This reminds me of something:

http://badwebcomics.blogspot.com/ ^^

And as for a good webcomic:

http://www.blastwavecomic.com/

Zirror:
Yatzhee feels pretty strong about this, because he made his own web comic(s) a while back.
He probably doesnt get why something that stupid gets an unbelievable amount of attention, where as his old comics were pretty much unseen.

You make him sound very bitter. Is that really how you see it?

captain_collide:
Dude, what is there to doubt? Your 'argument' has been nothing but the textual equivalent of blah blah blah shown how mindless CAD fans are blabbity blab presented nothing edifying to convince anyone blah blah talentless hack blah blah blah Just give up.

David_Cat:
HIS forums are police state? As opposed to these forums where people blah blah etc.

PrincessRtardio:
Catherine Tate makes me want to eat feet.

I don't care if you like CAD or not, after hanging around forums for a while you have to at least appreciate this:

http://ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20080227

This strikes me as, aside from being a not-very-subtle-or-thinly-veiled attack on CTRL+ALT+DEL, a statement talking about the general over-saturation of gaming-oriented comics following the success of Penny Arcade. Calling himself the "alpha self-important bearded tosser", though, made me take this less seriously than I might otherwise.

The man likes xkcd and the Perry Bible Fellowship, how bad can he be?

Not that it'll stop anyone, but some of the people around here really ought to start making a distinction between the comic (that which Yahtzee is criticizing) and the author. I can't recall which ZP it was, but Yahtzee did make a point about disliking hot dogs because of who the vendor is and the general futility of that sort of thing. Bang on Buckley all you like, but that's not the focus of this somewhat ill-advised review.

On the subject of the review -- which made a lot more sense in the essay he wrote on his site but, of course, no one on the internet reads and, thus, Yahtzee convinced himself that a video would be the way to badly get his point across -- it's somewhat ironic that the criticism that Buckley doesn't know how to build up a punchline well is somehow negated by the simplistic comics he posted today. Apparently he does know how to do it but hasn't yet figured out how to integrate it into his rigid format?

I'm not paying for either ZP or CAD, though, so I'll continue to enjoy them as they wax and wane. My offense as a consumer only appears when I'm actually paying for crap.

TheFunkeyGibbon:
This is not a defense of the guy but if somebody said that about me I'd be pretty angry. Don't forget if it had been in a newspaper he'd have sued and nobody would have argued that kind of action. The internet is harder to handle, it has too many anonymous targets.

It does sound like he went mental though.

True, but most people have the able mind to shrug it off and tell the person that their statement is hilarious and never mention it again. Buckley on the other hand, banned moderators, users, IPs and deleted just about everything he could about it. But I do agree, it's quite annoying getting told things that aren't true by other to yourself.

Lim-Dul:
And as for a good webcomic:

http://www.blastwavecomic.com/

A 404. Is that a mistake or humour?

Ehh maybe Tim can't take criticism, maybe he overreacts.
He still makes a damn fine webcomic though.

Yes that actually is kinda how I see it.
He thought the same way about psychonauts and kind of stuff, that he goes bananas about 'stuff' that is stupid or simplistic but brings their creators enough money to 'buy all the earth and all the heavens' (in the case of nintendo).

The Webcomic-Situation is probably pretty much the same. It's not that he is jealous or bitter, he is just disappointed at society probably.

But then again, I am just guessing.

TheFunkeyGibbon:

Lim-Dul:
And as for a good webcomic:

http://www.blastwavecomic.com/

A 404. Is that a mistake or humour?

It's the ultimate in surreal humor. There is a comic there. And it's the greatest webcomic you've ever read. You just have to imagine.

ioudas omnis:
It's the ultimate in surreal humour. There is a comic there. And it's the greatest webcomic you've ever read. You just have to imagine.

Ah, the webcomic Dali might have (not) drawn. :-)

TheFunkeyGibbon:

It does sound like he went mental though.

I think any sane person would go mental if someone accused them of being a pedofile... it's kind of a natural reaction when someone starts spreading a lot of crap about you. You go apeshit trying to defend yourself and people use it against you.

Although I can't say this debate hasn't been amusing, I was afraid I wouldn't have anything to do today however this flame fest was a great fun read :) I personally do read CAD and find it quite funny that a lot of criticism of it is coming from new accounts with 1-2 posts all in this thread. I also find funny the people who will dillgently defend CAD to the death. I think I'll just quote what I said on the CAD forums:

I think people are going to take this out of proportion, it's supposed to be satirical as most of his criticisms of web comics are tools he himself uses to cash in, I thought it was funny, but CAD is a good web comic and he won't stop me reading it (if it stops anyone I'd be surprised it's like refusing to buy a game because he says it's bad, well he says everything is bad! Except Portal) Although to date he has inspired the greatest T-Shirt ever designed with the 'Pants on head retarded' one

What I find the funniest is all the 'if you find CAD funny you're an idiot' comments, humour is subjective. Just because you don't find something funny doesn't mean no one else will

Gone with the blastwave seems to be down for some time now. But if you're a regular reader there is nothing that can surprise you. (After waiting for 2 months for a new page, you just get used to not checking the page).

Also, as dedicated webcomic reader, I'd have to say I agree with Yahtzee on all of his points (yes I am very consciously avoiding the fact he's talking about CAD). This all can be solved with a simple solution - Stop reading gaming webcomics. Go gread some non-gaming one, preferably the ones that don't suck. (Gone with the blastwave, Order of the Stick, Apple Geeks etc)

He still makes a damn fine webcomic though.

I have to ask... When was this? I've read the entire thing from the very beginning to the present. It's been utter shit. The characters are one-dimensional and have been copied and pasted that many times it's unreal, the "backgrounds" are really just pictures available on the Internet after a single Google search, he's a complete drama queen...

And then there's the dialogue. There's far, far too much of the stuff. Buckley might as well just have a blank white background that he puts words onto. If you can remove the words from any comic and it still makes sense, then you don't need the words. Likewise, you could strip most - if not all - of the dialogue from a CAD comic and it would make perfect sense.

ioudas omnis:
And it's the greatest webcomic you've ever read. You just have to imagine.

You're right! It's about me and I'm getting back at all the bullies that ever had a go at me! Oh I can't see for the tears of laughter at how witty I am. The artwork is dazzling, which is odd as I draw like I've had my hands cut off. The joy of it all!

Hmmmm maybe Yahtzee had a point. If only he'd made it elsewhere and stuck to the point with ZP.

Melo The Yellow:
T Whether or not Tim actually DID show his penis is debated furiously to this day, but most agree he wouldn't have been such an over-reacting fuckwit if he was innocent.

I seriously doubt that. If anyone were to accuse me of being a pedophile, they'd be getting a swift punch in the teeth, I guarantee you.

There's a fine line between harmless insults and harmful accusations.

Meh... that felt dull to me... personally, I was impressed CAD had the balls to do a serious and hard-hitting storyline, as opposed to the tongue-in-cheek crap everyone else does.

Blayze:

He still makes a damn fine webcomic though.

I have to ask... When was this? I've read the entire thing from the very beginning to the present. It's been utter shit. The characters are one-dimensional and have been copied and pasted that many times it's unreal, the "backgrounds" are really just pictures available on the Internet after a single Google search, he's a complete drama queen...

And then there's the dialogue. There's far, far too much of the stuff. Buckley might as well just have a blank white background that he puts words onto. If you can remove the words from any comic and it still makes sense, then you don't need the words. Likewise, you could strip most - if not all - of the dialogue from a CAD comic and it would make perfect sense.

This may be a difficult concept, but... not everyone shares the exact same views as you... I know, it's hard. But humour is subjective...

Wargamer:
Meh... that felt dull to me... personally, I was impressed CAD had the balls to do a serious and hard-hitting storyline, as opposed to the tongue-in-cheek crap everyone else does.

The point is - you can't go from blah blah funny funny blah blah to blah blah serious tragic blah blah. That is why most webcomics stick either to making it a "gag a day" or make a serious storyline and go with it. Trying to mix both usually doesn't work, and CAD has proven that as well.

And then there's the dialogue. There's far, far too much of the stuff. Buckley might as well just have a blank white background that he puts words onto. If you can remove the words from any comic and it still makes sense, then you don't need the words. Likewise, you could strip most - if not all - of the dialogue from a CAD comic and it would make perfect sense.

...That is, if the dialogue appears in the right order. CAD is a notorious sufferer of Dyslexic Word Balloon Syndrome, where the cartoonist forgets that people usually read left to right as well as up to down.

"I'm trying to fix a leak in the ceiling."
"What's the bucket for, Ethan?"

Comics like that just, just... AAARRGGGHHH!!!!

PedroSteckecilo:
I take it somebody doesn't like CAD, but then again, nobody should. There's clearly something wrong with me as I still read it out of morbid facination.

Heh, same here. I was actually going to stop reading it once the comic was infested with children (as even morbid fascination has its limits)... damn you Buckley, and your conniving ways!

Jenx:

Wargamer:
Meh... that felt dull to me... personally, I was impressed CAD had the balls to do a serious and hard-hitting storyline, as opposed to the tongue-in-cheek crap everyone else does.

The point is - you can't go from blah blah funny funny blah blah to blah blah serious tragic blah blah. That is why most webcomics stick either to making it a "gag a day" or make a serious storyline and go with it. Trying to mix both usually doesn't work, and CAD has proven that as well.

Yeah, that struck me as being on of the primary points of this thing. CAD just jumped from one kind of storytelling to the other (though some would certainly argue that "storytelling" and "CAD" shouldn't be used in the same sentence. I haven't read the comic recently, as I lost interest in it, so I can't make a judgment on that.) and did it in such a strong manner that, apparently, there was a strong disconnect between the two styles.

Now this is funny:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyph_DZa_GQ

heh heh heh, genius btw the dude who is "that guy" - pished ma frillies

sfallen:
I also didn't quite fully pin all of the references on Ctrl-Atl-Delete. I did think of several other webcomics that came to mind with each point. I also thought that the miscarriage reference was just Yahtzee throwing an odd idea out there.

Being a member of the webcomic community, I see his point and feel some of his pain on many levels.

This. QFT.

It seems like quite a few aren't seeing the forest through the trees here; Yahtzee has an axe to grind with Buckley, but the episode isn't just CAD bashing. He's pointing out the inherent shittiness in gaming webcomics and webcomics in general. Control-Alt-Delete just has the dubious honor of being the most high-profile gaming comic that contains these problems. He's not attacking the CAD/webcomic fan, he's making a point. I feel like I'm verbally tonguing Croshaw's willy here but this is the most self-depreciating he's been in pretty much ever. He pointed out his own hypocrisy blatantly numerous times while still being funny.

It's like the Brawl review; just because a critic (and a critic who cut his teeth at SomethingAwful at that) says mean things about something that you like doesn't mean that they're saying mean things about you. The internet isn't SRS BUSNESS GAIZ.

Also, I'm amazed that Your Webcomic Is Bad and You Should Feel Bad hasn't shown up yet. Solomon is much nastier on webcomics and has no self-depreciation, preferring to go in the opposite direction. If the ZP review got on your tits, Solomon's reviews will burn said tits off with high molar Hydrochloric Acid.

EDIT: Son of a bitch, someone beat me to the YWIBAYSFB link.

ioudas omnis:

Jenx:

Wargamer:
Meh... that felt dull to me... personally, I was impressed CAD had the balls to do a serious and hard-hitting storyline, as opposed to the tongue-in-cheek crap everyone else does.

The point is - you can't go from blah blah funny funny blah blah to blah blah serious tragic blah blah. That is why most webcomics stick either to making it a "gag a day" or make a serious storyline and go with it. Trying to mix both usually doesn't work, and CAD has proven that as well.

though some would certainly argue that "storytelling" and "CAD" shouldn't be used in the same sentence.

CAD has a lot more story than it used to.

This may be a difficult concept, but... not everyone shares the exact same views as you... I know, it's hard. But humour is subjective...

I didn't say anything about the humour. I mentioned the shallowness of the characters, the way Buckley copies and pastes everything (Seriously, even sprite comics have more variation) from the characters to the backgrounds (Which he steals), the level of unnecessary dialogue and the overall lack of quality of the webcomic itself.

I said nothing of the humour, because I don't believe it's ever actually existed.

Trying to mix both usually doesn't work, and CAD has proven that as well.

Agreed. The only reason it worked in Megatokyo was because of the "Piroverse/Largoverse" situation. Granted, that was a flip from almost pure humour to humour and serious, but still...

Edit: Thanks for finding the link, Melo. Now let's see if Buckley's been up to any more of his usual antics lately...

The point is - you can't go from blah blah funny funny blah blah to blah blah serious tragic blah blah. That is why most webcomics stick either to making it a "gag a day" or make a serious storyline and go with it. Trying to mix both usually doesn't work, and CAD has proven that as well.

I'm really enjoying this thread.

What you said reminded me of the Bloom County series of strips where Steve Dallas broke his back (after he took a picture of Sean Penn). That was born of real life when cartoonist Berke Breathed suffered the same injury. That was a tragedy, but the strips were always funny.

Steve: "...And my MIND!?!?"
His soon-to-be-ex-girlfriend: "...Is cabbage."

I didn't understand the whole point of the miscarriage thing. I mean Buckley wrote it so that his girlfriend got accidentally pregnant. He must have looked back on it and said "oops my bad, don't want a baby in the story" and then put in "miscarriage!" to stop that problem.

Oops, did I say "his girlfriend", I guess that's an easy mistake to make since "Ethan" and his avatars look exactly the same.

In addition, if he wants to make a "serious" soap comic he shouldn't keep having some random gaming comic thrown in there once a week or so.

David_Cat:

ioudas omnis:

Jenx:

Wargamer:
Meh... that felt dull to me... personally, I was impressed CAD had the balls to do a serious and hard-hitting storyline, as opposed to the tongue-in-cheek crap everyone else does.

The point is - you can't go from blah blah funny funny blah blah to blah blah serious tragic blah blah. That is why most webcomics stick either to making it a "gag a day" or make a serious storyline and go with it. Trying to mix both usually doesn't work, and CAD has proven that as well.

though some would certainly argue that "storytelling" and "CAD" shouldn't be used in the same sentence.

CAD has a lot more story than it used to.

That's like saying Chernobyl is slightly less irradiated than it used to be. It doesn't matter if there's more story if it is ill-concieved, planned, or excecuted. CAD hits at least two of those with regularity and all three with the serious twist.

I had 5 bucks that he was gonna do it on B company lol at the CAD reference about the miscarriage.

Let's consider something very important we seem to be missing here. Even IF all this crap about Buckley is true (most of this is just unproven crap that sounds like the stuff politicians throw around at election time), does that really matter? We're talking about the webcomic, not its author! I mean, heck, Harrison Ford has participated in plenty of douchebaggery, but we still all love Star Wars and Indiana Jones. And we all know people who have done some pretty screwed up things, but we still hang out with them. In this case, all we're doing s reading a comic. Heck, even if it gets to the point where you don't want to support him, he gets NO money from the comics. As long as you don't actually buy anything, you can still enjoy the comics, regardless of your opinion of the author.

And let's clear something up, too. The miscarriage was tragic. The only funny comics for the next few WEEKS were the occasional commentary on gaming culture, for a break from the drama. He was not joking about miscarriages, he was not blowing them off like no big deal, he put a genuinely tragic turn in the story, and portrayed it for what it is: a terrible, sad experience. Go read it before you talk about it.

I use to read many, many web comics. VG cats, CAD, Penny, White ninja, plus about ohh 9 others, but eventually got tired of jokes centered around violence and cheeky stupidity. While a good point is made every now and then in said comics, I personally stopped laughing then stopped reading.

KMD:

David_Cat:

ioudas omnis:

Jenx:

Wargamer:
Meh... that felt dull to me... personally, I was impressed CAD had the balls to do a serious and hard-hitting storyline, as opposed to the tongue-in-cheek crap everyone else does.

The point is - you can't go from blah blah funny funny blah blah to blah blah serious tragic blah blah. That is why most webcomics stick either to making it a "gag a day" or make a serious storyline and go with it. Trying to mix both usually doesn't work, and CAD has proven that as well.

though some would certainly argue that "storytelling" and "CAD" shouldn't be used in the same sentence.

CAD has a lot more story than it used to.

That's like saying Chernobyl is slightly less irradiated than it used to be. It doesn't matter if there's more story if it is ill-concieved, planned, or excecuted. CAD hits at least two of those with regularity and all three with the serious twist.

Ill-concieved yes, but the "serious twist" was planned since the start of the pregnancy story, and it was executed superbly.

Oh and Player vs player's wikipage got one day changed to "PVP sucks".
Guess who? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=32072999