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Beat Writer  Posts: 201 Joined: 3 Sep 2008     | |
Anonymous Source Posts: 5 Joined: 7 Oct 2008 | My thing is this. Why would you believe in Christianity? The main reason people believe in the bible is because they were brought up in a Christian home. And probably one where you were told to be a Christina in one way or the other. I'm the only non-jew in my family, because I chose not to. Because I don't see why I should believe in books written many years ago. The bible was written some 1500 years ago by men. Everything in that book was written by men, and if you read it it's astounding how many means of control is in that book. I'm pretty convinced that the bible was a tool, a very necessary tool, to control people. It kept society together once. Today, we don't need that. Most of us are capable of making our own morals. I know it's wrong to steal, not because it's in the 10 commandments. And speaking of the 10 commandments. I don't agree with a single one of them. I don't understand why anybody could. Sometimes killing can be justified, sometimes stealing and lying can be justified. Sometimes not respecting your parents is alright. How can anybody who do not follow the 10 commandments, the 10 most clear rules in the bible, call themselves Christians? They're not. They're their own version of a Christian, but if you're not living by the book, then what's the point? I consider myself an agnostic today, because I believe in some sort of spirituality. But I don't see why I need an old book to tell how to live. And I'm going on a rant, so to get to the point of this thread. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 387 Joined: 22 Sep 2008  | As a Satanist, I see humans as fundamentally animal creatures, seeking pleasure and avoiding pain. We have complete self-governance over ourselves; there is no "plan", no invisible man in the sky, no floating kingdom; in this respect, we are our own gods. There is something fundamentally wrong with theism, in my mind; to believe in a creature, a creator, a cosmic system responsible for everything in the universe, despite there being no strong empirical evidence whatsoever, runs completely contrary to what I would consider to be a core human trait: rationality. Self-deceit and herd conformity are two things Christianity and religion in general encourages, and both are terrible. I think that just one rule is absolutely necessary: cause no harm to others unless they cause harm to you. I don't need religion to do that. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1412 Joined: 7 Sep 2008     |
Have you ever read the Bible passages you speak of, TheDean? By the way, if *you* were an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent being, don't you think that you'd be an egomaniac as well? Think about it- you'd genuinely be the most important being in all the universe, so I think that whole ego argument is flawed. |
BANNED  Posts: 453 Joined: 12 Sep 2008  |
I don't think you read a single thing I typed. User was banned for: Proposition 8, sparks anger, and threats.. (14 days) |
Beat Writer Posts: 201 Joined: 3 Sep 2008 |
A "Perfect" being wouldn't need an ego, would they? |
Paperboy Posts: 32 Joined: 21 Dec 2007 | Original Question: Why is it in vogue to rip on Christians? Answer: Mel Gibson And most importantly- People make fun of Christianity because other people laugh at the jokes. So, the better question to ask is: Why is there an audience for jokes and jabs and Christianity's expense. Oh. And based on the logic of hat size and rank in the Catholic Church, God must wear a big fucking sombrero. (Dennis Leary) EDIT: Hat not Hate. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1011 Joined: 1 Dec 2007     |
Which is "we don't know"?
I think this is something that undermines atheist reasoning. Science is simply a best guess. A Leap of faith. Extensions of "If the world as I see it is true, then X". People tend to forget determinism is a premise of science, not a reality. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 386 Joined: 12 Jul 2008  |
Exactly. You didn't like my last post, did you? What I did was what most of the people who criticised Christianity on this thread have done. I made an incorrect generalization based on my own experiences. The average Christian and the average atheist are just that-average. They won't go "forcing their religion (or lack there of) down your throat." You resent being lumped together with the worst examples of your group. The same thing applies to me.
I apologize for insulting you, Crunchy. I was just trying to make a point. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 443 Joined: 18 Sep 2008   |
Well it's painfully obvious you haven't read the Bible at all, in anyway or form. I actually laughed when you mentioned when 'God tricked that one guy' and 'Nail your slaves ears to door posts' and the classic 'God condones killing babies'. Anyways, this isn't a debate thread, please remember. I've had some good responses to my OP, and the one I quoted here just goes to show they can't all be winners. If you want to discuss anything brought up in this thread with me (In a RESPECTFUL manner) then I'm totally up for it. I always like to discuss worldviews. And I promise not to try to convert you. |
Paperboy Posts: 13 Joined: 10 Feb 2007 | It's because Christianity is just so easy to make fun of.... I was watching the news one night and they had a story about a guy who goes around scientifically proving that God exists. This caught my interest. They had him in a debate forum against two atheists who do the exact opposite thing he did. What was his grand scientific proof? He could have argued the documented health benefits of prayer. He could have brought up the advent of Christianity among quantum theorists after they mathematically proved that the universe has a will behind it. That the creation of a universe with the physical properties and laws that could support life as we know it is so astronomically small that it's as close to entirely impossible as anything can get without something guiding it. What does he argue? Well, just like a painting proves that there is a painter, the universe proves that there's a God... I face palmed as the atheists closed their tablets, not even bothering to take any more notes. I'm a Christian and I'm ashamed of the behavior of many other Christians as they use the religion which teaches us tolerance, love, and charity and twist it to fit their own prejudices and hate. And, like the man I spoke of above, they don't think they have any need for logic if they have religion. The minority of stupid, hate mongering Christians that make the headlines while the hundreds that clothe the homeless and build homes for the poor that DON'T make headlines make Christianity easy to make fun of. Just like they make black people easy to be thought of as all criminals. That gamers are all ready to snap and gun down people in the streets. That republicans are all self hating closet cases. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1412 Joined: 7 Sep 2008 |
By your own arguments, you are not a Satanist. Satanists worship Satan, no? I think you'd be better suited to call yourself a 'humanist'. As to all this hating of Christianity, most of it is justified. For example, all of the shoving of faith down peoples' throats and hypocrisy in so many Christians is good reason for people to become defensive and attack it back. It's too bad that Christianity has such poor representation, because it does have some good ideas. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1519 Joined: 18 Sep 2007   |
Yeah, but it works. If we did see staves turn into snakes and loaves spontaneously multiplying every now and then, I'd put more stock into the "God did it" explanation. But we don't, whereas the really oddball stuff (variable rate of the passage of time, gaining mass by moving faster, the universe has a "temperature") predicted by deterministic theories are demonstrated. Determinism has earned its keep. I have trouble saying the same for faith. -- Steve |
Press Junketeer Posts: 443 Joined: 18 Sep 2008 |
Amen! The ones that show the worst of the Christian community (Though some I wouldn't even call Christians) are the ones that get all the attention. Nevermind the countless Charities and services and support groups that are run by Christian groups and help thousands and thousands of people. Well said. Keep 'em coming guys (and gals), I've had some good responses! |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1412 Joined: 7 Sep 2008 |
I see no reason for a perfect being not to have an ego. Having a big ego is a bad thing when it comes to humans, but if there were a creature so vast in power, intelligence, etc. that it created the universe, ego wouldn't be a bad thing at all. I mean, ego would never cause that being to 'bite off more than he could chew', nor get everyone else around him angry for being a prima donna, the list goes on. I apologise for the derailment |
Anonymous Source Posts: 2 Joined: 27 May 2008  | The problem with religion is everyone thinks their right. And atheists are just as bad. We all take shots at each other, as stated above you just see Christianity getting it more because you are a Christian. Everyone does it. I, for example, am a former Catholic turned atheist, and I still see an anti-Catholic swing in most university history classes(in Canada at least). Funny enough, I mock most (if not all) religions, but that does not mean i'm ignorant about them either. I've read most of the Bible, and I frankly found it didn't answer any of the questions I wanted. That is personal belief. Most of the people I know who talk about the 'hate' on Christianity are just talking about people who question texts and historical fact. However, if people are actually mocking the religion, it is still just their own beliefs and it shouldn't bother you. Just relax and be happy with your own spirituality. |
Anonymous Source  Posts: 8 Joined: 7 Aug 2008 | First of all, I don't hate Christianity. Just the actions of some its ignorant followers. I am a Native American, and have somewhat big gripe with what has been done to my people in the past by hateful christian missionaries with good intentions. |
Paperboy  Posts: 31 Joined: 26 Sep 2008 |
you know what else is a theory, gravity. by your logic believing in the theory of gravity is rediculous. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 173 Joined: 5 Aug 2008  | Too many pages for me to read through every post to see if someone has said this before. The reason you are seeing more ridicule of Christianity is because of the culture you are a part of. Christianity is still the majority religion in the US and most of Europe, and as such its the most well known in those same regions. If you are saying that you think there is more than ever before, than maybe that has to do with people moving beyond religion in general, and again Christianity is the most public target. I'm not trying to start anything here, but if you think about the progression of religion, maybe people just don't believe any more. My theory on religion is that it was created because people didn't have the intelligence to explain the world around themselves. Perfect example is the sun god. People couldn't explain why the sun rose every day, moved across the sky, and set on the opposite end of the Earth, so they explained it as the sun god carrying the sun in his chariot as he rode across the sky. After a time having multiple gods, or having one god for each phenomenon(sp?) became illogical, so people moved onto monotheism. In monotheism, the one god created everything and most of it just works on its own. Perhaps now more and more people believe that the monotheism path is illogical, just like people of ancient culture came to believe that polytheism was illogical. Maybe we will see a whole new religious structure in the near future, or maybe religion itself will begin to die off. |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 529 Joined: 27 Aug 2008  |
I don't know why you've assumed I'm an atheist just because I disagreed with you, but nonetheless... That wasn't the point I was trying to make; I was trying to get you to stop making strawmen so you could directly confront those posts which you find offensive. Just saying "you atheists" implies that every single atheist has a holier than thou attitude, and that isn't any more true than if someone said every single Christian thinks that those who work on the Sabbath should be stoned. There are examples of those people, but that does not make every other atheist/christian like them (in short, other people saying it first does not mean you saying it is okay.) |
Paperboy  Posts: 49 Joined: 10 Sep 2008 |
This is why I don't like christianity. The religious leaders are elitist to the extream, thinking that non-christians aren't "civilised." Not to mention what it's followers did to the Jews. I believe that we were attempted to be eraticated on several occasions withen the past thousand years ... the world needs more shinto. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 481 Joined: 4 Oct 2008     | I think we all need to calm down a bit. No one wants this thread into a flame war, and no one wants the Unholy Banhammer to descend upon this thread. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 123 Joined: 17 Sep 2008 | I must admit that I always have had a problem with the omnipotent, omniscient god. This problem is simply put: Who (or what) created this being and what did it create the world from (perhaps energy since E=mc^2, so it is possible, but then where did the energy come from) and where did it get the energy to do this? (yes it takes energy to create and control energy). This is less of a problem in polytheistic religions, but not much less. Personally I do not have anything against cristianity (or any other religion for that sake) but I do have something against being reminded of religion all the time and I really have somthing against those who preach it and try to convert others. I also very much have something against creationists, be they young earth or old earth. P.S. you do not believe in evolution or any other scientific theory (look it up). A theory is a description of how nature works using the language of mathematics and a method to predict (I so not like that word in this context but cannot come up with anything better at the moment) the outcome of an experiment or event. |
Press Junketeer Posts: 443 Joined: 18 Sep 2008 |
Thank you.
I would be the first to say that people have done terrible things in the name of Christianity, but none of those things can be related back to the teachings of Christ, which is what our faith is based on. I could go on about the fallacy of the statement 'what it's followers did to the Jews.', but The_Oracle is right: Let's keep the thread on topic! |
Paperboy  Posts: 47 Joined: 4 Oct 2008 | Actually Einstein was able to prove gravity using Relativity, but that's a theory as well so we're kinda back at square one here. Also, theory is indeed not simply a guess, but it also isn't a cold hard fact. If it were, it wouldn't be called a theory. But on to business. I'm a Christian and I sympathize with the original argument, and I agree that the main reason it takes as much flak as it does is because it's the most established and universally known religion we have, which makes it all the more open for bashing. It's like people bashing Halo. If it wasn't as univerally popular as it is, I doubt we'd here half the complaints. Another reason though is because Christians form a large majority of the Westen population. If you were to publicly make obscene comments regarding Judaism, Islam, or any other faith, chances are you'll get labeled a racist/bigot, whereas attacking Christianity is nothing huge to most people because they're the majority. It's like if a black person were to call me a cracker etc, there's very little I could do about it, but if I were to drop an n-bomb you better believe there'd be lawsuits. Granted there's a very good reason why we're so quick to retaliate with regards to verbal attacks on minorities. And let's not forget a cold hard fact: religions get stereotyped based on their vocal minorities, and the evangelists and zealots sure as hell don't help the situation. I can never understand how people are able to turn "love thy neighbour" into "we hate gays." Anyways, pardon my rambling, but I just wanna go out on a quote from Gandhi that I think is actually not a bad description of the situation: "I like your Christ, but I don't much like your Christians. Your Christians are nothing like your Christ." |
http://kspark.kaist.ac.kr/Jesus/Intelligence%20&%20religion.htm