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Copy Clerk  Posts: 91 Joined: 4 Sep 2008     | |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1099 Joined: 22 Jun 2008     |
QED. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1123 Joined: 17 Jun 2008     | I smack little kids every day after they come out of the sweat shop/torture room so that they can eat their infected dinner. They then go back down and work throughout the night while occasionally getting whipped. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 79 Joined: 17 Aug 2008    | As long as it's the last resort I'm fine with it. If you have the kind of kid that will hold their breath until they get what they want, even if it literaly causes brain damage, or the kind that outright refuses to do anything you tell them because of some authority issue, spank 'em. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3503 Joined: 25 Jan 2008  |
Like what? All the non-physical hippie crap ideas I've ever heard have failed. Now we have a generation of never-told-no brats going into the workforce and treating their jobs like a joke, thinking everything should be handed to them on a platinum plate. Following the "Don't smack your child" generation are the pill poppers. Children being dosed with anti-depressants and Ritalin who are so mal-adjusted that they're liable to snap and go all Virginia-Tech on people, or have a heart attack the first time they see something they aren't accustomed to.
Second! My gods SECOND! I'm not saying the solution to every situation is to hit a child. I am totally against abusive behavior and unwarranted punishment, but compare our current generations to that of our parents (or grandparents for the offspring of knocked-up teens). In school, if you were disobedient, you got punished. For minor things, a time out with the dunce hat to make you a social pariah, an object of ridicule and scorn. Oh, but that ruins a child's self esteem and scars them for life says psychiatrist hippie liberal bitch... No it doesn't. Humiliation is a GOOD learning tool, and even better, it's not physical. A child publicly humiliated for his misdeeds is less likely to repeat those actions, and while he may get teased for it, the other children know that if they go too far with it, it will be THEIR turn on the dunce stool. The idea that children are so emotionally fragile is such lunacy. Yes, children get emotional scars, just as they get physical ones. But scars heal, and life goes on. Learning to deal with these scars while young means they will be more emotionally stable than someone who is traumatized at a later age and has no idea how to cope. And caning or spanking in school... BRING IT BACK. Children should fear and respect all forms of authority, because if they don't learn to fear authority as a child, they will never respect authority as an adult. Teachers have gone from powerful figures to victims of their students, they can't even touch a kid without fear, while kids can terrorize the class. People say beating kids is from the dark ages, well I think the way schools are today IS the dark ages. Education is a joke, kids don't want to learn and teachers just want the kids out of there, because nobody has control of the situation. And again, it reflects in the workforce coming from these schools. 10 employees today aren't worth 1 good employee from 20 years ago. People in general, outside of work, are likewise insufferable pricks who think everything exists for their pleasure.
That story doesn't give us all the details to form a judgement with. Was your aunt a single mother, or could the father have hit him instead? How old was the son? Old enough to kick out of the house, because the physical punishment route only works until they're grown. It's a tool to instill proper behavior, and a last-resort one, not to be used for just any minor offense. If the "kid" is past the age where it works, the next punishment level is the inevitable "go live on your own if you aren't going to live by the rules of this house" method. There is also the sad truth that nothing works for 100% of the people. But if you instill respect and fear into your child properly, not just physical pain but a true sense of authority, it will get to the point where as a child gets older, the need for a smack lessens. If you still need to hit your child by the time he/she turns 12, you've failed somewhere along the way. It's an early-development punishment, to drive home the fact that parents are in charge, not a life-long tool to penalize anything and everything.
Perfect example where it was needed.
You say that, but the current state of kids proves otherwise. I have known people who didn't believe in hitting their kids. Most of them are now either being terrorized by their now-grown-up children, or their children are in jail for minor crimes and stupid shit. Now to be very VERY clear on this Hitting your child must be for an infraction WORTHY of hitting them over, and applicable to their age, with the strength and/or type of smack fitting both age and offense. A 5-year-old who drops the F-Bomb, a mild spanking. A 5-year-old who took a kitchen knife and stabbed a cat and/or his lil sister, a harsh spanking. A 5-year-old who spilled his dinner, don't you dare fucking touch him. The problem with physical punishment is it requires common sense, and we all know it's not common. But it works, works better than anything else in fact. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3849 Joined: 26 Feb 2008    | Khell tells it like it is, once again... |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2595 Joined: 10 Apr 2007  | All corporeal punishment is a human rights abuse. Children are humans That's about all there is to it. If you need to hit your kid, you've already failed as a parent. The funny thing is, the people who talk about how important physical discipline is? Those are some of the most badly behaved, immature adults I've encountered. I don't think that's a coincidence. Now that I think about it, just look at the world. Ever notice that the most advanced countries with the literate and politically enfranchised citizens tend to be the countries that have turned away from corporeal punishment? Think that's a coincidence? |
Copy Clerk Posts: 91 Joined: 4 Sep 2008 | Khell you've summed it up perfectly. Pretty much verbatim to what I was thinking. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1730 Joined: 13 Feb 2008  |
That's nothing. I don't even give them the dinner. I make them eat the infected mold raw. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2595 Joined: 10 Apr 2007 |
I think though, in certain African wildlife preserves they've been able to bring out of control adolescent elephants into line just by exposing them to mature bull elephants: no physical discipline required, just role-modeling. In any case, democracy has no foundation in the animal kingdom, yet lots of us hope that will work. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2595 Joined: 10 Apr 2007 |
No one can instill respect and fear--they are mutually exclusive. Fear is simply a desire to not get caught breaking a rule. Respect is the desire to live up to a rule. In short, respect comes from recognizing the value of a rule, while fear is finding no value in a rule but only in the consequence of being caught breaking it. That's why corporeal punishment doesn't work--it teaches the wrong lesson. It teaches fear, not respect. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1123 Joined: 17 Jun 2008 |
I give them excessive paper cuts every morning and then pour salt on them to wake them up. I also installed moving walls that can close in with the press of the button to instill fear along with the spikes in the ceiling that slowly move down. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1730 Joined: 13 Feb 2008 |
Ok this is becoming very creepy. It's like a who's-more-sadistic contest. Salt in the morning? I make them sleep in sacks of salt and lemon juice after the paper cuts. I also have auto-whips set up to whip them every time they talk to each other. They wear auto-whip harnesses at all times. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2075 Joined: 12 May 2008   |
The scariest thing just happened. I reached for the phone to call child services, but right before I pressed talk, it rang. I answered it, and a voice said "Don't.". I now fear for my life. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 209 Joined: 20 May 2008 | hittin children is good teach em a lesson i volunteer alot with young children for my church and now a days kids have absolutely no discipline it's ridiculous |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1123 Joined: 17 Jun 2008 |
I have sharp fans rotating at low areas so that if they try to move around they'll be cut quite nicely. You should see it when I cut off one of their legs, throw it to the others and tell them to kill that kid with the leg. Also I obtain samples of horrible diseases, mix them together and put it into their food. Hilarity ensues.
If you try it again the consequences will be severe. |
Muckraker  Posts: 297 Joined: 23 Jul 2008 |
I think you're looking just a little too shortly on the matter. The ultimate goal in discipline is to establish a "desire to live up to a rule," (respect) but that behavior has to be taught. Even though fear and respect don't go together, fear CAN lead to respect if used properly. By playing off a child's desire to avoid punishment, you can (hopefully) open up the child's eyes to the rest of the world, and explain to the child the true merit of the rules. My point is, respect doesn't just jump out from nowhere. It needs a solid foundation, something humanly familiar to build upon, and fear is easily accessible. As are guilt, humiliation, shame, etc. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1730 Joined: 13 Feb 2008 |
Horrible diseases, eh? I keep rabid bears in the same place my children sleep in their salt sacks. Every night, after the shipment of children stuffed in boxes filled with scorpions, I count them. If there are fifty children, I put out forty-eight sacks of salt. See, the salt hides their scent from the bears. In the salt room I place various jagged, pointed objects and turn out the lights. There is a timer set to release the bears after one minute. The bears never need feeding. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2595 Joined: 10 Apr 2007 |
There's a difference between a desire to avoid punishment and actual fear. Fear is an emotional state of distress. A desire to avoid punishment is a calm, rational decision that doesn't preclude respect in the way fear does.
I wouldn't call those solid foundations, though. I'd call all of those foundations that only make the later collapse even more catastrophic. And like you said, they are the 'easy' way out. The hard way is much better in the long run, one that builds on things like the natural altruism that basically all primates have. |
Muckraker  Posts: 333 Joined: 12 Apr 2008 | There is a fine line of the subject. While im all for smackign an 8 year old on the back of the head (lightly please! we only want them surpirsed not hurt)for doing some thing increbly stupid but not dangerus. I do how ever have issue with having the physical being the punishment in and of it self. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1899 Joined: 6 Aug 2008 | I think a small smack at the appropriate moment can work, though if you always do it then that's wrong. For instance you have to teach your child to react to you saying stop, if they don't you warn them, if they continue a smack on the hand or bottom tells them that they cannot do that in future, if they even start you say keep doing that and i will smack you. My parents did this and it worked quite well. Though i want to hear what most people here consider a "smack", i consider it the same thing as a slap on the hand, while some people here define it as abuse. |
BANNED  Posts: 827 Joined: 9 Aug 2008   | What I hate about the mindset of parents in America these days is that they feel a need to become their child's friend. What?? Why?? A parent has ONE responsibility and only ONE. To provide food, water, warm clothes and a bed to sleep in. User was banned for: I've been pawned..... T__T. (7 days) |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 703 Joined: 6 Apr 2008 |
Well, full force open palm in the case of my parents. My younger brothers and sisters...ehh, the wooden spoon, yeah... Although, before I moved out, I did notice a drop off in actual physical violence. Now they just shout at each other, a lot. I suppose this is both to do with that a: My brothers are now in their early teens, which...may give them some notion of retaliation, and I guess my parents realise that too. And b: They're also caught up somewhat with the notion that you just don't do that to children any more, as said moving along with the times. I was kind of resentful however. When I was younger, after my mother and father had divorced, we moved about a bit, and then moved out and away from our home town. Then of course she meets my stepfather. He's wasn't an overly mean spirited person, but I didn't take it very well. I must have been 6 or 7 I guess. Anyway...of course I start bed-wetting, heh even shat myself once or twice, now key at this point, you may think oh, perfect time to console your child and find out what's wrong right? Nope. Got hit, choked (not seriously, but with force) and what culminated in myself being paraded in front of my mother in a diaper. Now...at 7 years old, this is a most horrifically humiliating thing to do to a child, or at least to my mind. But hey, it worked, don't recall ever soiling myself after that. Too busy thinking up ever more elaborate ways to murder, torture and maim my stepfather. Of course, I eventually came to the realisation that, enacting any such criminal acts would not only demean me, but would in essence allowing him to 'win'. So, humiliation does work eh? ;D |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 4577 Joined: 13 Feb 2008     |
To a point... There's a number of adults who take great pleasure in bullying kids, and there's a line that has to be trod. Smacking the kid for everything will backfire badly when they reach puberty. To those that don't agree with smacking, how would you 'inform' a 2 year old about not pulling that boiling kettle down? |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1927 Joined: 15 Jun 2008 |
There is a big difference between disciplining a child, and bullying/ beating them. Physical discipline must be consistent if you're going to use it at all. I was beaten, and it leaves a horrible, quite lasting impression on you. I'm reluctant to use physical discipline on any of my future children for that reason. There are ways to discipline children without resorting to smacking- Jo "Supernanny" Frost has demonstrated this quite admirably. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 3503 Joined: 25 Jan 2008 | Seems like some people here (won't say who) seem to take our/my/the approval for physical discipline as an intent to hit a child for everything they do wrong. I'm not here preaching that hitting a child is a cure-all or even a good method of punishment. I'm trying to say that in the big bag of parental controls, it should be on the list. Think of it as a sliding scale, with minor "bad" things on one end, and major bad behavior/acts on the other end. Hitting a child would fall in somewhere around an 8/10 offense, like bullying another kid or throwing rocks through the neighbor's windshield. As I said, parenting takes common sense... Most people don't have this sense, it really isn't common at all, and we're all damned because of it. But to think you can raise your child without ever raising your hand to them, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM. YOU are the type of parent who has raised this horrible, horrible batch of brats that all deserve a 64th Trimester Abortion. The kinds of kids who throw a temper tantrum in the middle of a store, start screaming obscenities at their parents and proclaiming they hate them and wish they were dead, as they throw items off the shelves and start kicking passing customers... I've seen these kids, and the mothers that raised them. Those kids need a good asswhooping, and the parents too. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 220 Joined: 20 Feb 2008 |
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My parents used to smack me and I've turned out fine *twitch*