| (Pages: 1, 2) | |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1257 Joined: 29 Dec 2007     | |
Press Junketeer Posts: 411 Joined: 15 Dec 2007    |
and with a huge smile on the face. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 156 Joined: 18 Sep 2008    |
You got put on probation for that? These nazi admins do my head in |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 709 Joined: 12 Apr 2008 | Does anyone here have any experience with Anita Blake novels? There pretty much challenging Twilight for the biggest author self-insertion.
Deep characters have something else, a complexity, a contradiction. Batman for example is simply someone who fights crime but his depth comes from the ethics of his methods and motivations; http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/e/e1/Batman_Alignment.jpg aside from bottom center and bottom right batman conforms to the archetypes in this poster, which is one way of expressing the depth of his character, although in such geeky terms of course, this is the internet. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1928 Joined: 15 Jun 2008   |
Yep. Does that mean the author is a colossal slag then? Gothdammit, I used to love those books... |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 709 Joined: 12 Apr 2008 | She is a colossal slag who enslaves you with sex powers. And she probably has a hell of a lot of STDs. Actually further thought would be that she provides 40-50% of the income for the local pharmacies on the sale of contraceptives. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2052 Joined: 14 Sep 2007   |
Yeah! Romantic Terrorist Two-Player Prayer! |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 935 Joined: 10 Sep 2008    |
I agree 'Salems lot was a great book, also two great short stories were written with the same name but one has nothing to do with vampires if I remember correctly. |
Muckraker  Posts: 327 Joined: 8 Apr 2008  |
Kafka? Normal Character (has a select audience) - {subtract} Normal Enviroment + {add}Extrordinary Situtaion * {multiplied} by a love intrest and thier perfect ability to be a perfect match to the main character ^ {To the power of} what mystical properties they (Character and love intrest) have *{multiply again} the number of people competing for the love intrest plus 1 / {divided} by how crazy the Author (and / or publisher) are *{multiply all that} by how much Drama is involved by media and in book Follow this formula and you'll be writing crap for teenagers that overshadow good teenager books like "The Feed" |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3967 Joined: 24 Apr 2008    |
But like smoking and taking drugs, the fact that we can write such things to make us feel good does not mean we should. Books like this can exist happily, but when it is lauded above what it is at its core and becomes a substitute for true literary pursuit... it ceases to be a boon and is now a blight. Like drugs, it would not be so bad if they did not displace other more important factors of literature. Also, there is no way you can be defending the cheapness of the Bella ploy... the Mary-Sue/Woobie (Thanks to Msh for making me go and educate myself on all of these damn terms... not) one-two punch is an insult to the readers intelligence. In a world where people hate bratz on principle... this is allowed to exist unchallenged? Madness! Disclaimer: In no way do i compare Twilight to Bratz, i simply find that the media has not caught onto this story is laughable... but there's less to milk from a book... |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 469 Joined: 14 May 2008 |
Seriously? I see female vampires seducing men led only by lust all the freaking time. In fact, I'm rather sure that's a more solid stereotype with sexy-vampires as opposed to scary ones. That's been in place longer than our romantic notions of male vampires simply because women were always made out to be evil. And as a side-note, I don't enjoy how much this series has been blown out of proportion either. Fangirls just need something new to cream themselves over now that Harry Potter's said and done. The Twilight series has come to a close, and the obsessively clingy fangirls will move on to writing bad fanfiction about some other series. I do enjoy Twilight and read the first book long before it was popular- they're good books, I identified with Bella (to say the least, lol. I told my father when I was younger after I'd finished Dracula that I would marry a vampire and that there was nothing he could do about it, lmao) The vampires were well done with some new twists, such as their exposure to sunlight, and the werewolf-shifters were new and offered a world besides the romantic vampire one. The only thing that really irked me was the first two parts of the last book- I felt let down, like the ending should've been more epic than this, but Part 3 delivered. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 141 Joined: 3 Oct 2007  |
I guess I can see where your coming from, but I disagree and offer you a rebuttal! The human mind is capable of many things, everyday we transition between emotions based on how we see the world and how we react to it. To say that all humanity is based on simple desires seems like a fairly narrow way to view the world. On the surface, we can shove off anything ANYTHING with a simple answer, however, the who what and why behind these simple answers can be in themselves very "deep". I think thats one of the biggest huddles with creating a genuine character, often we want to be able to see into their thoughts, but too often authors fail to do this. Instead an attempt to create intreige is used, based off very primitive emotions such as "anger, pain, rage, ect" this KILLs a charecter in my opinion, because when this strategy is used it often doesnt add the layer of dept the author is looking for and instead leads to more and more....and more, cliches "check some writting forums, you'll get an idea of what i'm going for". |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 704 Joined: 13 Aug 2008  | I think people keep harping on new characters that keep coming out because, after thousands of years of storytelling, it is safe to say that almost all of the good ideas have been used, most to the point of being beyond cliche. For me, I've stopped expecting characters to be deep. Instead, I prefer a story with a deep setting, one with a developed background. For example, one of the reasons I like Mass Effect is because they developed an entire universe as a setting, with fully-developed details. They even describe how the guns fire without running out of ammo, and the exact details behind how the shields work. That is what I consider to be deep. It is extremely difficult to create a fully fleshed out character and background without using an overly-long flashback, which most people consider to be annoying. Another example of deep settings would have to be Forgotten Realms, but that has gotten far more deep as it's been around a long time. |
Beat Writer Posts: 141 Joined: 3 Oct 2007 |
well it starts with one eager witters struggle to be original...to show the "all together now...OTHER SIDE" of a popular staple in some sort of area or another, it appeals to those looking for something new and intriguing.......it ends with bad spin-offs I can understand not making a vampire evil, giving them a back story and what not, hell I was making a sort of mock-parody-esk thingy up in my mind aboot such things " Dracuals the social equivalent of the guy from the 700 club, zombies are a sort of children toy for parties, ect" but we live in an age where being over the top and impulsive is "hip" with the kids. Mix in emo drama and proven source material, and you will have a fad.......a horrible.......horrible fad. |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 709 Joined: 12 Apr 2008 |
Arrrgh Emo Batman!?! Robin cutting himself?! Arrggh! bad mental image. |
Muckraker  Posts: 265 Joined: 17 May 2007 | You use that phrase in the title. I do not think it relates to the topic like you think it does. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 903 Joined: 27 Jan 2008   |
"What does the word deep mean to others?" is what I'm asking. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2501 Joined: 3 Mar 2008  |
Or one where there's this vampire who all the girls fall in love with, but he eats them all. I mean, vampires are vampires. They're not supposed to be lovey-dovey watchers in the night, they're supposed to be the garlic fearing, blood-sucking horrors, courtesy of the Brothers Grimm (I think). They're a bedtime story to warn the kids not to go outside in the middle of the night, not figures of a teenage girl's unfulfillable desires. Well, enough derailing. I think a deep character is one you can relate to. One whose actions would be your own, if you were in that situation. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2934 Joined: 22 Aug 2008  |
I never got that really. As I understand it, vampires don't have heartbeats, right? So how do they, you know, get the blood pumping? For the sex, I mean. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2501 Joined: 3 Mar 2008 |
They don't. That's what I'm trying to say. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2934 Joined: 22 Aug 2008 |
But that doesn't make sense...if nothing else, how do the vampires in Buffy and Angel get it up then :( *sigh* poor impotent James Marsters and David Boreanaz. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2501 Joined: 3 Mar 2008 | Wait a second... Why are we talking about the anatomy of a vampire? They don't exist, you do realise. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2934 Joined: 22 Aug 2008 |
What? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Heh. I never get tired of posting that link. I just find it funny that the anatomy of a vampire makes giant glaring plotholes in all of this wishy-washy vampire eroticism. Well, and Buffy and Angel. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2501 Joined: 3 Mar 2008 |
Never seen them. And by the way, Darth Vader doing a Frankenstein? I think you're on to something. The missing link? [/derailment] |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1030 Joined: 6 Mar 2008  |
Well, I think that the Vampire: The Masquerade roleplaying game has a pretty good explanation for this. The sorts of vampires that seduce their prey by being attractive have more humanity (a higher Humanity rating, stats-wise), and so they can pass for being human easier. They can take their blood and through concentrating, make their bodies do "human" things - they can give themselves a more healthy-looking complexion, pretend to eat food when normally it would make them sick, and even "get it up" when they need to. Think of it like a predator that has special mechanisms to allow it to get close to it's prey. And apologies to the TC for this derailment. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 175 Joined: 6 Aug 2008 |
Rigor mortise |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 903 Joined: 27 Jan 2008 | |
Press Junketeer Posts: 411 Joined: 15 Dec 2007 | well, im not sure but... some powerful vampires are capable of shape shift no? maybe they use it somehow |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2052 Joined: 14 Sep 2007 |
Man, this thread is getting disturbing. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1126 Joined: 22 Jun 2008 |
Yes. Yes it is. Isn't it great? :D |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2260 Joined: 3 Apr 2008    | every thread get's disturbing eventually |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1928 Joined: 15 Jun 2008 |
They feed, apparently, at least in the Anita Blake books (otherwise their hearts don't beat, they have no blood pressure and low body temperature.) |
| (Pages: 1, 2) | |
Reply to Thread
|
|
I would like to comment on this interesting topic, but the title means I can't stop thinking about the princess bride.
I like deep character, if they are simple then I get the feeling that *this* is all there is and I get bored. But I have no idea what makes characters deep, or rather I don't know how to make deep characters.