After playing Force Unleashed, I was highly disappointed. George Lucas obviously did not think to swap Clone Wars with Forced Unleashed. If Forced Unleashed turned into Star Wars episode 3.5, then it would have made more money in the box office then Clone Wars. Some of you might already know about the story line to Clone Wars after watching the mini series a few years ago. The last thing we need is worrying about the gap between episode 2 and 3.

Unfortunately, the man hasn't had it for a good long time.

I haven't played the game, but I did read TFU book. It was horrible. Based on the book, I see no reason to assume Clone Wars would have been any worse than a Force Unleashed movie. Anything that George personally works with people on ends up being horrible. Thank goodness for the Tartakovsky Clone Wars cartoon, which is at least entertaining. In fact, I'm completely stunned by anyone who claims the Force Unleashed story is good. How can it be? The shallow stock characters that are now typical to Lucas' work are still ever-present. There's Shallow Love Interest Girl (tm), Young Emo Kid Who Is Totally Bad (tm), Mentor Figure (tm), Backstabbing Traitor (tm) and Evil Overlord (tm.)

Maybe it's just because Lucas hates the expanded universe so much, but why is Vader suddenly a master of subtle character manipulation? I mean, the whole big conflict that arose in Shadow of the Empire between Vader and Xizor was because Vader was an utter incompetent at that sort of crafty backstabbing. And there's nothing in the original trilogy or the prequels to suggest he was EVER good at manipulating people. So did he just suddenly learn it in Force Unleashed, then decide to forget it?

The guys who made TFU made a list of a bunch of stuff they wanted to use (reguarding characters and canon) and sent it away to Mr Lucas. He replyed and approved most of the stuff and amde suggestions to better the rest.

Is it still his fault then?

I would like to form a committee of volunteers to join me in the NMSW movement. "No More Star Wars" is a movement aimed at keeping George Lucas from writing anything else that might further ruin the original trilogy. Basically, what we do is have two people at George Lucas' side for the rest of his natural life (we'd have to work in shifts). Whenever he gets near a keyboard or pen and paper, we break all his fingers. If he attempts to dictate more Star Wars, we break his jaw too. This may seem harsh, but whatever it takes to prevent another episode 2 is worth the sacrifice, on his part and on ours. Who's with me?

honestly if you don't like star wars STOP BUYING THE PRODUCT, don't go out and buy and then "be cool and original" and complain about how much Lucas sux

he can honestly do what he wants with the star wars universe because HE MADE IT. sure some other ppl wrote some stories but if he feels like changing stuff and disregarding what he created, it's his perogative

stuff like this happens in comics all the time, how many times has superman or spiderman or the xmen or the fantastic four or batman been retconed? lots and yet do you hear ppl complaining about how much Marvel or DC sux and how they are ruining everyting?

before you bring up how much Lucas has had an influence on pop culture, just one of those comics have had more than Star Wars can ever dream of

cleverlymadeup:

stuff like this happens in comics all the time, how many times has superman or spiderman or the xmen or the fantastic four or batman been retconed? lots and yet do you hear ppl complaining about how much Marvel or DC sux and how they are ruining everyting?

Yes, actually. Google "One More Day", "Final Crisis" or "Secret Invasion." Personally, I blame Straczynski entirely.

On topic, though, I don't think George Lucas has lost his touch... I just don't think he really "gets" that the series has grown beyond his singular control. It's not just about the movies anymore. There's an entire Expanded Universe, with games, books and comics all constantly adding to continuity.
For example: Did you know that Han Solo and Princess Leia went on to have a child (Jacen Solo) that became one of the most feared Sith Lords in the galaxy?

The thing of it is, while George Lucas is willing to stamp his seal of approval on all this Expanded Universe stuff that's actually decent, he doesn't really keep up with it. He doesn't get what the story has become, and therefore haphazardly makes changes wherever he sees fit.

Aside from that, I just don't think he's that great of a filmmaker overall. If you look at the original trilogy from a strictly cinematic point of view, the only thing they had going for them was that they were original. Up until then, we had never seen a space station the size of a moon blow up an entire planet. Fast forward to the present, and that sort of thing has become a mainstay. Lucas never got the memo. Hence, his stuff is seen as stale, tired and even outright awful.

His youthful innocence. When he made the first three Star Wars he was open minded and youthful of heart. How he is rich, old, and jaded. Now he is just after cash. So sad. :( I cry for the death of his innocence. "Money! Money changes everything....."

There was no "This Thread Inspired by Yahtzee Fanboyism" vote, so I voted yes as fully as I could. I do believe that someone else should step in. Of course, we would need someone who has all of the vision of young Luc...as, with the style of the day mixed savvily (its a word) with the originals, and FUCKING REWRITE THE DAMN THINGS!

....Have you seen the new south park?

cleverlymadeup:
honestly if you don't like star wars STOP BUYING THE PRODUCT, don't go out and buy and then "be cool and original" and complain about how much Lucas sux

he can honestly do what he wants with the star wars universe because HE MADE IT. sure some other ppl wrote some stories but if he feels like changing stuff and disregarding what he created, it's his perogative

stuff like this happens in comics all the time, how many times has superman or spiderman or the xmen or the fantastic four or batman been retconed? lots and yet do you hear ppl complaining about how much Marvel or DC sux and how they are ruining everyting?

before you bring up how much Lucas has had an influence on pop culture, just one of those comics have had more than Star Wars can ever dream of

I didn't buy it. I can't help it if I was young and innocent when the new movies came out, and failed to examine them from a cinematic standpoint. Also, it doesn't help that the rest of my family loves the new movies.

I think the only good thing about the original SW was that it took a bunch of fun ideas, crammed them all into a few movies and added some cool special effects (for the time.) I mean, hey, I still find the original movies fun. But from a critical perspective, they don't have much else going for them. Well, aside from nostalgia, anyway. I compare the original SW movies to the original Indiana Jones movies. Both have great characters, decent acting and a lot of really neat/fun stuff thrown in.

I don't think Lucas ever really "got" that about the series. In all his movie commentaries, he keeps trying to talk about plot progression, or how he always envisioned Evil Baddy #3 as a gradual result of Childhood Trauma #7. He calls Darth Vader a "tragic hero." What? Wander from SotC is a tragic hero, Darth Vader is Darth Vader! Attempting to humanize Vader is like trying to humanize Hitler. Nobody cares, and nobody wants that (or I don't, anyway.) I always imagined young Anakin as being like a young Johan from Naoki Urasawa's Monster, but I guess Lucas didn't agree.

I'm going to cut this short, because I could gripe about Lucas all day.

squiggothhunter:
....Have you seen the new south park?

That's what I thought this thread was regarding....

I should have voted "no." I strongly suspect that Lucas never had "it." One thing is certain to me: "it" is not there right now.

I think Lucas lost it the second he realized how much he could milk the Star Wars franchise for.

http://www.imdb.com/rg/action-box-title/primary-photo/media/rm670340864/tt1185834

end of thread

Space Spoons:

On topic, though, I don't think George Lucas has lost his touch... I just don't think he really "gets" that the series has grown beyond his singular control. It's not just about the movies anymore. There's an entire Expanded Universe, with games, books and comics all constantly adding to continuity.
For example: Did you know that Han Solo and Princess Leia went on to have a child (Jacen Solo) that became one of the most feared Sith Lords in the galaxy?

yeah but look at all the fan fiction that ppl have made up about other things, such as Doctor Who and Star Trek, yet none of that is canon.

Aside from that, I just don't think he's that great of a filmmaker overall. If you look at the original trilogy from a strictly cinematic point of view, the only thing they had going for them was that they were original. Up until then, we had never seen a space station the size of a moon blow up an entire planet. Fast forward to the present, and that sort of thing has become a mainstay. Lucas never got the memo. Hence, his stuff is seen as stale, tired and even outright awful.

actually i do agree they weren't great pieces of cinema, HOWEVER there was great aspects in the films. there is a ton of foreshadowing and other stuff that get english and film majours all a flutter. the movies are actually study in some film classes because of the story and how the plot weaves in and out and all the neat aspects of it

Samurai Goomba:

I don't think Lucas ever really "got" that about the series. In all his movie commentaries, he keeps trying to talk about plot progression, or how he always envisioned Evil Baddy #3 as a gradual result of Childhood Trauma #7. He calls Darth Vader a "tragic hero." What? Wander from SotC is a tragic hero, Darth Vader is Darth Vader! Attempting to humanize Vader is like trying to humanize Hitler. Nobody cares, and nobody wants that (or I don't, anyway.) I always imagined young Anakin as being like a young Johan from Naoki Urasawa's Monster, but I guess Lucas didn't agree.

I'm going to cut this short, because I could gripe about Lucas all day.

could it possibly be you didn't get his vision of what Star Wars was? it was HIS movie and HIS idea not your's. you put your own spin and such on it without trying to see what he actually intended.

so i'm pretty sure he "got" the idea of Star Wars because he came up with the idea after heavily borrowing from older movies and you've twisted and perverted and totally misinterpreted what he actually intended and you disagree what he wanted and was trying to achieve

He was talented when he was making movies for the sake of expressing these characters and creating the universe in which the movie is set, but now it has gone hollywood, less about the fans and making something enjoyable, more about making that with money as an end goal.

He just isn't the director or creator he was before.

cleverlymadeup:
could it possibly be you didn't get his vision of what Star Wars was? it was HIS movie and HIS idea not your's. you put your own spin and such on it without trying to see what he actually intended.

so i'm pretty sure he "got" the idea of Star Wars because he came up with the idea after heavily borrowing from older movies and you've twisted and perverted and totally misinterpreted what he actually intended and you disagree what he wanted and was trying to achieve

I'm not sure you're really receiving on the same wavelength as the rest of us. I'll break it down for you.

Lucas stole Dune, cut off the hard parts, and made a movie. It was only really groundbreaking because of its special effects and potential. The writing and plot were both awful. The sequel (which he had a *lot* of help writing, and he didn't direct) was amazing. It showed us how good the plotline really could be for something as simple as your basic space western. Then Lucas and Richard Marquand made Jedi and everything started to go downhill.

Flash forward a bit. The expanded universe starts being written. These aren't fan fiction writers, these are people who got Lucas' permission to add to his world(s), and they created this amazing, intricate universe with fleshed out characters and compelling scenarios. In case you don't get this point, I'm going to state it plainly here. THIS IS WHERE STAR WARS OFFICIALLY OUTGREW LUCAS. This is where his idea to steal someone else's good idea and cut off the parts that made him think was made into something really grand. This was a continuation of the "empire-esq" Star Wars. It was the Star Wars that we wanted and loved.

Everything he's done since he's started working on Star Wars again has shown nothing but contempt for the way the storyline and characters have evolved and developed (with his permission, remember) over the course of twenty years. He had a masterpiece that other people wrote but he was lucky enough to get credit for and he's shitting all over it. Saying that "he wrote it and he gets to decide what happens" doesn't wash in this case.

To put this in perspective, let's say that Bill Watterson had been shadow-writing Calvin and Hobbes under the name Jim Davis for ten years, and then Jim Davis decided to write it himself, threw out Hobbes completely, and gave Calvin a lasagna obsession. Do you see how that's a bad thing?

- J

George needs to step down from Star Wars and let it be. He's starting to ruin the whole series!

He never had it. He's always be crazy. Problem is, from the prequels onwards, no ones being telling Goerge Lucas "No, thats dumb, don't do that, do this" George had some great ideas, but he also came up with a load of crap.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/
Watch the China probrem episode. :)

I'm sure I've seen at least 3 threads in the last couple of weeks about this. I know because I've posted on them too. :(

So for shortness sake: No he never had it.
[/thread]

tiredinnuendo:

I'm not sure you're really receiving on the same wavelength as the rest of us. I'll break it down for you.

Lucas stole Dune, cut off the hard parts, and made a movie. It was only really groundbreaking because of its special effects and potential. The writing and plot were both awful. The sequel (which he had a *lot* of help writing, and he didn't direct) was amazing. It showed us how good the plotline really could be for something as simple as your basic space western. Then Lucas and Richard Marquand made Jedi and everything started to go downhill.

acutally i do believe he borrowed the story of Star Wars from the Hidden Fortress
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_Fortress#Influence

mixed with Flash Gordon and such serials, stuff that he watched as a kid, which he has said many a time in interviews and no mention of Frank Herbert and Dune anywhere in there. so what does Dune have to do with Star Wars?

Flash forward a bit. The expanded universe starts being written. These aren't fan fiction writers, these are people who got Lucas' permission to add to his world(s), and they created this amazing, intricate universe with fleshed out characters and compelling scenarios. In case you don't get this point, I'm going to state it plainly here. THIS IS WHERE STAR WARS OFFICIALLY OUTGREW LUCAS. This is where his idea to steal someone else's good idea and cut off the parts that made him think was made into something really grand. This was a continuation of the "empire-esq" Star Wars. It was the Star Wars that we wanted and loved.

right and since it was HIS creation he can do what ever the hell he wants and change it, he's also stated he doesn't like how ppl have changed things or portrayed them as it wasn't part of his vision.

i clearly understand things, sadly you have some sort of grand illusion about what Star Wars is and really means. it means and is what ever Lucas wants to do with it

Everything he's done since he's started working on Star Wars again has shown nothing but contempt for the way the storyline and characters have evolved and developed (with his permission, remember) over the course of twenty years. He had a masterpiece that other people wrote but he was lucky enough to get credit for and he's shitting all over it. Saying that "he wrote it and he gets to decide what happens" doesn't wash in this case.

yes it does very much wash in this case, i mean would Gene Roddenberry really like what they've done with Star Trek? probly not and did he really pay attention to all the other "fleshed out" aspects of the Trek universe that people made? no sorry to say he didn't, he did what he pleased with Star Trek and they have WAY more rabid fans than Star Wars ever will

To put this in perspective, let's say that Bill Watterson had been shadow-writing Calvin and Hobbes under the name Jim Davis for ten years, and then Jim Davis decided to write it himself, threw out Hobbes completely, and gave Calvin a lasagna obsession. Do you see how that's a bad thing?

- J

that makes no sense at all and is rather confusing

it would work if you said "Jim Davis is shadowing writing Calvin and Hobbes as Bill Waterson and then wrote as himself and got rid of Hobbes and changed Calvin to a lasanga eating tiger" but the way you have it worded it makes no sense and really shows how much you don't understand about Star Wars and what Lucas wants and thinks about his creation

cleverlymadeup:
*snip*

You're just not getting it, and from your past record of ravenously defending the new Star Wars direction, it's fairly clear that you won't. I do want to clarify my analogy though, because I was proud of it.

cleverlymadeup:

To put this in perspective, let's say that Bill Watterson had been shadow-writing Calvin and Hobbes under the name Jim Davis for ten years, and then Jim Davis decided to write it himself, threw out Hobbes completely, and gave Calvin a lasagna obsession. Do you see how that's a bad thing?

- J

that makes no sense at all and is rather confusing

it would work if you said "Jim Davis is shadowing writing Calvin and Hobbes as Bill Waterson and then wrote as himself and got rid of Hobbes and changed Calvin to a lasanga eating tiger" but the way you have it worded it makes no sense and really shows how much you don't understand about Star Wars and what Lucas wants and thinks about his creation

Perhaps it would've helped if I'd started the point by saying: "Let's say that Jim Davis came up with an idea that there should be a comic strip named Calvin and Hobbes, and commissioned Bill Watterson to write it for him, but held onto the rights to the franchise."

Here's the breakdown: Davis is Lucas. A hack of a writer who happened to have one good conceptual idea but nowhere near the talent to form it into something great. Bill Watterson is Leigh Brackett, Lawrence Kasdan, Irvin Kershner, Timothy Zahn, and all the other talented artists who formed the idea into something great.

At the end of the analogy, Lucas (Davis, remember) throws out all the good people (Watterson) and much of their work and contributions to the franchise (Hobbes, which the added implication that he switched the characters because he didn't really understand them, thus making Calvin the tiger) and makes something really awful (reference to Garfield).

See the parallels now? Apologies if it was too hard to follow the first time. Trust me, to folks who were old enough to read Calvin and Hobbes in the newspaper, it's actually a pretty good comparison.

- J

Did he ever truly have it? More and more I believe the original Trilogy was an epic fluke.

Sadly, a force unleashed movie would be even worst...

tiredinnuendo:

cleverlymadeup:
*snip*

You're just not getting it, and from your past record of ravenously defending the new Star Wars direction, it's fairly clear that you won't. I do want to clarify my analogy though, because I was proud of it.

compared to you who ended up getting all the influences of where Lucas got his ideas for the films completely wrong? sorry i DO get it, look at Doctor Who or Star Trek for great examples of that

Perhaps it would've helped if I'd started the point by saying: "Let's say that Jim Davis came up with an idea that there should be a comic strip named Calvin and Hobbes, and commissioned Bill Watterson to write it for him, but held onto the rights to the franchise."

Here's the breakdown: Davis is Lucas. A hack of a writer who happened to have one good conceptual idea but nowhere near the talent to form it into something great. Bill Watterson is Leigh Brackett, Lawrence Kasdan, Irvin Kershner, Timothy Zahn, and all the other talented artists who formed the idea into something great.

At the end of the analogy, Lucas (Davis, remember) throws out all the good people (Watterson) and much of their work and contributions to the franchise (Hobbes, which the added implication that he switched the characters because he didn't really understand them, thus making Calvin the tiger) and makes something really awful (reference to Garfield).

See the parallels now? Apologies if it was too hard to follow the first time. Trust me, to folks who were old enough to read Calvin and Hobbes in the newspaper, it's actually a pretty good comparison.

- J

or how about someone, such as myself, who is old enough to have actually seen Star Wars on it's original run in theaters pointing out how wrong you are and you just blindly following fanboyism without paying attention to the facts of what the person who created did and said about what he wanted to do with the stories?

and actually the parallels aren't there and the analogy is rather bad, i get what you're trying to say however it falls massively short of what really happened. take a look a Star Trek as a prime example, Kirk died in Generations, yet some writer brought him back to life but he's still very much dead according to actual Star Trek canon

just because a writer with some creative license has changed what the original creator has wanted or envisioned for his creation doesn't mean what they did is actually canon according to the original idea. look at Spider-man, Superman, Batman, Fantastic Four, X-Men, Star Trek, Doctor Who, Conan and Dune, they've all been changed and twisted around compared to what the original creator of those characters have created no matter what other artists have done

also notice stuff outside of Lucasarts and that is called the Star Wars EXPANDED universe not the Star Wars universe, they are not totally the same thing, notice the word EXPANDED in there

In terms of making digustingly huge stacks of cash, Lucas hasn't really lost it. To him, the ends justify these means.