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Beat Writer  Posts: 136 Joined: 7 May 2008     | |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 104 Joined: 29 Aug 2008   | And now for something completely different: There should be a thread named "Is being a giant walking peanut immoral?" hmmm...............i'm not gonna start it, but if someone else wants to................ |
Paperboy  Posts: 48 Joined: 10 Oct 2008 | In reply to the OP, I think you're just sensitive to your beliefs. I easily pick up on people making fun of Evolution, likewise you pick up on people mocking your religion. I think people "hate" on christianity because they are the most aggressive and outgoing religion in the west. No, not everyone, but even just using words as "my saviour" or saying "God bless you" is, honestly, annoying. It's cool you think you have a saviour, but other people don't care. It's basically just rubbing it in people's face that "I have a religious conviction!", which is quite impolite. I could say a lot, but it's all been said, frankly. |
Muckraker  Posts: 226 Joined: 29 Apr 2008   |
Aggressive is an interesting choice of words to describe Christianity. |
Muckraker  Posts: 329 Joined: 12 Sep 2008  | Here's my other thing with Christianity. According to this religion- god has some type of divine plan for us. Everything we do is predetermined. So then how the hell can he punish us for doing what he told us to do? Well, i guess if we'd read the story of moses we should expect that anyway. |
Muckraker Posts: 226 Joined: 29 Apr 2008 |
Muslim cultures have committed atrocities equal to or worse than the examples you have put forth IE: the sacking and looting of Constantinople. and the apparent embarrassment is slightly misplaced because many of these examples are the result of merging a religious structure with a political one (an act Jesus himself forbade), so the acts of many christian leaders, or acts done in the name of Christ had alternative motives. -as for your televangelist many church structures have openly chastised TV evangelism, for the reason of being too impartial. |
Muckraker Posts: 226 Joined: 29 Apr 2008 |
ummm......I can't even form a rebuttal for this because you like many people on this thread have the amazing ability to form an opinion without having done so much as read the bible, let alone analyze it |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1927 Joined: 15 Jun 2008     |
Sadly, in many cases it's apt. Just today a co-worker told me about a girl who gave a University presentation saying how the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades were justified and morally right, how all non-christians were going to hell, etc. (also sex for any purpose other than procreation is sinful, apparently.) My co-worker is Muslim, and found this all very upsetting, obviously. People like that sicken me. |
Muckraker Posts: 226 Joined: 29 Apr 2008 |
i was pointing out irony not attacking their beliefs, If Jarl believes that let him believe it. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1927 Joined: 15 Jun 2008 |
...and where is the irony, precisely? I wasn't calling you out on attacking their beliefs, just pointing out christians can be very aggressive, and giving an example. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 443 Joined: 18 Sep 2008   | First off, I'd like to say how amazed I am that this thread has got as big as it has! It's the first thread I started,and I dare-say I won't have a bigger one (Unless I come up with another sensitive topic). There have been great posts from both sides, and I especially thank those (on both sides) who have managed to stay civil. I think we all know that regardless of one's worldview, someone can still be a jerk. It's good to see that has been kept at a minimum here. Also, let's remember to stay on topic! Rebuttals are fine, just no angry ones. And no angry posts in general. Let's keep it civil, please.
The problem in this argument arises when you say 'he made it happen'. This isn't true. God may know all, including what we'll do (No predestination argument posts please. If you wanna debate with me on that, message me), but that doesn't mean he decides what we do. You then might ask 'if God knows what we will do, why doesn't he stop the 'bad things' from happening?' Well I could certainly reference C.S. Lewis' The Problem With Pain, as well as other texts which address this issue far better then I could, but in the interest of keeping this thread on topic, if you want to ask me such questions, just message me. Again, great answers so far! Let's stay on topic. |
Muckraker Posts: 226 Joined: 29 Apr 2008 | Ohh the irony is a that a religion that teaches nonviolence has been able to attain the perception of being agressive. -this is largely in part to the abuse, and corruption of the catholic church. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1927 Joined: 15 Jun 2008 |
So does Islam- it's original teachings are peaceful. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2804 Joined: 22 Aug 2008     |
Oh sure, don't place any of the blame on any of the other denominations. How very Christian of you. Trollish reply to a trollish comment, so sue me. |
Muckraker Posts: 226 Joined: 29 Apr 2008 |
What?????? do i detect sarcasm |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1927 Joined: 15 Jun 2008 | |
Muckraker  Posts: 336 Joined: 8 Dec 2007 | Me? I hate Christianity because it holds a lot of negative connotations for me. Dogma, hypocrisy, blind faith, mob mentality, various silly laws that allow them freedom from taxes (despite religion being a personal thing, not a public thing), the willingness to dismiss all human action as being God inspired and generally devaluing anything human because "the lawd let us do it". I can only assume that there are similarly minded people out there, who are able to communicate their feelings via annonimity and not fear being hated by their religious neigbours. |
Muckraker Posts: 226 Joined: 29 Apr 2008 |
the thing so many of you obviously don't get is that the catholic church made the "cardinal sin" (its funny and if you don't get it why are you here) of creating a visible leader of their church and supporting their denomination with non-biblical rituals. while doing this they not only contradicted the bible, but on many matters went against what the apostle Paul outlined the church in Corinth to be. The catholic church is a great example of how power can corrupt even the purist of things. The structures the catholic church set into place were inevitable going to be corrupted, because they were not based on the bible, which may i add IS the definition of Christianity, not the many groups surrounding it but the bible itself. |
Muckraker  Posts: 231 Joined: 11 Oct 2008 | I wake up this morning to find this >.<... but I'll say my final piece. You can't prove Christianity. Back in the... oh, 11th century, a bunch of philosophers began trying to marry faith and reason, but in the end, they knew there were certain things that just cannot be proved, and they had no intent to disprove God whatsoever, so it didn't bother them too much (the movement: scholasticism; the thinkers: Thomas Aquinus, Abelard, and Albert the Great, to name the ones in my head) (Perry, Western Civilization: A Brief History, chap. 7) The only absolutely positively true thing out there is mathematics. 1 + 1 will always be 2 (you could get into calculus and all that here but I'm tired and wouldn't like you very much). History is written by the winners, politics change every time the wind blows, and what's true in religion can be proved untrue by science. The Big Bang, evolution, etc. This entire discussion is a good reason there's "all the hate" on Christianity. People don't agree and we rise against in defense, and that's not what people want. Most (not all) people don't want a theological discussion, and all (not most) don't want a theological discussion where the only "proof" the defender brings to the party is a very old, contradictory book that says you must stone a woman and man if they have premarital sex. So I understand. Truly, I do. Is there anyway to have a calm, intriguing discussion without falling back on, "This is what the Bible says, the Bible is right, you're wrong." versus "Your Bible is a sack of shit, it's all fake, you're wrong AND a sheep." Yes. I've had excellent discussions without a single mention of the Bible, and it's really served to open my eyes, and after studying the Bible for almost three semesters I'm not much closer to answering my questions, but I do have some insight. I came to college without the slightest idea of who Paul was, lol. The level of defense and anger we as Christians tend to portray when arguing is what makes others angry. Yes, it's an easy target (and not all Muslims are going to kill you. To use a terrorist as the face of Islam is the same as using, say, a Klan member as the face of Christianity. Don't do it; I'm studying terrorism!), but we make it more fun to say, "No!" to. We can raise the Bible as high as we want, but opponents will always say, "Where is your proof?" Christianity may be wrong. I concede that. I may die, and find out that absolutely nothing happens and I wasted my life by not smoking or drinking or having premarital sex, and if that's the case, well, crud. We may die and find out Pastafarianism is right, and we had no idea. There's no way to say, empirically, that this religion or that one is THE one and the ONLY one, and I think (finally) that's where the last bit of hating on Christianity comes from: how many Christians acknowledge that their religion just might be wrong? |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 625 Joined: 15 Jun 2008  | I have one last thing to say and then I'll stop butting into this thread every day. People seem to say that siding with religion is on the side of caution. That in case their is an afterlife then we should be religious. Well since most religions seem to condemn absolutely everyone for the stupidest reasons imaginable then I think Atheism is the side of caution. Why spend your entire life in fear of an afterlife you can't possibly know about in advance and hope you picked the right religion out of innummerable religions. I think you should try to actually enjoy your life in case their ISN'T an afterlife. If there is then I would hope it would be based on whether you were a good person, not on whether you accepted the arbitrary and contradictory rules of one oppressive faith or another. |
Muckraker Posts: 329 Joined: 12 Sep 2008 |
What? I have red more of the bible, and listened to readings, more than most moderate christians i reckon. And please do attempt to form a rebuttal, i look forward to your arguments. TO be honest, i'd love you to prove me worng and find out i'll og toheavenland with all the leprachauns, pixies, fairies and bunny rabbits. |
Paperboy  Posts: 24 Joined: 30 Aug 2008 | ""hippo24: -this is largely in part to the abuse, and corruption of the catholic church." However, many Muslims believe, and the Qu'ran teaches (I think) that the later (much more violent) texts 'cancel out' the older, more peaceful ones. I have done some research on this, I just have a poor memory for exact detail. The Christian religion also supports this (in theory) in the way that Christ's peace, love and forgiveness messages are supposed to 'cancel out' the 'eye for an eye' policies of the old testament. To return to the topic: Christianity receives bad press, and therefore bad public image (which leads to people slating it) because it is one of the largest world religions: it is so big that there are bound to be 'black sheep' in the flock, and these people get much more media coverage. The whole 'Pedo Priest' thing is a perfect example of this: there must be thousands of catholic priests, but thousands of people being nice, serving their communities doesn't grab headlines; one of these thousands being a paedophile does. Edit:I was trying to quote the message, and it didn't work |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2804 Joined: 22 Aug 2008 |
Huh. That's funny, what're the Arch Bishops of Canterbury and York then if not Church leaders? They're Church of England, not Catholics, as I recall. Way to go confirm exactly what I said about ignoring other denominations. I can't believe my "How very Christian of you" comment was lost on you, I felt really mean when I wrote that and I was kinda hoping you'd be insulted. That's what I was aiming for. |
Muckraker Posts: 226 Joined: 29 Apr 2008 |
When did I say I was a christian?? and I fail to see the point you are attempting to make. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2804 Joined: 22 Aug 2008 |
You're crazy biased against Catholics is the point I was making. I shouldn't have to spell it out like I'm talking to a six year old. |
Muckraker Posts: 226 Joined: 29 Apr 2008 |
Well to be honest with you I'm surprised you can't answer the question yourself, but because analysis seems to be a weak point of yours along with grammar and spelling (I'm no saint either) Ill kindly explain this to you. |
Muckraker Posts: 226 Joined: 29 Apr 2008 |
How do you know your not??? |
Gone Gonzo | |
As a European myself, I guess I hate christianity because I'm still pretty embarrassed about the vatican hegemony during the dark ages, where common sense and original thought took a back seat to being bullied into submission. This culminating in an international mass hysteria where we slaughtered and tortured random people for a few decades under the guise of piety (i.e., the witch hunts. fun fact: apparently the inquisitors were paid by the murder).
With this still burned into our collective memories, it still makes me cringe when I see televangelists shaming people into filling their pockets.
And I know for a fact that I am subject to prejudice on this point. I'm sure that there are many decent and intelligent Christians, I just zoom in on the nearest disingenuous manipulative bastard that calls himself a christian so I can rage a little.
Bottom line: I guess I'm closed-minded on this point. What can I say? Everyone needs to get outraged once in a while, I just picked Christianity (and organised religion in general) to get upset about. It's nothing personal - even though I'm sure it feels that way. For that I am sorry. Because honestly, I don't really care what group you're affiliated with, as long as you're a good guy, you're okay in my book.