Randy Couture vs Brock Lesnar in CHAMPIONSHIP fight...ouch.

Contrary to how this may come off this question is directly targeted to non-MMA fans.

For those of you not into MMA Randy Couture is like a real life Rocky, an old guy and quitessential underdog who at his forties could still dominate the younger guys in his sport. The guy is a legend in the sport after having had big victories and big defeats, retiring and then coming back to become the champion. Always pushing forward one fight at a time and a hell of a lot of hard work... but I'm thinking he's insane now, completely bonkers, off the deep end.

Enter Brock Lesnar: THAT WWE guy. The guy is a huge freak (someone on the tubes once called him the Vanilla Gorilla) who while lacking the serious pedigree and perfected skill that Couture has, he can cater to the masses and to the fans he made in his prowrestling days. He's an amazing athlete in his own right with incredible credentials in competitive wrestling but little tried and texted experience in MMA, and he's looking to make a splash in the scene in a big way. He has already dominated a huge veteran fighter by the name of Heath Herring who happens to be a very big guy, apparently at will, so he's definitely improving.

Now, Couture was embroiled in a legal battle with the UFC(the promotion), which seems to have been resolved now, and is now training full time to fight Lesnar as some kind of agreement between both parties.

Literally, the only fight that made sense for him, from a career standpoint, was one with a guy named Fedor Emelianenko who is, like, Russia's pride-being inviting to a sitting with Vladimir Putin and have your picture taken does that to your rep in there. This Fedor character is considered by many as the most proficient MMA athlete to ever walk the planet; and that seemed like a great way to close Randy's career. One last shot at greatness, win or lose he would try.

Now comes the WTF moment:

He's an old guy litterally fighting a giant white man-bear who will be very motivated to "hug him", and club him with his giant tree-trunk arms.

What the hell is he thinking? Now, Mr. Randy Couture is an accomplished athlete and sportsman but, hell, that's just insane. It's like me trying to wrestle a pickup truck to the ground that's speeding in my direction.

What kind of insanity are the promoters thinking? This kind of thing has TRAGEDY written all over it. What's worse is that people are actually thinking that Mr. Couture can actually pull the upset in this one.

At best, we have the slim chance of watching an old guy power through for another Rocky moment, and at worst we have a newsreel of an old guy getting clubbed to submission by a shiny white man-bear witha sword tattoo on his chest.

Anything can happen in sports, even more so in a combat sport like MMA, but what can really happen when you pit an old veteran who has been sidelined for a year vs a young up-and-comer at his/her athletic peak who happens to be size HUGE(standard max gloves don't even fit his hand), in a fight? Maybe in his younger years, but now?

Don't you all think that this is a stupid move on part of a promotion that has worked so hard to bring marketability and respectability to an admittedly controversial sport?

Will we end up with headlines like:

"45 year old champion crushed under might of Polar Bear in cage"

"Randy Couture: Son, Husband, Father, Friend, SNACK."

I bring this up as an MMA fan because as far as I know, the escapist is not necessarily a breeding ground for MMA "hardcore fans" or "purists" who snobbishly say they just want to watch great fights as if age and the passage of time didn't matter. I want a frank oppinion to a frank question from the would-be target audience that the promotion wants to grab: the general public.

Again, I ask this as an MMA fan:

Isn't this just stupid and counter productive?

Are you interested in watching a combat sport event with this as the headline fight?

I confess, the tone of this particular post has a little humor thrown in for good measure(vanilla gorilla/bears) but nonetheless, just do a brief google on both fighters and their trayectory, their wins, their losses, etc. with an open mind and judge for yourselves. Save for a magical submission, I don't see mr. Couture trumping this one out. And, seriously there's people going batshit insane over this:

http://mmajunkie.com/news/5190/its-official-randy-couture-returning-to-ufc-fights-brock-lesnar-at-ufc-91.mma

Quoting Angela Wright: "Peace out, dogs."

WHAAAAAAT?!?!?

Why is this happening? When did Brock Lesnar even earn a title shot? The guy has only won a single fight in the UFC thus far!

I'll be routing for Couture, that's all I'll say. Because Lesnar hasn't earned the right for a title shot, and if Couture beats him, he will have cemented himself as, thus far, the greatest fighter in history.

... who has still not fought Fedor Emelianenko. Still, this match-up is pretty weird given the circumstances of Coture's last retirement.

It's a great way of boosting Lesnar's ratings. I don't think he's earned this fight yet but I can't wait to see it.

I think Randy's going to have a struggle against Lesnar. I know he's defeated some big guys by decision in the past, but he hasn't faced a big guy with Lesnar's (amateur) wrestling ability and strength.

I know that clip is from pro-wrestling, but you can't fake weight or gravity.

My point is that this thing is more detrimental to the sport in the long run than beneficial. At mmajunkie.com people are going bonkers in the comments sections, just happy that their demi-god Randy is back, but damn! he's 45-almost half a century, and let's not forget that in his past fight he got his forearm broken by a kick while blocking. What the hell do people think will happen? Unless a stupid freakish ocurrence manifests itself, I don't see Randy doing much other than leaving on a stretcher.

Couture is a serious athlete and a positive example for the sport in his own right, he doesn't deserve that kind of setup. He must be either going for the money or just completely bonkers.

So yeah, the guy is a fighter, blah, blah, blah, but seriously, consider his health... plus he hasn't fought anyone for over a year.

This can only end badly.

EDIT: I'll be rooting for Couture or Lesnar to get injured and unable to compete.

unabomberman:
My point is that this thing is more detrimental to the sport in the long run than beneficial. At mmajunkie.com people are going bonkers in the comments sections, just happy that their demi-god Randy is back, but damn! he's 45-almost half a century, and let's not forget that in his past fight he got his forearm broken by a kick while blocking. What the hell do people think will happen? Unless a stupid freakish ocurrence manifests itself, I don't see Randy doing much other than leaving on a stretcher.

Couture is a serious athlete and a positive example for the sport in his own right, he doesn't deserve that kind of setup. He must be either going for the money or just completely bonkers.

So yeah, the guy is a fighter, blah, blah, blah, but seriously, consider his health... plus he hasn't fought anyone for over a year.

This can only end badly.

But then again, he had done the same thing and then returned to take down Silvia for the championship. But Brock Lesnar is a different kind of beast. He's a phsyical monstrosity in himself. But I've never been impressed by his skills as a fighter. He's just a bum-rushing beast.

I'm hoping that nothing goes awry and that Couture is capable of dealing with him and his strength. If he can, then I think Couture's skills can carry him through. If not... then I just don't know.

But if there's anything that I've learned from MMA, its that there is no substitute for skill and experience . Just look at Anderson Silva vs. James Irvin.

Classic.

Just because Lesnar has a massive size and power advantage doesn't automatically make it a mismatch. Is Lesnar freakishly huge, amazingly strong, and incredibly agile for a man his size? Yeah, he sure as hell is. Is Lesnar a talented and wily fighter? Not so much.

Lesnar dominates by his sheer size against guys who lack the skills to actually outfight him. Couture is an incredibly talented fighter with wrestling skills on par to, or even surpassing, those of Lesnar. If Couture can control the flow of the fight the chances of him locking Lesnar into a submission are very high.

Lesnar is a pure grappler with some limited abilities at being a striker, but Couture is an all-around fighter without very many weak points. The only way he'll lose if he if slips up and allows Lesnar inside his guard, as long as he dictates the pace of the fight and can keep himself out of the big man's paws he'll manage to wear Lesnar down, tire him out, and put him away.

The fight could go one of two ways, really. Lesnar gets a lucky break and ends it early due to an error by Couture, or Couture runs circles around him and it ends after some time with Couture forcing an exhausted Lesnar to tap.

Indeed. Lesnar lost by heel hook to Frank Mir pretty easily. He just didn't know what to do. If Couture can pull that off, he's got a good chance of winning.

i think it will be a good test for Brock and definately for Randy.

i always hear people saying crap like "Brock has no skills" they are simply misinformed, he's a 2 time NJCAA all american, 2 time NCAA all american, 2 time Big 10 champion and the 2000 NCAA heavy weight champ and has an overall record of 106-5 in wrestling

he knows his wrestling and is pretty good, only reason he didn't go to the olympics was he went into wrasslin

Randy will have his hands fun, Brock packs a serious punch and is a good wrestler too, Randy will have to really work for the win there

as for why the Fedor fight hasn't happened, is Fedor isn't part of the ufc, whom Randy is still under contract with, and i'm guessing that this fight with Brock is going to be the exit to said contract paving the way for the Fedor fight, even tho as sad as it is to say Fedor would smash him

But then again, he had done the same thing and then returned to take down Silvia for the championship. But Brock Lesnar is a different kind of beast. He's a phsyical monstrosity in himself. But I've never been impressed by his skills as a fighter. He's just a bum-rushing beast.

I'm hoping that nothing goes awry and that Couture is capable of dealing with him and his strength. If he can, then I think Couture's skills can carry him through. If not... then I just don't know.

But if there's anything that I've learned from MMA, its that there is no substitute for skill and experience . Just look at Anderson Silva vs. James Irvin.

Classic.

Well, yes. But Couture beat Sylvia when he was younger, like, 44. I mean, WTF? you can only push luck so far, right? With every second that passes the odds mount more and more against Randy, right?

Randy can't possibly hold as much oxygen in his blood as the Vanilla Gorilla since he's way older than him, that's scientific fact. That limits his possibilities greatly.

People want to see Randy win; defeat Lesnar after receiving an ungodly beating just moments before getting the victory by submission or whatever. Something just right to be placed in a highlight reel and then a hollywood movie, like he did with Tim Sylvia, except that with Sylvia he never got seriously tagged, ever.

I just think that this move is seriously unneeded. The only risk worth taking for him was Fedor, and even that looked spooky to me, but this? Seriously, Couture needs some help.

As for Anderson Silva, yes, he owned Irving who tested positive for doping, by the way. But A.S is, well, young for all standards.

This happened because MMA will always wind up trying to appeal to 14 year olds who wish the real world, and real martial arts, were more like Street Fighter 2, with jump kicking, themed fighters, and freakishly large cow-men (love u yahtzee). Real fighters who lack 14 yo appeal will always take a back seat beacause having an excellent game from the side-mount is all well and good, and you might have submissions out the wazoo, but those are short on spectacle and blood.
Spectacle and blood sells, and grappling/MMA enthusiasts like myself cry ourselves to sleep at night, not really, I'm too tough to cry, which is a shame because my tears cure HIV.

unabomberman:

But then again, he had done the same thing and then returned to take down Silvia for the championship. But Brock Lesnar is a different kind of beast. He's a phsyical monstrosity in himself. But I've never been impressed by his skills as a fighter. He's just a bum-rushing beast.

I'm hoping that nothing goes awry and that Couture is capable of dealing with him and his strength. If he can, then I think Couture's skills can carry him through. If not... then I just don't know.

But if there's anything that I've learned from MMA, its that there is no substitute for skill and experience . Just look at Anderson Silva vs. James Irvin.

Classic.

Well, yes. But Couture beat Sylvia when he was younger, like, 44. I mean, WTF? you can only push luck so far, right? With every second that passes the odds mount more and more against Randy, right?

Randy can't possibly hold as much oxygen in his blood as the Vanilla Gorilla since he's way older than him, that's scientific fact. That limits his possibilities greatly.

People want to see Randy win; defeat Lesnar after receiving an ungodly beating just moments before getting the victory by submission or whatever. Something just right to be placed in a highlight reel and then a hollywood movie, like he did with Tim Sylvia, except that with Sylvia he never got seriously tagged, ever.

I just think that this move is seriously unneeded. The only risk worth taking for him was Fedor, and even that looked spooky to me, but this? Seriously, Couture needs some help.

As for Anderson Silva, yes, he owned Irving who tested positive for doping, by the way. But A.S is, well, young for all standards.

You are definetly right, but Couture has made a career in beating the odds thus far. I'm not saying its going to be easy or anything, because Lesnar is a talented wrestler and just a big motherfucker, so only time will tell. Couture is an old guy, definetly, but he's pretty much proving the "old master" martial arts myth to be possible. Where is, Brock Lesnar is a genetic freak worthy of being Lou Farigno's body double.

We'll see. It is an exciting fight, but its also a very, very dangerous one.

And I was not aware of Irvin doping. That just makes me respect Anderson Silva even more. I hate, hate, hate dopers and 'roid users (looking at you Sean Sherk), because they are ruining the sport. That's the same reason why I respect Kenny Florian so much, because he not only went five-rounds with a 'roided up Sean Sherk, but he almost won a championship from it.

I guess the point of this is to say, Kenny Florian and Anderson Silva are awesome.

Winter Rat:
This happened because MMA will always wind up trying to appeal to 14 year olds who wish the real world, and real martial arts, were more like Street Fighter 2, with jump kicking, themed fighters, and freakishly large cow-men (love u yahtzee). Real fighters who lack 14 yo appeal will always take a back seat beacause having an excellent game from the side-mount is all well and good, and you might have submissions out the wazoo, but those are short on spectacle and blood.
Spectacle and blood sells, and grappling/MMA enthusiasts like myself cry ourselves to sleep at night, not really, I'm too tough to cry, which is a shame because my tears cure HIV.

Whoa, just whoa...

Okay, back to topic.

Short point illustrated by animal fable:

How can mr. Couture do anything to Big Bear if mr. Bear is way, way stronger? I'm sure on mr. Bear's corner are some crafty arctic penguins softly whispering in his ear not to let that human grab hold of one of his hind legs. And let's not forget, some other human whose last name means peace in russian has already grabbed one of mr. Bear's hind legs and forced him to submit, and I'm sure the crafty penguins know this and have prepared for it during their malicious whispering.

Animal fables aside, how can mr. Couture overpower man-bear? Other than man-bear doing something stupid like giving a leg, I just don't see it. And let's not forget that man-bear can also learn from past mistakes.

EDIT: yeah, I too feel Kenny is underappreciated...

Winter Rat:
This happened because MMA will always wind up trying to appeal to 14 year olds who wish the real world, and real martial arts, were more like Street Fighter 2, with jump kicking, themed fighters, and freakishly large cow-men (love u yahtzee). Real fighters who lack 14 yo appeal will always take a back seat beacause having an excellent game from the side-mount is all well and good, and you might have submissions out the wazoo, but those are short on spectacle and blood.
Spectacle and blood sells, and grappling/MMA enthusiasts like myself cry ourselves to sleep at night, not really, I'm too tough to cry, which is a shame because my tears cure HIV.

Yeah, I'm gonna go with Una and say this young man is misinformed.

Randy will have to do some serious dodging against Lesner. The first punch Lesner hit on both Mir and Heath instantly knocked them down. It will be an interesting fight though.

Ares Tyr:

But if there's anything that I've learned from MMA, its that there is no substitute for skill and experience . Just look at Anderson Silva vs. James Irvin.

Classic.

actually it was just plain old text book muay thai that Anderson caught James with, funny part is James SHOULD know that. i thought it was a good fight, not as good as the affliction ones on at the same time tho

Winter Rat:
This happened because MMA will always wind up trying to appeal to 14 year olds who wish the real world, and real martial arts, were more like Street Fighter 2, with jump kicking, themed fighters, and freakishly large cow-men (love u yahtzee). Real fighters who lack 14 yo appeal will always take a back seat beacause having an excellent game from the side-mount is all well and good, and you might have submissions out the wazoo, but those are short on spectacle and blood.
Spectacle and blood sells, and grappling/MMA enthusiasts like myself cry ourselves to sleep at night, not really, I'm too tough to cry, which is a shame because my tears cure HIV.

well when you get a clue on what Brock has actually done, check out my last post to see, you might see he's a bit more than just a gimmick, especially to real mma fans

if i'm around i might get to go hang out with Rich Franklin and watch the ufc in oct with him, i have hung out with a few mma personalities tho and they are pretty awesome guys

Just picture Randy being pummeled by mr. Bear, which is what will most likely happen, is it worth it? The answer is no. I'm not real excited about this. If Randy were like five or six years younger, then maybe, but as things stand right now, every fight with him is a gamble. After watching his last fight, when he beat Gonzaga, two weird things happened.

First, He got his forearm broken blocking a headkick by Gonzaga; and second, he slammed Gonzaga in the mat in such a way that caused him an accidental nose fracture. When they were both stood up Gonzaga couldn't see, breathe or do anything. Granted, Randy won that fair and square; those kinds of things happen in mma, but what if Gonzaga hadn't had his nose fractured? By round's end, when they were sitting, someone would have noticed Randy's broken (or at least fractured) forearm and thrown the towel.

That's just how it is, just ask Frank Shamrock who also got his courtesy of a kick.

What the hell will happen to him against mr. Bear?

EDIT: I don't think I'm being unreasonable here.

Nerds of an entirely different variety lurk here.

Altorin:
Nerds of an entirely different variety lurk here.

Yes they do. Hopefully none are "keyboard warriors."

I m not really interested, but it does seem truly stupid the way you put it, op.

However, things like this are why i don't like organized competitive sports all-together. Everything is just a popularity competition filled with advertisements and fake crap.

unabomberman:

Altorin:
Nerds of an entirely different variety lurk here.

Yes they do. Hopefully none are "keyboard warriors."

I got proof of my exploits to some extent online so luckily I don't qualify for this category of nerd.

unabomberman:
Just picture Randy being pummeled by mr. Bear, which is what will most likely happen, is it worth it? The answer is no. I'm not real excited about this. If Randy were like five or six years younger, then maybe, but as things stand right now, every fight with him is a gamble. After watching his last fight, when he beat Gonzaga, two weird things happened.

First, He got his forearm broken blocking a headkick by Gonzaga; and second, he slammed Gonzaga in the mat in such a way that caused him an accidental nose fracture. When they were both stood up Gonzaga couldn't see, breathe or do anything. Granted, Randy won that fair and square; those kinds of things happen in mma, but what if Gonzaga hadn't had his nose fractured? By round's end, when they were sitting, someone would have noticed Randy's broken (or at least fractured) forearm and thrown the towel.

That's just how it is, just ask Frank Shamrock who also got his courtesy of a kick.

What the hell will happen to him against mr. Bear?

EDIT: I don't think I'm being unreasonable here.

Hasn't he won more than one fight with a broken hand? I'm sure as long as he's still capable of moving his hand and arm, they would've let the fight continue. I mean, if he snapped his forearm in half, then yeah, they'd toss it. But if it were just a small fracture inside his arm, I'm sure things would have kept on.

And while the looming chance of Lesnar pummeling Couture is there (particularly if Lesnar catches him with one of those thunderous opening shots), I don't think its going to become one of those domination fights were Couture is just pummeled into the matts. I just can't see Randy going out like that, regardless of age.

Hasn't he won more than one fight with a broken hand? I'm sure as long as he's still capable of moving his hand and arm, they would've let the fight continue. I mean, if he snapped his forearm in half, then yeah, they'd toss it. But if it were just a small fracture inside his arm, I'm sure things would have kept on.

Ehm, nope. If something in the forearm is even remotely fractured you can't even apply pressure with your muscles due to pain, much less punch properly. Fedor gets his hands injured a lot, and according to him, that bothered during his fight with Mirko crocop. Maybe you can keep going just with the adrenaline rush, but if it's not addressed, the sole fact of still being punching can aggravate the problem greatly. And a fracture in the forearm is not THAT hard to miss. If the skin around the affected area suddenly starts to turn way redder then you have a problem, and the ringside doctors are bound to notice that.

And while the looming chance of Lesnar pummeling Couture is there (particularly if Lesnar catches him with one of those thunderous opening shots), I don't think its going to become one of those domination fights were Couture is just pummeled into the matts. I just can't see Randy going out like that, regardless of age.

I can see Randy going down like that, considering age. He's weaker, slower, and can't have as good cardio. If Lesnar doesn't get stupid and keeps his distance, he's toast. Even in striking Lesnar has reach advantage, even if Randy closes the distance, then what? single leg takedown? dirty boxing? against Mr. Bear who sent mr. Crazy horse flying through one side of the cage to another? Probably a leg lock or something of that variety, but I don't see Mr. Bear not learning anything from his second fight.

EDIT: I predict Mr. Bear in the first round by thorough pwning. Poor Randy.

unabomberman:

Hasn't he won more than one fight with a broken hand? I'm sure as long as he's still capable of moving his hand and arm, they would've let the fight continue. I mean, if he snapped his forearm in half, then yeah, they'd toss it. But if it were just a small fracture inside his arm, I'm sure things would have kept on.

Ehm, nope. If something in the forearm is even remotely fractured you can't even apply pressure with your muscles due to pain much less punch properly. Fedor gets his hands injured a lot, and according to him, that bothered during his fight with Mirko crocop. Maybe you can keep going just with the adrenaline rush, but if it's not addressed, the sole fact of still being punching can aggravate the problem greatly. And a fracture in the forearm is not THAT hard to miss. If the skin around the affected area suddenly starts to turn way redder then you have a problem, and the ringside doctors are bound to notice that.

And while the looming chance of Lesnar pummeling Couture is there (particularly if Lesnar catches him with one of those thunderous opening shots), I don't think its going to become one of those domination fights were Couture is just pummeled into the matts. I just can't see Randy going out like that, regardless of age.

I can see Randy going down like that, considering age. He's weaker, slower, and can't have as good cardio. If Lesnar doesn't get stupid and keeps his distance, he's toast. Even in striking Lesnar has reach advantage, even if Randy closes the distance, then what? single leg takedown? dirty boxing? against Mr. Bear who sent mr. Crazy horse flying through one side of the cage to another? Probably a leg lock or something of that variety, but I don't see Mr. Bear not learning anything from his second fight.

Well he still won somehow, so apparently he was able to deal with it.

And I suppose we just differ on opinion. I mean, I've seen Couture take on giants of men, and while Lesnar is definetly in a different league than most other fighters, I doubt he'll make short work of a man like Randy Couture. I'm not saying Randy can't lose to him, but I don't see it being easy for Lesnar.

Hey, there is totally nothing wrong with being a nerd for any kind of thing - anime, video games, music, movies, MMA.

the trick is, to recognize and embrace that that in fact is what it is.

it's liberating

Well he still won somehow, so apparently he was able to deal with it.

And I suppose we just differ on opinion. I mean, I've seen Couture take on giants of men, and while Lesnar is definetly in a different league than most other fighters, I doubt he'll make short work of a man like Randy Couture. I'm not saying Randy can't lose to him, but I don't see it being easy for Lesnar.

I don't remember ever saying it would be easy for Lesnar, what I'm saying is that the fight will be brief since I don't think Randy will be able to take that kind of punishment for long. Yes, he has taken giants of men before, but time has that nifty way of pissing people off and actually going forward. The age argument is, sadly, always, always valid no matter how proficient an athlete may or not be.

What you say was more than a year ago; to a man almost hitting his fifties that's a lot of time.

I'd just love to see Randy win this one, I really do, I just see this thing as a pointless exercise in business with potentially disastrous consequences. He doesn't have anything to prove anymore.

You could just as well throw Liddell in there and let him fend off Mr. Bear's takedown attempts. He's younger(though not by THAT much) and already expressed interest in going up in weight for the right fight. Plus, people would pay to watch that. Everybody wins and Randy doesn't get violated by Mr. Bear.

Brock Lesnar vs Kimbo Slice.

I want that to happen. Kimbo is made of massive.