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Beat Writer Posts: 142 Joined: 5 Jul 2008     | |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3675 Joined: 29 Nov 2007     | Here we go again. Look, the plain facts are, Americans are irresponsible. We come to work and drive stoned already, if it was legal, it would just increase. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 111 Joined: 21 Jun 2008   | As far as I can tell, there's only one reason why marijuana is illegal, and that's because you can grow your own, which would be a money-losing venture for the government. This is a bit ironic, though, because you can also make your own alcohol, even though that's illegal. |
Beat Writer Posts: 142 Joined: 5 Jul 2008 |
Well the least you can do is legalize marijuana for medicinal purposes. Besides, laws could be placed against driving stoned, or against working stoned. Why would anybody want to rob the weed storage in their community? It would be like robbing the national wheat exchange. Who are you going to sell it to? If it's already legal, safer and easier to buy it off of the government, who would buy it off of the shady dealer in the van who needs the money, and doesn't tell you where he got his weed from? The main problem of weed legalization in Canada is the US. If we legalize it here, then thousands of Americans will come over and buy it here or Canadians will sell it to you guys. It will be a major international problem between Canada and the US, so you guys must legalize it, in order for us to do the same. |
Muckraker  Posts: 342 Joined: 17 Apr 2008  |
What happened to alcohol? Did this happen much after prohibition? Anything that reduces coordination or foresight of an individual (prescription drugs, over the counter drugs, alcohol, etc) already comes with a warning label. Near as I can remember most employment agreements will still cover mj as a possible problem if a worker decides to toke up at work. Since the substance already has a stigma if it were legalized then it would still have it outside the law. This means that counting it as a DUI is pretty logical in relation to similarly disabling drugs. Besides it is still in the interest of the current suppliers to keep the substance illegal since it, 1: creates a barrier to entry for production in the market and 2: drives price up due to limited supply. Beyond that there is always the possibility of gov't kickbacks from current suppliers to keep it illegal, which while sounding conspiratorial makes business sense (for those in a safe position anyway). |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 983 Joined: 9 Jul 2008    | I agree with your points, but Im afraid that legalization of marijuana wouldnt work mainly for this reason: Marijuana has about the same effect of alcohol in that it hampers people's abilities to operate machinery, think clearly, and generally participate productively in society. The difference is that I think the government is afraid that if the drug was legalized, people would get too carried away with it, leading to more widespread use than alcohol and thus damaging society. With marijuana being illegal, people that want it are still able to get to it, but it is not widespread enough to cause harm. I think that the laws could be generally loosened up more since it really isnt that harmful, but unfortunately it would seem that the drug needs to be illegal in order to maintain balance in society. Which is sad since if used properly, marijuana could have about the same place in society as alcohol, which in my opinion has a very good place. |
Paperboy  Posts: 16 Joined: 18 Mar 2008 | I do like to partake in the odd bit of cannabis now and then and I think it should be legalised but you do paint it in a rosy light. Other Cons: I've seen the first two myself, a friend of mine has been smoing it for about 30 years gets really paranoid and is always forgetting where she put things. Also a friend of mine from school smoked a shedload and developed schizophrenia at about 15-16, although he also took quite a lot of other drugs, they were just various forms of amphetamines and weren't psycho-active. However I know an 80-something year old ex-GP who smokes every day and is one of the most intelligent, on the ball people I know. It affects different people different ways but if you are suseptable to psychological problems you are more likely to get them if you smoke weed. And anyway the UK is probably going to legalise it at some point simply because a very large percentage of people smoke it and its already been de-classified to a class C. Although it may go back to a class B... stupid bloody politicians |
Beat Writer Posts: 142 Joined: 5 Jul 2008 |
I agree with you, and I do think the government should loosen several marijuana laws so that less young people and young dealers get in trouble with the police. I know about 15 high school kids in my area who have been arrested, suspended or expelled over having marijuana. (even in small amounts) It's unfair I say! |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 548 Joined: 24 Oct 2007 |
Are you sure? Do people go around robbing liquor stores and pharmacies? Look whenever a substance or activity is banned humans will find a way to get around it and that usually leads to a criminal underworld, and although I totally agree with what you said about legalization working in other places but not necessarily in the US, I would add that SOMETHING has to be done because our approach right now is not exactly the smartest one. I could never understand why weed offenders are treated like REAL criminals, I mean I was busted once in Florida with a dimebag and that dimebag cost me almost two years of legal inconveniences and a whole lot of bullshit that I just don't feel like going through right now; when all that tax payers money could have gone to getting REAL criminals like rapists and armed robbers. The penalty is very disproportionate. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 3675 Joined: 29 Nov 2007 | Look, you can't compare alchohol prohibition to marijuanna because they are two different substances from two different times. Now, alchohol has been in our societies for centuries. Back in the old days, ale and wine were more sterile than your town's water supply. So natturaly, in moderation, the choice was the wine. Not to mention even the christian community accepted, mostly because of holy communion, and guess what, tainted water supplies. Wine had practical uses, marijuanna, which was mind altering even in small doses, did not, thus it was called witch craft. Hey, guess who founded our nation, christians. It is illegal to drive drunk, it is illegal to be publicly drunk, people still do it. Legalising anything, doesn't take it's usage down. Drugs wouldn't profit America because once legal people will start growing marijuanna in larger amounts, see: farming. Edit: Yes, liquor stores are hit up all the time. And my local pharmacy was robbed a year ago for meth paraphenillia. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 196 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 | I know in one city in canada there is one block that it is legal to smoke marijuana. I know it sounds strange but the cops and the owners of the places on that block have sort of an agreemant. I think the city is Vancouver. Not sure though. In the U.S. it is legal in some states to get marijuana for medicinal purposes. They even have vending machines that check your prescription card or something then you select the kind you want and it pops out in a green box. A few other cons though, MASSIVE loss of memory that could be permanent. My friend has smoked his entire life because his whole family does it and he can't remember things for shit. I once told him I was coming over and half an hour later he had forgotten about it and left to go to another friends house. Also a decrease in sperm count that is temporary but as long as you do it you don't have as many x's and y's swimming around in your undercarriage. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 124 Joined: 19 Mar 2008 | Marijuana is illegal because the alcohol and tobacco lobbys want it to be illegal. Plus it gives politicians something to "save" their braindead sheep voters from. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 974 Joined: 25 Feb 2008  | 1. WRUNG, and do better research. It's less harmful to your lungs than Tobacco (or rather, less carcinogenic), but still involves habitual inhalation of smoke, which nicely sets you up for emphyzema, heart attacks, bullous lung disease and several other lovely conditions. It also has it's very own disease Cannabis arteritis, effects being damage to blood vessels in the extremities of the body. It tends to effect young or new users of the drug, generally leads to the amputation of limbs. So err... safer how? |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2020 Joined: 7 Mar 2008   | there is actually a movie on the movie network, or was, about legalizing marijuana in the states, it was very well done by the same ppl who do Penn & Teller's Bullshit!, don't think it's on anymore tho however it brought up a few issues with the legalization and prohibition there's no one alive that remembers what it was like to have legalized marijuana anymore, with alcohol it was only a few years after prohibition that it was made legal again. marijuana was given "worse than osama bin laden and hitler's love child" label and it's stuck because that vast majority of ppl don't know it's not that bad there is so much bad information out there about it that no one listens to the good sides of it, ie the health issues it can ease it is actually not illegal in canada, it's not legal but it's not illegal, unless it's been recently changed. this came about because of a loophole in the law. the law said "it's illegal to possess" HOWEVER it's legal to possess for medical reasons BUT the government has no distribution method setup for it to be given to medical users so they must obtain it illegally. the judge ruled the law unconstitutional and tossed it out. the pcs were supposed to fix this issue but never did and paid for it |
Muckraker Posts: 342 Joined: 17 Apr 2008 |
Guess what else was legal before being outlawed. I'm not old enough to have lived before the 60's, but I've heard the accounts. Alcohol is considered a depressant; it's considered a drug. Without the cultural implications of alcohol and the discovery of it today it would be labeled as a drug. I've seen no evidence to support the idea of more instances of DUI in the long term if it were to become legal. The problem with the 'war on drugs' is that once it started there were more violent crimes and the price for any given illegal drug skyrocketed. There were some conspiratorial claims against the administration after the idea was instated, but I find delving into those from anything other than a theoretical idea for the business aspect rather annoying. The problem with the 'illegal still' vs 'illegal farm' in a situation where both substances are legal is that there is oversight. Most illegal stills run limited production, and are only popular in certain places. If one were to talk of adding to said product there would be repercussions. With any given drug there are repercussions to get it to the market legally. Whereas illegally there are barriers to entry as different people choose different suppliers (brands). There is a problem in the logic I've seen so far: an instance of a negative instance (anecdotal evidence) serving as evidence for a swathe of problems. If were one to look at crime in liquor stores & pharmacies vs what was taken one would find it's usually the cash. There are many who are opportunistic and take other things, but the main reason they come is due to greed or lack of funds. |
Infamous Scribbler Posts: 548 Joined: 24 Oct 2007 |
Those are very good points, but the fact remains: America does not no how to handle substance control. My point in legalizing marijuana has more to do with the social impact rather than the medical one. Of course people are gonna drive around stoned, drunk, coked, etc. That's not the point. My point is the way the gov. handles the issue. Does the NY Rockafeller law ring a bell? Have you been to Florida lately? Even some individual State laws are at odds with the fedral gov. (California, Nevada, Alaska, etc.) I can't get into what will happen if legalized because WE DON"T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN, but we do need to review our position on the issue because there is a lot of funds being thrown out to a problem we don't even know a solution for. And don't tell me that liquor store and pharmacy robbery is a new american epidemic now... |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 3675 Joined: 29 Nov 2007 |
I'm not, someone asked question, and I answered. It's practically a moot point to argue what would happen if marijuanna was legalised anyway because what would happen is obvious; people will smoke it. I think America has better things to worry about than whether marijuanna should be legalsied.... like, you know, rising gas prices, and food prices that are being spiked to draw our attention away from said gas prices. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 377 Joined: 7 Nov 2007 |
Nah everyone knows it became illegal in the US originally because the synthetic fibres companies decades back didn't want competition from hemp so they stuck a few extra dollars in the pockets of politicians to make sure it was outlawed. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2020 Joined: 7 Mar 2008 |
wrong marijuana was made illegal around the same time as alcohol was in the united states, it used to be legal :) i do believe a hemp parachute saved one of the Bush's, i believe it was either George Sr or Prescott
not always and there's not link to those lung diseases
actually not it's not, only if stored improperly
so can food, tomatoes for instance
it's not very common at all
that's totally wrong so ummm do your research first before posting and claiming someone should do their's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_issues_and_the_effects_of_cannabis the fact is most medical "studies" are just plain wrong, they typically smother the test animals with marijuana, giving it the equivalent of several packs of smokes a day, most marijuana smokers have a joint or two a day, heavy users can have more |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 3675 Joined: 29 Nov 2007 |
Lol, now they're saying it's peppers by the way. |
Muckraker Posts: 342 Joined: 17 Apr 2008 | The Lancet seems to have many things to say about psychosis and the use of cannabis: http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140673607616547/fulltext (Above is a free summary, with conclusions; have to register to view though) It's a journal. Medical/Scientific journals can publish plenty of things that people can specifically point to, however the idea of many journals is to allow as a platform for communicating ideas. Here's another link: |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1851 Joined: 13 Dec 2007    | Living in BC, it's sometimes hard to remember it's illegal. I've never done it and never will, but pretty much everybody my age has at some time or other, and you can't walk down Commercial Drive without catching a whiff at least four times. Personally, I wouldn't like it legalized because then I'd have to smell it even more, but in a grander scheme it probably should be. I have to thoroughly disagree with "4) Marijuana is not addictive (only in very rare cases will it cause addiction)" though. If I used both my fingers and toes I still couldn't count how many people say the opposite from experience. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2020 Joined: 7 Mar 2008 |
no it's habit forming and NOT addictive, there's a difference and i'll explain say every morning you get up and drink 2 glasses of orange juice and 10 push-ups. you do this for a couple years. it will become habit to do this, if you stop doing it you will just feel odd for the rest of the day. nothing will be wrong with you and your body won't crave it now say you smoke a pack a day for a couple years. your body depends on the tobacco, when you quit your body will actually crave it because there's a chemical dependency there. you will go thru the various stages of withdrawl with marijuana you don't go thru withdrawl, you just feel off. it's also a bit socially addictve, meaning if you are around friend who do it you are more likely to do it out of habit not a need |
Beat Writer Posts: 158 Joined: 4 Feb 2008 | Let me first say that I agree 100% with the OP, and want to add one more argument: The moral one. Remember that we have supremacy over our own bodies. B |
-Have a intelligent discussion that doesn't result in flaming and name calling
No, I'm not here to talk to you about the unfortunate travesty that is the loss of Fallout 3 to our brothers down under. Nor am i here to discuss the legalization of some random video game law we currently have in existence, besides I'm in Off-Topic Discussion.
I'm here to talk about a very hot-button topic: Marijuana.
Firstly, I want to say right out that I have used the substance, which kind of leads into one of my reasons for wanting it to be legalized. Also, since I live in Canada, my arguments come from a Canadian point of view, and therefore is subject to error and misconceptions on the world at large.
I am a person who believes marijuana should be legalized because:
1) It's less harmful to the human body than tobacco
2) Being an ATM drug, it is said to lead into harder drugs like cocaine, removing the dealers causes this to never occur.
3) It is damn near impossible to overdose on marijuana, and would be incredibly costly to do so. (think: smoking your body weight)
4) Marijuana is not addictive (only in very rare cases will it cause addiction)
5) Some Marijuana today is apparently cut with addictive and dangerous materials, or has a higher amount of THC than recommended, if the gov't were to keep tabs on it, this problem would cease to occur.
6) Lots of people use marijuana, or have used the substance, and it could stand to be a lucrative business for the government, similar to the success of the LCBO and Beer Store.
7)The government can use the marijuana plant for other uses, like the manufacture of clothes with hemp.
8) Marijuana would be cheaper to the everyday man at large
9) Drug related crimes would take a beating, as dealers would be lessened, (nobody is going to buy their product) as well as marijuana related crimes lessened.
10) Marijuana is an effective product, it's cheap to grow, you get maximum profit for minimum crops and you have a large amount of consumers to sell it to.
I compare Marijuana today like prohibition. Alcohol/Marijuana have only one purpose: pleasure. Thousands of people die in alcohol related accidents every year, virtually nobody dies of Marijuana related incidents. Alcoholics are a very real and sad thing marijuana addicts are very rare, and almost laughable. Large crops of barley and other materials are used to make alcohol every year, whilst only small amounts of marijuana plants are used to make marijuana.
As soon as alcohol was legalized, the rum-runners and criminals related to it stopped. Why would they go through all the trouble of selling something that was legal? Organized crime took a blow, and moved onwards to harder, much more dangerous drugs. Marijuana will most likely follow in a similar fashion. With government regulation, much of the risk and danger of being involved with dealers would disappear, as would marijuana related crimes.
Alcohol is detectable, and has laws in place to avoid overuse, misuse, underage use, and various other problems. Marijuana is detectable and can have the same laws in place to avoid children using the drug, as well as the misuse of said drug. People could still be arrested for misusing the drug or selling it to minors, (if anything, more severe laws could be made) but people of age and of proper mind could use the drug in small amounts for entertainment and recreation.
Marijuana has medicinal uses, the drug should at least be legalized for medicinal uses. There have been very few to no long term effects found for the use of marijuana, and the drug can be used for insomnia, anorexia, panic attacks, and various others uses. If governments in the world can't be found to legalize marijuana to the public at large, they can at least let it be used for it's medicinal purposes to those who truly need it.
I'm not saying marijuana is good, it's obviously illegal right now, and I've resolved to never touch it whilst it's illegal. (went to Amsterdam to try the stuff) But from my experience, Marijuana is fun, it gets you eating and sleeping, and it's detectable.
Cons of Marijuana:
-Laziness (temporary)
-Slowing of human functions and motor skills (temporary)
These cons can be combated if the proper laws are in place. Laws for public drunkenness can be brought to marijuana as well. I think that there has been a lot of fuss over something that really isn't that big of a deal. I personally think that marijuana should replace cigarettes in stores, because it has a lower addiction rate, you get more out of it, and it's irrevocably safer to use than tobacco/cigarettes. I've lost a grandmother to cigarettes, and would very much like to see the damn things taken out of stores!
EDIT: Wow... I'm kind of shocked with how this thing has taken off...
Anyway, I didn't really start this because I am a massive stoner or because I just love my hemp. I don't even really like the stuff that much. I just think that the people who want to do it, and the kids who like doing it, shouldn't be getting criminal records for the stuff. It's deranged. If a kid goes to a party and does the stuff one time, he can get in enough trouble to ruin his life and all of his future. I just think that that is wrong, and that the government should focus on more pressing crimes and issues.