Just going back to the first page and the whole "chance" thing. Law of statistics says that, as the universe is Infinitley large (infinity being the lagest number we care to use ) there is an infinite amount of ways things could happen so yes. It was all just chance and coincidence. and really... watch Nat Geo they explained how they created life from 3 common elements or something anda bit of electricity.

In summary Yes. Chance did it.
/ end long rant

Well the funny thing is that religion/spirituality/philosophy doesn't ever answer how our universe works, but instead tries to cope with the why. Why should the universe exist at all. Why am I a part of it and why is that important(or not.) The debate between which is better science and religion is absolutely bullshit (for the lack of better words.) Its like comparing Language(English for meMath. Both of these have rolls to fill in our society and both fulfill completely different roles.

Language is the manifestation of the thoughts and idea of a person. Sometimes it can be wrong,and sometimes it can be cruel and yet sometimes and can advance us. It allows us to share idea's and express ourselves. It is a spear stabbed into the lungs of society, the more you pull on the spear you will damage yourself; However, the Ultimate intended end is for the better.

Math is simply the explanation of the universe and that's it. It answers no greater question the the problem presented. There is only one question and an absolutely true answer. You have a right and a wrong. Both are very important and without either often our advance concepts would be non-existent.

Imagine how foolish you would look if you walked up to a person and simply blurted out. "I Can't believe you speak [Enter Language Here]. Don't you know that all concept and idea's can be express with Math?"

Imagine vise Versa. Saying that math is a impractical use of one's brain capacity and that we should only need to be able to speak [Enter Language Here.]

I am tired and I will continue more if I get a response (possibly edit the obvious poor grammar if I feel the need to in order to make sure my concept proceeds)

Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God.

Pretty much why I refute the concept of a loving god.

Here's my two theories:
Big Bang: What was before the bang? Well I say it always were, there is no moment in that there was nothing. I think of the universe as it would be "breathing", expanding until full, then collapsing on itself to a singularity, then banging again, lather rinse repeat.

God: This is more of a look into the options:

1. There is no god. Okay, so I live like I always do, nice, happy and not caring about a god.
2. There is an almighty benevolent god: So what does it care if one small creature believes in him or not, so I live like I always do, nice, happy and not caring about a god.
3. There is a very petty small minded god: There is no pleasing it anyway, so I live as I always do, nice, happy and not caring about a god.

Anarchemitis:

curlycrouton:
A friend said to me the other day:
"surely, if we're all just a mass of energy, then we can't have souls"
"Why not?" I asked him
"because our emotions are all just chemicals, and our personalities are just imbalances of these chemicals".
"your point...?"
"That there can't be a God if there's no soul."

Here's my theory:
We are, basically, a mass of flesh, blood etc. But looking further, what do you see? Particles. Further? Atoms. Further? Nucleus of an atom. Further? Electrons. Now, that's about 99.9% space, so humans are basically a mass of energy and space having a human experience.

but the question I ask is, how is it possible that this energy has been arranged in exactly the right way? What put it there? How? Really, what's your theory on the whole "God" debate?

Okay, let's look at that. Quarks, Protons, Atoms, Molecules, Chemicals, Cells, Bacteriums, Living Organisms, Complex Organsms, Continents, Plants and Planets, Stars, Nebulae, Galaxies and Univereses. The unfathomable beauty and grandeur that existence brings, the amounts of knowledge Humankind has brought to itself, the infinite complexity of simply the human mind, the sheer unrelenting marvel of it all.

Tell it to my face that it's all a coincidence due to an explosion.

Of course not, it's the work of a bearded man in the Sky that hates gay people and loves everyone.

That's a MUCH better answer.

Anarchemitis:
Okay, let's look at that. Quarks, Protons, Atoms, Molecules, Chemicals, Cells, Bacteriums, Living Organisms, Complex Organsms, Continents, Plants and Planets, Stars, Nebulae, Galaxies and Univereses. The unfathomable beauty and grandeur that existence brings, the amounts of knowledge Humankind has brought to itself, the infinite complexity of simply the human mind, the sheer unrelenting marvel of it all.

Tell it to my face that it's all a coincidence due to an explosion.

Even though you and the threadstarter disagree, you're both making the same fundamental fallacy in your reasoning and assumptions about the end result of the universe which both of you perceive at this moment.

None of the things you listed is part of a massive coincidence due to an explosion and in the same vein, none of the things the threadstarter listed has been "arranged in exactly the right way." You're kind of ignoring all the knowledge we have of physics, chemistry, and evolution which has helped us understand that all these processes are driven by physical and chemical principles which have been modified, finetuned, and expanded through the pressures of evolution and natural selection over the course of almost four billion years.

Applying this teleological fallacy (and ignoring the principles of physics, chemistry, and evolution both macroscopically and microscopically) in the reasoning both of you utilize might make for grandiose writing, but it is as logically and scientifically paper thin as it is inspiring (or insipid, depending on how jaded you are).

Unless of course, you don't believe in physics, chemistry, or evolution. And that the millions upon millions of flora and fauna that has become extinct via natural selection or mass extinction (along with all the wars and genocides we have carried out in our own species) is all part of this unfathomable beauty or the universe (and us) being arranged so well.

And if the threadstarter really wants to know how we're (usually) arranged so well, he better read up on developmental neuroscience and biochemistry.

I think whoever spilled the first bit of religion on this forum should probably have wiped it up with a paper towel.

Anarchemitis:

Okay, let's look at that. Quarks, Protons, Atoms, Molecules, Chemicals, Cells, Bacteriums, Living Organisms, Complex Organsms, Continents, Plants and Planets, Stars, Nebulae, Galaxies and Univereses. The unfathomable beauty and grandeur that existence brings, the amounts of knowledge Humankind has brought to itself, the infinite complexity of simply the human mind, the sheer unrelenting marvel of it all.

Tell it to my face that it's all a coincidence due to an explosion.

Many of the things listed are just beatiful to a human eye, nothing more. We like how things make patterns are forms, it is nothing more wonderous. Just remember, we have had millions of years to expand our genetic build. First single celled beings didn't have much brain power, but they grew.

Continents: Big rocks
Planets: Big rocks
Stars: Big gasballs burning
Explsions are pretty, and so is the aftermath.

Think about magnets, they have a tendency to get closer together and combine (bit like living cells grow and multiply to create something bigger). Put a lot of small magnets in a container and blow it up, you end up with small clusters of magnets all around forming nice little patterns. If you have enough materials and large enough explosion, the odds are they get together and build something greater.

I had a good analogy in here about legos, but forgot it. Will see if I can get it here later.

Hey! What was the point of that if no one comments on it! That'll teach me to put thought into a forum post.