Well, doesn't God's laws forbid hedonism in general and then heaven contradicts a life of doing nothing exciting by giving you all you never did for the rest of your afterlife?
I'm just trying to say, that perhaps if you didn't like hedonism in life... an eternity in a slightly warm place with a fallen angel might not be so bad.
Also, good and evil are not absolutes. I could kill a dog for no reason and then save a village from a dinosaur, then continuing on to murder some fellow who made me angry and then look after his child so he does not suffer a life of loneliness. What would I be on a moral scale?
The reason why is that the Christian religion has had a pretty bad record. consider this: over the last 2000 years the Christians have caused the most strife against almost every other race across the world and that makes them a very large target for insults and jest. now granted Christianity is not like it used to be, but this reputation is not going to go away overnight. Also another thing that might affect this is that "technically" Jesus was born, lived, and died Jewish, so that does makes him more of a target for jokes
Well, doesn't God's laws forbid hedonism in general and then heaven contradicts a life of doing nothing exciting by giving you all you never did for the rest of your afterlife?
I'm just trying to say, that perhaps if you didn't like hedonism in life... an eternity in a slightly warm place with a fallen angel might not be so bad.
-Actually its quite impossible to know exactly what heaven is like beacuse the bible clearly states ""What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard,and what no human mind has conceived these things God has prepared. (1 Corinthians 2:9)
Also, good and evil are not absolutes. I could kill a dog for no reason and then save a village from a dinosaur, then continuing on to murder some fellow who made me angry and then look after his child so he does not suffer a life of loneliness. What would I be on a moral scale?
- there is no established "scale" represented in the bible. I am assuming you are rather referring to how judgment will be determined.
In my opinion, judgments made by anyone (human or God) should be based on what people actually do in their lives. Also, the idea that an all-loving God would condemn anyone to eternal punishment is to me inherently repugnant. Shouldn't an all-loving God be able to forgive anyone, regardless of their deeds and their life? Isn't that what Christians claim that God and their religion is all about? If the criterion for eternal life and so forth is faith in the Christian God, where does that leave those people who are good but who don't believe in God? They don't have faith in the right thing, so they're fucked for eternity? That view doesn't seem compatible with the idea of a God who loves all of its creation.
but if you are looking for a biblical standpoint on this matter there is, as i have said before, many ways it can be interpreted.
While this area ,is to a degree, blurred in the bible, there are answers offered that range far and wide. The variation on these answers have caused numerous divisions in many denominations. Many people believe that if you follow god in spirit (aka. doing what Jesus would have done) then you are in essence believing in god whether you openly admit it or not (evidence of this is present in exodus when the lord is speaking to the judged). The other common line of thought is "grace through faith" this theme is a very common theme that began to originate at the formation of the christian church. The thoughts behind this theory is you must have faith (internal or external) in god in order to achieve favor. The final theory is grace through action. This divulges in the idea that you are judged based on actions alone, this last theory is not heavily supported in the bible but was very commonly found in churches during the medieval era.
-But ultimately this question is still heavily debated.
Why didn't god create us to follow his will :/ Why would he give us free will if he didn't want us to have it.
If he truly as merciful as they say he is, why would he damn his own creations to hell when could simply have created them to not disobey him. Does he like sending people to hell?
Well, doesn't God's laws forbid hedonism in general and then heaven contradicts a life of doing nothing exciting by giving you all you never did for the rest of your afterlife?
Ummm...that's an outright lie you have their buddy. God wants you to be happy. He does NOT want you to waste away your life. He doesn't say "don't ever do anything for personal pleasure" or "don't live an interesting life" or "don't do anything fun at all". Rather, it's more like:
"As long as you are observing My Laws, have as much fun as you want."
He created that which with we seek and have pleasure for that very reason. But He also knew that He would need a written law to govern the people who were going to the Promised Land and had been "corrupted" (for lack of a better term) by the culture of the ancient Egyptians. So he summoned Moses to the mountain to receive them. While Moses was gone, the people went batshit bonkers (turned away). Moses (mistakenly) smashed the Ten Commandments at the sight of what had taken place. God led the people away from the Promised Land so that no one who had turned away from Him would be able to enter.
I'm just trying to say, that perhaps if you didn't like hedonism in life... an eternity in a slightly warm place with a fallen angel might not be so bad.
Again, its your concept of heaven and hell. I'm not going to argue with you on it ('cause I haven't seen either) but I am not going to bet on MY happiness within the confines of hell ever.
Also, good and evil are not absolutes. I could kill a dog for no reason and then save a village from a dinosaur, then continuing on to murder some fellow who made me angry and then look after his child so he does not suffer a life of loneliness. What would I be on a moral scale?
NO...GOOD AND EVIL ARE ABSOLUTES- that is the greatest subversion unleashed upon religion in the 20th century. Yet I, as a physical human being unable to see into your soul or recognize your intentions, cannot label YOU (the cognizant you, the soul of Booze Zombie) as GOOD or EVIL (MANY CHRISTIANS COMPLETELY FALL OFF OF THIS BUS). However, your CHOICES and ACTIONS can be classified as either GOOD or EVIL in my mind. That is why Jesus said "Do not judge lest the same standard be used against you." Only He and His Father have the capacity to look into the hearts of men. Only God the Father has the "Scale of Morality" as you have put it so well. I (as many other Christians) believe that Jesus was sent for Mankind's intercession BECAUSE NO MAN could live within the WRITTEN LAW of GOD.
Think about it: When was God a liar? In the Garden, there was only one rule: "Don't eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, for thou shalt surely die". Eve and Adam (in that order) broke it at the behest of a serpent. They gained the knowledge of Good and Evil, and God had to expel them away from the Tree of Life- thus, 700 years later, ADAM DID DIE.
If you couldn't follow 1 rule, how could you follow 10?
If they have no knowledge of good or evil, why would they break the rules at the behest of a strange talking snake?
I think The Bible is made up by man, as is God... we humans are the greatest of things. We dream, we imagine, we work together and possibly our sub consciouses are linked... what else does this? Does God imagine? How can a figment of your mind or text on a book have so much control over us? Why do we say this figment helps us so much, when we hold all the weight and do all the thinking?
Isn't being led around by God's words the same as listening to the snake?
hippo24: [quote=TheDean post=18.73398.807023]Here's my other thing with Christianity. According to this religion- god has some type of divine plan for us. Everything we do is predetermined. Now, if that is so, it means god knows everything we will do, and in fact- since he is all-powerful, he made it happen.
So then how the hell can he punish us for doing what he told us to do?
Because we still have to excercise free will and MAKE the choice, despite the temptations that lay right by our side. I heard a debate once on whether or not Judas actually went to Hell for betraying Jesus. One side of the statement said that "If God had preordained Judas to be the betrayer of Jesus, then Judas should have gone to heaven for carrying out God's plan for him". NO, Judas used his FREE WILL and MADE THE CHOICE to betray Jesus. If he had not, God would have simply found SOMEONE ELSE.
Well, i guess if we'd read the story of moses we should expect that anyway.
No, Moses was guilty of the sins of pride and wrath...Wrath when he smashed the Ten Commandments at the sight of God's people completely turning away...and pride when he struck the rock instead of simply speaking to it. That was why he was not allowed to enter the Promised Land.
What? I have red more of the bible, and listened to readings, more than most moderate christians i reckon. And please do attempt to form a rebuttal, i look forward to your arguments. TO be honest, i'd love you to prove me worng and find out i'll og toheavenland with all the leprachauns, pixies, fairies and bunny rabbits.
Well to be honest with you I'm surprised you can't answer the question yourself, but because analysis seems to be a weak point of yours along with grammar and spelling (I'm no saint either) Ill kindly explain this to you. -The wills and ways of god are not defined in the bible, any person who claims to know gods without the sign of works is blasphemous CAREFUL: GOD WANTS US TO GO TO HEAVEN. While the bible does clearly state that god is both omniscient and omnipresent, it is also clearly stated that god created us with free will. The explanation to this is simple, and to eliminate the risk of loosing you through scripture I will present an analogy. Imagine you are a coach watching a football game of a past game, the players in the past had a choice to either to obey you or disobey you, now imagine you have the footage of this game and every other game to come, while the coach may try to accommodate the play to benefit the players it ultimately comes down to your personal choice to obey or disobey the play. -in closing I'm still confused as to what scriptures you used to attain your current opinion.
What scripture i used? It's called the bible. I like to read little bits they don't teach you in Sunday School. Not the stuff about fairies and streets paved with gold. Actually, my spelling and grammar are really good when i'm writing, i just suck at typing. My analysis is fine also. And no, quoting scripture wouldn't have lost me.
However, you just admitted that hte bible is vague. That's eomthing i hate about it. It's like a jogsaw puzzle we have to work out how to piece together. If it was that important god would have just told us the answer. Am i the only one who can see this? Ir is he just messing wit us again? "Guess what-- here us the answer to everyhting, pity it will take thousands of years for any of you to understand it. LOLOLOLOLOL" And no, according to religion we do not have free will, here is why. God is all-powerful. (YES.) That means he makes all the decisions. (NO, SEE BOTH ABOVE AND BELOW) If he has everything pre-determined, we cannot possibly have ANY free will whatsoever. None. The Bible does say we have free will, therefore it is contradicting itself. BUt come on, should we have expected any less form it? The bible constantly contradicts itself over and over again (UMM, NO, WHERE IS THE CONTRADICTION).
And just for the record, if you proved to me that god was real, i still wouldn't worship that frickin' egomaniac. If he came to me now, i'd kick him in the face- right where his face lives.
Better find some BIG SHOES. If mankind were able to successfully recreate Big Bang, it would prove that outside interference was necessary to upset the balance of the collapsed matter/energy? God is just simply too intelligent for scientists. But I digress...
What you seem to fail to realize is that if God DOES simply tell us the ultimate answer, than His plan completely fails, and all humanity is sent to Hell. Because if YOU KNOW the answer, you NO LONGER NEED FAITH. If faith is no longer necessary, than heaven is unachievable for man. But like Job, God shows us He exists in indirect ways. Right when the devil is about to finally win his wager with God (and Job is about to denounce God) God shows up and absolutely chastises Job.
Consider this: I ask you for directions in England. You pull out your map and tell me two roads to get where I am going. One of them you know (and I don't) is free and clear and will take me where I want to go. You tell me it will do so. The other is deadlocked in road construction. You tell me to watch for road construction signs on the road. You're human, you will probably tell me about the road construction and the detour. But say you just happen to know I am in a situation where you cannot tell me this info (be as vague or specific as you want). Me (not knowing what lies down the path) will still have to MAKE A CHOICE to take one road or the other. If I then hit the construction zone (and the subsequent detours)...do I then get to turn around and blame you for not telling me?
1. before we worry about whether or not Judas went to hell, we first have to wonder whether or not he was even real. Take a step back. 2. God is too intelligent for scientists! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAH That makes me lol for hours. 3. Yes, you could blame me for sending down the road with construction work going on. 4. I really hate the cutesy bit-by-bit response you did, i'm just sayin'. 5. About Job: God had a bet with the devil .HE made a dela with the devil! He was a complete ass ot poor Job, and then when Job gives up he is angry at him! WTF. I wanna punch this guy in the face for that. 6. This is what i was tlaking about form the story of Moses. God told Moses- ask Pharoah to release theguys, and i wil harden his heart and make him refuse, so i can be an ass some more and send plagues and kill babies- cos i enjoy it so frickin' much.
Why didn't god create us to follow his will :/ Why would he give us free will if he didn't want us to have it.
If he truly as merciful as they say he is, why would he damn his own creations to hell when could simply have created them to not disobey him. Does he like sending people to hell?
1) He did, read all of my previous posts. 2) He did create us with FREE WILL, we screwed it up in Eden.
I am going to play the role of God for a just a moment. NOW: I have just had to throw down 1/3 of my angels into limbo because they bought into Lucifer's bullshit due to the knowledge of evil. The rest of the angels I had to strip away their FREE WILL because it saddened me to have to cast the others away, and I did not want another uprising again.
But I am alone, and I DO FEEL LONLINESS. I have no one to talk to- all my angels say "Yes sir, no sir" robotically and without feeling. They can't understand me anymore
So I start a new project- I say "let there be light"- I create a universe, not unlike the one you live in. I shape it, I mold it, it has the PERFECT balance of matter, energy, etc. I take my first planet- I mold and shape it perfectly....etc. Remember, linear time does not exist for me-history doesn't exist for me. The planet, stars, heavens, fish, animals, seas, (yes I am taking this out of order but I want to get to the point) are created because I know that I cannot bring what I want to have into a universe of nothing. All of the above I create are not unlike the universe, planet, and animals you live in.
I shape Man...do I want another robot? NO, I give Him all of My abilities to think, feel, create, reason, name, and I give him FREE WILL to excercise all of these things to their fullest potential. I want to see him grow and learn. I know there is NO FREEDOM if he is created to simply obey.
But I hold two essences of My being back: because I have learned I must choose one thing or another for him:
A) Everlasting Life B) The Knowledge of Good and Evil
I create him, I create the world for him to live in. He names the animals, the plants, the energy. He is young and strong. But one day he confesses to me that all of the animals I have given him to sustain this world have someone to talk to of their own kind. I put him to sleep and create a girl. I give them one command: "You may eat the fruit of all trees except one..."
I have let Lucifer loose Paradise. I know he wishes to corrupt my creation, if only to spite me. But his voice must be allowed into Eden- or I am the very warden that Lucifer made Me out to be. He deceives Eve, then Adam...they eat from the Tree and gain the understanding of good and evil. I cannot allow them to be immortal any longer. I banish them from the the Tree of Life.....so what do I have to do to get what I really want?
I have to give them the opportunity (for them and for their descendents) to come back to Me of their own free will.
mkb07a: Just throwing this out there... I completely believe in evolution. And the question of who created God stumps me (and rightfully so, because there's no answer to it other than, aha! He doesn't exist). Hard science, in my book, trumps blind faith every time, but part of me will never, ever cease to believe in God. It's so ingrained that it's impossible to turn my back on it at this point.
That all being said, I don't expect (however hard I try) to find out the answers to every query raised and every contradiction stumbled upon. At some point, I'll be told (again) that I have to have faith. That's unfortunate for someone like me who so desperately seeks concrete, empirical truth, but that's religion. Religion doesn't have proof, period. That doesn't necessarily make it incorrect, but it doesn't make it correct, either.
Begging your pardon, I did not mean to sound like I knew nothing about evolution...I understand the theory of natural selection, and how adaptations allow species to evolve physically, mentally, and behaviorally to their surroundings- but to tell me that:
1) ONE planet in the universe created the atmosphere to facilitate life (SCIENCE HAS NOT FOUND ANOTHER YET, and trust me, they have been searching). Meaning: PERFECT balance of Hydrogen, Nitrogen, and Oxygen in the atmosphere, PERFECT iron core and rotation so that sunlight could bathe the planet almost equally (and so that we have the WATER CYCLE), PERFECT distance from the STAR (otherwise known as the SUN) so that it is neither too hot nor too cold, PERFECT distance from other planets as to not interfere with the creation of said atmosphere, PERFECT balance of iron, carbon, and the 120 or so other elements on the periodic table?). PERFECT distance away from other stars and from the center (BLACK HOLE, proven undisputed now) of our galaxy?- Just in that, I have listed millions of variables that scientists both HAVE and HAVE NOT found.
2) That life developed on a cellular level, adapted to change to its changing and unstable environment by growing fins, flippers, teeth, lights on its head, emerged from the water, grew legs,etc. MILLIONS OF SPECIES EVOLVING PERFECTLY AT DIFFERENT TIMES BUT STRANGELY JUST IN TIME TO BENEFIT OR LIMIT THE GROWTH OF OTHERS.
3) That some of that life was made extinct by the impacts of one or several meteors that happened to wipe out the dinosaurs but somehow spared sharks, plants, cellular and mammilian life? That life since then has put in order that has not been broken in the eons that passed between dinosaurs and mankind's first appearance.
Umm...then to tell me the paramecium did it all by himself (with no external help) doesn't make very much sense to me either. (By the way, Darwin is still looking, and the MISSING LINK between Australopithicus and man kind has yet to be found).
To quote Jim Carrey in Bruce Almighty, "Now You're just showing off."
As far as "What Created God?", the answer to that depends on your interpretation of the Book of Genesis (which is mutually shared by Islam, Judaism, and almost all derivatives of Christianity). In the beginning there was God...and the Word was with God. (I lack direct quote here)... If you take the phrase (The WORD) as the empirical concept of "Order", then that's where He came from. Not the best explanation, but one I can accept (besides, if nothing existed before the Big Bang came along, then what does it matter anyway?).
Having faith is by no means not being scientific. And turning to it in times of crisis for spiritual strength and healing is more helpful than hurtful to a person.
No! You don't have to have faith. Question everything. Never give up looking for answers. Religion teaches us that we don't need to know answers. Then again, religion is a lie.
Not totally true. I question everything about the world around me, and have all too often come to different conclusions because of it. You say that simply because a great many people don't bother to ask these questions. But ultimately the underlying order of the universe is the pure empirical evidence that you seek. Many people who were firmly founded in their beliefs used both art and science as a way to try and understand their God.
Xhumed: Tell that to the Doctors whose clinics get fire bombed.
Once again, extremism taken to the Nth degree. God is perfect, man strives to be God...but subversion and perversion of the Word happens regularly. On the subject of abortion: T.D. Jakes is a pastor out of North Carolina and he asks a very simple sentence when the abortion issue was raised to him. It points out one of the very problems the (Christian)church as a whole has had with contradicting opinions:
"How can we continue to stand against abortion yet shun women with illegitimate children?"
EDIT: That is one of the ways MAN is inconsistent, but not GOD.
Just 2 things: Word and order are not the same thing. The bible is , once again, very vague and open to unlimited different interpretations. ARGH! Also, Religion and sceince are opposites. Science requires evidence.v rleigion does to. However, with faith what you do is you not only believe without evidence, but when evidence does come along- you believe the exact opposite of all the evidence. That's faith, that's religion.
How does God have the abillity to create? If we are in his image, surely we should have that abillity, too? To magically make worlds because we're alone and sad?
TheDean: Here's my other thing with Christianity. According to this religion- god has some type of divine plan for us. Everything we do is predetermined. Now, if that is so, it means god knows everything we will do, and in fact- since he is all-powerful, he made it happen.
So then how the hell can he punish us for doing what he told us to do?
Well, i guess if we'd read the story of moses we should expect that anyway.
ummm......I can't even form a rebuttal for this because you like many people on this thread have the amazing ability to form an opinion without having done so much as read the bible, let alone analyze it
What? I have red more of the bible, and listened to readings, more than most moderate christians i reckon. And please do attempt to form a rebuttal, i look forward to your arguments. TO be honest, i'd love you to prove me worng and find out i'll og toheavenland with all the leprachauns, pixies, fairies and bunny rabbits.
Well to be honest with you I'm surprised you can't answer the question yourself, but because analysis seems to be a weak point of yours along with grammar and spelling (I'm no saint either) Ill kindly explain this to you. -The wills and ways of god are not defined in the bible, any person who claims to know gods without the sign of works is blasphemous. While the bible does clearly state that god is both omniscient and omnipresent, it is also clearly stated that god created us with free will. The explanation to this is simple, and to eliminate the risk of loosing you through scripture I will present an analogy. Imagine you are a coach watching a football game of a past game, the players in the past had a choice to either to obey you or disobey you, now imagine you have the footage of this game and every other game to come, while the coach may try to accommodate the play to benefit the players it ultimately comes down to your personal choice to obey or disobey the play. -in closing I'm still confused as to what scriptures you used to attain your current opinion.
What scripture i used? It's called the bible. I like to read little bits they don't teach you in Sunday School. Not the stuff about fairies and streets paved with gold. Actually, my spelling and grammar are really good when i'm writing, i just suck at typing. My analysis is fine also. And no, quoting scripture wouldn't have lost me.
However, you just admitted that hte bible is vague. That's eomthing i hate about it. It's like a jogsaw puzzle we have to work out how to piece together. If it was that important god would have just told us the answer. Am i the only one who can see this? Ir is he just messing wit us again? "Guess what-- here us the answer to everyhting, pity it will take thousands of years for any of you to understand it. LOLOLOLOLOL" And no, according to religion we do not have free will, here is why. God is all-powerful. That means he makes all the decisions. If he has everything pre-determined, we cannot possibly have ANY free will whatsoever. None. The Bible does say we have free will, therefore it is contradicting itself. BUt come on, should we have expected any less form it? The bible constantly contradicts itself over and over again.
And just for the record, if you proved to me that god was real, i still wouldn't worship that frickin' egomaniac. If he came to me now, I'd kick him in the face- right where his face lives.
well I do have answers for you, but your a very closed minded individual and further explaining anything to you be the equivalent to talking to a proverbial wall. So im not going to waste time trying to convince you that you just might be wrong, about something. instead i'm going to play fracture (yes it's shitty) and ignore you.
-If the bible is confusing to you maybe you should learn Hebrew.
Serriously Dude, what the hell. A christian calls ME closed-minded. I want to laugh so hard right now. Some type of irony there surely. And no, i wil not learn Hebrew. Basically you said this: You are wrong, i am right, but i n't want to explain why because i know i can't. I am open to any interpretation. And let's just get this straight, i don't dislike people fo their beliefs. Just in case you thought i did.
Because it is popular. Most kids don't like to "conform" to the way society wants them to be, so they seperate themselves by doing exactly what their friends do.
TheBadass: It's not just Christianity, it's religion in general. Christianity is just the one we - as people from the Western world - are exposed to the most, so it gets the most attention. If it makes you feel better the same would be done if Scientology was talked about as often.
You basically nailed it
I mean, it's not as if Christianity is the only religion is mocked. People mock Islam, Scientology, and even Atheism and Agnostiscm all the time, just maybe not where you're looking.
If negative comments on your religion offend, relax. I mean, it's only religion.
And if religion means so much to you that you can't, then just avoid the topics.
Why didn't god create us to follow his will :/ Why would he give us free will if he didn't want us to have it.
If he truly as merciful as they say he is, why would he damn his own creations to hell when could simply have created them to not disobey him. Does he like sending people to hell?
1) He did, read all of my previous posts. 2) He did create us with FREE WILL, we screwed it up in Eden.
[ 1) Can't be arsed. 2) He also created us ignorant, how should we know what to do and what not to do?]
I am going to play the role of God for a just a moment. NOW: I have just had to throw down 1/3 of my angels into limbo because they bought into Lucifer's bullshit due to the knowledge of evil.
[If he created everything, he created angels. If he knows everything, he'd know that they'd disobey him. He basically made someones destiny to be thrown down into limbo, that's fucking sadistic. He also created the devil, who he must have known would disobey him. Yet he let Lucifer disobey him and acknowledge evil, and on top of it all he also created a place for that guy to rule in.]
The rest of the angels I had to strip away their FREE WILL because it saddened me to have to cast the others away, and I did not want another uprising again.
[Why did he let the uprising happen in the first place? If he didn't know about it, wouldn't that mean he's not all knowing?]
But I am alone, and I DO FEEL LONLINESS. I have no one to talk to- all my angels say "Yes sir, no sir" robotically and without feeling. They can't understand me anymore
[You're god for Christs bloody sake, create some Morphine worthy of a god if you're so tired of being upset all the time.]
So I start a new project- I say "let there be light"- I create a universe, not unlike the one you live in. I shape it, I mold it, it has the PERFECT balance of matter, energy, etc. I take my first planet- I mold and shape it perfectly....etc. Remember, linear time does not exist for me-history doesn't exist for me. The planet, stars, heavens, fish, animals, seas, (yes I am taking this out of order but I want to get to the point) are created because I know that I cannot bring what I want to have into a universe of nothing. All of the above I create are not unlike the universe, planet, and animals you live in.
[What, you lost me. How was that relevant?]
I shape Man...do I want another robot? NO, I give Him all of My abilities to think, feel, create, reason, name, and I give him FREE WILL to excercise all of these things to their fullest potential. I want to see him grow and learn. I know there is NO FREEDOM if he is created to simply obey.
[Oh, that's how it was relevant... But if you want him to be free, what is the purpose of punishing him when he doesn't do exactly what you want?]
But I hold two essences of My being back: because I have learned I must choose one thing or another for him:
A) Everlasting Life B) The Knowledge of Good and Evil
I create him, I create the world for him to live in. He names the animals, the plants, the energy. He is young and strong. But one day he confesses to me that all of the animals I have given him to sustain this world have someone to talk to of their own kind. I put him to sleep and create a girl. I give them one command: "You may eat the fruit of all trees except one..."
[However you know everything, and so you know that they're destined to disobey you. You're giving them a false option. In the end , you still know what's going to happen. You're also going to punish them for it. Hell, you're even as bad as not letting have the proper knowledge of good and bad, how could they know that disobeying you wouldn't be the right thing?]
I have let Lucifer loose Paradise. I know he wishes to corrupt my creation, if only to spite me. But his voice must be allowed into Eden- or I am the very warden that Lucifer made Me out to be.
[You're all powerful, if you didn't like Lucifer why don't you just bloody turn him into someone you like?]
He deceives Eve, then Adam...they eat from the Tree and gain the understanding of good and evil. I cannot allow them to be immortal any longer.
[Huh? Once they realize how to follow your rules, you punish them?]
I banish them from the the Tree of Life.....so what do I have to do to get what I really want?
[Reset Universe]
I have to give them the opportunity (for them and for their descendents) to come back to Me of their own free will.
[The why is faith required? A person can't possibly be expected to know what's right and what is wrong when they have to idea which one of you bloody gods is the right one, or if it's even possible that one of you exists. You're a sadistic bastard for letting your own creations have to guess between a couple of mystery doors, and if they choose the wrong one they're sent to hell.]
Ya, tried answering most of it. I'm tired now and I was tired while writing it so don't whine too much if I messed up something.
If god exists (which he most likely does not) he's pretty damn evil by human standards.
He's good by his own standards perhaps, that's all that counts right? Well, he can break a rule every now and the without being evil because hey, he's god. You're not, god have the ability to make himself not a hypocrite. You do not have the ability to make yourself not a hypocrit, sucks for you. Follow his rules or burn in hell for being yourself.
God loves us all, however love can mean whatever the hell he wants. He can also make it so that this kind of love only applies to him, he's god after all. He created love, he can alter it to fit his needs.
The main thing that bugs me is when people say "Our Lord Jesus Christ"...I never voted for him. Also why must every refernce be capitalised? "Himself," "His Bidding" etc...it's just bugging. And lastly why do christians (not the lower case c) always call their god, "God" when his name is Jehovah/ Yahweh. Kinda seems like their trying to get a monopoly on the whole religion thing
Yeah, God is kind of a bad dude, killing people in a flood and stuff like that.
If I was to tell someone I was going to murder them but gave them a chance to run away, if he chooses to stay he may be stupid but I would still be a murderer. Hope you see how this ties in with the whole Noah fiasco.
Well, doesn't God's laws forbid hedonism in general and then heaven contradicts a life of doing nothing exciting by giving you all you never did for the rest of your afterlife?
I'm just trying to say, that perhaps if you didn't like hedonism in life... an eternity in a slightly warm place with a fallen angel might not be so bad.
Also, good and evil are not absolutes. I could kill a dog for no reason and then save a village from a dinosaur, then continuing on to murder some fellow who made me angry and then look after his child so he does not suffer a life of loneliness.
What would I be on a moral scale?