The other day i was innocently browsing the 3 for 2 bin at my local games retailer in search for a copy of Fable, my search was futile but i did manage to stumble across a few games, including Jade Empire.

The game starts you out as a martial arts student in mythological china (called "The Jade Empire" here). Apparently badguys find your school and burn it down and your master, before being kidnapped tells you that you are gonna save the world blah blah blah. You then set out on an adventure to set him free and save the world. The story does sound generical but it actualy works just fine. Overall its very well written with just the right amount of twists and turns. Some moments are fantasticly climatic, like when you storm the imperial palace and fight the emperor one on one, while some moments just seem to flop over like a dead fish. The one that mostly comes to mind there is when you battle through hoards of demons to fight a giant mega-evil-destroyerofworlds-stealerofsouls-iatechucknorris utlra-demon. The fight itself turns out to be against 3 weak copies of yourself that are despatched in about 30 seconds, horribly exiting...

Overall the game has a very eastern/Buddish feel to it, which is great. The fact that it wasent just another Tolkien/Star Wars copy improved the game immensly in my eyes and it sort of reminded me of Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon/Hero. But there was one major fault in the lore that annoyed me immensly.

Alot of games based on western socieies have their moral choices based on good or evil, this if fine for me, i like choosing between the two. But unfortunately they do the same in Jade Empire, you can be either good or bad. But my understanding of Buddist philosofy is that choices are less about good and evil then chaos or harmony. To ask yourself if the divine quest your on does more harm then good, or if the ends justify the means would make me think much higher of the game.

The characters in your group and interesting but generic, there's the nice girl who hears ghosts, the sly roguish type, the crazy berzerker, the scientist who likes explosions and the little girls with two awesome demons inside of her. Actualy the demon girl is rather cool but unfortunately she is the one in the party with the least to say. The characters interact with you and eachother in the same was as in KotOR but this time around they feel alot more alive, often having fiery discussions.

Unfortunately the voice acting is horrible, not FFX horrible but it still sucks. The only characters in the entire game that sounded asian was an old crone who spoke about three lines, the rest were just typical americans and one british guy. Very much a dissapointment. Sometimes they would speak an ancient mystical language that sounded cool and i dont understand why they couldent speak it all the time, i dont mind subtitles if the voice acting sounds credible.

But the worst flaw in the game is the combat, after watching Advent Children i felt a strong desire in me for a CRPG that played as fun as the movie seemed to be, Devil May Cry with a propper RPG system if you may. I was hoping for this from Jade Empire, but the dieties of gaming completely ignored my unspoken request (prics) and made it the most bland and boring combat i have ever seen in a RPG. Diablo had more complexity to it. You have 3 stats; Body, Mind, Spirit. All that either of them does is increase their respective bars on the screen, body gives you more health, mind more mana and spirit more focus. Couldent they add something more interesting like that Spirit gives you faster attack speed or Body more damage? How about training new abilities that required X amount of a certain stat? You can choose between quite a few combat styles, but unfortunately there is almost no diffirence between any of then, you just mash A until your enemies does and dodge when they attack.

Even if it had some major flaws Jade Empire is definately worth bargain bin hunting for (aparently xbox games are cheaper these days). The gameplay and lore issues are forgiven in face of a good story and original setting.

Ok, stop! It's grammar time!

Re-read your article, and fix up the punctuation ("...a copy of Fable, my search was futile...") and spelling (philosofy, diffirence, definately, for example).

Other than proof-reading, I feel that you need to 'refine' your ideas, because they appear a little unclear to me. This may just me though.

Otherwise, practise makes perfect, so keep at it.

- A procrastinator

Gah! My speeling(!) is my shame and i shall strive to better myself, once i bother to install OpenOffice on my computer.

And yes, my ideas do need to be refined, turned into premium brain fuel.

*shrugs* Most of your criticisms are pretty accurate. The voiceovers aren't BAD, but it did bother me that people spoke perfect unaccented English in ancient China. The combat did have some issues but I thought it was still fun overall.

My biggest complaint is that it was just KotOR in China. Most of the characters felt like I had seen them before and done better in previous Bioware games. They do seem to be eating their own tails lately.

ReepNeep:
*shrugs* Most of your criticisms are pretty accurate. The voiceovers aren't BAD, but it did bother me that people spoke perfect unaccented English in ancient China. The combat did have some issues but I thought it was still fun overall.

My biggest complaint is that it was just KotOR in China. Most of the characters felt like I had seen them before and done better in previous Bioware games. They do seem to be eating their own tails lately.

I've never really understood the concept of objecting to unaccented English--Chinese people listening to other Chinese people speaking Chinese don't hear a "Chinese" accent, so why, if we are supposedly in the game world and of the game world, would we hear Chinese accents? Now, Canadian accents in China, on the other hand, what's up with that?

I liked Jade Empire a lot, in part because I think they got the wuxia movie tropes and conventions about as right as I could expect from a game. I agree that JE did end up being KoTOrient, and I think the reason for that is very specific. They repeatedly say in the game that it is possible to be an honorable follower of the Closed Fist path, which is to say be a badass and a good guy at the same time, but! they didn't actually let you play it that way. It was still Light/Dark, Good/Evil.

Honestly, I think they set themselves up with a premise that was more than they knew how to build. If it's possible to be Open Palm and a villain, and it's possible to be Closed Fist and a the hero, then you effectively have to write 5 alternate plot paths, not 3--OP/Good, OP/Evil, CF/Good, CF/Evil, and Selfish/Neutral. Writing 3 plot paths and all the NPC reactions associated with each has got to be one hell of an undertaking. Writing 5? Could you do it? I couldn't.

Additionally, it was their first foray out of turn-based combat, and so I think a lot of effort that might have normally been expended on developing the moral aspects of the game went into nailing down the combat system (which I liked, because I really get tired of screwing around with medpacks, potions, armor, weapons, inventory, inventory, inventory.)

And one correction: Body, Mind, and Spirit don't just fill your health/chi/focus bars, they also are the source of your ability to use Charm, Intuition, of Intimidation to influence people, which is a nice twist on the KoTOR Persuade ability.

I'm really hoping that there will be a JE2, and that they will be able to build upon what I think is a really solid IP.

You only use Charm, Intuition and Intimidation at rare occasions and overall they felt rather poorly implemented.

I definately want a sequel, maybe casting Silk Fox as the main character.

The combat can actually be fun if you put all your points into focus and use Mirabelle's targeting glitch to turn it semi-auto. It was quite satisfying to use what was really a novelty weapon to beat the toughest enemies of the game with ease.

I thought the combat in the game was very 'meh'. It felt like a glorified version of rock, paper scissors. Overall the game wasn't bad, but Bioware are certainly capable of much better.

It's spelled "Buddhist", but that's a common error and I pretty much agree with the review.

Visually attractive game, but weak combat (on the PC version anyway) and I actually didn't like being "too good" for a quest. The quest-giver said I was "too much of the open path" or something. Normally I wouldn't mind, but it pissed me off for some reason.

ReepNeep:
*shrugs* Most of your criticisms are pretty accurate. The voiceovers aren't BAD, but it did bother me that people spoke perfect unaccented English in ancient China.

That's the thing, it isn't ancient China, is it? It's inspired by ancient China, but it is ultimately a fantasy world.

I'm currently playing the game on the PC, while I agree that the combat isn't great, the rest of your criticisms don't ring true with me. The voice acting is fine, with a solid cast. It's not the best I've ever heard, but it's not the worst either, not by a long shot. You claim that the companion characters are "interesting but generic", surely they can't be both?

(I was also going to have a mini-rant about you not knowing that the British guy was John Cleese, but you're from Sweden, so might not be familiar with him. Good job I checked really.)

nilcypher:

ReepNeep:
*shrugs* Most of your criticisms are pretty accurate. The voiceovers aren't BAD, but it did bother me that people spoke perfect unaccented English in ancient China.

That's the thing, it isn't ancient China, is it? It's inspired by ancient China, but it is ultimately a fantasy world.

I'm currently playing the game on the PC, while I agree that the combat isn't great, the rest of your criticisms don't ring true with me. The voice acting is fine, with a solid cast. It's not the best I've ever heard, but it's not the worst either, not by a long shot. You claim that the companion characters are "interesting but generic", surely they can't be both?

(I was also going to have a mini-rant about you not knowing that the British guy was John Cleese, but you're from Sweden, so might not be familiar with him. Good job I checked really.)

Eh? Its got sword fighting with obviously Chinese weapons and a cast filled with people of obviously east-asian ancestry in a world obviously based on Chinese mythology. If you want to split hairs I guess you're entitled.

Where in my post did I say they were interesting? The vast majority of the characters, to me, were dull beyond belief. The only truly entertaining character in the game was the westerner and they almost lose all the cool points for that by throwing in another of their stilted conversational puzzles. (on second thought the possessed little girl was great fun too)

Also, where did you get the idea that I'm from Sweden? Did you see the little stars-and-stripes under my name in my profile? (also, for someone who can recite most of the dead parrot sketch, it is pretty embarrassing that I didn't recognize his voice)

I don't want to get drawn into an argument but some of the stuff you said was just bizarre.

He said refering to me regarding swedish/interesting.

And i definately am well aware of who John Cleese is thank you. But i dont really think his preformance was all that funny, but i guess that would be Biowares fault.

Regarding characters being generic but interesting att the same time would refer to that they are rather unoriginal but i liked them anyway.

And yes, Jade Empire is as much China as The Lord of The Rings and Narnia are England.

sammyfreak:
You only use Charm, Intuition and Intimidation at rare occasions and overall they felt rather poorly implemented.

I definately want a sequel, maybe casting Silk Fox as the main character.

Hm, I felt like I used them quite a bit, at least as often as I used Persuade in KoTOR, and generally with more success.

Since it sounds like they got their Action RPG issues straightened out quite a bit with Mass Effect (there's a 360 a work, so I'm going to buy it and play it there until I get my own box), I have high hopes for JE2, if they ever get around to it. Even if it turns out to be Mass Empire, I doubt I will mind.

Character-wise, JE needed more Zu and less Dawn Star, and Sky needed to be less Carth and more Atton. My two cents.

I thought both Dawn Star and Zu were the weakest points of the cast. Black Whirlwind, demon girl and Silk Fox where the most awesome,

sammyfreak:
I thought both Dawn Star and Zu were the weakest points of the cast. Black Whirlwind, demon girl and Silk Fox where the most awesome,

Ah, well, there you go--differing tastes make for a more interesting world.

i thought that the combat was good but there are a few things that i would change

1. having one style be better than the other, they kinda touched on this with the ghosts and stuff, but i would have like to see a certain style be better at defending against this other one, or the other way around.

2. i wish that there were more weapons other than sword and spear

3. learning new moves would make it a ton better

It isn't Biowares best game but compared to many games it is quite good.

mshcherbatskaya:

sammyfreak:
I thought both Dawn Star and Zu were the weakest points of the cast. Black Whirlwind, demon girl and Silk Fox where the most awesome,

Ah, well, there you go--differing tastes make for a more interesting world.

No, whenever someone doesnt agree with me i die on the inside.

sammyfreak:

mshcherbatskaya:

sammyfreak:
I thought both Dawn Star and Zu were the weakest points of the cast. Black Whirlwind, demon girl and Silk Fox where the most awesome,

Ah, well, there you go--differing tastes make for a more interesting world.

No, whenever someone doesnt agree with me i die on the inside.

OK, well, that might make the world more interesting for other people.

;->

*grabs a zippo and some gasoline and torches this whole thread for not being pro-John Cleese enough*

Other than the review being a frightning wall of text and run on sentances, I agree with the praise, but funny enough I *enjoyed* the combat a great deal. It was part of what made it work. The game was about being a kick ass kung fu master, or whatever, and it suceeded at that, I loved jumping around, unloading combos, pulling out a weapon and knocking baddies around, the whole thing was very satisfying.

I liked KOTOR, and my wife is Chinese, she liked Jade Empire too :) Wu the Lotus Blossom rocks!

I'm playing Jade Empire for the first time and am enjoying it. Sure, it has it's cliches(Burning peasent village, anyone?) and it's amazing that despite the terrian looking wide open in places, you are funneled along a cospicously narrow path. And I'm getting a bit annoyed at the inability to heal away from a healing shrine.

But the story is drawing me in, and it's fun. Sure, it's KOTOR in China, but so far I'm enjoying it more then KOTOR2.

Dalisclock:
And I'm getting a bit annoyed at the inability to heal away from a healing shrine.

Chi heal. You press and hold the white button. It uses up chi(blue bar) to regenerate your health. Also, the little red orbs you get in combat regenerate your health as well.

praxis22:
I liked KOTOR, and my wife is Chinese, she liked Jade Empire too :) Wu the Lotus Blossom rocks!

I liked Scholar Ling because she wore pants. But Wu is cool too.

babyblues:

Dalisclock:
And I'm getting a bit annoyed at the inability to heal away from a healing shrine.

Chi heal. You press and hold the white button. It uses up chi(blue bar) to regenerate your health. Also, the little red orbs you get in combat regenerate your health as well.

Okay, True. But the chi heal goes fast at lower levels and the red orbs are random.

I'm thinking more along the lines of health kits......and at least the force actually regenerated on it's own outside of battle.

I really can't say I think that a drunken thug who burned down a temple with rats or an inventor cum patron saint of tinkering with a tendency to speak in non sequiturs are the most generic characters. In fact, between Black Whirlwind, Lotus Blossom, Kang, and side bits like the wedding quest and the cow-tossing ogre, it seemed at times they were trying too hard to be different. Don't get me started on the "Buh!?" effect of seeing that I was going to be playing Galaga Mock-Chinese Edition.

The combat IS simple, until you figure out how to use harmonic combos. I never was particularly good at them, but use of the right combos would provide health, chi, focus or powerup on demand. Here's the problem, then: they don't force you into learning how to use them and there's nothing to progress you into them, so the combat exists at two levels. Simple rock-scissors-paper for people who just pick up the game and play, and the other for people who OCD over it; there's nothing in between.

Actually, the thing that disappointed me most was lack of total number of areas; you could see that they had more planned at one time, but didn't complete them. I'd still rate it as a gem, but it has flaws.

jade empire was my first bioware experience and i'm going to say this, i damn near fell asleep playing kotor the combat was so boring, but in jade empire i played the whole thing and loved it. not to mention it seems like everyone and their mother pretty much prefaces anything they say about a bioware game with "kotor 1 was much more complete and fleshed out, so much better" well i say screw that noise, i play oblivion and morrowind and kotor was too slow moving for me while jade empire was a blast. i liked the story, the characters, and pretty much everything about it.

@ The Captain - Kang was a pretty basic mad scientist character. He was often quite funny, but was pretty much two-dimensional. The same goes for Black Whirlwind. None of the characters seem to undergo much in the way of personality development (other than the little girl which might be why I like her so much).

Perhaps I'm expecting too much to think video game characters should have some depth to them. The ones I enjoy the most are just the crazy over-the-top caricatures like Duke Nukem or HK47, or ones that could be mistaken for having a real personality and emotions like Dak'kon and Morte from Torment(hell, that game's whole cast was awesome in that reguard).

@ gorilla - KotOR's combat plays like a strategy game. Thats pretty traditional PCRPG stuff, there. The others you mention play more like action games: you only have control over one character, the combat is genuine real-time and not based on rounds, ect. I think it reflects your taste more than the game's quality that you didn't like it.

Methinks Bioware have to work past their Star Wars morality fetish. They had a good thing going with Jade Empire at first, then they fell back into their old routine, especially with the ending. Hell, I'm surprised there was even a third choice.

GyroCaptain:
Don't get me started on the "Buh!?" effect of seeing that I was going to be playing Galaga Mock-Chinese Edition.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw that and went "WTF? Why is this here?" It felt very out of place.

ReepNeep:
@ gorilla - KotOR's combat plays like a strategy game. Thats pretty traditional PCRPG stuff, there. The others you mention play more like action games: you only have control over one character, the combat is genuine real-time and not based on rounds, ect. I think it reflects your taste more than the game's quality that you didn't like it.

yeah i'll agree it's more about my taste than how good it is, but how do you judge how good something is if you don't like it? but the weird thing is i like TONS of other games that use turn based combat and they don't bore me, fire emblem, ogre battle, pokemon, grandia 2, final fantasy(some of them), arc the lad, enchanted arms, just to name a few. i honestly can't put my finger on why their form of turn based combat bothers me so much it just does.

i'll admit it's not a bad thing i just gotta say i like jade empire better, it was a better game for ME.

Blayze:
Methinks Bioware have to work past their Star Wars morality fetish. They had a good thing going with Jade Empire at first, then they fell back into their old routine, especially with the ending. Hell, I'm surprised there was even a third choice.

I remember reading a while back about the "Closed Fist" vs. "Open Palm". paths and how it was different then "Good" vs. "Evil".

And then I play the game and find out it's pretty much "Good" vs. "Evil". and not terribly difficult to tell immediately which is which.

Well, okay, it's slightly more complicated, but still, any particular conversation will go like this.

Man: Help me.
You:(Choose one)
A. Okay.
B. Sure, but I want some payment.
C. I'll kill you right here, because I'm a sociopath.

Just like KOTOR.

One of the best things I've heard about the Witcher is that there tends to be a lot more Moral Ambiguity in the decisions, which I think needs more rep