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Press Junketeer  Posts: 460 Joined: 2 Jun 2008     | |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2746 Joined: 8 May 2008    |
No, our press is just stupid. The government flat out admitted that they lied to go to war and only one person coverd it on the news, one damn person out of all the other news shows and 24 hours news channels. They'll put an emu escaping form a zoo on national news, but not that. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 90 Joined: 14 Jul 2008    | Brink of war? is aw on the enws that they ARE in war, russia have over 1500 tanks in Georgia. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 98 Joined: 25 Jul 2008 | I'd be cautious about playing the blame game as yet another war breaks out. There is so much that I don't know about the region and conflict (and I think many others on this forum are the same) while both sides are concealing a lot of information and facts as well as manipulating other truths for their own benefit. This makes it very hard to objectively determine who is justified, for me at least. But war is where politics end and it is no longer about law, justice or discussion and the fact of who is right or wrong is purely academic since it's the battlefield that will determine the outcome. The time for discussion was long ago when Russia shot down a Georgian UAV or when the first border clash broke out. However, I suspect Russia doesn't wants to get into a long war any more than Georgia does but the dogs of war have already been let loose and either side can't back down first. This is the 'prisoner's dilemma' or 'Peace-War Game' that lead to two World Wars in Europe as the conflicts escalate then draw in allies. Since WWII this is normally solved by changing the objectives of war from total victory to fighting for a stalemate. This is much easier to do and can bring an end to the conflict quicker and with fewer casualties with a much greater chance of achieving the key objectives. They key components are: Of course this wont work if one army completely outclasses another such as US/UK against the Iraqi army where a total victory is attainable with minimal casualties (but then there is the problem of the insurgency/guerilla phase). |
Paperboy  Posts: 17 Joined: 4 Aug 2008 | In my half asleep state, I heard my brother talking to one of his friends about this over the phone. I thought he was talking about a book he'd read or a story he was writing. I had NO IDEA this was actually happening. Frickin' wars. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1411 Joined: 11 Jun 2008    |
CNN actually stopped reporting on missing children to cover this issue. though i'm pretty sure it wasn't mentioned on any network channels. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 58 Joined: 5 Aug 2008  | At the moment I'm watching Russian and Ukrainian news channels. And there are lots of differences. For example, Ukrainian channel didn't mention that Georgia started all this shit by bombing peaceful city to 2000 dead and who knows how many wounded. On the other side Russian First National Channel (or so) told that Ukraine may send soldiers to help Georgia and Ukrainian goverment supports Georgian one. Never heared it in Ukrainian news. So when I heard that, it was kinda "what the fuck? are they totally outa their fucking minds?!". Because situation is retarded to the bone if they made it up or not. I have friends in both Ukrainian and Russian militia and what now they'll have to shoot each other? |
Muckraker  Posts: 229 Joined: 6 Apr 2008 | I can tell that this war will not achieve anything. |
Muckraker  Posts: 332 Joined: 4 Jun 2008 | I doubt Russian or Georgian news are unbiased and Russian news at least are known to make up stuff*. I'm sure Georgian news are releasing news where Russia is "teh evils." For example, in BBC there's no mention of Ukraine sending troops. *Like in the Estonian statue issue.
They sent 150 tanks and armoured vehicles. Not 1500. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1281 Joined: 29 Dec 2007  |
You have to watch both sides and make your own judgement. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 85 Joined: 2 Jul 2008  | I find it funny that the only reason I have an idea about whats going on is I heard it during the opening ceremony last night, something about to bad for the Olympic truce or whatever... |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1480 Joined: 27 Mar 2008 |
Southern Ossetia has claimed to be an independent state since 1992. They held a referendum about it in 2006. They have been de-facto independent for pretty much all of that time. -- Alex |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1480 Joined: 27 Mar 2008 |
As Unknower already said, it's 150 tanks. Also, the tanks are in Southern Ossetia, not Georgia proper (*). So far, Russian territorial intrusion into non-de-facto-independent areas of Georgia has consisted of air strikes. -- Alex * - Unless you want to make a political point by calling it "Georgia." |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1376 Joined: 7 Aug 2008    | Wow when did this happen?!?! Nothing has been in the news. |
Muckraker Posts: 229 Joined: 6 Apr 2008 | The Olympics is why no one is covering this. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1480 Joined: 27 Mar 2008 | Speaking of oil: there's a pipeline from Azerbaijan to the Black Sea through Georgia, the only one that bypasses Russia or Iran. This is, like, the only thing that FOX News has gotten right so far. -- Alex |
Anonymous Source Posts: 2 Joined: 10 Aug 2008 |
War never achieves anything except proving how premature our race is. Like someone else said though, this sounds familier to the desperate peacefull treaties during the first world war. Europe split in half. This reminds me of Red Riding Hood. ^^
08/08/08. Epic cover up by the Chinese there ^ |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 112 Joined: 14 May 2008 | Everyone's discussing Georgia and Russia here, without really discussing the keystone, as it were: South Ossetia. SO seceded from Georgia about a decade ago. North Ossetia is already a part of the Russian Fed, and the North and South, abnormally for most countries, of Ossetia get on really, really well. They want to be together. Georgia got its president elected on the basis that he was nationalist and that he would take back SO. He tried to do this on Friday, after it was clear that he wasn't getting into NATO soon, Kosovo had been recognised by NATO members and the Beijing Olympics were on. So they attacked. Nobody should deny that Russia is a cold hearted, calculating and selfish world power. They're already sending troops into Georgia, allowing their Cossacks (read: state sanctioned vigilantes, if that's not an oxymoron) to go and help and basically reaping this for all it's worth. We (the West) should try and prevent as much blood being spilled. But let's not forget that this is essentially what Serbia did to Kosovo a decade ago, and NATO were happily sanctioned to go and fuck Milosevic up. People need to stop reading 'Russia' as 'Bad guys'... Although they are pretty bad. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1480 Joined: 27 Mar 2008 | I would respect NATO a lot more if it stopped playing its bullshit cold-war game and actually had some kind of coherent moral logic behind its policies and actions. The first step is not supporting random assholes just because they express some anti-Russian sentiments. Here's hoping that a change in the White House can bring that about... -- Alex |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1618 Joined: 29 Dec 2007   | I don't know exactly who is to blame with the start of this, but judging from the Russians' actions, it looks like they're in it to win it. Unless NATO steps in (worst case scenario), the Russians will take over Ossetia pretty quickly. I doubt a small Central Asian NATO reject could take on Russia for long, especially at the rate those Russians are bombing them. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 107 Joined: 16 Jul 2008 |
Oooh that's harsh. But anyways, I'm personally hoping NATO and the US mind our business and leave the situation alone. But, alas, with our intelligent president still in command I'm afraid the opposite may become a reality. |
Muckraker  Posts: 309 Joined: 23 Jul 2008 | I wonder. Regarding Bush, could this situation with Georgia, a young, struggling "democracy" in the midst of adversity, run some parallels with the Iraq War? If so, could that then have some kind of influence on how Bush responds to this? Basically, has he "learned his lesson" from Iraq, or will he try to "stay the course?" |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1281 Joined: 29 Dec 2007 |
They most likely will, but only as far as providing supply's. Georgia's actions are similer to the US's when dealing with Iraq. Only diffrence is nobody really likes Iraq, or wants to fight the US. |
Muckraker  Posts: 263 Joined: 10 Aug 2008 | Hahah Russia is becoming the new US in terms of attacking small countries for no real reason. |
Anonymous Source  Posts: 7 Joined: 26 Dec 2007 | Well war seems like a petty and immature way to settle conflicts, even if they've been arguing for more than a decade. I'm guessing (and hoping) other big nations will put an end to this, in a more peaceful manner, but if not... Ouch! |
Muckraker Posts: 263 Joined: 10 Aug 2008 | Chances are, both sides are just lying to the media and their own people. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 113 Joined: 21 Dec 2007 | "In war the first casualty is truth" |
Muckraker  Posts: 251 Joined: 4 Apr 2008 | I know this is serious but I can totally see some redneck watching the tv and going "Ma! Them Ruskies are invading Georgia, thats only a couple states away!" |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 64 Joined: 10 Aug 2008 | Damn you U.S news shows and your inability too report stuff like this and Darfur |
Muckraker  Posts: 238 Joined: 4 Feb 2008 | I'm inclined to support Russia on this one. Sure, there are probably a few lies kicking about, but when was the media ever 100% truthful? I really hope we (The west) doesn't get involved, because the shit could quite badly hit the fan. |
Muckraker Posts: 251 Joined: 4 Apr 2008 | well we got the fan (fanatical patriots who believe everything on tv) now all we need is some bullshit (media YAY!!) |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1618 Joined: 29 Dec 2007 |
Well damn, what else could the Georgians expect when they start shelling villages filled with Russian citizens? When dealing with paramilitary fighters, indiscriminate bombing isn't generally the best idea. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 4246 Joined: 2 Dec 2007   | Now the US is backing up Georgia? Why?! I thought they started this shit by trying to take over South Ossetia from the people, who mainly wanted to be Russian. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 213 Joined: 4 Jun 2008 |
that is what im thinking... also, arnt we allied with russia? and we are opposing the russia with the nukes, mind you. it would be wise not to start a nuclear winter... i like the sun. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1281 Joined: 29 Dec 2007 | Well the more I found out the more I thought Russia was right, but now Georgia is withdrawing and Russia isn't backing down I'm not so sure. And with Ukrain moving to unbolck Georgia ports this could get ugly. Russia had total victory, why arn't they backing down?
Because Georga Said they were invading SO to stop terror attacks, kinda like the US in Iraq but more legit, well as far as the terror attacks. I think Georga didn't have the intention to leave however. |
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I'm predicting that south Ossetia is claimed to be an independant state within 3 weeks but their may be some terrorism afterwards from Georgia which will lead to Russia declaring full frontal war on Georgia which will be silenced relatively quickly again. unless nato and the UN side against Russia in which case Russia will take on half the world single handedly and win...and it will be AWESOME (sings Dominion/Mother Russia)
anyone else find it ironic that the US and UK are capitalizing on the dispute 'demanding' a cease fire for no reason other than to try and repair their poor humanity to war record?