I live in England and a friend of mine, who is 19 btw, recently got married with the wedding, party etc. costing around £20,000 sterling. I was just wondering if anyone still believes that marriage (or civil partnerships) are important enough to a relationship to demand this kind of money or, as I believe, that just being partners is enough?
To go further is marriage still considered sacred, bearing in mind that in most countries adultery and divorce are not crimes and does no longer draw as much social stigma from communities as it did in earler years, or is it just a pointless legal confirmation of two peoples love for one another?

EDIT: In response to some people pointing out the difference between weddings and marriages I have set up a new topic asking if expensive weddings are worth it or if a cheaper ceremony is preferable, as well as the chance to detail your 'perfect' wedding for those who want to discuss such things.
Please keep this thread for the discussion of the point of marriages in general and of their relevance in your eyes.

DISCUSS

I don't think marriage is really all that important. I think you should probably do it just for society's shits and grins if you know you are having a kid, but otherwise I think entering into that commitment just puts more strain on a good relationship. If a relationship can't survive without the need to get engaged or married, then what sort of trust is that? It just seems paradoxical.

ugh honestly a marrage is just one big flashy legal proceeding so that way if one of you screws the other over then you can get your vengence by ripping out thier pride through thier wallet

I've never thought a piece of paper should be what says you love someone.

Marriage is a big deal for me and I definately would prefer it over a "long term relationship". But alot of the rituals and ceremonies involved in it don't seem all that apealing to me.

I think that the act of marriage and the meaning behind it holds as much relevance today as ever. I also think that it has become too much about legal issues, about signing contracts and stuff, and that is also has become way too commercial. Exchanging wows and entering marriage is something I see as, if not necessary, then beautiful. Writing down your love in a legally binding contract and wasting half of your yearly earnings on a big ceremony sounds more like working out the terms with a prostitute to me.

Why bother with marriage? I may as well find a woman I don't like and buy her a house.

Seriously, I've not seen *one* happy marriage. My parents, everybody at work who's married... From what I've seen and heard, their marriages are constant parades of negativity and problems.

Well this is a negative thread so far!

I'm all for marriage, in the way that it is a "good", if completely unnatural, thing for society. It provides a stable base from which to raise kids - ie the next generation, for one thing.

However, I do think that
a) too many people tend to get married based on age / money / other things that really shouldn't matter;
b) the price of ceremonies as mentioned above is absolutely ridiculous just to impress everybody you know; and
c) i am not a fan of the religious aspect.

well i think everyone misses out on some of the things that happen at a wedding and what it signifies

first and foremost it's a statement saying the two ppl involved belong to one another. the second part is a little less noticeable that is the gifts. a marriage is a way to say you and your spouse are starting a new life together. the gifts that you receive at a wedding help you start that life, most wedding gifts are stuff for a new house

so i think it's actually a good thing. it's not just a way to show off for everyone, it's a time for the family and friends to celebrate, it's as much for them as for those getting married

until the state of marriage recognizes my right to marry whoever i want regardless of gender i refuse to recognise it.

Nah. Too many people overspend their love budget on their wedding day, and forget to keep anything in the bank for when their older. I think I'd rather try ambling along with a girlfriend for the rest of my life. Much less hassle if you decide to split up.

Who needs wives when you've got a perfectly good street corner?

But seriously, i hope to get married some day, preferably through friends and not through those stupid internet dating sites as it would make me seem desparate.

My thoughts:
Marriage=good.
Over-expensive marriage=bad.
I don't see anything wrong with keeping the marriage ritual special- god knows we've deconstructed every other surviving ceremony in western civilisation.

If you get married try to find someone who likes some of the things you like but not all. It will give something to have to yourself. Like my wife loves the internet crappy reality tv and some video games(Sims, Rock Band and rachet and clank). I like surfing the net anime TV paintball And all video games. This gives me time to game when shes on the net and vice versa but we still spent time together playing rock band. oh yeah and make sure she like video games or you will have to hear shit when you spend a hundred and fifty dollars on video games.

In theory, because of all the expenses, the fact that you know you love each other anyway and dont need a piece of paper to tell you that fact, you're just following the rest of society etc. it is pointless.

However, I believe men would be lucky to find a woman who DOESNT want a wedding. Most girls that I know have been planning them for years, and I'm only 17.

And also, marriage IS the ultimate display of love you can have for someone. Nothing compares to it, and you can't exactly say 'I really love you, but I don't want to marry you because I think it's pointless'.

I've been blissfully married for 3 years now. We don't have any kids yet, but we are getting plenty of practice. We plan to be pregnant by the end of this year.

That is my history, thought I would let you know before I comment on this thread.

There are some key things to marriage. Both parties have to be ready for commitment. Personally I think that if you are under 25, you are too young. You need to each have a life established, before you marry. And when you reach a time when you think you are ready for marriage, live together first. You may have dated someone for years, but you will learn much more about them when you live with them. If you can't live with them, you can't marry them.

Finances are also a big factor. You need to be completely upfront with you partner before you marry about what financial situation you are in. For example, my sister-in-law got married only to find that her husband had $20,000+ in credit card debt. You need to be with someone who is financially similar to you. For example, save your money and marry someone who will also save money. Financial factors/debt break up a lot a couples.

Sex is another very important factor. Another thing that will break up couples. Giggle all you want, but you have to be able to talk about sex with you partner (25+ yrs old so you have some maturity on your side) You have to be with a parnter that is sexually compatible with you. Example, you have the same sex drive, you like the same things. A health sex life will definately keep a marriage healthy. A lot of people say that your sex life dies when you get married (job and kids get in the way) but I think it is important not to let it die. Make an effort. Granted, my wife and I were friskier when we were courting, but we still make the time and I think we are more active than the average married couple.

Kids. Do both of you have the same family plan? This is huge. I think this can also spoil a lot of couples. I would also suggest that any newly married couples wait a little while before having kids. Establish a family dynamic of two before adding. Plus, there are things you should get out of your system before having kids, traveling and such, that is harder to do with kids.

Dante_Alucard also makes a very good point. Things in common are great, but you can also do your own thing. And the whole surfing while one plays a game, you just described the average night at my house.

Compromise. Always be willing to compromise. And this is more of a comment of finding someone who you are really compatible with. If you find yourself fighting all the time, you might need to take a good look and find out if this is someone you need to marry. Also, don't go into a marriage thinking you will change someone. You should love them as they are, no exception. You really need to marry your best friend. Your best friend that wants to have sex with you.

The expensive wedding is really only as expensive as you want it to be. A wedding should never financially cripple you. There are inexpensive ways to do things. My wedding and the most recent one I have been to were on tighter budgets and they were absolutly great. A problem I have seen is that the parents can get over-involved and invite too many poeple. You just have to put your food down (even if they are giving you money for the wedding) and tell them that this is your event, not theirs. Get your friends to help, you family. Hell that is what it is all about. Friends and family coming together to celebrate you love and your commitment. And you are there to publicly declare you love and commitment. If you are not willing to say to the world, "I am ready to spend my life with this person", don't do it. That is why there are so many devorces now. I don't think people are ready.

Wedding presents are fraking awesome. We got an entirely new kitchen out of our wedding. It rocked.

To sum up this lengthy thread. If you are unsure about getting married, don't do it. There are so many people getting devorced now and I think it is because they are too young and just not ready. If your are looking for financial benifits to being married vs a live in girl/boyfriend, then you are missing the point. A marriage is a life long commitment (too many people forget that) of love. I don't care what comes our way, but my wife and I are in it for the long haul. Whatever problems may come up we will handle them, together. There are some good examples of marriage out there, so don't let the majority of unprepared people get you down. Marriage is work, and you have to keep working at it. But if you do, you will find that it can be the most wonderful thing in the world and will make you life all the better.

Where I am from you can get married regardless of gender. Anyhow I have been to a wedding that cost about $350 Canadian. Yep that's it, just the cost of the Justice plus the cost of the food for the BBQ. Marriages don't have to eb expensive.

Is marriage worth it? Well that depends alot on how much you value the idea of marriage. If you don't see any signifigance outside of the legal paperwork of marriage than probably not. If you believe the more romantized value of marriage or wish to use it as a statement to society that you have found the person you wish to spend your life together with then yes.

Marriage:

Yes, I believe it is neccesary. Indeed, I feel its importance is undertstated within our beautiful european culture*. It signifies that you, and you, love one another so much that you are prepared to announce it to man, beast and any gods watching. Plus, financially it represents a significant advantage- inheritance and tax purposes, not entirely sure in what way (Hell, I'm not yet eighteen, give me a break). Romantically, its downright beautiful when done right (This is me saying it. For those of you yet to recognise it, I'm the single most cold-blooded, callous and downright cruel bastard in the southern Hemisphere) but, as Wgreer points out, it must be thought out and prepared thoroughly.

Another point is that it gives a much greater stability to a relationship. It means you can't just cop out and say 'To hell with this' but rather must work through your differences. Although the divorce court still remains for the 'empty shell' marriages.

*Debate this on a seperate thread

Blayze:
Why bother with marriage? I may as well find a woman I don't like and buy her a house.

As said by Billy Connolly I think, but a quote I agree with when I'm feeling particularly cynical.

I would estimate around 80% of the people I know who are or have been married are divorced or estranged right now, some have been together for only three years. This is quite a deciding factor of my negative opinions of marriage. I will concede that a few of them may not have been right for each other, rushed in, or were not entirely truthful before they got married - dooming the union from the start.
However I do know of some who have just drifted apart despite having the best of starts and being, at least in all appearances, completely right for each other, dating for over five years but, when it came down to living their lives as man and wife, their relationship just fell apart.

I also agree with Gooble's comment in that a lot (not all) of the women I know would ultimately love to get married and have been dreaming of doing so since they were young.

I'd like to get married someday. The thought of being with someone forever is more of a stress release than stress maker. Sure there will be hard times, but I've been through hard times with friends.

Now, finding a girl I'm attracted to AND plays video games. Well, there is the rub.

I was a groomsman at my sister's wedding and it was huge I mean her biological father paid for it all we rented out an entire damn section of a convention center it easily cost nearly a million dollars.

When me and my girlfriend decide to get married we will foot the bill and have a quite family members only wedding and not that expensive wedding my sister had that went a little overboard, especially on the cake the damn thing was about ten feet tall and around ten feet wide, though it kind of had to be to give a slice to nearly three hundred very hungry people.

CartoonHead:

Blayze:
Why bother with marriage? I may as well find a woman I don't like and buy her a house.

I also agree with Gooble's comment in that a lot (not all) of the women I know would ultimately love to get married and have been dreaming of doing so since they were young.

My wife has some lofty ideas as to our wedding, but the price of some of that stuff brought her to reality. And really there are some good deals on locations (one of the more expensive parts) if you just look. We must have looked at/talked to a dozen different places. We found one that did the catering and flowers for less than what some places were charging just for the venue. And it was the best looking venue, outdoors and georgous. So you can compromise on the little girls dream and reality if you do your homework.

As to your other comment. I will again state that those were people who were probably not ready for marriage (an many married people today arn't). My circle of friends (my wife and my closest friends) have a 0% devorce rate, out of 10 couples ranging from 8 to 1 years married. Now my wife also has 3 co-workers who have been divorced (all under 26 years old I might add). So I also think that the couples that suround you can effect your mentality and possibly help or hinder any conflict resolution you and your spouse might encounter.

But overall i think you should wait until you are 25+ to get married, there is no rush. If you are in college and think you have met THE one, finish school (both of you) get jobs and then take a good hard look at your life and how your lives fit together. If you have stayed together through all of that, you are probably fit for marriage.

And I keep saying things like this, but I don't think I have really conveyed the benefits of marriage. If you are married to the right person (i.e. the truely till death do us part) then you have this great feeling that you will ALWAYS have someone there for you. Someone will always have your back and help you through any tough times you might have (and you will come across bad times). And that is a really good feeling. Oh, and you get a life long f*&k buddy.

The problem isn't with the whole marriage process, it's the people who rush into it and fling the concept of it around like they fling the word love around. I do have a personal policy that I have no right to tell someone what love is or isn't, but when you fling it around like it means nothing then it means just that. It becomes just another word. Marriage is just another thing to everyone. Another big thing to mark off the list.

You shouldn't marry someone in less you are willing to accept them for all their good and bad traits. People tend to think marriage is the answer to a rocky relationship, that it will make everything alright. Marriage means that you have enough trust and love for that other person that you are willing to work things out, be with them through thick and thin. Most people just give up and look for instant gratification somewhere else. You have to work at love and marriage, it doesn't just happen. People can't seem to figure that out. They run at the first sign of trouble. Ridiculous.

^_^

wgreer25

I should have mentioned that the large proportion of failed marriages I have seen have been those of friends' parents. Most had 5+ of marriage under their belts, and most were over the age of 25 when they did tie the knot.

I suppose the main marital disaster I draw reference from is that of my parent's, they were married for twenty years and got divorced a little under a year ago. I regret to say my father was never the same; he sunk into depression and died of alcoholism earlier this year, despite mine and my sister's best efforts to keep his spirits up, so to speak. This is obviously THE major contribution to my negative opinion.
However I do understand that some marriages work and some don't and am very careful not to be overly cynical and impede or corrupt friends' opinions on the matter.

Reasonable Doubt:
I was a groomsman at my sister's wedding and it was huge I mean her biological father paid for it all we rented out an entire damn section of a convention center it easily cost nearly a million dollars.

my cousin had a big wedding, had tons of family there and such, her grandfather ended up dying on the dance floor of a heart attack during the reception. i tend to look at the positive tho, he died a very happy man and we combined the 2 biggest drinking events in irish custom, a wedding and a wake

that being said i think ppl saying "i won't get married or recognize it till i can marry whomever i chose" are as Dan Savage said rather stupid and will probly come up with another excuse once they can.

cleverlymadeup:

my cousin had a big wedding, had tons of family there and such, her grandfather ended up dying on the dance floor of a heart attack during the reception. i tend to look at the positive tho, he died a very happy man and we combined the 2 biggest drinking events in irish custom, a wedding and a wake

that being said i think ppl saying "i won't get married or recognize it till i can marry whomever i chose" are as Dan Savage said rather stupid and will probly come up with another excuse once they can.

Wow thank god nothing like that happened at my sis's wedding it would have made everyone there laugh for the first few seconds then someone would be serious and try CPR while calling 911.

CartoonHead:
I live in England and a friend of mine, who is 19 btw, recently got married with the wedding, party etc. costing around £20,000 sterling. I was just wondering if anyone still believes that marriage (or civil partnerships) are important enough to a relationship to demand this kind of money or, as I believe, that just being partners is enough?
To go further is marriage still considered sacred, bearing in mind that in most countries adultery and divorce are not crimes and does no longer draw as much social stigma from communities as it did in earler years, or is it just a pointless legal confirmation of two peoples love for one another?

DISCUSS

during any relationship there is always a gray area where you don't really know where the other person stands. marriage, is a fairly clear semantic and as long as you are aware of the other person's meaning of the term "marriage" it is one of the rare and few times where you will know exactly where you stand in the other person's eyes.

however, if either of you are dishonest with yourselves or each other than words mean fuck all and everything is totally meaningless anyways. enjoy that psychotic guessing game that some people call a relationship.

all of that protocol and wedding brew-ha-ha doesn't mean much to my wife though and i'd imagine that if it did i would have probably thought she was frivolous and silly and wouldn't have asked her to marry me anyways.

AnGeL.SLayer:
People tend to think marriage is the answer to a rocky relationship, that it will make everything alright.

i know a couple ppl that did that, they are divorced or getting so now. my one friend married a girl cause he felt bad for her, she was pregnant with his step-daughter at the time, they are divorced now

his ex is a real bitch too, on his wedding day, she dumped the kids on him and his now-wife and said "oh you get them for the weekend, have a good wedding" even the kids had the "yeah dad we know mom was being a bitch and we don't want to be here for your wedding night" the kids are old enough, 16 and 13, to know what their mom was pulling. his new wife kicks ass tho, i've become good friends with her

Reasonable Doubt:

Wow thank god nothing like that happened at my sis's wedding it would have made everyone there laugh for the first few seconds then someone would be serious and try CPR while calling 911.

well he was told by doctors to not come out, cause of his heart, and if he disregarded those orders he was supposed to sit down and do nothing, he didn't. before the ambulance got there they had a fireman, emt and a RN doing cpr, they were all guests there. my uncle who was the RN told us there's no chance of him coming back

the funny part was during the ceremony she got piped in to national anthem of Scotland the Flower of Scotland

Interesting point BallPtPenTheif, but surely you can have and share the same happiness you find in and bring each other without the legal documentation? If you trust each other implicitly then surely you know a relationship with each other that is not marital is not going to be a "psychotic guessing game" as you have that level of trust in your relationship. A serious life-long relationship without marriage should be just as important as one that is sealed by wedding vows if you both trust one another.

I hope I don't sound aggressive in asking this as I do appreciate and in a way understand your view, I just wonder why the slip of paper and possible change of name is so important in a relationship based on the trust and love of two people when surely one another's word will do?