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Paperboy Posts: 11 Joined: 4 Sep 2008 | |
Muckraker  Posts: 278 Joined: 27 Aug 2008     | Just a random thought. Why is Christianity considered a Western religion? Is it because of its popularity? It was started by Israelis two thousand odd years ago. Like most religions it started in the Middle East, hardly Western now is it? I understand the hate on Christianity really. I do not like the American extremists at all. I am also not fond of JWs, but that is a personal gripe. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2804 Joined: 22 Aug 2008    |
Because most of the followers are located in Western countries these days. S'about it really. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 386 Joined: 12 Jul 2008     |
Catholic dogma states that the Holy Spirit leads the souls of the followers of other ideologies to heaven. Once again, Jesus himself said that he has sheep that do not belong to his fold. Who do you think is the true follower of Christ? A Christian who helps his fellow man because he wants his soul to enter heaven, or the Atheist who helps his fellow man simply out of the goodness of his heart, with no thought of reward in this life or whatever may come after? Actions speak louder than words. Those who have good souls simply cannot enter hell. They must be accepted into purgatory if not immediately into heaven. A good person is a good person; it doesn't matter if you're a Christian or not. EDIT: @Amnestic There is no set criteria for being a Scotsman (other than heritage). There are set rules and guidelines that define what a true Christian is. As such, true Christians are not an impossibility. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2353 Joined: 7 Feb 2008   |
It's called a Western Religion because it, along with Judaism, have been intrinsically the linked with Western Culture for around 2,000 years, whereas Buddhism, Islam, Taoism and such have primarily influenced Eastern Cultures. Up until recently, Western Society was REFERED to as Christian Society, the two are inexplicably linked, you could not really concieve of western civilization as we know it without the influence of christianity. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2353 Joined: 7 Feb 2008 |
It's not quite as simple as that, "Santa Clause" isn't like God, as he does not have 2,000 years of indoctrination behind him. As well... A child cannot outlaw a womans right to choose, declare homosexuality a crime, deny people their right to die, commit acts of horrible persecution and genocide on a mass scale etc. There's no DANGER in believing in Santa Clause, since I've never seen anyone Kill in the name of Santa Clause. |
Muckraker  Posts: 284 Joined: 12 Aug 2008   | i dont get it either. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 99 Joined: 5 Sep 2008 | We'll you (christians, not specifically you) do kinda deserve it considering all that they've done to the people of the world... Forcing them to join the religion or perish, burning them because they didn't follow christian rules, telling people not to have sex [which in a way surely must be against Yahweh, wouldn't s/he want their creature to thrive rather they die/dry out?" and also, remember it's usually the christians to attack other religions/governments/peoples/societies/cities/children/pets/people/anything thats living/anything thats dead/everything. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 443 Joined: 18 Sep 2008   |
Uhh, that's not true. I'm not sure which Bible you're reading, but it's made perfectly clear in scripture that only those who seek forgiveness from Christ will be allowed to 'enter heaven'. I'm not a fan of the phrase 'enter heaven', but this isn't a theology debate. Now if you're referring to people who didn't know about Christ, had no chance to know about Christ, lived across the world when Christ was here, lived before Christ, etc. Well I can't say as I'm not God.
Even though I love your blind hate, keep it out of this thread. One person was banned for a few days because of bombarding this thread with flame-like hate, so consider this a friendly 'ease up there home-slice'. |
Muckraker Posts: 278 Joined: 27 Aug 2008 |
True, a good person is a good person, but good deeds to not get you into heaven, much like a murderer is not forgiven of their life sentance because they once helped an old lady across the street in their youth. I never saw Purgatory as a teaching from the bible, moreso Catholic superstition (I am aware of bible verses that seem to support purgatory, but I think they are merely out of context as to what is being said). There are two possible destinations, heaven and hell. We have this life to decide to chose Christ. Should a person accept Jesus as their savior that is the only price for heaven, Christians do not suffer for their sins since Jesus was the payment for them. Good debate by the way everyone. Makes you think of course. Believe what you want to believe of course, but debating is a good thing to engage in once in a while! |
Press Junketeer Posts: 443 Joined: 18 Sep 2008 |
As much I love to disagree with Catholics in their view of 'purgatory', and especially when one says that 'Those who have good souls simply cannot enter hell' which is completely contrary to scripture...but let's remember to keep this thread on topic, eh? |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 739 Joined: 8 Jul 2008  | Can I say something? Because I want an opinion from smart people. Okay: Anyone have anything to say? Because this is huge if it's true. |
BANNED  Posts: 453 Joined: 12 Sep 2008  |
Dawkins is an evolutionary biologist, and he doesn't know hebrew OR greek. AFAIK such a "mistranslation" doesn't exist. Not saying that I know, but I do know a person (priest) who does. Happens to be a linguist. User was banned for: Proposition 8, sparks anger, and threats.. (14 days) |
Muckraker Posts: 278 Joined: 27 Aug 2008 |
Quite honestly the God delusion was simply an angry rant, written to make the reader angry. Not really a true analysis on anything. Its true there were some mistranslations in the first leap into English, some words in English are far too simple than their Greek or Hebrew meanings, rest assured there are better translations these days than that of the old English editions of the bible. There are many words for love in Greece describing physical love and love for an object or family member, but English only has love. On topic: The disagreements within Christianity itself seems to be another reason as to the hate on Christianity. Different churches follow different teachings so it can confuse more about what the 'true' teaching is. But humans will always disagree on something. The important belief is in Jesus being the way to heaven and accepting him. All others like infant baptism aren't too important and can be debated for personal preference. People want to hear what they want to hear, nothing new there. |
Press Junketeer Posts: 443 Joined: 18 Sep 2008 |
First of all: Take anything Richard Dawkins says with a bucket of salt. For all the people that say 'Christians say a bunch of stuff without really knowing' or 'Believing something to fit their agenda', Richard Dawkins is the same way for militant atheists. He would love nothing more then to see the eradication of religion, and therefore has his reasons to misrepresent anything he 'researches'. And before anyone says 'Christianity does that too!', I know people think that. I'm just raising the point that if 'militant Christians' would do something like that, don't expect Dawkins to be any different. If it WAS Arabic he said, then he's flat out wrong since the scriptures weren't written in Arabic. If he's talking Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic, then I think it's funny that they 'just discovered this' when people (I.E. Non-Christians) have been studying the Bible in it's original languages for decades and no-one has brought this up. This is just like the 'Book of Judas' crap. It's crap. Now please! Thread on topic! There have been great responses! Let's keep those coming. |
Press Junketeer Posts: 443 Joined: 18 Sep 2008 |
Well said. I often have people telling me they don't believe when so many Christians argue amongst each other over the most ridiculous things (Infant baptism, dancing, worship styles, what is appropriate to wear to church, tattoos, instruments in church, etc.). The Christian church will soon have to admit that we need unity, not uniformity, if we are going to survive the next few generations. Good post. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 4579 Joined: 13 Feb 2008     | Bucket of Salt? I'd take it with the whole of Lot's wife. And where does he get off using my name to attack Christianity, slander I tell you! |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1367 Joined: 12 Sep 2007  |
Purgatory is a Catholic construction to settle a contradiction in Catholic dogma - you can't go to Heaven until you've been forgiven for your sins, which requires a priest, so you suffer in Purgatory until you've made up for your un-confessed and un-atoned sins. I kind of liked the idea myself, the idea of suffering for a bit before entering Heaven. Kind of punishing myself I guess. But I believe it's been officially dropped together with Limbo. The main problem I have with Christian-bashing is that I have to fund it. In the unlikely event that you're unable to find someone to pay you to put a crucifix in a jar of urine (which fails my art test because I could do it) or recreate The Madonna in elephant dung, why should I have to fund it? The market has already established that your art is worthless. If an "artist" put the AIDS quilt in a jar (well, a big jar) of urine there would be hell to pay, not government subsidies. Similarly, art that is hateful to Muslims or Buddhists or Wiccans are not allowed in government-supported institutes. So why is it that Christian-hating art must not only be tolerated, but subsidized? |
Press Junketeer Posts: 443 Joined: 18 Sep 2008 |
Oh my word. That would probably be the funniest Bible-based joke I've ever heard! Seriously, I'm cracking up. Brilliant. I'm totally using that sometime. |
Press Junketeer Posts: 443 Joined: 18 Sep 2008 |
Well said! I certainly won't deny that other religions have had their own hardships (Some past, some ever present), you really don't see stuff like that against other religions. Good post. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 92 Joined: 17 Jul 2008   |
Whilst it's always a plus point to be critical of anything and everything you read or hear, having read Dawkins (not just The God Delusion, also his biology stuff), I think he knows what he's doing when he talks about evolution. And on the whole his research is pretty accurate. The arguments he makes are pretty well reasoned. I agree, some of the stuff about mistranslations of scripture is somewhat shaky, but it's enough to make you think "if we can't agree it's a translation or mistranslation, then there's room for doubt in supposedly 'divine' texts". |
Press Junketeer Posts: 443 Joined: 18 Sep 2008 |
This argument always seems so stale to me. It's like almost every atheist I meet is a broken record, saying that 'Religion is bad. Religion causes all these bad things'. If you want to say about how Christianity is this evil bad thing because of the crusades, or the inquisition, or because of how 'they all' hate everyone who isn't Christian: I'd say you're wrong. The message of Christ would decry all of those things, not condone (Or endorse) them. You can't trace any of those terrible acts to the message of Christ. The buck stops at the people who USE a good message to their own ends. Besides, I can just point to Stalin and his Death Squads, or Hitler (NOT Christian. Debate that with me in private messages if you must, but not here), and say that humanism and atheism is evil. What is the tying link? Humanity. Humanity does evil things. Now PLEASE let's keep this on topic. Good posts thus far! Message me if you wanna debate or discuss or question or whatever. Or start your own thread. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 188 Joined: 4 Jun 2008 |
you honestly have 2 ask christians are always calling people godless hethens and such trying to force there religion on people here is an example: in texas its illegal for atheists to testify in court |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 65 Joined: 3 Sep 2008 | As im sure many people have said before, its because that Chiristianity is so in the spotlight that its become just like another bit of life thats there to be made fun of. If you will its lost some of the religious protection that it used to have. Plus in my opinion, its lack of ability to defend itself aginst other peoples views, and its inability to move with the times has opened it up to even more abuse. |
Press Junketeer Posts: 443 Joined: 18 Sep 2008 |
First off, your example? How does that have anything to do with Christianity? Where in the Bible does it say 'And ye atheist shall not testify in the courts'? If you have a problem with Texas law, take it up with Texas. And while I can concede that some Christians can be over-zealous in their actions and words, that still doesn't have to do with Christianity. Why not? Because the message of Christ would say that the way they're acting is wrong. If someone is contradicting their own beliefs, is it the fault of the worldview, or the person claiming to follow it?
I'd love to discuss with you how Christianity certainly doesn't have 'the lack of ability to defend itself against other peoples views'. I could also point out flaws with the idea that a worldview must change or 'move' with the times (I'm assuming you mean fundamentally), but that's for private messages. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 84 Joined: 7 Sep 2008 | maybe this could be why... |
Beat Writer Posts: 188 Joined: 4 Jun 2008 | the point of my example was that atheists probably wouldnt even get a trail down there so if they were accused of a crime they didnt comit they would just go ahead and get the chair |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2813 Joined: 10 Mar 2008  | (Please note, I have not read any previous statements in this thread. So basically, I'm ignoring everyone else and putting my opinion here) Why should Christianity be left untouched? "Leave no stone unturned" as they say! I've seen people make fun of Judaism, Buddah, Islam, Muslim, Blacks, Whites, the Mayans and Indians, and tons of other stuff. Most of the time it's for shits and giggles, other times it's because the guy's being a jackass, but it's all fair game. What, should Christianity have a special permit to not be made fun of? I say bullshivism! I don't intend this to sound rude or hating or anything, if it comes off like that then I am sorry but I did not intend to offend anyone. |
Copy Clerk Posts: 92 Joined: 17 Jul 2008 |
So...there's nothing wrong with Christianity, just the people who practice it? So people shouldn't practice Christianity? A bit like communism then: great in theory, not so good in practice. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 2 Joined: 8 Jul 2008 |
Couple things wrong here: 1. Catholic dogma have no contradictions, but people who don't understand Catholic teaching think it does. Everyone pretends that faith must be simple if it's true...which really makes no sense. How many pages is the Bible? Why didn't God or Jesus just hand our copied of the 10 commandments and call it a day? 2. Forgiveness of sins doesn't require a priest by |
Making fun of a devoted christian is like making fun of a child for believing in santa claus.
its easy and fun.