Shivari:

2. Humans are OMNIVORES. We eat meat because our bodies CAN digest meat, hence our canine teeth and binocular vision.

True, that means we can give up meat and still survive with no repercussions.

Aside from the millions of jobs that depend on the animal product industry as well as jobs linked to manufacturing of goods that use animal products,the food industry would take a massive hit as well. It'd be awful.

Decoy Doctorpus:

Shivari:

2. Humans are OMNIVORES. We eat meat because our bodies CAN digest meat, hence our canine teeth and binocular vision.

True, that means we can give up meat and still survive with no repercussions.

Aside from the millions of jobs that depend on the animal product industry as well as jobs linked to manufacturing of goods that use animal products,the food industry would take a massive hit as well. It'd be awful.

Also this.

Which reminds me of a question I tend to ask a lot of vegetarians/vegans who I meet. So this will be directed toward any vegetarians.

Think well before you answer this. Do you own anything made of leather or suede? Cause guess what...those products are made from cows.

How about any wool sweaters? I know what you're saying "They don't kill sheep to get the wool, just shave them and let them grow the wool back." But this is not often the case. A lot of times the wool is taken from the sheep just before it's slaughtered to become food, and other times the actual shaving of the sheep involves what some would describe as abuse by the farmer.

How about anything with fur on it? More dead animals. Lucky rabbit foot? I wonder where that came from.

How about this. Do you own a pet? Some see that as the enslavement of animals. Animal cruelty stretches a hell of a lot further than eating meat.

Jobz:
Why not take it? How about because my body needs protein and I don't want to take supplements everyday and don't like the taste of beans (A minor source of protein)?

I take vitamins, but they don't have protein in them. Soy, nuts, beans, etc. get me by on protein just fine.

What bothers me is when people do it and say it's because they want to save the animals, because those animals you claim to be saving are getting slaughtered for the rest of us anyway. So it's not making a damn bit of difference.

And? It's the fact that we're doing something that makes the difference to us. And the less people that eat meat, the less meat they produce. One person has no effect, but a lot of people do.

Jobz:
Which reminds me of a question I tend to ask a lot of vegetarians/vegans who I meet. So this will be directed toward any vegetarians.

Think well before you answer this. Do you own anything made of leather or suede? Cause guess what...those products are made from cows.

How about any wool sweaters? I know what you're saying "They don't kill sheep to get the wool, just shave them and let them grow the wool back." But this is not often the case. A lot of times the wool is taken from the sheep just before it's slaughtered to become food, and other times the actual shaving of the sheep involves what some would describe as abuse by the farmer.

How about anything with fur on it? More dead animals. Lucky rabbit foot? I wonder where that came from.

How about this. Do you own a pet? Some see that as the enslavement of animals. Animal cruelty stretches a hell of a lot further than eating meat.

I don't own any of that stuff, and no vegans would own any of that stuff either. A vegetarian might though.

And my dog is treated like a princess, I think she's pretty happy.

I like vegetarians, but I couldn't eat a whole one.

Funny...I have personally met so called 'vegans' who were wearing leather belts. I also once met a 'vegan' wearing what appeared to be alligator skin shoes. Upon asking if that's what they were they replied "No, they're snakes."

I'm not saying all vegans are like this. Just the wannabe ones. The ones who do it because they think it makes them cool. You know, most of them.

Jobz:
Funny...I have personally met so called 'vegans' who were wearing leather belts. I also once met a 'vegan' wearing what appeared to be alligator skin shoes. Upon asking if that's what they were they replied "No, they're snakes."

I'm not saying all vegans are like this. Just the wannabe ones. The ones who do it because they think it makes them cool. You know, most of them.

They're not vegans then, they're vegetarians that are misinformed about what a vegan is.

I'm learning about human nutrition right now, and from what I've learned and what I've had to research, I'd say cutting out an entire food group isn't the healthiest thing for people. Also, meats are "complete" in the sense that they have all 20 amino acids in them, whereas you need to mix certain other foods that are "incomplete" to get your daily value of amino acids. Speaking on supplements, the artificial products in supplements aren't as good for you because they are harder for your body to absorb and aren't the same as the natural when in your bloodstream. So, essentially, the healthiest possible daily diet is one that is balanced to include all of the designated food groups, a good amount of water, and a calorie intake based on energy expenditure.

Shivari:

Jobz:
Funny...I have personally met so called 'vegans' who were wearing leather belts. I also once met a 'vegan' wearing what appeared to be alligator skin shoes. Upon asking if that's what they were they replied "No, they're snakes."

I'm not saying all vegans are like this. Just the wannabe ones. The ones who do it because they think it makes them cool. You know, most of them.

They're not vegans then, they're vegetarians that are misinformed about what a vegan is.

Actually they seemed quite sure what a vegan was "Someone who refuses to eat meat or any other animal product, and is against the killing of animals for clothing or any other purpose."

That's pretty much how the one with the leather belt explained it to me. I was desperately trying not to laugh when he said this, it would have been rude.

Stringytank:
I'm learning about human nutrition right now, and from what I've learned and what I've had to research, I'd say cutting out an entire food group isn't the healthiest thing for people. Also, meats are "complete" in the sense that they have all 20 amino acids in them, whereas you need to mix certain other foods that are "incomplete" to get your daily value of amino acids.

Or you could just get a fair amount of soy in your diet.

Speaking on supplements, the artificial products in supplements aren't as good for you because they are harder for your body to absorb and aren't the same as the natural when in your bloodstream.

That's why it's called a supplement. It's there to fill in little gaps. It never hurts to take them.

It is only meats that are "complete". Soy is "incomplete"

Shivari:

Stringytank:
I'm learning about human nutrition right now, and from what I've learned and what I've had to research, I'd say cutting out an entire food group isn't the healthiest thing for people. Also, meats are "complete" in the sense that they have all 20 amino acids in them, whereas you need to mix certain other foods that are "incomplete" to get your daily value of amino acids.

Or you could just get a fair amount of soy in your diet.

Speaking on supplements, the artificial products in supplements aren't as good for you because they are harder for your body to absorb and aren't the same as the natural when in your bloodstream.

That's why it's called a supplement. It's there to fill in little gaps. It never hurts to take them.

Uh, you didn't respond to his points. You just said something somewhat related.

of course, its the food chain as natural as it gets dumb ass vegans, your body cannot survive WELL without certain amino acids in meat anyways.

Stringytank:
Soy contains higher amounts of estrogen, no offense, but no thank you.

We covered this earlier in the thread. They're phytoestrogens, which contain something similar to estrogen, but it isn't estrogen and it doesn't have the same effects. It's not going to turn you gay or anything, don't worry.

Also, if you don't want any phytoextrogens, then say goodbye to wheat, apples, carrots, beer, berries, beans, etc. It's such a weak argument that it would hurt people.

Please respond to some of the more "valid" points then.(i.e. amino acids and balanced diet)

Stringytank:
Also, it is only meats that are "complete". Soy is "incomplete"

"Soy protein is a complete source of protein containing adequate quantities of all 9 essential amino acids which are necessary for the building and maintenance of human body tissues"

http://faq.aces.uiuc.edu/faq.pdl?project_id=5&faq_id=74

Eldritch Warlord:
Uh, you didn't respond to his points. You just said something somewhat related.

They were both related. Soy is a complete source of protein and supplements aren't meant to be your only source of nutrients.

Stringytank:
Please respond to some of my more "valid" points and not the ones I've just heard about. ( i.e. amino acids, balanced diet)

You edited that in after I had started typing.

And if you knew you were wrong on the first point, why'd you say it?

Shivari:

Stringytank:
Also, it is only meats that are "complete". Soy is "incomplete"

"Soy protein is a complete source of protein containing adequate quantities of all 9 essential amino acids which are necessary for the building and maintenance of human body tissues"

http://faq.aces.uiuc.edu/faq.pdl?project_id=5&faq_id=74

Eldritch Warlord:
[quote=Shivari post=18.73537.809121]

[quote=Stringytank post=18.73537.809108]Uh, you didn't respond to his points. You just said something somewhat related.

They were both related. Soy is s complete source of protein and supplements aren't meant to be your only source of nutrients.

That's better.

Eldritch Warlord:
That's better.

That's what I was trying to say.

I guess I was being vague.

The thing with Soy though Shivari is that it doesn't taste nice, whereas bacon does.

"Soy protein is a complete source of protein containing adequate quantities of all 9 essential amino acids which are necessary for the building and maintenance of human body tissues"

While only 9 of the 20 are essential, your body still has uses for the other 11. Please understand I'm not saying being a vegetarian / vegan is unhealthy, I'm just saying that it's not the healthiest choice given how the human body operates.

[Edited Portion] I didn't come in here to argue, please don't regard me as hostile or you're no better than the "barbarians" you seek to disgrace.

TheGhostOfSin:
The thing with Soy though Shivari is that it doesn't taste nice, whereas bacon does.

Soy products taste just fine to me. Maybe not the milk so much, but I found soy burgers to taste good.

Shivari:

Stringytank:
Also, it is only meats that are "complete". Soy is "incomplete"

"Soy protein is a complete source of protein containing adequate quantities of all 9 essential amino acids which are necessary for the building and maintenance of human body tissues"

http://faq.aces.uiuc.edu/faq.pdl?project_id=5&faq_id=74

Eldritch Warlord:
Uh, you didn't respond to his points. You just said something somewhat related.

They were both related. Soy is a complete source of protein and supplements aren't meant to be your only source of nutrients.

Stringytank:
Please respond to some of my more "valid" points and not the ones I've just heard about. ( i.e. amino acids, balanced diet)

You edited that in after I had started typing.

And if you knew you were wrong on the first point, why'd you say it?

I changed it because I read your response and hadn't gone through the 20-odd pages of posts and seen that soy had already been discussed.

Shivari:

TheGhostOfSin:
The thing with Soy though Shivari is that it doesn't taste nice, whereas bacon does.

Soy products taste just fine to me. Maybe not the milk so much, but I found soy burgers to taste good.

Really? Have you ever tried Chocolate Silk? It's a wonderful soy milk that tastes quite nice, and I highly recommend it.

That said, I still support omnivorism in humanity.

jamanticus:

Shivari:

TheGhostOfSin:
The thing with Soy though Shivari is that it doesn't taste nice, whereas bacon does.

Soy products taste just fine to me. Maybe not the milk so much, but I found soy burgers to taste good.

Really? Have you ever tried Chocolate Silk? It's a wonderful soy milk that tastes quite nice, and I highly recommend it.

That said, I still support omnivorism in humanity.

I haven't tried it, I only had the regular as a kid. I'll have to check that out.

who drinks soy milk when rice milk is delicious

And tofu can be very good too. Chinese place near me makes these tofu wrapped portobellos that i could kill for right now.

Shivari:

TheGhostOfSin:
The thing with Soy though Shivari is that it doesn't taste nice, whereas bacon does.

Soy products taste just fine to me. Maybe not the milk so much, but I found soy burgers to taste good.

I've tried soy burgers they made me violently ill, I had to have my stomach pumped.
Also if I were given the choice I would rather eat earwax than that stuff again.

TheGhostOfSin:

Shivari:

TheGhostOfSin:
The thing with Soy though Shivari is that it doesn't taste nice, whereas bacon does.

Soy products taste just fine to me. Maybe not the milk so much, but I found soy burgers to taste good.

I've tried soy burgers they made me violently ill, I had to have my stomach pumped.
Also if I were given the choice I would rather eat earwax than that stuff again.

Well that changes things then. I was under the impression that your only problem was the taste.

I remember reading an article describing some silly people eating excessive amounts of tofu for a whole year or some other amazingly long amount of time and enjoying the benefits of... cancer.

Basically, what I could glean from the article was: Eat tofu with vegetables, rice/pasta/noodles and some bread in your diet and you should be fine... as long as the tofu makes up no more than 20-25 percent of your diet.

Also, I would like to say that the meat industry is so big that I feel no guilt over buying an already dead piece of animal. I didn't kill it, I didn't request it dead. It was there in the supermarket I frequent, just laying around with a price tag attached to it, so I bought it and I had a meal.

Shivari:

Well that changes things then. I was under the impression that your only problem was the taste.

Even if it was, not liking the taste of something is still a reason to not eat it.

If one day it was proved that we could live a long, healthy life by only having one meal in your life and just living off your own waste, would you?
Very few things get killed so wouldn't that be an improvement?

I dont think eating meat is babaric. It will always stay the same with me that I will have my meat with a side dish of vegies. its human nature, if cows werent eaten they would just be wasting space so god probably created them for a reason to keep us alive and healthy

I dont mind vegetariaans only the ones that scream at you MEAT IS MUR-DER in Buger King when your eating you quad-stacker.

Booze Zombie:
I remember reading an article describing some silly people eating excessive amounts of tofu for a whole year or some other amazingly long amount of time and enjoying the benefits of... cancer.

Basically, what I could glean from the article was: Eat tofu with vegetables, rice/pasta/noodles and some bread in your diet and you should be fine... as long as the tofu makes up no more than 20-25 percent of your diet.

And if you ate excessive amounts of meat you wouldn't have a pretty result either. Eating too much of anything is bad.

TheGhostOfSin:
If one day it was proved that we could live a long, healthy life by only having one meal in your life and just living off your own waste, would you?
Very few things get killed so wouldn't that be an improvement?

It would never happen, but if it did, probably not. But all of the arguments on taste in this thread have been "I really love bacon", not "I really hate anything that isn't bacon." They could still get by just fine on a vegetarian diet.

Meat is murder... in Burger King. Seriously, that stuff... you can feel it killing you. Nasty.

Okay, it's half four in the morning and I'm half brain dead from reading all 24 pages of this in one sitting so I apologise in advance if what I'm about to say comes out incoherent.

I don't eat a lot of meat myself, simply because I don't like the taste, I don't object to other people eating meat though (even though I find the argument that bacon tastes good mystifying... tastes horrible to me). So please the following points as food for thought rather than espousing any particular view.

Lots of people have pointed to their canine teeth as evidence that they should eat meat, but pandas have canine teeth and only eat bamboo... they have canine teeth because they originally evolved as omnivores, and then evolved some more to become vegetarian... so changing diet is clearly natural too... and yes pandas aren't doing so well in the species survival stakes but then they're a rather extreme form of vegetarian that relies on a single plant, plus other factors that aren't to do with their diet.

It always puzzles me why (moral) vegetarians will eat dairy products, but not meat from the same species, milk only comes from female cattle, who have to give birth in order to produce it, as far as I know those births are about equal number of female and male offspring, so what is this type of