Echolocating:
There was a time in The Escapist's history when the reader discussions were guaranteed to be articulate and insightful. It was as if the site was unattractive to the kewl doods. In fact, the forums (remember when it was called The Lounge?) were nearly as interesting and rewarding as the articles themselves. It truly did feel like a tight knit group.

I must admit, things have changed pretty significantly with Yahtzee's presence here, but I can't fault him or The Escapist for being popular. Actually, I have to commend the administration for keeping tabs on the posts and continuously banning the bad apples. Seriously, the site is amazing in that regard and I know The Escapist realizes the importance behind that watchful eye. I definitely appreciate it... though they could be a bit more liberal with that hammer. ;-)

I do miss the old magazine layout though, as much as it pained the staff to construct. I can't let it go... I'm sorry. ;-)

This very much captures my thoughts. I miss the experience of reading the Escapist as a magazine. I miss how the forums used to be. However, I understand that only a minority of people read the magazine layout and the web layout was far more popular. So, I can understand why all the changes happened and they make sense.

I also think that Yahtzee was a great catch. I find him entertaining and he draws a lot of people to the site.

I wouldn't mind if the moderators were more smash happy with the ban hammer but I don't have any real complaints. Due to the increased volume of threads and posts, I don't really have time to follow it closely any more. It takes more time to weed through the dross, but for a forum this size, it is pretty well moderated.

In all honesty, as long as threads such as this one continue to exist I'm not too worried. I agree with some points made, and not with others, but it's definitely an intriguing read.

Yes Zero Punctuation will almost certainly bring in new and occasionally 'undesirable' elements; it also brings fresh ideas and opportunities. Have faith brother.

Gigantor,

I would like nothing more than to be associated with the hoarders of gold and masters of human sacrifice, so Inca is fine.

In any case, I think your first concern--about The Escapist being a submission-based magazine--is very interesting. It gave me significant pause before I could think of anything to the contrary. While I find it to be a logical conclusion that higher circulation means better submissions--and a preferable one, at that--I'm not convinced there is an absolutely positive correlation between greater readership and better material. The readership of The Escapist has clearly grown significantly since its early issues, but I would not say the quality of the articles has increased in proportion to the readership's exponential growth. In fact, I do not know if I would say the current articles are at all improved in comparison to their ancestors. But, that is entirely a matter of opinion, and I was more impressionable and easily impressed in years past--so perhaps the older articles have a dearer place in my heart.

I do agree that a greater readership means more submissions, and while it makes sense that a greater selection means a greater chance for something truly wonderful to show up in The Escapist, I believe there is a darker side. If The Escapist editorial staff retains its current numbers, that means more sifting, more editing, more decision-making, and more general responsibility placed on each member. It then follows that under greater pressure, people are more willing to sacrifice quality for speed in order to get in under the deadline. So, I would say there is somewhat of a balance to seek. On the other hand, The Escapist can hire more editors as its workload increases, and so long as more recognition means more submissions, the staff will have to increase. Whether this means better editing and more oversight--or a bloated publication--depends on your point of view.

But, I think that all is just part of the bigger picture. As The Escapist has progressed and grown, I have watched it move in the direction of a more "mainstream major publication" feel--and so there are news briefs, forums, audio-visual attractions, and a new layout. However, the original feature articles persist in a less prominent position; still important, but no longer the absolute keystone for the publication, they seem like more of a relic from the days gone by when The Escapist was a purebred commentary magazine with an elite reputation. To me, The Escapist appears to be trapped somewhere in between mainstream and fringe commentator; for one, readership is everything--it is money, it is reputation, it is the number. For the other, the wishes of the masses can sometimes be ignored in favor of the integrity of the publication.

That is not to say the two are mutually exclusive, or that there is not a balance that The Escapist might strike. But I believe that the weight of Zero Punctuation will tip it in one direction over the other. Then again, I could be complaining about anything. It could be any X-factor, and no matter how nostalgic for the Old Days I might be, there will always be an X-factor that doesn't sit well with somebody. This time, it just happens to be Zero Punctuation, and it just happens to be me.

"nostalgic"? Maybe it's the complex nature of your post, the same one that might scare off casual posters, but I am slightly annoyed by you saying that.

1- You have not been here long, but then again you could have only just signed up.

2- I gather from the final pra' that you disslike Yahtzee and ZP. So the Jist of your post is: I don't like where the site is at right now and I don't like one of the major parts of the site.

This seems like your opinion and you are trying to justify it, which is not needed.

Knight Templar:
"nostalgic"? Maybe it's the complex nature of your post, the same one that might scare off casual posters, but I am slightly annoyed by you saying that.

1- You have not been here long, but then again you could have only just signed up.

2- I gather from the final pra' that you disslike Yahtzee and ZP. So the Jist of your post is: I don't like where the site is at right now and I don't like one of the major parts of the site.

This seems like your opinion and you are trying to justify it, which is not needed.

Even though I stated at the very beginning that I did not want to address these things because they did not contribute much to the topic or support my ideas very well, and were generally distracting and irrelevant factors, it seems that you would like me to address them.

First, I've held a subscription to The Escapist since Issue 27, and while I can't say I've read every issue between then and now, I've read all of the oldest ones, and all of the newest ones for at least thirty issues in each direction, as well as scattered readings in between due to inconsistent interest on my part.

Second, I watch Zero Punctuation each week, and have do so since he began his tenure at The Escapist. I have seen them all, and each one has made me laugh out of both cynical agreement and embarassed self-consciousness.

But the idea I'm presenting really is not about me or my personal tastes. Rather, it is about the questions I'm trying to raise; not so much for any smug self-satisfaction, but just so some people with some decision making responsibilities might keep such considerations in mind and come to whatever conclusions they wish. But, I feel that the aforementioned complexity of my posts might be leading you to simplify what I'm attempting to say. It is an entirely understandable misunderstanding.

So, no. I'm not trying to criticize Yahtzee or Zero Punctuation as creator or creation. That's why I largely left them out of my original post as talking points.

Finally, I do feel that I need to justify and clarify my opinion, because I care about other people understanding and recognizing my point as valid--or at least worthy of some consideration.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, mostly about the signing up thing. I was talking about your account not subscribing; my bad.

As in the words of oh Annoyingly famous one I would like to flatten the person's face with a Kayak paddle that told him off for caving to peer pressure. Think about it in Yahtzee's shoes: when he starts his computer, 5 different programs tell him in total he has 4000+ new emails. I probably would cave in too.

TheNecroswanson:

cball11:
You raise some interesting questions. Also, thank you for introducing me to the concept of Dunbar's Number.

I admit to being one of those folks who came here just for the yellow screen, the British guy and the Imp, and I don't really know what the site was, or rather, is. I think I'll read one of your articles, see if they really are as intellectual as you say. I hope they are, every other damn gaming site reads like a Halo 3 multiplayer lobby.

--Cball

You didn't just say Mr.Croshaw was Brittish did you? Please tell me you didn't....

well he was originality but moved to Australia me thinks.

conqueror Kenny:

TheNecroswanson:

cball11:
You raise some interesting questions. Also, thank you for introducing me to the concept of Dunbar's Number.

I admit to being one of those folks who came here just for the yellow screen, the British guy and the Imp, and I don't really know what the site was, or rather, is. I think I'll read one of your articles, see if they really are as intellectual as you say. I hope they are, every other damn gaming site reads like a Halo 3 multiplayer lobby.

--Cball

You didn't just say Mr.Croshaw was Brittish did you? Please tell me you didn't....

well he was originality but moved to Australia me thinks.

You guys haven't been to Fully Ramblomatic, have you. :I

Incandescence:
Come, all ye Yahtzee fans, regular readers, editors. Have at me.

Must I? Okay... your name is somewhat ironic. Incandescence. Then you close with the above quoted.. uhh.. quote which means you wish for people to flame you. Well thought out! Unless, of course, you had no idea what incandescence meant in the first place and this irony was just coincidental. Still, I chuckled.

As to the thread, I didn't bother reading. :( I fail at trolling.

To use one of Yahtzee's quotes, I don't see the "crusader-like fevour" that he (Yahtzee) seems to attract, his work is great, and we all enjoy it, but he hates EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU. A large amount people do come to the Escapist, in my experience, only for ZP. This is annoying for me, as it's likegoing to someone's house, eating and selling everything they own, and then just walking out, no apology or thanks needed.

*edit* This is quite a strange take on the matter, I realised this after I read it through myself again....

This is a Legendary Thread

oh..........kay, valid argument.

Yes, I know crazy isnt it.

May I state Internet Law Paragraph 7. Section 3. ...Any and all Social Networking Websites can not exist after their member base breaches the tripe digits...

This is why I hate MySpace/Facebook. WAAAAAAAY to many people. This is why I oh, I dont know, TALK to people. But I digress.

Case in point: 48% OF PEOPLE ONLY GO HERE 4 ZERO PUNCTUATION

there, I said it.

*edit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescence theres your definition

I thought that the Love thread (which popped up as a response to the Hate thread) was a good step. Posters acknowledged others on the site whom they appreciate or whose opinions they value. It was a good show of solidarity amongst the regulars.

Too true. I still don't know why Joe locked it. Was it because there was too much love for his heart to take?

Anydangways, most of the people who come here only for ZP don't bother the forum, which I find at least somewhat comforting.

swift tongued:
props to virgil, if you want to complain about things being popular you have problems, anyway you spin it, it's been done before, if Yahtzee's a preacher then there are preachers who have been around before that have had larger audiences, but all he really does is provide a product, J.K. Rowling's last book was just as good as her first, if people start loving a snadwich shop, it doesn't turn shitty it becomes a franchise giving it more money, so it can better explore a culinary art giving a wider choice of sandwiches, same thing applies to Yahtzee

Or it becomes a Mcdonalds...

I admit it! I only came here for Yahtzee but then again I bought N64 for mario and got other great games. I love these forums less flame wars less idiots then again this is coming from the likes of gamespot forums..... having said that I fit more into the xbox owner that needs to kill something every 5 mins because I really didn't like the articles and ended up coming back to the yellow screen of awesomeness.

Wow, this thread is far too intelligent for me. Incandesence, I respect your intellect and the thought you put into this post. Very interesting read and in contrary to weirdaljedifan2's opinion I enjoy reading arguments with evidence to back them up.

Also, Anarchemitis, I was under the impression that Yahtzee was born in England then moved to Australia to be with his girlfriend, I'm not that sure so please feel free to inform me of the facts.