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Press Junketeer  Posts: 443 Joined: 18 Sep 2008     | |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2804 Joined: 22 Aug 2008     | Khell, that rant was awesome ;o I'm stealing that picture for later usage. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 440 Joined: 30 Sep 2008    | Why all the hate? mostly because our generation has become disillusioned to the customs of the previous generations. One of those things being christianity, which is a symbol of the GOP and the conservative right-a group that ostensibly seems to love pushing their values on the rest of our society, whether it be creationism being taught in school or abstinence programs. also the fact that many in our generation to consider most organized religion bunk, and therefore like to mock it in order to discredit it. Due in part to the fact that atheism is growing, the more that religion is to be mocked, and like TheBadass said because most of us are more exposed to christianity in the west the more it will be mocked |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 481 Joined: 4 Oct 2008     |
You may have a point there... |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 386 Joined: 12 Jul 2008  | There was actually a pro-choice vs. pro-life demonstration here at Penn State yesterday, and now there's a new religous discussion on the Escapist...Interesting. As a Christian, I take offense only when a Christian joke/insult is deliberately meant to be hurtful, any other time I just laugh along with everyone else. It's perfectly natural to feel hurt when some one insults something about your identity with malicious intent. To reiterate what has already been said: Having said this, I can readily understand the criticism aimed at Christianity. What ticks me off are the instances in which people forget that Christians suffered, too. So many people are so prepared to forget the centuries of persecution at the hands of the Romans. Many people in the U.S.A. forget that Catholic churches were burned down on an almost weekly basis and that Catholics were beaten to death in broad day-light. Many critics also forget the good things that Christianity has done, like caring for the poor, helping to make education more readily available in remote areas, and encouraging respect for human life. The Christians who made these things happen are part of a rare breed of true Christians: Christians who actually act according to *all* of Jesus' teachings. Criticising Christianity for the horrible acts that have been done in its name is fine with me, but people must also take into account the suffering that Christians have gone through, as well as the numerous acts of kindness that have been done by Christians. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2804 Joined: 22 Aug 2008 |
See Khell's rant a page back >_> |
Beat Writer  Posts: 201 Joined: 3 Sep 2008  | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expelled Let's take a good look at a creationist video "disproving" evolution (Please take note of the "No Intelligence Allowed"). |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3512 Joined: 25 Jan 2008  |
All I have to say is OMFG, told you so. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 187 Joined: 20 Aug 2008 | Big points Khell, and it sure was nice of our esteemed colleague Amnestic to illustrate. And I might feel the need to quote you on the "Science over Religion" argument, you laid it out very clearly. Kudos! Here's a lame argument I hear from the Christians in my life all the time, and please tell me this isn't asking for a "little" ridicule. "I agree with you (Insert Crunchy's real name here), Religion IS evil. But Christianity isn't a religion it's a 'belief system' and it isn't locked down in the politics or prejudiced hate of the other religions" - My Step-Dad, My Mother, My Step-Grandparents, and my Cousins have ALL made that argument to me. Now tell me, how am I suppose respect religion with that put in front of me since before I could walk? How could anyone take that seriously? Still it is ridiculous, hopefully you guys have some fun with it. |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 543 Joined: 24 Oct 2007  | The catholic church has done some pretty questionable things throughout history. Yes, keep in mind that most people hate the church (as an institution) and not the faith itself. |
Paperboy  Posts: 31 Joined: 26 Sep 2008  | i dont see why making fun of religion is so taboo, religious people belive some really stupid shit and thus i laugh at them. It's not hurting anyone, yet people go nuts when you do it. what makes religion so elite that its emune to criticsim and humor? oh and heres an example of me making fun of christans http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfYKf_6LFXI (no cristans were harmed in the making of that video) |
Paperboy  Posts: 14 Joined: 18 Apr 2008 |
Yes youtube is indeed the epitome of scientific thought. Still, I fail to get your point with these videos and they are certainly no proper retort. But you seem surprisingly hell-bent on believeing in this theory as if it was a fact, as if you understand it. Again, it's humanities best theory so far, it makes the most amount of sense. But it is still quite irrelevant, and still but a theory. Believeing in it is like beleiveing in a religion, it quite simply doesnt have a point besides self-mastrubation. |
Beat Writer Posts: 201 Joined: 3 Sep 2008 |
Better watch this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o
Did you even watch those movies? |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1618 Joined: 29 Dec 2007  |
I...I think I love you. Back on topic, I make fun of Christians because it's fun. Plain and simple. I make fun of Jews, Muslims, Blacks, Whites, or anyone else for the same reason, I get a kick out of it. Each group has their own little buttons you can push to get a funny reaction out of them. It's trolling for the sake of trolling. I don't think it's so much an issue that Christianity has been some big old bully stomping around the centuries forcing itself upon us like a drunken rapist, because in our society, it's easy just to say "Kind sir, I'd rather you not peddle your beliefs here, I've already got an imaginary friend." Saying that it gets thrust down our throats isn't really a decent argument any more, now that if you want to escape religion in Western society, you just hop onto the Escapist or pretty much any other site. Fact is, that Christianity isn't some evil totalitarian power that victimizes atheists or vice-versa. Both groups are people who try to back up their arguments with copious amounts of shit-slinging. Now that they've attained pretty much equal influence on society, I don't think it's possible for anyone to play the victim card. So I ask you, cease with the butthurt over persecution and get back to finding better insults for each other. |
Press Junketeer Posts: 386 Joined: 12 Jul 2008 |
I notice that you seem to have ignored the rest of my post. Answer me this: Why weren't the Jews immediately fed to the lions, even though they didn't worship Caesar, either? And I'd call any law that results in the death and suffering of any one group persecution, the same way I'd call the laws that restricted the rights of the blacks in the south persecution. However, by your reasoning, because it was a law, it was not persecution. Your argument about Christian persecution is deeply flawed. [Warning: rant ahead] This is exactly why I'm an agnostic and not an atheist. Every single atheist I've ever come into contact with has acted as though my intelligence is infinitely inferior to theirs just because I don't believe what they believe. Let me lay down some truth for you atheists. You display the same "I'm right, you're wrong" attitude as every other major religion out there. And you over react just like every other religion. In my hometown, a woman was sued by an atheist for having a statue of Mary in her yard. The atheist claimed that the statue was forcing Christianity on him. You atheists disgust me. Try and justify it however you want; you display the same "Greater than thou" attitude that drove me away from the Catholic Church. |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 666 Joined: 8 May 2008  | "According to the Gospels, Pilate personally felt that Jesus was not guilty of any crime against the Romans, and since there was a custom at Passover for the Roman governor to free a prisoner (a custom not recorded outside the Gospels), Pilate offered the crowd a choice between Jesus of Nazareth and an insurrectionist named Barabbas. The crowd chose to have Barabbas freed and Jesus crucified. Pilate washed his hands to indicate that he was innocent of the injustice of the decision (Matthew 27:11-26)" Now forgive me if I am mistaken but I was always taught that the romans generally approved of christianity. As Khell stated as long as they could accept Caesar then they were happy. The christian leaders kept stating (okay im going to mangle the text but basically) "Do not fight the romans. Let them have their kingdom on earth, ours shall be in heaven" So why would roman officials oppose that ? Hell some of the people I hate most are those fucking criminals who raped and murdered and yet in their own minds and also by christian law, since they repented and asked forgivness all their sins are forgiven. So those assholes speak proudly of how they have repented and are forgiven so their past does not matter anymore. If god existed people like this would not. Even if he existed and did forgive them that does not matter. What about the women they raped and people they killed ? They dont even have the chance to forgive... *EDIT* |
Copy Clerk Posts: 123 Joined: 26 Jun 2008 | I don't think people have anything against Christianity, it's just something people joke about, like George Bush or nerds or steroids, anything that is talked about at the moment. As a lot of other people say, it's the religion your average western world dude knows the best. Fun is a point of view, you have all right to be offended by jokes, same manner I have the right to be offended when people joke about guys who were late in puberty (damn you all!). But you cannot ask people to stop (not sure if you are), someone will always be offended, regardless of good intention, just find a way to deal with it. All I can tell you is that there are very few that are out to deliberately insult you and your religion, those guys are jerks, the rest you will just have to deal with. |
Press Junketeer Posts: 443 Joined: 18 Sep 2008 | I've shortened your post, Khell, in order to address each of your points. But first: AGAIN, this isn't a debate about whether you think Christianity is right or wrong, this is about why there is so much hate on Christianity (More as of late, it seems). I'm responding to Khell directly, because is seems he doesn't understand some aspects of Christianity. I just want clarity.
As someone who is admittedly not-religious, I don't think you could understand why Christians wouldn't acknowledge Caesar as a god. It's completely contrary to the fundamental beliefs that we hold dear. It's basically saying: Believe what you want, but just change this giant part right here first. Christianity isn't just something to do on Sundays, it's a life encompassing worldview that permeates into every aspect of our lives. So pardon me if we didn't want to change our fundamental beliefs to 'fit in'. And please don't make the Romans sound so reasonable. The Jewish people during that time HATED the Romans and their rule because of how restrictive they were.
I can actually agree on this point in many ways. Some Christians really take it to ridiculous lengths to 'win souls'. I'm not against evangelising to people, but My church and I will do it by serving the community. Offering free oil changes for single mothers, chopping wood for a nearby pregnancy crisis center for the winter, shoveling people's driveway in the winter, raking leaves, free car washes, raising money for community services, whatever helps people out. And when they ask us why we do it: We just say 'Jesus loves you'. If they want to talk about it further, they are welcome. If they just say 'huh, thanks.' Then that's fine too.
Again, I don't think that someone who isn't really religious can understand why we (Or any religious body) can get upset about this. Heck, ask homosexual right groups what they think of use of terms like 'gay' and 'fag' in modern media and by so many people. I think there is even a thread on this forum decrying the use of those words. If you told them to 'get over it', you'd be a bigot and a homophobe. Well I don't think we should use those words either, but I also don't think we should have a double standard for when referring to religion (Christianity or otherwise).
The only thing I see science and religion clashing is creationism, but unless you are referring back to your point about Christians shoving it in your face, I don't see why this is a reason to hate Christianity. I wouldn't say I'm a 'creationist', but I can also admit I'm not fully qualified to debate this with you (Besides, this isn't a debate thread, remember?).
Again, I can't say I'm overly qualified to debate this with you (And I wouldn't here anyways! Not a debate thread!), but I'd suggest actually reading some Christian-Apologetic philisophy (Because it's apparent you haven't) if you'd like to find out about the reasons for Christianity being the 'one true religion'.
Again, not going to debate, but it's apparent you have a very sad, distorted view of God. If you want to message me to discuss this that's cool. Now let's remember: Please don't derail the thread! On topic! I'm actually really appreciating a lot of the responses thus far. Some good answers (Including the one I address in this post). |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1011 Joined: 1 Dec 2007 |
I'll give you this one.
Inductive reasoning is invalid as a proof outside mathematics. Hence, the only avenue of proof is christianity = in your face. This is false. The correct statement is christianity= faith in christ.
I agree Khell, but don't we all? Isn't that the natural human reaction to having your most innate beliefs denigrated?
These statements appear to be contradictory.
Science by definition is a very good guess.
To most people who will never leave the Earth, what does this matter?
You can't prove anything is true beyond a priori knowledge. Everything else is probabilistically true.
1. God has a plan, a destination for humanity Conclusion: We can therefore determine assuming the truth of the premises, that this is the best possible world that achieves God's plan. EDIT: ahh, ninja'd by Tea |
Paperboy Posts: 14 Joined: 18 Apr 2008 |
Watched enough to start bottling my own scorn. How about you use your own bloody words instead of linking youtube, or are you that bereft of indidvidual thought you titmickeyist. You almost make me think schopenhauer had a solid point, and that's a bleedin' acheivement. |
Beat Writer Posts: 187 Joined: 20 Aug 2008 | Hey now, Beowulf I object, And although I think this type of thread is great for attacking ideas, philosophies and ideologies, I refuse to let it degrade to attacking any section of people. I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with atheists, I'm sorry it didn't work out with the catholic church too. I've met some agnostics who were just to lazy to think about it, and they were jerks. Does that mean all agnostics are disgusting? Far from it, most are just cautious and undecided. When tearing into each other's ideas, let's be ruthless S.O.B.s but, let's be nice to each other. We're all friends here, at the end of the day. Attack the ideas, not the people, please. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1011 Joined: 1 Dec 2007 |
Ahh, empiricism! Just out of curiosity though, what evidence do you have God does NOT exist? Edit: Before I get in trouble, my point is atheism is just as illogical as deism. The rational course is agnosticism. |
Muckraker  Posts: 329 Joined: 12 Sep 2008 | The big question here is Why wouldn't we hate on christianiy? Do you really expect me to like some type of invisible guy up the the sky, in heaven (where-ever that is), who enjoys watching us al suffer? Jesus: What did he do? Walk on water, get some peopledrunk? Raise one or two ppl formt he dead. WOW tha't sreally helpful there jesus. I understand why you would rather do that than end suffering, poverty and hunger. good going there moron. "god": remeber when he told people to ikill the first born? That is a WELL KNOWN bible story. Yes, that's right, christianity endorses killing babies. well done. And remember when he played a trick on that one guy? The hting is, god loves you no matter what. Unconditional love. Until you odn't give him enough go-boosts and then it's eternity burning in "hell". you'd think you'd learn your lesson after a few thousand year but No. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 469 Joined: 24 Jul 2008 |
In 90% of those shows they're just making fun of him. And why make fun of a religion that only a small portion of your area understands while you can make fun of one that everyone understands. And even better, one that most of them agree with.
Which reminds me, your sins system sucks. Why can't I have sex with my girlfriend if I had a vasectomy (I don't trust condoms or pills. When a company can be sued 1 billion dollars for a properly used condom that breaks I'll trust them. And I see no point in having kids via sex when you could just store some sperm in the bank or adopt. When you want kids y |
Didn't I say play nice while I was in my staff meeting? Sheesh!
Anyways...
Let me talk first about the problem everyone has with the 'elitist' mentality of Christianity: We're not the only religion to claim 'absolute truth'. Islam is a prime example of another religion that says 'believe in me or perish'. Heck, even Buddha said to reject the false teachings of other religions (While respecting them). Christianity isn't the only one.
Now, everyone seems to be hung on on homosexuality (Christians and Non-Christians alike). That it's the end all be all of sins. If God sends someone to hell (I'm would never say some is for sure going to hell or not, I'm not the judge), it's to pay the cost of sin. I, as a Christian man, am just as sinful as some homosexual murderer who steals for a living. No man is better then another (Sorry, Catholics). Sin is sin, and we're all guilty. The type of sin isn't the issue, it's that we are all sinful.
And if you know Christian people who are looking 'down' on non-religious people, then send them my way. I can't stand 'Christians' who act that way.
Now, please remember, this isn't a debate forum on Christianity being right or wrong. I only put the statement in above to explain Christianity's view on that subject. Take it or leave it, but debate it somewhere else.