Yesterday, my mother picked up the family dog from the groomer and stopped by the grocery store.
A woman stopped my mother and told her, "I have your lisence number." She was furious about her having left the dog in the car. My mother just kept on walking.
All she got was some grapes, salad greens, and dressing, which took a maximum of ten minutes. It was seventy degree weather with the windows down.

We both know that you shouldn't leave a dog in the car, but did she really desirve the repremanding?

I wouldn't call that animal cruelty, especially if it's only seventy degrees. Would that woman rather your mom drive all the way home, drop the dog off, and then drive all the way back to the store, buy the few groceries, and then drive all the way back home?

Reminds me of my Strange Offences thread lol.

I think it's fine if the windows are open.

Stammer:
Reminds me of my Strange Offences thread lol.

Hooray for shameless thread advertising! /boundless joy

Johnn Johnston:
Hooray for shameless thread advertising! /boundless joy

/cry

Nope. The woman who accosted your mom is a nosy idiot. They're a fairly common breed, but not recognized by the AKC. The best policy is to ignore them. They thrive on attention as they feel it validates their often outrageous claims.

Of course it isn't. The windows were down. That alone ruins nearly any attempt at claiming animal cruelty. It was no worse then leaving the dog outside in the yard for nearly any length of time.

In some countries it is against the anti cruelty laws to leave a dog in the car no matter what.

But this is just another example of a person stubbornly sticking to the letter of the law, even to the detriment of the spirit that the law was intended.

The problem is, when you question the law in this situation, you have to start setting exact limits. "You can leave the dog in the car if the temperature is 73.6 degrees F or less." Then you'll get cases where people do this and then say "Oh, it [i]was[\] that temperature when I left him in there, the temperature just climbed60 degrees while I was in the store.

You'll also have to set limits for how long you can go into the store, any time longer than that and its a crime. Of course, the amount of minutes depend on the heat of the day. Then you have to factor in the open window value. How open were the windows? Open enough that the dog can stick his head out, or just cracked a bit to let air in?

Do I think your mother should be reprimanded by that woman? I dunno, I don't think there was any cruelty to the dog, but still, rules are rules. Once reasonable people start bending the rules in reasonable limits, like your mother did, then stupid people start taking it too far.

Only 70 degrees with the windows down for 10 minutes, she could've done alot worse.

What kind of moran(sic) brings a dog to the supermarket?

Leave the dog at home--where it belongs. It's not a person, it doesn't WANT to go shopping (even if it may like the car-ride), and it doesn't get the same "Hey look, I've got a dog, I'm speshul" feeling that you do being seen all over town with it.

Ok, I have no clue how warm 70 Farenheit is, I assume its Farenheit, because at 70 Celcius, it's not just cruelty, it's murder...

But no, that's not animal cruelty if the windows are down and it's not an extended duration. We're all assuming the dog would not be allowed in the store, so the only OTHER option available would be to take the pooch out of the car and tie him up to a post by the entrance... So now we have a dog in the same heat, but now in a position where he can be kidnapped or abused by strangers. Oh yeah, much better choice. /sarcasm

Edit:

Mach10:
Leave the dog at home--where it belongs. It's not a person, it doesn't WANT to go shopping (even if it may like the car-ride), and it doesn't get the same "Hey look, I've got a dog, I'm speshul" feeling that you do being seen all over town with it.

Actually some dogs can't be left alone, either they trash the house/yard/neighborhood or they may (like my parents' dog) suffer from psychological issues. My parents' dog has been abandoned by her previous owners three times, so she gets real depressed and sulks when she's left alone. She goes to work with my dad, she stays home on days my mother is off work, and only is left alone when they're only going to be out for a couple hours. May sound like they baby the pooch, but you don't want to see her when she's in a sulk.

Khell_Sennet:
Ok, I have no clue how warm 70 Farenheit is, I assume its Farenheit, because at 70 Celcius, it's not just cruelty, it's murder...

But no, that's not animal cruelty if the windows are down and it's not an extended duration. We're all assuming the dog would not be allowed in the store, so the only OTHER option available would be to take the pooch out of the car and tie him up to a post by the entrance... So now we have a dog in the same heat, but now in a position where he can be kidnapped or abused by strangers. Oh yeah, much better choice. /sarcasm

I'm in a Celcius-measured area as well. Since my ex only knew Fahrenheit, though, I often had to try converting just to allow her to know. I know that 100 degrees is livable. It's hot, but livable. I think 90 F is around 30 C, so about 70 F would be around 15-20 C? Hold on, I'mma go look it up... Yeah, it's 21 degrees C. That's not all that hot at all...

Yeah, 70 F/ 21 C really isn't that hot, in fact its quite comfortable for normal human beings. However, in a car, even with the windows down, it can still get quite stuffy and hotter than outside in a car with the windows down.

I really doubt the dog would even mind being confined to the car in pleasant temperatures, but think of the stupid people who can't figure out how hot is too hot?

When I'm not sauntering around China, dodging assassination attempts, I live in Los Angeles. Let me tell you, people there are pretty stupid as a whole. Someone will see that 70 in a car is ok, then they'll leave they're dog in the car, heck, keep the baby in there for company too.

What the law is is a safety net. Its the same thing as wearing a seatbelt, most good drivers don't need them, but its a good idea because there are stupid people out there who like to crash things. Likewise, you need to not leave living creatures in a car because someone will end up "doing it wrong" and something ends up dead with no legal penalties.

If a dog dies in a car with the windows down, that's not animal cruelty - it's natural selection.

For any who want it, here's a link to an excellent free conversion program. It's basically a DOS-level executable, but you can create a shortcut for it and then put the shortcut in your start - programs menu and/or on the desktop and run it like any Windows program. It also runs on Linux or Unix using an emulator like Wine. Highly recommended for science or engineering students or professionals or if you just want to know what those annoying Yanks and nattering on about.

http://joshmadison.com/article/convert-for-windows

It's hardly a big deal if it's not an extreme temperature, if it's only for 10 minutes and all the windows a down. If I saw that situation, I wouldn't bat an eyelid.

Erana:
Yesterday, my mother picked up the family dog from the groomer and stopped by the grocery store.
A woman stopped my mother and told her, "I have your lisence number." She was furious about her having left the dog in the car. My mother just kept on walking.
All she got was some grapes, salad greens, and dressing, which took a maximum of ten minutes. It was seventy degree weather with the windows down.

We both know that you shouldn't leave a dog in the car, but did she really desirve the repremanding?

When it is 70 degrees outside. No, it isn't. Cruelty like all things is situational.

What's worse, keeping your dog in a car with the windows rolled down when it's 70 degrees out or those morons who carry their dogs in their over sized purse!?!?

No, leaving the dog in the car is not animal cruelty...I mean logic even driving your dog home from the groomers would be animal cruelty I don't see why the car being stationary makes a difference.

as for getting your dog groomed however I think that's a higher case of animal cruelty at least in my opinion.

Mach10:
What kind of moran(sic) brings a dog to the supermarket?

Leave the dog at home--where it belongs. It's not a person, it doesn't WANT to go shopping (even if it may like the car-ride), and it doesn't get the same "Hey look, I've got a dog, I'm speshul" feeling that you do being seen all over town with it.

He said they had picked up the dog at the groomer, and stopped on the way home.
Besides, 70F is fine for a dog, specially with windows rolled down.

werepossum:
If a dog dies in a car with the windows down, that's not animal cruelty - it's natural selection.

Um, no. The dog was put in the vehicle and is not able to get out. That's not natural selection. If the dog ran away from its master, and died due to anything not directly human-done THEN it would be natural selection.

Spinwhiz:
What's worse, keeping your dog in a car with the windows rolled down when it's 70 degrees out or those morons who carry their dogs in their over sized purse!?!?

Second! Gods I hate seeing people tote miniature dogs around like a cellphone or handbag.

The woman had no idea how long your mum was going to be gone for, so her reaction doesn't seem paticularly extreme to me.

But in that context, nah. I'm more concerned about the idea of professional grooming for the dog (you are supposed to do that your self!).

If the windows were down than definitely not, and I'm very pro-animal rights. And especially if it was only about 20 degrees, that's below room temperature for christ's sake.

Spinwhiz:
What's worse, keeping your dog in a car with the windows rolled down when it's 70 degrees out or those morons who carry their dogs in their over sized purse!?!?

yeah luckily those ppl aren't allowed into stores in canada, only helper dogs are allowed

cleverlymadeup:

Spinwhiz:
What's worse, keeping your dog in a car with the windows rolled down when it's 70 degrees out or those morons who carry their dogs in their over sized purse!?!?

yeah luckily those ppl aren't allowed into stores in canada, only helper dogs are allowed

Trust me, laws don't stop the stupid. I see those pocketpooches in the mall all the time.

Geeze, that woman has the sort of knee-jerk reaction you'd expect from PETA.

I'd say that leaving the dog in the car with the windows down was irresponsible, but not cruel, per se. What if the dog jumped out? How big a dog are we talking here?

I had a lady who drove by my house every day that called animal control on us because my dog didn't have a doghouse; at least not in the section of my yard that she could see. What he actually had was a section underneath the add-on to my kitchen that my dad had boarded the side to- so he actually had a dog-mansion, lol. Animal control was like "Well, sorry she's retarded." And left, then she came back the next day and forced us to take this dog house. I nearly bitch-slapped her. So we set the thing in the middle of the yard where she could plainly see my dog laying next to it, refusing to sit in such a tiny thing. And THEN she had the nerve to tell us that when he died, she wanted the dog house back.

People like that are so much worse than people who don't want to pay $4.15 a gallon to drive their dog home before making a quick stop at the store. I'd have done the same thing, to be perfectly honest. I also would have berated the woman who mistakenly thought the dog was there for more than half an hour, but that's beside the point.

Khell_Sennet:

werepossum:
If a dog dies in a car with the windows down, that's not animal cruelty - it's natural selection.

Um, no. The dog was put in the vehicle and is not able to get out. That's not natural selection. If the dog ran away from its master, and died due to anything not directly human-done THEN it would be natural selection.

I'm assuming a dog can escape from a car with the windows down unless the dog is very, very stupid. (Or it's Paris Hilton's dog and rightfully seeking the eternal bliss of oblivion.)

Copter400:
Geeze, that woman has the sort of knee-jerk reaction you'd expect from PETA.

I'd say that leaving the dog in the car with the windows down was irresponsible, but not cruel, per se. What if the dog jumped out? How big a dog are we talking here?

Sssssshhh! They'll hear you! and throw red paint on you!
Actually, that's a point, why is it PETA never chucks red paint over bikers in leathers?

personaly i think your cercomstance was fine. they just have the law becasue in some areas like my hellish home miami, it is actully fatal for a dog to be in the car. the issue is that some peopel cant tell the differnce.

Lazzi:
personaly i think your cercomstance was fine. they just have the law becasue in some areas like my hellish home miami, it is actully fatal for a dog to be in the car. the issue is that some peopel cant tell the differnce.

ROFL... In my home town of Edmonton, 6+ months of the year, leaving a dog OUTSIDE the car can be fatal. We hit -40 before windchill last winter, record low before windchill in Edmonton is -49 Celsius (That's -45 Fahrenheit). That's WITHOUT the wind, WITH wind, -60?

TheNecroswanson:
Why did she bring her dog to the grocery store in the first place? From my experience, dogs won't even eat vegetables.

I know a few that will eat carrots... not that that really relates to the issue.
But I see nothing wrong with leaving a dog in a car with the windows down, when it is a comfortable temperature outside, and the dog cannot go inside anyway... unless it's a seeing-eye dog.

You know, Erana, the perfect response to that lady would have been:

Oh, that's my seeing eye dog. I can see well enough to manage in the grocery store, I only really need him for driving.

BlazeTheVampire:
I had a lady who drove by my house every day that called animal control on us because my dog didn't have a doghouse; at least not in the section of my yard that she could see. What he actually had was a section underneath the add-on to my kitchen that my dad had boarded the side to- so he actually had a dog-mansion, lol. Animal control was like "Well, sorry she's retarded." And left, then she came back the next day and forced us to take this dog house. I nearly bitch-slapped her. So we set the thing in the middle of the yard where she could plainly see my dog laying next to it, refusing to sit in such a tiny thing. And THEN she had the nerve to tell us that when he died, she wanted the dog house back.

People like that are so much worse than people who don't want to pay $4.15 a gallon to drive their dog home before making a quick stop at the store. I'd have done the same thing, to be perfectly honest. I also would have berated the woman who mistakenly thought the dog was there for more than half an hour, but that's beside the point.

I would have punched that woman in the face. Preferably in the nose area. Followed by calling her a prick.