and say it's different, you agreed to follow the rules of the road when you got your license much like you agreed to the terms of use when signing up for xbox live.

the fact is the guy would be pulled over cause he's SPEEDING not because he's black

the guy got his gamertag changed because it was offensive to others AND it broke the toa of xbox live and not because they have an agenda against gay ppl

they also banned a guy's gamertag of richard gaywood and that's his legally given name cause it violated the toa, on couple points the other being personal info in the gamertag

as for someone who mentioned about how long it takes, it's a few weeks for them to ban gamertags or force the change

...I want to have my last name be Gaywood....just for laughs, mind you.

maybe i should have been clearer(well more clear...w/e) i agree with cleverlymadeup, while he did break the rules and that's why he was banned, but other people getting away with racist names, names filled with sexual inuendo, etc, etc, etc are still everywhere, i personally think maybe microsoft should spend a bit of all that money they have and hire workers to filter through the gamertags already existing, and to moniter new gamertag requests, and turn down ALL racist, sexist...etc names and ban all existing ones, or at the very least give them the option to change them and not get banned.i know im about to be presented with a million reasons this wont work, but its just an idea, ideas can become actions if enough people think and care about it.

jockslap:
i personally think maybe microsoft should spend a bit of all that money they have and hire workers to filter through the gamertags already existing, and to moniter new gamertag requests, and turn down ALL racist, sexist...etc names and ban all existing ones, or at the very least give them the option to change them and not get banned.

i can answer both those pretty easily

there is a team that does go thru gamertags, bungie used to have their own team and they still might, it's not an instantaneous thing either, it takes weeks sometimes

the issue will always exist is if they understand what they are saying, something like "cocklover" might get banned right away but "TB4GG4" might slip thru once or twice, all you can really do is report them again, if they see enough reports they will ban the name

also when your name is banned you can still connect, they usually do a forced name change, which means you just have to change your gamertag and you can connect

I don't know if this has been discussed yet, but read this article (link below).

http://www.gametrailers.com/viewnews.php?id=5967

A man by the name of Richard Gaywood (that's his actual name), was banned because his last name (the name his father had, and his father before him, etc, etc) has the word "gay" in it. This is, I think, what "rhasiir" was talking about more then anything. Abuse of power.

TheNecroswanson:
He was proud of his sexuality and put it into his gamertag and so he deserves it? I don't agree with advertising lifestyles over internet, especially not vdeo gaming, but that he was singled out and mistreated in such a way is none-the-less unacceptable. If advertising your homosexuality is against Microsoft's terms of usage, then it's bias, and targeting homsexuality if "Rapist 3467" and "N***er H8ur" are not similarly banned.
I will not lay claims to the Gayergamer being some sort of troll, but he had to have known what he was getting into. And I for one am proud of him for taking a stand, and saying, "I have put up with this, this man has a racist name, give me mine back."
All of you who have sat here and said he has deserved it, or he is a troll, or that he is nothing but a hypocrit, are immature. Laying some sort of judgement to the character of a man whom you don't even know, have just heard of, who has been blatantly mistreated by a company he is paying, singled out, and chastised, when so many others that YOU KNOW have been viewed, are left alone.
I have reported many a gamertag, and none have been dealt with.

First: I don't have XBL. I haven't read the EULA, I don't know the rules.

The stuff I put in bold was to make a point. When you say you're proud of the Gaymer in question you are also making a character assumption, even if it is one that casts him in a positive light. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but making that assumption and then turning around to insult others who have put forth equally valid and almost certainly more likely theories, even if not as well stated as yours, puts you on the same level as the rest of us.

Any tag dealing with racism, sexuality, politics, etc. is best avoided in an online environment unless that's what you're there for. Regardless of whether this was a troll or an expression of pride it was misplaced. Microsoft should take care of these tags but, unfortunately, are far outnumbered, especially when you consider that it's a global system with hundreds of new users every day. At least. I don't want to take away that responsibility from them, but it's somewhat understandable if XBL isn't up to society's standards.
{EDIT}
Found some more quick points I'd like to cover.
-Homosexuality is not a choice. There have been studies of homosexual animals in the wild, and at one point there was a study that attempted to breed homosexuality out of sheep(which shouldn't have been difficult)overseas somewhere.
-It was classified as a psycological disorder for quite some time, but was removed from the DSM (the official book of what's crazy) somtime in the 70's or 80's.
-Electroshock therapy is so rarely used, and usually only on violent residents in mental wards. I'm sure I read somewhere further up that people were shocking homosexuals, but I can't believe that that is a current program being run by any credible mental institution.
-While playing a fictional game may be easy to dismiss as having any influences on how a person acts, talking to people is different. Even if it's people you can't see the fact is that these are real people, and you have some understanding of that. It doesn't matter whether you know them or not. A real person's opinion will have a much greater impact on what and how you do than a videogame, and the more people in agreement the stronger the effect is.

Mstrswrd:

A man by the name of Richard Gaywood (that's his actual name), was banned because his last name (the name his father had, and his father before him, etc, etc) has the word "gay" in it. This is, I think, what "rhasiir" was talking about more then anything. Abuse of power.

while it's technically a false positive, there's a couple things going on with that name

1 it's personally identifiable info (against the eula/tos)
2 they must think of the general public's perception, while yes some might say "that is really his name" most will think "that's offensive"

much like if someone used a name LovesDuMaurierFags while the word fag is also slang for cigarette and they are refering to the dumarier brand, most ppl would get upset by the usage of the word fag

so this isn't an abuse of power on m$'s part it's ppl breaking the rules and being caught for it and crying foul because they were caught

would honestly this be an issue if the person's name was NaziLover, BDSMguy, CaulkLover or SlaveMaster? no it wouldn't

There are people on xbox live who will harass you and make your gaming experience suck just because you are winning...so best not to try and give the reprobates anything else to work with. I have no objections to homosexuality but will say I find its inclusion in his name less than tasteful. And there is no need to point out my username because the Sexual Harassment Panda is the anti sexual harassment spokespanda.

How can you be 'proud' of your sexuality anyway? Surely it's just there.

thebobmaster:
Create a Gamertag or use text other profile fields that may offend other members. This includes comments that look, sound like, stand for, hint at, abbreviate, or insinuate any of the following: profane words/phrases, sexually explicit language, sexual innuendo, hate speech (including but not limited to racial, ethnic, or religious slurs), illegal drugs/controlled substances, or illegal activities.

Relevent text bolded for your convenience.

Okay, now I understand how he could be banned. But a lot of people seem to be saying that this guy made a conscious choice to violate the terms of agreement. I don't believe that is true. I'm sure the guy wasn't trying to think up a name that would be offensive to people, he was just trying to choose a name that expresses himself. I guess he assumed that people wouldn't be offended just at the mention that he is a homosexual.

I mean, according to that, my previous example, "ProudFather985" could very well be considered offensive to people who aren't physically capable of fathering children. The amount just happens to be smaller than the amount of people who are offended by homosexuality. I mean, should someone really be banned for an offensive name if the name shouldn't really be offensive?

I guess that's the thing I can't get over. In my mind, for something to be offensive, it has to be making an attack on something, which I clearly don't see this name doing.

And, as far as the Jack Thompson parallels... Please. I don't think people ENCOURAGING intolerence is the same as simulated violence in a video game designed for entertainment by adults. In my mind, a lot of the banter on XBox Live encourages the same type of intolerence for homosexuals as listening to KKK propaganda could influence 13 year olds to discriminate against non-whites.