Now that you have milked out 1000 of the things, can you lay this to rest?

Before we get another 'Meat is delicious' post from someone who did not feel the need to read even the first page?

Congratulations on defending a 6% opinion for 1,000 posts, Shivari. That took some guts. I'm used to having the 6% opinion, but I give up way earlier.

Eggo, grow a pair, dude. You're a highly intelligent university student studying advanced scientific subjects - that means you're way too old to complain that a high school girl snubbed you. For what it's worth, I think you made some very good points. Maybe that's why she ignored you - when you're out-numbered that badly, you have to look for the weaker members of the herd.

Outa here.

Amnestic:

TheGhostOfSin:
Maybe if you didn't have a lolcat as your avatar people would take you more seriously.
*Eggo

Judging people by their avatar is hardly a proper way to conduct a debate now, is it? If someone brings up relevant and good points, it shouldn't matter their background, they're still relevant and good points whoever makes them.

It was a joke, I haven't come across any posts by him, so I wouldn't really know whether on his points were even usefull.
Although I dont really look at avatars and names unless I refer to, or quote them.

werepossum:
Maybe that's why she ignored you - when you're out-numbered that badly, you have to look for the weaker members of the herd.

He knows why I ignored him, I PMd him. We don't need to make it public.

And yes, I'm done with this thread. If you have any questions about my stance, it's somewhere in here.

Goodbye.

Just to improve my off-to-on-topic ratio, I'll post something kind of relevant. For people using instinct and the standard because that's the way it's meant to be answers, why? I mean, everything you say is technically true, we are animals, carnivores, it is our instinct to eat those beneath us. But do you really WANT to live as a slave to your evolutionary imperative? With intelligence and education comes the ability to resist your nature according to your beliefs, all you need is the will. If you've forgotten, I eat meat, but I do it with the mental awareness that doing that kills animals. I don't hide behind instinct. I would slaughter my own food if I had too. I mean, essentially, giving in to instinct completely is essentially the definition of barbarism, right?

Shivari:

Eldritch Warlord:

Shivari:

I covered why I said that statement like 10 posts before yours.

You'd like to force people to follow your moral code. Seems vaguely barbaric doesn't it?

I said that's in my perfect little world. I know not everyone is going to agree with me and I don't expect them to.

Your post should have been qualified by itself and not ammended later, it appears as though you are simply trying to cover up a slip and maintain the "moral high ground."

And perfect little world or not you have still expressed a desire to exert dominance over people and force them to believe as you do, considering that there are several posts from you that either claim humans do not dominate animals or state that dominance doesn't give us the right to force them to do what we want them to do this seems very hypocritical.

Maybe it's time for you to stop being as stubborn as a 3-meter-diameter titanium pole bored into bedrock and concede that there is no wrong in consuming animal flesh, or at least that calling people barbarians is no way to found a convincing argument.

Actually I'd be satisfied if you admitted to calling me and other fleshmongers (a free word to insult us with!) barbarians.

Ultrajoe:
Now that you have milked out 1000 of the things, can you lay this to rest?

Before we get another 'Meat is delicious' post from someone who did not feel the need to read even the first page?

I feel as if that was directed at me.

If so, if prepared meat isn't delicious, then what is it, a pillow?

And I have read the first page.

Eldritch Warlord:
Maybe it's time for you to stop being as stubborn as a 3-meter-diameter titanium pole bored into bedrock and concede that there is no wrong in consuming animal flesh, or at least that calling people barbarians is no way to found a convincing argument.

Please, it sounds like you're just trying to start a conflict. The debate is over, goodbye.

Shivari:

Eldritch Warlord:
Maybe it's time for you to stop being as stubborn as a 3-meter-diameter titanium pole bored into bedrock and concede that there is no wrong in consuming animal flesh, or at least that calling people barbarians is no way to found a convincing argument.

Please, it sounds like you're just trying to start a conflict. The debate is over, goodbye.

I'm asking you to stop the argument, questioning people's morality is an absolutely certain way to start a conflict.

Eldritch Warlord:

Shivari:

Eldritch Warlord:
Maybe it's time for you to stop being as stubborn as a 3-meter-diameter titanium pole bored into bedrock and concede that there is no wrong in consuming animal flesh, or at least that calling people barbarians is no way to found a convincing argument.

Please, it sounds like you're just trying to start a conflict. The debate is over, goodbye.

I'm asking you to stop the argument, questioning people's morality is an absolutely certain way to start a conflict.

It does people good to be questioned every once in a while. I'm not trying to change anyone, I just want people to think about it for a second before they go on with their ways.

Shivari:

It does people good to be questioned every once in a while. I'm not trying to change anyone, I just want people to think about it for a second before they go on with their ways.

If that's the case you should have spent the extra 10 seconds thinking of a better wording than "Eating Meat, Is It Barbaric?"

Maybe: "Do we have the right to kill animals for sustenance now that we have alternatives?"

Shivari:
SNIP
It does people good to be questioned every once in a while. I'm not trying to change anyone, I just want people to think about it for a second before they go on with their ways.

Very true. Sometimes you have to fight a battle that you know you're going to lose.

And no one should let the majority set his or her own morality. Although it's important to investigate why you're in the 6% and not the 94%, the numbers themselves don't decide right and wrong; G-d does.

EDIT: NO! No more thinking, no more re-phrasing, no more debate - it's over. Thy risketh the wrath of Ultrajoe. If the 6% isn't nursing a grudge over hurt feelings, neither should the 94%.

Shivari:

Eldritch Warlord:
Maybe it's time for you to stop being as stubborn as a 3-meter-diameter titanium pole bored into bedrock and concede that there is no wrong in consuming animal flesh, or at least that calling people barbarians is no way to found a convincing argument.

Please, it sounds like you're just trying to start a conflict. The debate is over, goodbye.

Wait, you'll endure and ignore for 1000 posts but now you've had your full nobody else is allowed to?

And if you want it to end, you can request to have this locked.

I enjoy meat, and I don't think it is barbaric at all; however, we really ought to treat the animals we breed to eat a bit better than we do now.

Meat, and its products provide plenty of essential amino acids, fats and proteins, whereas Vegetarians need to micromanage their food intake in order to get the same nutritional value. With a good meal with some meat, and veggies, I know I can go for half a day without needing to eat again.

Personally, I don't care if someone is a vegetarian or not because that's their business. I've even done the 'vegetarian thing' , and it wasn't so bad; I actually learned some great dishes from other vegetarians, and new foods, which I have since then incorporated with my meat dishes.

Shivari:

Well, if you think animals being killed is a bad thing, and that it being a bad thing absolutely overrides all other considerations in judging whether or not animals should be killed, shouldn't you?

Have you not listened to my exceptions I've mentioned?

Yeah, but they're not really exceptions, or they are exceptions that only lead to more issues.

Shivari:

It does people good to be questioned every once in a while. I'm not trying to change anyone, I just want people to think about it for a second before they go on with their ways.

That's why I was making the comments I was--not sure you've thought about the full implications of your position. I think there's a strong argument to be made for not killing animals to eat them, but...I don't feel like you ever really made it.

I voted yes, and I agree with xitel (it may be barbaric, but it's natural). I think of the animal I'm eating too, just to remind myself that it was once a living being and gave it's life (although not willingly I'm sure) to sustain mine. If humans were lower on the food chain and I was eaten for food, well "that's the way 'o' the road bubs"

Hold on just a second. This debate really made me think. Infact I just had to join. At first I was like, it wasn't wrong in any way to eat meat. But over this thread and points made it really learned some important stuff. In fact, I have changed my opinion. It really happened near the end.

Why are you putting her down based on her belifs? I put my belifs on the line everyday, I am respected for that. You don't have to attack her based on it. Doesn't that it self make you alittle barbaric? Anyways,
I eat large sums of meat each day, BUT I need the meat for my weightlifting lifestyle. I also take supplements with it. So what's your excuss for killing the extra cows and being over weight?

Ya you don't like it when I make it personal do ya? I think I've made my point.

Animals are not people, until we have secured a high quality of life for every human being talking about animals like this is an exercise for spoiled products of our high quality of life.

So no, I don't think eating meat is barbaric.

Also, on the same subject, human beings are omnivores and meant to eat meat. Doing otherwise is just denying your nature.

Cheeze_Pavilion:

Shivari:

Well, if you think animals being killed is a bad thing, and that it being a bad thing absolutely overrides all other considerations in judging whether or not animals should be killed, shouldn't you?

Have you not listened to my exceptions I've mentioned?

Yeah, but they're not really exceptions, or they are exceptions that only lead to more issues.

If people don't have access to alternatives or are in a survival situation aren't exceptions?

AlphaLion:
Hold on just a second. This debate really made me think. Infact I just had to join. At first I was like, it wasn't wrong in any way to eat meat. But over this thread and points made it really learned some important stuff. In fact, I have changed my opinion. It really happened near the end.

I'm glad this thread had that effect on you, that makes it all worthwhile.

Why are you putting her down based on her belifs? I put my belifs on the line everyday, I am respected for that. You don't have to attack her based on it. Doesn't that it self make you alittle barbaric?

Exactly right.

I'm not a biologist, nor am I a chemist, but I do not think the consumpion of meat is barbaric.

In fact, it is the act of us here, debating the point, that removes it from being barbaric. It is a wonder we are able to wake up and make a choice every day as to whether or not eat meat today. It proves that we have evolved past the stage where we are simply hunters or gatherers eating what we can to survive, into a phase of the human life cycle where we can obtain substenance from whichever food we like, and get that food item whenever we want.

What a wonerous time we live in where refusing to eat meat is fine, but at the same time eating nothing but (while having adverse health affects) is equally tollerable. In my eyes, the removal of that choice, which so boldly divides the humans from the animals, is nothing but a regression of mindset, and barbaric.

to that six percent: amazing job holding out for 30 pages of arguments!

Andrew Ryan would like to remind us that we all make choices, but, in the end, our choices make us.

cookyt:
I'm not a biologist, nor am I a chemist, but I do not think the consumpion of meat is barbaric.

In fact, it is the act of us here, debating the point, that removes it from being barbaric. It is a wonder we are able to wake up and make a choice every day as to whether or not eat meat today. It proves that we have evolved past the stage where we are simply hunters or gatherers eating what we can to survive, into a phase of the human life cycle where we can obtain substenance from whichever food we like, and get that food item whenever we want.

What a wonerous time we live in where refusing to eat meat is fine, but at the same time eating nothing but (while having adverse health affects) is equally tollerable. In my eyes, the removal of that choice, which so boldly divides the humans from the animals, is nothing but a regression of mindset, and barbaric.

to that six percent: amazing job holding out for 30 pages of arguments!

Andrew Ryan would like to remind us that we all make choices, but, in the end, our choices make us.

Hey! It's 6.2%! Gosh, get it right =P But i'm not ashamed of that. Just means I am open to what seems right to me

[quote=Eggo post=18.73537.812739
Extremely well said!
[/quote]

Thank you! I've been reading a few of the posts on this fourm, and it made me more so about the human nature, and progression in generall, than it did about the consumption of meat for pleasure.

It also keeps me up while i drag along on my english liturature paper.

People need to get off the girls tits for a fucking second. Her position was clarified some time ago, centering it around emotion("feeling" and "emotion" tend to be kind of confusing subjects) to anyone who truly wanted know and work towards an understanding. Even if you dont like or respect vegetarians you dont need to act like a fucking BARBARIAN about it.

And you, Eggo, any respect I might have had for you went out the door some time ago. You may know your shool work but you have a whole hell of a lot to learn about tact. Also you didnt continue the arguement on fair grounds once it was clarified that she was basing her views on emotion. Its was one thing to discuss its another to needle people.

stfu and gtfo

report away jerks

hax is serious buisness

END OF LINE

killerap85:
People need to get off the girls tits for a fucking second. Her position was clarified some time ago, centering it around emotion("feeling" and "emotion" tend to be kind of confusing subjects) to anyone who truly wanted know and work towards an understanding. Even if you dont like or respect vegetarians you dont need to act like a fucking BARBARIAN about it.

And you, Eggo, any respect I might have had for you went out the door some time ago. You may know your shool work but you have a whole hell of a lot to learn about tact. Also you didnt continue the arguement on fair grounds once it was clarified that she was basing her views on emotion. Its was one thing to discuss its another to needle people.

stfu and gtfo

report away jerks

END OF LINE

Please, read some more of the thread before you spit at us will you? We might rape and pillage your town for those words.

Ive read the digression and you suck my balls while your raping and pillaging.

Shivari:

Cheeze_Pavilion:

Shivari:

Well, if you think animals being killed is a bad thing, and that it being a bad thing absolutely overrides all other considerations in judging whether or not animals should be killed, shouldn't you?

Have you not listened to my exceptions I've mentioned?

Yeah, but they're not really exceptions, or they are exceptions that only lead to more issues.

If people don't have access to alternatives or are in a survival situation aren't exceptions?

Those exceptions open up issues like why we should continue to breed pets, though. Those exceptions are in conflict with you saying that you don't believe we should reduce the number of carnivore animals.

If getting killed for food is something that animals have a right to be free from, then why shouldn't you be looking to reduce the number of carnivore animals to as low a level as ecologically possible?

In other words, let's say you are making the choice as to whether to breed your dog. Shouldn't the fact that by bringing new carnivores into the world you're increasing the number of animals that have to raised for food enter into that decision, and make it morally wrong to bring new dogs into the world?

EDIT: in other words, aren't you taking advantage of the necessity exception in order to enjoy the luxury of a pet?

I'm not trying to pick on you--it's just that for me, one of the reasons I don't consider eating meat barbaric is that all the arguments for it come up short because to me, if you're really committed to animal rights, you should be looking to help them exercise those rights against anything infringing on them, be it man, beast, natural disaster, etc.

cookyt:
I'm not a biologist, nor am I a chemist, but I do not think the consumpion of meat is barbaric.

In fact, it is the act of us here, debating the point, that removes it from being barbaric.

...

In my eyes, the removal of that choice, which so boldly divides the humans from the animals, is nothing but a regression of mindset, and barbaric.

to that six percent: amazing job holding out for 30 pages of arguments!

Andrew Ryan would like to remind us that we all make choices, but, in the end, our choices make us.

Actually, that ideology of choice putting us beyond good and evil is a lot more like Nietzsche than Rand.

killerap85:
Ive read the digression and you suck my balls while your raping and pillaging.

I bow before your superior wit and mastery of the english language and it's potential.

I don't think it's barbaric... After all we, as humans, are omnivourus, and our body is prepared for almost any kind of food.

Cheeze_Pavilion:

Actually, that ideology of choice putting us beyond good and evil is a lot more like Nietzsche than Rand.

Are you refrencing the quote from Bioshock at the end? I wouldn't know who it's actually from, really. Anyway, yes your right, it does support Nietzsche's ideas more, but that does not mean I'm against individuality; far from it.

But we're starting to drift from the topic at hand now.