Eggo:
So many of the speeches at this year's RNC centered, directly and indirectly, on small town values while at the same time, American conservatives try to paint liberals as upper class and exclusionary elitists.

Doesn't John McCain's wife have like 8 gigantic houses? Didn't they just deride Obama for being a community organizer? Aren't American conservative views best suited for maintaining socioeconomic disparity/stratification and keeping the status quo?

(Disclaimer: I'm a Post-Straussian neoconservative so I find both party lines and tactics to be simultaneously hilarious/depressing...I guess I'm just more upset with the Republicans for ruining what Strauss had to offer them)

Because its all they've got. They need to either drudge up the culture wars again, or loose in a landslide.

A large portion of America's voting population are white, Christian conservatives who reside in the small towns that dot the entirety of the United States. I used to live in one, and nothing gets them more riled up than dissonance such as the lack of religious conviction in individuals and homosexuality amongst them. They are a very dramatic bunch who make a big deal out of every small thing that is different than what they hold to be true.

Small town people don't like to associate with people they find 'unwholesome', including politicians. So its important that the Republicans, in order to get that vote, to express just how white and Christian and conservative they are compared to the gay lovin', anti-Jesus, baby-killin' liberals.

Ares Tyr:
gay lovin', anti-Jesus, baby-killin' liberals.

jejeje so... thats a liberal

Manipulation for the most part.

Eggo:
That's an awesome post (as always), Ares.

That's what happens when you hop aboard the straight talk express.

Ares Tyr:

Eggo:
That's an awesome post (as always), Ares.

That's what happens when you hop aboard the straight talk express.

Leaves at 5:15 from platform C every day. Don't miss it.

Surely a conservative (one who doesn't want change) would want things to stay how they were 'best', granted with small town values you cant have everything but making an uninformed link like modern times=crime thus oldern times=good and oldern times had more small time values.

But their politicians, if you can rationalize them in a forumlae etc you'd be in the money.

zirnitra:
Manipulation for the most part.

This is the correct answer. If the Democrats are America's well-meaning buffoons, Republican's are our evil overlords.

Republicans are asking the great majority of Americans to vote against their own interests, especially in economic terms. They know this. So they throw up "small-town values" as a smoke screen to sucker in simplistic voters.

How well does it work? Ask George W. Bush...

Ares Tyr:
A large portion of America's voting population are white, Christian conservatives who reside in the small towns that dot the entirety of the United States. I used to live in one, and nothing gets them more riled up than dissonance such as the lack of religious conviction in individuals and homosexuality amongst them. They are a very dramatic bunch who make a big deal out of every small thing that is different than what they hold to be true.

More detail here

I find it bizarre that the christian right is even consorting with the Republicans. Didn't Jesus invent the bread line?

Capitalistic free reign and christianity don't mix.

Eggo:
Why the vast majority of Americans keep voting against their own socioeconomic interests is mind boggling to me.

Because they are led to believe that gay marriage is a more important issue than the standard of living.

Those are "small-town values."

Eggo:

Why the vast majority of Americans keep voting against their own socioeconomic interests is mind boggling to me.

Socioecawha!?

Most people (in America, at least) don't view the world as a complex geopolitical game of Risk or understand how socioeconomic variables effect that. I still hear old people whine about how expensive everything is as if they don't understand how inflation works.

I also had an epiphony the other day realizing that most of the political issues that people discuss, in regards to the presidency, aren't even related to the roles of the job title. Primarily, I was miffed that my two options for president were Senators, not Governors. What the hell does a Senator know about assigning 14,000 job roles and building a Federal infrastructure from scratch? A bit of a tangent, but even people that are politically involved don't seem to really understand how things work.

Rooster Cogburn:

Eggo:
Why the vast majority of Americans keep voting against their own socioeconomic interests is mind boggling to me.

Because they are led to believe that gay marriage is a more important issue than the standard of living.

Those are "small-town values."

You're implying that the democrats have all the answers when it comes to socioeconomic problems? Don't make me laugh. You're talking about a party that attempts to fight past racism with present day racism (affirmative action), bigger government, socialized medicine, etc. People look at small towns as an example of self actualization. Conservatives are weary of things such as welfare not because they hate the poor but because it encourages the typical liberal attitude that the government should take care of everything for us.

Socialized medicine is another issue. Democrats try to act as if republicans are opposed to this because, again, they hate the poor (their usual explanation of any republican stance) when in reality it's because conservatives favor smaller government, lower taxes, more personal responsibility, and capitalism. It has been shown time and time again that the government is innefficent in everything it does, from the postal system to the space program (NASA has begun hiring contractors to create their next shuttle). Socializing medicine is just another addition to an already swelled government which will not only drive up the cost of medical coverage but drive down the quality of it.

And for those of you talking about the upper class republican fat cats, Democrats are just as much members of the exclusionary elite as the republicans, don't kid yourself there my friends.

Eggo:
So many of the speeches at this year's RNC centered, directly and indirectly, on small town values while at the same time, American conservatives try to paint liberals as upper class and exclusionary elitists.

Doesn't John McCain's wife have like 8 gigantic houses? Didn't they just deride Obama for being a community organizer? Aren't American conservative views best suited for maintaining socioeconomic disparity/stratification and keeping the status quo?

How do small town values help with understanding global politics and international economics? Will the skill of field dressing a moose help American soldiers in Fallujah?

(Disclaimer: I'm a Post-Straussian neoconservative so I find both party lines and tactics to be simultaneously hilarious/depressing...I guess I'm just more upset with the Republicans for ruining what Strauss had to offer them)

Eggo:

No one said that they weren't...?

It was implied. It was also implied that the republicans are always accusing democrats of being rich, which is complete bullshit - democrats are the party most responsible for that sort of mudslinging.

BallPtPenTheif:
I find it bizarre that the christian right is even consorting with the Republicans. Didn't Jesus invent the bread line?

Capitalistic free reign and christianity don't mix.

In a two-party system, the parties pretty much have to take an opposing stance on every issue. The issues also end up bundled together in sometimes-odd ways. Party identification results in fervor for one issue spilling over into fervor for other issues that the party supports.

The "big tent" of the modern Republican party has been described as a three-ring circus: war hawks, free-market capitalists, and religious social conservatives.

-- Alex

Alex_P:
In a two-party system, the parties pretty much have to take an opposing stance on every issue. The issues also end up bundled together in sometimes-odd ways. Party identification results in fervor for one issue spilling over into fervor for other issues that the party supports.

The "big tent" of the modern Republican party has been described as a three-ring circus: war hawks, free-market capitalists, and religious social conservatives.

-- Alex

Free Market Capitalism and War Hawks make sense together. Fuel and guns... yeehawww! But how in the hell does the religious right think they fit? Just totally bizarre.

Because the word conservative by nature means against change.

They want you to live in Mayberry, and that dissent is harmful.

Edit: Grats on your 1000th post Ballpen :)

BallPtPenTheif:

Alex_P:
In a two-party system, the parties pretty much have to take an opposing stance on every issue. The issues also end up bundled together in sometimes-odd ways. Party identification results in fervor for one issue spilling over into fervor for other issues that the party supports.

The "big tent" of the modern Republican party has been described as a three-ring circus: war hawks, free-market capitalists, and religious social conservatives.

-- Alex

Free Market Capitalism and War Hawks make sense together. Fuel and guns... yeehawww! But how in the hell does the religious right think they fit? Just totally bizarre.

In a way it really doesn't. One aspect of modern conservatism, libertarians, is opposed to the religious right. As enforcing those "small town values" promotes unnecessary government interference in our daily lives. I for one am just as baffled.

Mistah Kurtz:

People look at small towns as an example of self actualization.

YA!
It has nothing to do with people's uncertainty and fears about the future being flamed into an inferno and then given contrast by a overly-romanticized and sanitized vision of years past!

Mistah Kurtz:

when in reality it's because conservatives favor smaller government, lower taxes, more personal responsibility, and capitalism.

Nice job hero

Mistah Kurtz:

Socializing medicine is just another addition to an already swelled government which will not only drive up the cost of medical coverage but drive down the quality of it.

Yet it doesn't, you pay twice as much already, and you are middle-of-the-road in terms of quality?

Mistah Kurtz:

It was implied. It was also implied that the republicans are always accusing democrats of being rich, which is complete bullshit - democrats are the party most responsible for that sort of mudslinging.

Yaaa....
the most common attacked used against Mccain is that he's an elitist. oh wait....

Marbas:

In a way it really doesn't. One aspect of modern conservatism, libertarians, is opposed to the religious right. As enforcing those "small town values" promotes unnecessary government interference in our daily lives. I for one am just as baffled.

If the Christians really wanted progress they should hijack the Democratic party since those guys believe in federally moderating societies actions. I guess it's a good thing that most of them are homophobic or else they would get somewhere.

Imitation Saccharin :

Mistah Kurtz:

People look at small towns as an example of self actualization.

Mistah Kurtz:

when in reality it's because conservatives favor smaller government, lower taxes, more personal responsibility, and capitalism.

Nice job hero

Mistah Kurtz:

Socializing medicine is just another addition to an already swelled government which will not only drive up the cost of medical coverage but drive down the quality of it.

Yet it doesn't, you pay twice as much already, and you are middle-of-the-road in terms of quality?

Mistah Kurtz:

It was implied. It was also implied that the republicans are always accusing democrats of being rich, which is complete bullshit - democrats are the party most responsible for that sort of mudslinging.

Yaaa....
the most common attacked used against Mccain is that he's an elitist. oh wait....

Liberal media stations and newspapers constantly portray Mccain as a snobby old angry tycoon, when in reality it's Obama that's the real megalomaniac. (Replacing the american flag with a giant O? Give me a break.)

We pay incredible costs for health care here not because it isn't socialized, but because our health insurance system is fucked. Hospitals charge 20 bucks for an aspirin or a box of tissues. No one knows what they pay at the hospital when they have insurance, and the truth is that most doctors don't even know. The answer isn't to hand the problem over to the government (who are so GREAT at handling other problems) but to make some serious changes to the health insurance system.

Also, not sure what you meant by the 'nice job here' remark, but republicans are typically more pro-capitalism. Democrats call for more government involvement in businesses, more equal distribution of wealth, things like that - you'd be surprised how similar the democratic parties positions are to the communist party of america.

YA!
It has nothing to do with people's uncertainty and fears about the future being flamed into an inferno and then given contrast by a overly-romanticized and sanitized vision of years past!

It also has nothing to do with the rejection of the culture of crime you find in big cities (re - hip hop culture). True that people tend to romanticize the past, but I'd rather live in that imperfect environment than live in environment that tells it's children that gangbanging, robbing, murder, and treating women like whores is what real men do.

BallPtPenTheif:

Marbas:

In a way it really doesn't. One aspect of modern conservatism, libertarians, is opposed to the religious right. As enforcing those "small town values" promotes unnecessary government interference in our daily lives. I for one am just as baffled.

If the Christians really wanted progress they should hijack the Democratic party since those guys believe in federally moderating societies actions. I guess it's a good thing that most of them are homophobic or else they would get somewhere.

So let me get this straight...

Democrats = Thought police and morality by force

Republicans = Fear of change and alliance with the religious nuts

Libertarians = Watch starving people without the slightest emotion because they seem to think helping your fellow man is the most horrible quality in the world.

What if you believe something that doesn't gel with any of those extremes? Who the fuck do you vote for then?

I for one am voting for Obama. If for no other reason that to tell the rest of the world America wants to be friends again.

Thought... I wonder how Scientologists vote? I would also like to express me happiness at the fact scientologist and scientology both appear as misspelled words :)

Ixus Illwrath:

BallPtPenTheif:

Marbas:

In a way it really doesn't. One aspect of modern conservatism, libertarians, is opposed to the religious right. As enforcing those "small town values" promotes unnecessary government interference in our daily lives. I for one am just as baffled.

If the Christians really wanted progress they should hijack the Democratic party since those guys believe in federally moderating societies actions. I guess it's a good thing that most of them are homophobic or else they would get somewhere.

So let me get this straight...

Democrats = Thought police and morality by force

Republicans = Fear of change and alliance with the religious nuts

Libertarians = Watch starving people without the slightest emotion because they seem to think helping your fellow man is the most horrible quality in the world.

What if you believe something that doesn't gel with any of those extremes? Who the fuck do you vote for then?

I for one am voting for Obama. If for no other reason that to tell the rest of the world America wants to be friends again.

Edit: Libertarians are more inclined against charity for the same reason that republicans are against welfare - it discourages self reliance. I'm sure all libertarians aren't 100% anti charity, but the government CERTAINLY shouldn't be collecting tax dollars to give to charities. Other people's problems are not my responsibility, and my problems aren't other people's responsibility. That's not to say I never give to charity, i throw my dollar at the salvation army Santa every Christmas like everyone else does, but giving to charities is something you should be COMPELLED to do, not something you should be FORCED to do.

What in the FUCK do you mean by the notion that voting for Obama says to the rest of the world that we want to be friends?

When people think small town values, they think of the pseudo-lives of people you would find in 50s propaganda. Also, they think big cities are filled with gay, interracial, atheist, couples that drive around in hybrids and bicycles eating vegan/vegetarian food while protesting everything Republicans love.