First of all let's get the fact that I am a die hard atheist out of the way. I do not believe that there is a God or higher power of any form, nor do I believe that human beings have souls or that after we die we will be rewarded or punished based on the way we lived our lives.

Now that that's done let's get to the point of this thread. Atheism, as described above, is the lack of belief in any God or higher power. Atheists are typically open minded individuals who respect the views of others. We don't step on anyone's beliefs as long as they don't step on our beliefs (Or lack thereof). So why do we atheists get so much attitude from the religious community?

Several times in my past I have met someone and become friendly with them. We might even remain friendly with each other for a while, but as soon as the topic of religion comes up it can ruin the entire relationship. For instance, I had met a girl (Let's call her Jane for the purposes of this.) at a dinner party and we hit it off. We had similar interests in music, film and books and things seemed to be going well. Until the actual dinner was getting started and most of the people there stood to say grace.

When the praying was done she sat down next to me and asked why I hadn't stood up. When I replied that I was an atheist and that praying would have been very hypocritical of me, she seemed shocked and even slightly offended that I didn't share her Cristian beliefs. Needless to say, we didn't exchange numbers.

This was not a one time thing, and I'm sure it's happened to others of you who are atheists (Or even have different religions and have been turned away because of it.)

I've been trying for quite some time now to understand what it is about religious people (Predominantly Christians, because where I'm from is a mostly Christian society and I don't know of many people of other faiths) that makes them so closed minded, and so disrespectful toward other people's beliefs. After some serious thought and looking into this, I came across what I believe to be the reason:

Anti-theism.

Anti-theism, while commonly confused with atheism, is an entirely different thing. Anti-theists do share the same lack-of-belief that atheists do in that they do not believe there is any God or higher power of any kind, but they are not as open minded or tolerant as we atheists are. A question for any religious person reading this: Have you ever had someone who claimed to be an atheist talk down to you because you have religious beliefs, or even attempt to convert you to atheist by arguing with you about your faith?

This is not an atheist, this is an anti-theist. Someone who is completely against the belief in a higher power (Theism) and who takes pride in disrespecting and looking down upon religious people as if they were an inferior, less enlightened form of human.

Now let's be clear, non-believers are not the only one's guilty of this. I've had my fair share of persecution from religious people. I've had people claim I was the anti-Christ, or that I was a Satan worshiper when I told them I didn't believe in god. And when I informed them that I don't believe the devil exists either they get even more put off and usually leave the room.

I actually once had a teacher fail me in a class because we were asked to write our final essay on a controversial topic of our choosing and I chose religion. She deemed some of what I wrote to be blasphemous and failed me because she was a devout Christian. Needless to say I took this up with the board of directors, but because they were all Christian as well they took her side and I had to re-do my entire essay.

So what's my point here you might be asking yourself, and it's simple.

In the short term people need to recognize the difference between atheism and anti-theism, because frankly I'm tired of being cut off and viewed as a blasphemous heretic based on passed experiences people have had with anti-theists. Whether in person or seeing them argue about it on television or some other medium. And I'm sure others of you are tired of it as well.

In the long term people need to become more respectful of other people's beliefs. If you believe in God, that's great, I respect that. If you worship Allah, that's great too. If you believe in nothing at all then that's also great.

Why can't we all think like this? And to use the age old cliche:

Why can't we all just get along?

Thank you for clearing this up. I've had my beliefs stepped by these anti-theists and I assumed they were atheists.

So, in a nutshell, anti-theists are to atheists what evangelicals are to most christians? (If I'm utterly wrong here please ignore me)

because i think that people that believe in a God have made a stupid choice.... it's that simple.

I just dont see how you could not have made a stupid choice such as believe of god with the mountain of evidence against it, and the complete lack of evidence for it.

No one has provided a good argument for God based on LOGIC and FACTS.

That simple, if you believe in god, you are somewhat stupid.... regardless of intelligence.

Einstein was a dumbass too : )

I would prefer to believe that I am an atheist, but I know for sure that in the presence of say, a Creationist, I display distinct anti-theist tenancies. To be fair that's often in response to having someone tell me that I'm a heretic who's going to burn in hell for eternity, but still.

Oh, and then there's the times I've been hassled by people of.. by now three different faiths for walking hand-in-hand with a girl. Fucking hell it's annoying.

Oh, and then there's the times I've been hassled by people of.. by now three different faiths for walking hand-in-hand with a girl. Fucking hell it's annoying.

Depends on the kind of hassling. Wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more say no more!

I'm an atheist till a theist annoys me, then I turn on anti-theistic mode and...well, I don't like to do it often because getting angry kinda makes me tired and sleepy.

Amnestic:

Oh, and then there's the times I've been hassled by people of.. by now three different faiths for walking hand-in-hand with a girl. Fucking hell it's annoying.

Depends on the kind of hassling. Wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more say no more!

I'm an atheist till a theist annoys me, then I turn on anti-theistic mode and...well, I don't like to do it often because getting angry kinda makes me tired and sleepy.

That's really just a defense mechanism, though.

As a strongly committed scientist and evolutionist, I tend towards atheism, because I see no current place for a god in accepted theories. I don't show any anti-theistic tendencies, but I do show exceptionally strong tendencies to rip creationism apart at any opportunity. Luckily, I'm a university student in a country where scientific education doesn't even get into creationism as a possibility, and not only that, but studying biology and chemistry.

I would consider myself both an anti-theist and an atheist. When I signed up nobody told me I had to respect any faith or religion, nobody told me not to be intolerant. Look at somebody like Bill Maher, or Penn Jillette for example.

I'm generally an athiest, but I tend to resist when people try and tell me about the 'savior' or whatever they're into. Then I guess I spout anti-theism. I get annoyed when people talk at me when I've made my feelings very clear.

I'm... highly outnumbered.

Christian, believe in a higher power, but won't give anyone any evangalism/flack but a "If you want to talk, I'm cool to" about religion. Frankly, I believe in the "Do unto others" rule. It's a golden rule, even among Bible-thumpers, but it's a rule that's most often ignored.

Your choice in religion, is just that, yours. If I start shoving my religion down your throat, am I any better then a "godless heretic who cuts down Christians in the street"? They're both sins, and they're both in the Ten Commandments.

Personally, I won't get snappy with you until you do so with me, and when you do so with me, then I feel entitled to either ignore you, or reply in kind. Until then, your personal choice is just that, I won't scorn what you are so long as you don't scorn what I am.

Easy enough, no?

Beowulf DW:

Amnestic:

Oh, and then there's the times I've been hassled by people of.. by now three different faiths for walking hand-in-hand with a girl. Fucking hell it's annoying.

Depends on the kind of hassling. Wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more say no more!

I'm an atheist till a theist annoys me, then I turn on anti-theistic mode and...well, I don't like to do it often because getting angry kinda makes me tired and sleepy.

That's really just a defense mechanism, though.

Well yeah, which is why I define myself as an atheist. I let people be with their own personal choices in life, even if I personally can't fathom them.

Yes I'd say that's a very fair comparison actually.

I'm more or less on the same page as you. I don't disrespect anyone's beliefs unless they disrespect mine. As I stated in my original post. I had a teacher talk down to a group of us who were atheists or agnostic once, so we spent about two hours basically quizzing her on her knowledge of the Bible, correcting her on common mistakes Christians make about their own faith. And dropping other historical and scientific knowledge on her that serves as evidence against the existence of a creator.

I felt bad about it afterwards though, I don't like doing that to people.

Highly refreshing to see a Christian with that attitude, I rarely come across it.

EDIT: Condensed quote walls.

I have learned never to bring up the topic of religion to any of my friends if I know they aren't athiests like me, I made that mistake in elementary school and ended up getting shunned for it.
I don't have anything against thiests, they just believe what they were raised to believe. my best friend happens to be a die hard "saved" christian, and she's trying really hard to "save my soul" from going to hell because she believes whole heartedly that unless I accept Jesus as my savior I am going to hell. I think It's kind of sweet how she cares about me in that way. I am a little insulted that she thinks I'm going to hell though...

I have learned never to bring up the topic of religion to any of my friends if I know they aren't athiests like me, I made that mistake in elementary school and ended up getting shunned for it.

Inquire if jokes at religion's expense are okay first. Make jokes second. Some of the religious people I've met are perfectly happy laughing at jokes I make about it, because they're just that: jokes.

Some are anal about it though, which is why you have to ask first >_>

Jobz:
[snip]

I'm more or less on the same page as you. I don't disrespect anyone's beliefs unless they disrespect mine. As I stated in my original post. I had a teacher talk down to a group of us who were atheists or agnostic once, so we spent about two hours basically quizzing her on her knowledge of the Bible, correcting her on common mistakes Christians make about their own faith. And dropping other historical and scientific knowledge on her that serves as evidence against the existence of a creator.

I felt bad about it afterwards though, I don't like doing that to people.

[snip]

You people and your consciences... Hah!

I've always been ashamed to call myself an athiest because of the milatant associations. I've often noted the insane similarities between psychotic christians and most athiests i've met. I don't have any knowledge for sure, i mean i have my theroys and I worship rock music, so i really dont have any idea what i believe, but Thank You for showing me not all athiests are psycotics

I do not believe in God, this is true, but nor do I refute the right of other people to believe in a higher power. My main reason for this belief is that, while I may not agree with the mythology behind religions, I support many of the rules that they provide. For example, I support the Ten Commandments, not as a religious artifact, but rather as a guideline of human behavior (minus a few commandments, obviously).

Labyrinth:

Jobz:
[snip]

I'm more or less on the same page as you. I don't disrespect anyone's beliefs unless they disrespect mine. As I stated in my original post. I had a teacher talk down to a group of us who were atheists or agnostic once, so we spent about two hours basically quizzing her on her knowledge of the Bible, correcting her on common mistakes Christians make about their own faith. And dropping other historical and scientific knowledge on her that serves as evidence against the existence of a creator.

I felt bad about it afterwards though, I don't like doing that to people.

[snip]

You people and your consciences... Hah!

Funny you should point that out. Being intolerant towards others is really the only thing I ever feel bad about.

Aside from that, doing 'bad deeds' has never phased me.

Die hard Anti-Theist here. Not the randomly-pick-a-fight kind, I like to think I'm as open minded as how you describe true atheists.

I hate religion. I think it is mostly a crutch for weak willed people, but it does have its uses from time to time. My problem with faith stems not from the belief in a higher power, but in the belief in all the dogma surrounding each religion.

On its own, the whole love everybody aspects of most religions is a good thing, and I have no problem with people who simply try to live an honest and kind life. I don't go picking fights with people like this, it's the bible belts, fundamentalists, and religious activists I abhor. More though than I hate the hardline religious nuts, I actually have more loathing for the middle-ground people. The ones who believe they have to live by the bible's rules, or by what the church says. Not hardcore like the fundies, but the kind of person who will tell you they can't work on a Sunday because it's a sin.

Why would I hate these people? They aren't as dangerous as fundamentalists, they aren't shoving it in my face like evangelists... It's because they are SHEEP. It's one thing to take the lessons of a book like the bible and apply them to your life, it's a whole other thing to follow the rules as laid out. A book written over two thousand years in the past by multiple anonymous sources, translated multiple times throughout the ages, and filled with propaganda in each revision... You're going to follow THAT as if it's the word of God? Grow a fucking brain.

God does not care what you do/don't eat. God does not hold any day of the week as holy. God does not consider sex a sin. These are all things a man has written in to suit his own purpose. The Mormons are the most shining example of his bullshittery, the Book of Mormon being the work of a normal man with no more connection to God than any other living being, an elaborate lie to shape a society in his preferred style. I'm not saying you can't take away some good wholesome values from the Book of Mormon, or the Bible, or event the Koran... But to live your life by its scriptures is fucking pathetic.

So I am an anti-theist. I don't believe in God, I don't believe in Religion, but I don't believe that means we should do away with all the good it can bring even if it is a falsehood... But I DO believe that you shouldn't go too far with faith, and I fight any attempt to turn people into sheep.

Amnestic:

I have learned never to bring up the topic of religion to any of my friends if I know they aren't athiests like me, I made that mistake in elementary school and ended up getting shunned for it.

Inquire if jokes at religion's expense are okay first. Make jokes second. Some of the religious people I've met are perfectly happy laughing at jokes I make about it, because they're just that: jokes.

Some are anal about it though, which is why you have to ask first >_>

all I did was tell them I was an athiest....

One phrase: "Fuck sheeple." And yes. Fuck them all. With a rake.

Smiles:
I think It's kind of sweet how she cares about me in that way. I am a little insulted that she thinks I'm going to hell though...

Just popping by to explain your friend's point of view a bit. Specifically in my religion, Southern Baptist, you'll find a ton of evangelists. As a matter of fact, you can't swing a cat without hitting one. The core of evangelism, especially how it's taught around here, is as follows:
Those who do not accept Jesus are going to hell.
That's it. You can be the best person in the world, most Godly, and truest-to-the-core "best person ever," but if they don't accept Jesus, off to Hell.

The issue with this, obviously, is that it leverages you against being non-evangelical. The root is "If you care about anyone at all, convert them so they don't burn in hell." So it's working against the compassion/benefit teachings. So, unless you evangelize and convert every single soul you care about, before they die, then they're going to Hell.
And it's all your fault.
I hope you feel bad about yourself, "Christian," you just condemned your loved one to Hell. So go evangelize, or else you're hell-binding them.

So, it's a sign she cares, and that she's easily bent by teachings. It's shameful, but that's how some religious leaders are. Frankly, these kinds of people are no better than belligerent anti-theists. Manipulation isn't the way to go about being a good person...

No matter what religion you subscribe to.

EDIT
This would've made an awesome 666th post... Also, when did I get over 800?

I don't know what to classify myself religion-wise, I believe that there's a god, but only because I don't believe that everything just exploded into being. (As awesome as that is.)

Yeah, this is all we need. More stupid labels. Various people believe different things, just because one holds certain beliefs doesn't mean that we need to create a new "category" for every single group. Sure Atheism doesn't imply that you try to force others to agree with you, but it doesn't mean we need a new label for people that do. The world is not black and white, it's all shades of grey.

To clarify I am technically is agnostic as in there is no proof god(s) exist(s), so they probably don't but to totally discount the idea without any proof is just as bad and believes religion is a bad idea. But I generally have to describe myself as an atheist because my beliefs hing toward the no god side. Labels like this are nothing but devicive.

Smiles:

Amnestic:

I have learned never to bring up the topic of religion to any of my friends if I know they aren't athiests like me, I made that mistake in elementary school and ended up getting shunned for it.

Inquire if jokes at religion's expense are okay first. Make jokes second. Some of the religious people I've met are perfectly happy laughing at jokes I make about it, because they're just that: jokes.

Some are anal about it though, which is why you have to ask first >_>

all I did was tell them I was an athiest....

they probably fall into the anal category then, in which case fuck em, not worth your time.

Wow, I, too am very outnumbered.
I am not atheist, but rather follow my own set of beliefs. I was raised Christian but I find much of Christianity to be ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I believe in many of the same values (helping others), however, I believe that anything is possible. I strongly lean towards polytheism because it just seems to make more sense than monotheism (why, if there is one all-loving god, is there famine and sorrow?). I do accept the possibility of there being one god or no upper beings also. I guess you could call me agnostic. However, I always love to chat about religion and the different possibilities, so long as others aren't so cocky that they think that there is only one strict possibility and that they are always right. Great topic, btw.

I'm definitely an atheist, but I don't think anti-theists are as bad as Jobz makes them out to be. As far as I know, while atheism is the lack of belief in a higher power, anti-theism is the belief that there is no higher-power. Ass-holes of either type are just that: ass-holes. You get them in every belief system.