No regulations! |
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23.2% (19) |
Some regulations, like we have now. |
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47.6% (39) |
Regulate everything. |
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29.3% (24) |
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Beat Writer Posts: 132 Joined: 14 Feb 2008     | |
Muckraker  Posts: 342 Joined: 17 Apr 2008    | too much regulation strangles industrys. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 356 Joined: 8 Dec 2007  | Isn't the point of capitalism that one guy can claw his way to the top and make everyone else bow down to him? It's like insecure, materilistic people with god-complexes made it up or something... oh, wait. Why don't we just let capitalism crumble and try to make something new? |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 735 Joined: 12 Apr 2008  | Complete deregulation can work within Rand economics, while the magical fairy of wonderful things descends from the hand of God to show Karl Marx the map which he will use to take us to the delightful land of marshmellows and jelly. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3647 Joined: 25 Jan 2008     | Just put me in charge. I have yet to see a single politician with a brain or common sense, I have both. I will rule the nation with an iron fist, all in the name of a better life for the common joe. Also, I'll outlaw Rap. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 419 Joined: 1 Aug 2008 | the only regulation that is needed is anti monopoly/anti trust laws. Other than that the government should stay out. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 821 Joined: 23 Dec 2007   | You already made one very dangerous enemy Khell- me. Without Rap, I wouldn't have the 'Crank that' Travis Barker remix. Or the Gorrilaz. Which would irk me to no end. And besides, Iam plotting to take over the world. I have a brain (a damn good one at that, though I say so myself), common sense, a small cabal, and, more importantly, a policy that does not offend nearly every black, hispanic (other minority groups). Cover before the wrath of Marshal Fondant, for he is most cruel. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1478 Joined: 27 Mar 2008  | If you want to see an example of "free market" capitalism, look at modern China. Not so hot... -- Alex |
Press Junketeer Posts: 419 Joined: 1 Aug 2008 |
So a country where everything is government run is 'free market'? |
Paperboy  Posts: 35 Joined: 15 May 2008 | 'Mixed economies' tend to be the best choice for an economic system. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 70 Joined: 6 Aug 2008  | If I remember my economics correctly the more a government likes to fuck with the economy(like tariff, tax etc)the more dead space and lost efficiency there is. All the government should do is slap around the trusts and monopolies because free markets have to stay competitive. Here is the way the world works, big business is the crap that holds the world together no matter how much it stinks. You are not special, you are not unique. Get over it. Just smile and act like the peasant you are and get your meager amounts of money to live off of. The top two percent that hold ninety percent of America's income is not going to share it. Sorry how scattered that is, but I'm going to sleep now. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1478 Joined: 27 Mar 2008 |
The Chinese government has an ideological fear of interfering with businesses as long as those businesses are just trying to make a profit. They're very hands-off economically these days. -- Alex |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 65 Joined: 20 Sep 2008 | Is that the reason all the stuff is made over there? due to cheap labour and the government taking now part in the economy |
Paperboy Posts: 35 Joined: 15 May 2008 |
Yeah... that's about it. Planned economies don't work well economically, but free markets also have their downsides, (e.g. Monopolies, gaps between rich and poor.) The middle ground is the right place to be. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1627 Joined: 18 Sep 2007    | The problem isn't one of noble entrepeneurs/public-servants vs. vile bureaucrats/capitalists, it's one of big vs. little. The more you concentrate power, the more prone that power is to abuse. You need to diffuse that power, balance it, so that you don't get a minority using its concentrated power to tyranise the majority. Whether it's government or corporate doesn't matter, it's the concentration of power that's the problem and why you need limits on both regulation and market-freedom. Why do Randians feel that big corporations are any more trustworthy than big governments, and why do Marxists feel the reverse? Governments and corporations are both human institutions, prone to the same human foibles when confronted with ultimate power. A balance of powers keeps both useful while limiting their potential frightfulness. -- Steve |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1627 Joined: 18 Sep 2007 |
I think they learned that with Mao's "Great Leap Forward" program in the '70s, the economic equivalent to the '60s "Cultural Revolution". It was a governmental attempt to decentralise industry along Marxist lines but at a low technological level... so you had small, cottage-industry metal foundries for instance. It was a disaster, arguably setting China back economically about twenty years because in order to meet the steel quota, for instance, these small foundries resorted to scrapping existing tools to melt down into (contaminated, because they were under "comply or die" time pressure) ingots. Ever since the powers behind the "Great Leap Forward" died off, their Central Committee has been more favourable to "hands-off" economic management. -- Steve |
Muckraker  Posts: 343 Joined: 17 Apr 2008  |
A number of Taiwanese say that the mainlanders simply refer to it as "The Chinese Way" to sidestep ridding themselves of the populist slogans. Corruption is rife within the gov't in Beijing meaning bribery of officials for business favors is common. |
Beat Writer Posts: 132 Joined: 14 Feb 2008 |
Hard work doesn't gaurentee you will be rich though. look at paris hilton. she was born into money, and din't have to work for a dime of it. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1410 Joined: 11 Jun 2008 |
Because socialism and communism are not new and so far they have failed. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1410 Joined: 11 Jun 2008 |
"Work smarter not harder." - Scrooge McDuck |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1495 Joined: 2 Jan 2008     | It's a good thing we have all these high schoolers who wandered onto the Escapist forums in order to solve all of the world's economic problems. (Don't post to let me know that you're not in High School, I don't care) |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2652 Joined: 22 Jun 2008   |
The only thingy remotely like communism is stalinism. I think you are getting it wrong, Communism has not ever been tested. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1410 Joined: 11 Jun 2008 |
To the fullest degree... no, it hasn't. But we have seen enough inspired iterations of it to understand why the concept doesn't create the most robust economy or standard of living. I mean I can say the same trite notion about a true free market never really existing but that would be pointless. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2652 Joined: 22 Jun 2008 |
And until we get uncorruptable people/Robots as the government it will never work. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1410 Joined: 11 Jun 2008 |
I still think that the psychology of the work force would suffer. Some people just aren't inspired to grind away in the middle for the masses. Addittionally, asking people who live from a singular subjective perspective of reality to grasp the overall causality of their actions is a bit too much to ask. Hell, i feel ripped off when i buy gas because i can't see the gas going in with my own two eyes. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 476 Joined: 9 Sep 2008 | i will fight my urge to respond to this topic in the way i want to (would be a page long essay every two pages and i dont have time for that) just read some god damn books and youll see why regulation is always bad for the economics you can start with "Liberalism" by Ludwig von Mises |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1011 Joined: 1 Dec 2007 |
Except for all those times it worked. |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 566 Joined: 27 Aug 2008 |
I've got to poke a whole in your argument here, unfortunately: while yes it's true that both governments and corporations are human institutions, they are not prone to the same foibles. In a democracy, the governments have an incentive to keep the masses happy: staying in power. That's opposed to big corporations which, when in a free market, have every incentive to fuck everyone over, all in the name of profits. So yeah, when it comes to economics I trust the government one hell of a lot more than corporations.
When the hell did half of Europe and China fail? Did I miss a newsletter? |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1410 Joined: 11 Jun 2008 |
Perhaps "failed" was too strong of a term. You get the the idea though and I don't believe we need to rally around the semantics. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1011 Joined: 1 Dec 2007 |
Socialism has succeeded and failed at different times and places, like capitalism. Your point is untrue. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2652 Joined: 22 Jun 2008 |
Add in the fact that the government is practically ran by corporations.(PAC funding during the presidential campaign for favors later, Lobbyists.) |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1367 Joined: 12 Sep 2007   |
She actually does work - she has clothing lines, perfume lines, I don't know what all (not a follower of pop culture other than to curse the news at the idea that people would purchase a perfume because Paris Hilton approved/wears/designed it.) She has a better energy policy than McCain or Obama. And people pay her thousands of dollars to show up at parties. (And yes, those people should be hunted down and beaten until dead.) However, your refutation of sneakypenguin's point is flawed. You state that hard work won't necessarily make you rich (which is true, but it really, really helps), but your example instead proves that it's not ONLY hard work which can make you rich; there's always dumb luck. A totally unregulated economy would be the most wealthy overall, but that wealth would be distributed very unevenly. Probably a totally unregulated economy would lead to a Marxist revolution and thus a heavily regulated economy. Even during ancient and medieval times there was economic regulation - standardized weights, measures and composition, fixed prices, labor laws, fixed wages, give and take between royalty and/or central government versus townfolk/merchant class versus aristocracy/local government. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1367 Joined: 12 Sep 2007 |
Thou art wise beyond thy years, however they may be numbered. A wiser, truer post I've not read, even counting my own, and I can add nothing but praise. |
Copy Clerk | |
You know how the republicans are constantly going on about "Deregulation" being the key to creating a strong economy?
Well,once upon a time in America's history, we had a completely unregulated economy. During the late 1800s and early 1900s, we had almost no regulations on the economy. Yay, everyone will be prosperous and wealthy! No!
What happened was, essentially, one company in each industry bought out or other wise destroyed all of it's competitors, then bought the rail roads used to ship it's products, then bought the raw material suppliers.they created monopolies, and pretty much could charge as much money as they wanted to.
But worse were the average middle class citizens. They were working in factories, living in private factory communities, being payed amounts less than a dollar a day. The companies had complete control over their lives, If they quit, they had almost no where else to go, and not only that, because they lived in factory housing, they also were out of a house.
Eventually, after many year of unionizing, and getting the government to actually do something, these companies were shrunk down and broken apart.
But the problem remains that if you leave the economy completely unregulated, the strongest (Richest) individuals will rise to the top and control everything, and everyone else will be destroyed.
I personally advocate the system we have set up now as being as close to perfect as were going to get, as soon as we figure out the health care issue. We have a system where the individual is still protected and can be treated fairly, however people can rise above the rest and achieve the fantastic wealth of the top 1%.