Yes |
 |
5.9% (37) |
No |
|
94.1% (588) |
| (Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 ... 35) | |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1169 Joined: 6 Jun 2008     | |
Paperboy  Posts: 33 Joined: 26 Sep 2008   |
They don't have our level of intelligence, but surely we can agree that a cow's interests include not being killed? thats exactly my point there not smart enouf to realize whats happening, its not like farms are POW camps were all the cows are freaking out thinking they could be exicueted at any moment. cows dont have interests there to dumb. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 162 Joined: 17 Jul 2008    | The only early humans were able to grow such large brains(brain is made of fat)was by haveing acess to large amounts of protine(AKA meat) so take that hippies!!! JK |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 427 Joined: 7 May 2008   |
But I don't wanna! Waaah! Seriously, I might, eventualy, but I'd have to think of some stirring speech to put at the start, which I really don't want to do. It's four am over here, so I'm feeling pretty lazy right now. Keep an eye out for it, I suppose. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1126 Joined: 17 Jun 2008     |
If we started growing more vegetation to support the world we'd have enough giving off oxygen. You also have to realize that not every country would be able to make the switch no matter how hypothetical. The little kids in Africa aren't living on lettuce. Also, trees do most of the work for oxygen, right? I'm not sure if you like bark in your salad but I think we'd be ok with them. |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 685 Joined: 11 May 2008  | Well, of course it's barbaric... It's damn fucking delicious too |
Muckraker  Posts: 333 Joined: 23 Apr 2008    | Eating raw meat with your hands is barbaric. Crazy salad munchers, stop listening to society, put on a pound or two! at least you wont be pale anymore. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2665 Joined: 22 Jun 2008  |
That paleness comes from lack of Vitamin A. I learned something in nutrition:D. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1126 Joined: 17 Jun 2008 |
They do have interests, which include survival.
I'd politely like to disagree with that. The only other vegetarian kids in school I know are fellow Honors and AP students. I think we're doing just fine when it comes to intelligence. It may be a small number, but it's the only number I know off the top of my head. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2665 Joined: 22 Jun 2008 |
Well that could be on the fact of convience/Family funding. Being a vegitarien isn't cheap especially if your using quite a few vitamins/multi-vitamins. Also here is a, 8th grade student. Honors history, English, reading(Still have reading, Mostly storys and stuff as a compliment to english.) Geomtry, Biology. Zero homework done in all those classes and great test grades. Very few veggies, My diet is full of protien and carbohydrates. Take that you leaf munchers?:P |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 356 Joined: 21 Feb 2008 |
By "higher" you mean "better"? And as someone who has already made that transition that would effectively make you "better" than the rest of us? Do you see where I was coming from on the self-righteous comment? If you don't mind me asking, how long have you been a vegetarian? I have to say, you're a bit more informed than ones I've encountered in the past. You'll probably get a kick out of this. In high school I knew this girl who suddenly took up vegetarianism one day. She couldn't have been more obnoxious about it either, calling everyone eating a hamburger a "murderer". The funny part was she started brown bagging for lunch and she'd proudly sit down at the lunch table with her salad, celery, and lime jello. I didn't have the heart to tell her. So yeah, kudos for actually reading some books or whatever you did to learn about being a vegetarian. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 874 Joined: 14 Dec 2007  | Well, let's just assume that everybody on Earth stops eating meat right now. First thing that's going to happen is the world economy is going to get even more screwed up then it already is. After all, it's harder, more expensive, and slower to make fruits, vegetables, nuts, etc, a main part of the average diet. See for yourself, grow a garden that will support you for life. Now, does anybody really think it's plausible for the world to sustain itself on those things only for the amount of time needed to plant, grow, contain, and ship enough for everyone? Not to mention all the competition between companies to get out as many power bars and protein pills as possible. Next, and this is more long-term, think about what would happen to the animal population. There was an incident in New Hampshire (I would know, I live here) a few years back where the deer population was out of control. There were so many of them that many started dropping dead in winter from starvation. It got so bad that Fish and Game dropped the hunting tax and expanded the season. Now, think about that on a global scale and you end up with one of two options, either we build giant areas for cows alone to contain them all and give them enough room to move about, effectively taking away much needed farm-land, or we kill them once they hit a certain age/stop making milk/what have you. Attempting to find a "shade of gray" would be bad for both parties as the cows wouldn't have enough room to move and we wouldn't have enough farm land. Do I think that eating meat is immoral? No. I think it's necessary in order to help keep everything in check. Do I think that most meat plants treat the animals shitty and the owners need to be slapped? Yes. There is no reason for animal cruelty, and we as human beings should strive to be better. Do I think that vegetarians are fools and if you don't eat meat you should go die in a hole? Absolutely not. I have several vegetarian friends, and I think that anybody who would go out of their way to call attention to the poor ways many stock animals are treated should be commended. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 174 Joined: 18 Mar 2008 | I am a vegetarian, but because of the methods we use here in America to slaughter our animals, though if it was more humane, clean, and safe, I would still try and cut down on meat cause of the health issues I have read about it. Yes the ball seems to keep going back and forth between "vegetarianism does nothing" and "does wonders". |
Muckraker  Posts: 308 Joined: 23 Jul 2008 |
I don't see how abstaining from a food source is a sign of humanitarian improvement, just because the food source happens to have sentient thought or awareness. I promise you, talk about lab rats and unethical experimenting on animals, and I'm behind you 100%. But those principles have no place concerning what eats what. If you're gonna sit here and try to make a socialist observation on a clearly hierarchical food chain, then you've completely missed the mark. Man may be equal, but life is not. |
Press Junketeer Posts: 427 Joined: 7 May 2008 |
I... Shit, you just ruined the only plan I have. Okay, mister smarty fart, let's see you come up with something! No, really, please do, my brain is broken. |
Anonymous Source  Posts: 9 Joined: 13 Sep 2008   | To the main question that this thread started off to: Is eating meat barbaric? I say no. Barbaric is somewhat relative and something barbaric to someone isn't always to someone else. I think it's okay to eat everything with my hands, and it disgusts everyone I know. To the current debate that seems to be that do we treat animals nowadays humanely? For the most part no. I live in a pretty rural part of the American Southwest and all the people I know who own livestock treat the animals with a great amount of respect and the animals are all happy and healthy. Unfortunate it seems that people like that are a small minority. Most of the meat that's eaten at McDs, BK, KFC, etc. come from gigantic farms where animals are turned out like clockwork and treated more like property and profit than as breathing, living things. I have considered going vegetarian a few times but I don't because I don't see eating other animals as a horrible thing if they live good lives (and I buy all my meat locally, and know a few of the ranchers and butchers, and they're some of the kindest people I know). I also really enjoy the flavor of meat. If that makes me a "savage" then so be it. I know several "savages" (Hopis), and their closer to the earth and animals than anyone I've ever seen. I respect vegans and vegetarians as long they respect me. I hate it when people shovel their beliefs down my throat and tell me what I should be doing so it suits their world better. gj to the op for trying to be neutral as they could in this thread. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1126 Joined: 17 Jun 2008 |
I'm by no means rich and go to the local public high school, which has been rated excellent for 7 straight years I believe. And I take a standard vitamin, that's all I need.
The point? Being a vegetarian doesn't help or hurt your intelligence.
It was a collective statement applying to the entire human race and by "higher" it had more to do with morals, not being "batter". I don't think I'm "better" because I'm a vegetarian.
A few months now, and I really haven't read anything. I've been using my brain and the occasional Wikipedia quote for this thread. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 464 Joined: 24 Mar 2008  |
I like it, kind of a kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out idea. But that idea is sort of harsh, in a world that is not prepared for the type of lifestyle change removing meat consumption entails, suggesting that they (these unprepared people) do it anyway is almost as feral as eating the meat. I will agree with you that a person can maintain multiple priorities for grander change, but every priority that is added the harder it is to meet all of them. I am not sure there are enough people in the world that are capable of it. For me, changing my career and my diet so I can lose weight (I have even considered going the vegetarian route to those ends) has left me in a spot where I just don't have the resources to do too much else. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 223 Joined: 10 Sep 2008 | I pose this question to you, why do animals deserve rights? Can you give me one good reason without relating it to people. (ex. that's what they said about blacks, indians, japenese, etc.) Animals don't have rights because no animal is intellegent enough to objectively notice it's surrondings, cows don't ask "why aren't there any old cows round this here meat plant?" because it's not survival that motivates them but the passing of genetic material, If cows were capable of thinking as an individual or creating it'd be a different story but they can't. They're raised to be eaten, if not for the fact that they're tasty most cows wouldn't exist in the first place. Have you ever seen a wild cow? EDIT: Grammar and spelling |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1126 Joined: 17 Jun 2008 | I'm sorry guys. I'm trying to keep up with responses, I really am. Please bare with me as it takes a while to sift through everything and do other things.
Well it would happen gradually in real life, so the population of cows would have already went down dramatically and the economy would be adjusting.
That's just a disagreement that we'll never get past then. And I'm not sure if I would call what I want equality for animals, but a better position then what it is today. |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 874 Joined: 14 Dec 2007 |
As far as making everyone a vegetarian? Simple: Don't. Like I said, go to far one way or the other and everything goes to shit. Just let people continue to do what they're doing now. Learn about your own beliefs incase somebody asks you about them. Answer. Educate. But don't try to force others to follow your path, at least not on this issue. It's the same as religion, saying "I don't eat meat, I don't like the way it tastes/how the treat the animals/*insert reason here* is fine, saying "only barbarians and assholes eat meat and you're all going to HELL!" is not. |
Paperboy  Posts: 20 Joined: 22 Sep 2008 | No, because eating meat is a natural part of being human, and not eating meat won't stop animals from being killed by people who eat meat. It's just like how people buying hybrid cars won't kill the oil industry, the meat industry is just too big and it's a necessity. So you might as well just eat meat and get over it. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1126 Joined: 17 Jun 2008 |
Well equal consideration of interests is based on a prescription, not a description. It's a moral thing rather than an assertion of fact. If men were one day found not to be as smart as women or vice versa, there would still be equal consideration of interests. So intelligence is a non-factor when it comes to this issue. The good of one is no more important than the good of any other from the point of view of the Universe. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 122 Joined: 9 Oct 2008 | Firstly: This thread is both moronic and sickening. A THIRD and more of the world's population live in poverty, and we, the rich and priveliged of the world are debating how we treat our food?!?!? A lot of people don't have food! Human rights have a long way to come before we focus on animal rights. Secondly: We aren't about to stop eating meat as a human race. We can't sustain it, and we don't need to. We have a massive meat industry, responsible for hundreds of thousands of jobs, we have spinoff industries of the meat industry with thousands of jobs, (think fast food/delis, etc) and as far as we know, it's healthy and good for our bodies to eat meat. So why stop? Thirdly: There are standards in the meat industry to combat abuse, and the standards are getting better in developed countries. Developing countries need a little leeway to actually establish a proper meat industry, before working on animal rights. Fourth: Why should we care about how animals are treated? THey are alive for the sole purpose of food, if we didn't need them FOR FOOD. They wouldn't be alive. Animals naturally die in much more gruesome ways than we kill them. Animals are often treated BETTER in captivity, than they would be in the wild. (breeding techniques, sickness techniques, humane killing etc) PETA is BULLSHIT! |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 472 Joined: 4 Dec 2007 |
Isn't being "higher" subjective? And I'd like to agree, you calling vegetarianism "higher" than other diets is a bit self-righteous. Maybe you have a different opinion about food, don't say that your opinion is better. I think RTS games suck, but I don't go think there's anything wrong with a person playing RTS games. Also, notice "Mostly jest" out to the side of that comment about plants being essential and all? I'm not living in any sort of fantasy world, trust me. And you say that we could not eat more plants and grow more, so the planet can survive. That can easily be made into "eat more animals and let the animals make more of themselves, so the planet can survive." What makes the difference between animals and plants to you? Imagine that you were unable to speak, and you were always stuck with your arms at your sides and you could not speak. All you could do was lean in a direction of your choosing, and you survive off the water in the ground alone. You are effectively a plant. Now say a big animal comes around with a big machine, slashes you off at the knees and gobbles you up. Does that sound 'right' to you? Probably not. But that's basically what happens to plants, isn't it? And if anything, plants are more important. Take out every animal in the world; now you've got lots of plants that can sustain their species forever (excepting carnivorous plants, like fly-traps and such). Take out all the plants and everything dies. |
Paperboy Posts: 34 Joined: 1 Jul 2008 |
Interesting question, I have one for you If you dont want to hear an answer from an individual with agriculture experience then dont read. If you want to know whats really going on, then continue. Eating normal meat in the normal way is not barbaric, as most animal rights people enjoy stating, humans are animals.
You cannot chronically mistreat animals and stay in business They can be mistreated on occasion and not suffer overly, but it cant be systematic. The key is that "abuse" is defined by the animal. Poke them with a stick? bah, forgotten in 5 seconds. Pen them up, dont mean nothing. Those little videos your friends show you are not standard procedure, they are accidents, mistakes. All processes have mistakes, including human medical procedures.
Anybody with proper knowledge will tell you that while all nutrients are available from non-meat sources, they are not available in a form we can readily use. Health is a personal choice, and while a diet as heavy in meat as the modern worlds is may not be healthy, I dont think a totally meat free diet would be healthy either. Ultimately, cattle are not worth worrying about, they have been bred throughout the centuries to be meat factories, and thats what they are. I do agree that inhumane treatment of animals for no reason* should be avoided, and in general it is illegal. *animal testing to prevent human health problems is a good reason Finally, any veghead out there who wants to be taken seriously (and wants to learn something firsthand instead of from propaganda) should go work for an old cattle farmer on the weekends, they tend to enjoy talking and teach a great deal as they work. |
Brains are extremely energy intesive, a large and complex brain like ours requires so much nourishment that the only way we could've sustained it was by including foods rich in energy that required little digestive processing (ie meat).
I'm pretty sure if a study was conducted it would find that vegitarians tend to have less thought intensive jobs and pasttimes because of this (no offense Shivari, that's just a theory based on scientific observation and evidence).
A point was made about carnivores not being ultra-intelligent space-farers, and the counter was that they're solitary. That's true, our technology was developed by our society. Not our wandering hunters.