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Paperboy  Posts: 48 Joined: 23 Apr 2008    | |
Paperboy  Posts: 29 Joined: 19 Jun 2008 |
I've been holding in this rant for a while, so apologies in advance: In the early strips, it just just a silly, rather pointless comic. It worked. Sure, it made little sense, but it still managed to be funny. A silly, wacky comic that was funny worked. I feel I should draw a comparison to the comic Minus, which had a similar shtick. But then came the DRAMA™, which so far has failed miserably. There are several reasons for this, but by far the biggest is the following: Earlier I compared Dresden Codak to Minus. Minus also has no characterization for the characters. At most, a character's entire personality might be an emotion, like "angry guy". But Minus was never about the plot, the characters, or anything other than just being wacky and silly. That's not to say I wouldn't mind a little more characterization, but strictly speaking it doesn't need it. At its root, that is Dresden Codak's problem. It's not just the painfully bad exposition. It's not just the fact that I can't care about the plot because it makes only marginally more sense than the earlier strips; I can take it not making sense of it's funny, I can't take it not making sense if it doesn't even have the humor to make up for it. It's not that the comic strip has one of the worst update schedules I've ever seen (and this is AFTER the author made a big announcement about how he was making it his full-time job and said he would go on a weekly schedule; quite frankly, the schedule is about as erratic as it was before that announcement). The problem is simply the fact that I can't care about the characters at all due to their lack of any sort of personality, and thus I don't care about the story. Again, Dresden Codak was quite good earlier on. But it's lost what drew me to it (the crazy humor) and has instead inserted a plot that I really can't find myself caring much about. Take note, everyone: When you enter Cerebus Syndrome, don't lose what make the comic good in the first place. I WOULD, however, recommend reading the pro-Hob strips. And the artwork IS quite good. Rant over. Sorry for wasting your time with something only marginally related to the topic. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 1 Joined: 19 Sep 2007 |
Did you read their recent stuff or did you start at the beginning? I don't have the patience to read through all 550+ comments so I don't know if this has been pointed out before, but if you read some of PA's early stuff (Say around 2003-ish) and compare it to CAD (Pick ANY strip) you don't see much of a difference. You have the minimalistic copy-paste art, expressionless faces and overly wordy and badly structured jokes ( example ) Now read some of their strips from the last three or so years. Their art is vastly improved, their jokes are better structured and they are able to do more with less words (often none at all, unless it fits the joke ). Meanwhile, the only evolution CAD seems to have gone through is diving headfirst into Cerebus Syndrome territory . |
Anonymous Source  Posts: 10 Joined: 3 Jul 2008 | I'd just like to say that I only found this site through a web comic, namely GU-comics. And I promptly watched all the episodes before registering to make a reply. Not that it's usually in my nature to post on forums, I'm not registered on any web comic forums for instance. The major difference I feel that's been largely left out in the replys here (not that I read all the replies, 18 pages of the same opinions over and over would make my eyes bleed) is that some web comics serve another purpose than just a comic that's out to cash in on an old cashcow. And just like MGS4 that tried to be something it wasn't, CAD is trying to be a novel of some sorts. Well get over yourself, you were okay when you were just a gaming comic but trying to be a novel online is beyond your reach, tone it down already is what I'd say. And I wont even start on the stickmen "hehe I'll just add some stabbing, it worked for 8-bit" comics... Their stupidity needs no commentary. |
Paperboy Posts: 48 Joined: 28 Nov 2007 | Yahtzee is pretty popular for all of the talk, remember a lot of people are going to check out CAD just because of his bashing. I'd figure with Webcomics any publicity is good publicity. Out there is someone probably crying because Yahtzee didn't directly bash them. :) >>>----Therumancer---> |
Anonymous Source Posts: 3 Joined: 8 Jun 2008 | Least funny of the Zero Punctuation series. Rather boring actually. Yahtzee it appears you are running out of material here. I tune in to listen to witty and insightful comments about the gaming industry (your Popcap and Zach and Wiki review), or to see you highlight something I haven't considered playing, like Painkiller (bought it immediately and love it). Answering your fans' letters was well done. This was not. |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 619 Joined: 8 May 2008     | It's funny how all the CAD lapdogs are kissing Tim Buckleys ass and are angry just because Yatzhee "dissed" their oh-so-precious webcomic. Grow a spine, please. Yatzhee, funny as always and so true. |
Paperboy  Posts: 15 Joined: 3 Jul 2008 | hehe this made me luagh extra hard because me and two of my freinds have this kind of argument all the time. i read penny arcade and think it is the best gaming webcommic and check in and read every issue when it comes out. they are avid CAD readers and think its the bees knees (soz i havnt said that phrase in a long time) so when ever were are together we argue wich is better... but yatzee is right, the whole abortion plot has made them uneasy and unsure now. they only really want the gaming ones. |
Copy Clerk Posts: 86 Joined: 27 Jun 2008 |
Just because it doesn't do anything for you doesn't mean it's bad. It just means it's not your bag baby. Feelin' the groove ain't necessary to know that something is the cat's meow, ya dig? So, what about it is annoying? Quite a few people have pointed out the exact reason we both dislike CAD, and the reason those issues make it terrible. All I ask is that if you're going to make a statement, explain your point and have a real go of it.
It's only unfair if you let that dilike of the person taint your opinion of their work. I dislike both the person AND the work for separate and valid reasons I've already gone into. Others have done the same. I realize it gets hard to see that sometimes, but those of us doing the WALL OF TEXT expositions actually keep the two separate.
Because there aren't established meathods of detirmining the quality of writing beyond ones enjoyment of it. Nooooo, it's all OPINION maaan. If you don't like it, it's what you feeeeeel duuuude, ya know? I hate that argument because it means everything, EVERYZING! is good if people like it. You can like something and it still be bad. Don't worry, we all have guilty pleasures. The main thing is to just be able to admit that you like something that isn't really that good. What is it with you people and having to justify your love of something? Why must it be good and deep and well written to be the object of your affections? Where does it say "If people like it, it's good"? Good grief, a little objectivity here please? |
Anonymous Source  Posts: 5 Joined: 3 Jul 2008 |
No, Dumbass, it means what one person thinks makes good writing is not necessarily the same thing. And, if you'd read what I wrote properly, you would realize as opposed to it being EVERYTHING is subjective, I just feel things like webcomics are more up to personal opinion. Its like this, one critic may say some author is a good author, and his book is written well, but another disagrees and says it was tasteless and done badly. You read the book, and find you enjoy it. Now obviously, since you and the second critic have a difference of opinion, the content which makes something good or worth reading is different for you. So no, people don't necessarily like something DESPITE how bad it is, they actually think its good, because their view of what makes something good is DIFFERENT. |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 514 Joined: 23 May 2008  | Oh, god...when I read you say that everzing is good in someone's opinion, I think I puked a little in my mouth, I've seen enough intar-wubz to know the true horrors available, which can be summed up in the internet rules seen here:http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rules+of+the+internet |
Anonymous Source Posts: 2 Joined: 28 May 2008 | I find web comics in general difficult to stomach. Even the major ones in the gaming circle. Penny Arcade is particularly atrocious as they failed to move beyond humor typically found in the 6th through 8th grades. The granddaddy of the gaming webcomics leans heavily on a stable of four letter words and does little more than pepper them around in an almost perfect transcript of whatever the current event happens to be. Hard hitting, witty, smart and funny are not words that can be used to describe PA. I am surprised they went four strips without a single vulgarity lately, though it is just a shallow copy of Balls of Fury (calling it a shallow version tells you something when the movie was already weak). The rest just get worse. I used to pay attention to User Friendly, being a tech geek and another old-school one, Kevin and Kell, but those two have dramatically dropped in quality. As of late, the only webcomic I can still enjoy on a regular basis is Dr. McNinja. Chris Hastings never stops amazing me with his irreverent plot twists and events that remind me of the good old days of screwball comedies like Airplane! and The Naked Gun. Of course, I tend to blame the Internet on this. There may be good webcomics out in the wild, but they tend to be drowned out by the mountains of poorly written garbage that fills the annals of places like Keenspot. Adding a completely unregulated arena for anyone to cheaply and easily produce their work creates an additional hassle of the discerning consumer to actually find something worth consuming. Of course, if we were to listen to the hundreds of webcomic writers, we apparently owe them our lives to read their work or make one of our own. Apparently we aren't allowed to call something bad and refuse future patronage unless we offer a competing product. Though this is a common problem among any form of media work that turns out to be a dud. |
Paperboy Posts: 31 Joined: 10 Apr 2007  |
So have I. Ctrl-Alt-Del is derivative, but it is nothing compared to the pit of /b/. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 4 Joined: 3 May 2008 | Ahhh, I'm a follower of CAD, but I gotta admit, WTF at the latest storyline. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 5 Joined: 3 Jul 2008 |
Jesus fucking christ, how the hell does "I feel this particular medium is more about opinion than some things" turn into "Evarything iz up 2 opinion DUR"? |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 705 Joined: 19 Dec 2007 |
At least the exposition in the comic you linked to knew its place, and didn't threaten to overwhelm the actual images and drown the characters in a sea of speech bubbles. |
Paperboy  Posts: 37 Joined: 7 May 2008 | *Facepalms* It's his opinion, get over it |
Anonymous Source Posts: 7 Joined: 2 Jul 2008 |
Nah, he'd probably try and sue them for defending him. |
Anonymous Source  Posts: 1 Joined: 3 Jul 2008 | GREATEST. VIDEO. EVER. And not just because of all the insanely uncomfertable similiarities between the review and my Webcomic. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 9 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 | That was great. Tim Buckley should totally stop having balls in his mouth (can't stand CAD anymore since about a year ago. Shit's just not funny). Also Yahtzee, you charismatic stallion, you forgot all about the copy-paste from tile A to tile B while slightly changing the facial expressions! |
Anonymous Source Posts: 4 Joined: 1 May 2008 | everyone keeps saying CAD and that just sounds silly, since to me CAD means computer aided design so i'm a bit lost here, someone tell what you think it stands for so me and my technical terms can go play. |
Anonymous Source  Posts: 3 Joined: 3 Jul 2008 | I think Yahtzee makes a great point and though it does take a shot at a LOT of webcomics, I think it's a necesarry bullet graze to try and make more people aware of the monotone writing and character/plot design that seems to plague most webcomics today. Too often do we see video-game based webcomics that are quick to jump on the latest PA or , no offense, Yahtzee's reviews, and draw up a witty four panel basically saying the same thing we've all heard. As a reader and avid artist, I would appreciate it more if someone went out, actually played the game, much like Yahtzee or the guys behind Penny Arcade, and THEN presented their thoughts. Even if those thoughts are contradictory to popular opinion at least you're being an original writer and not a two-bit hack. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 6900 Joined: 28 Nov 2007     |
Ctrl+Alt+Del, a webcomic. |
Anonymous Source  Posts: 2 Joined: 3 Jul 2008 | Oh the CAD hate is mountainous! While I agree with many of the criticisms of CAD, I find the way in which they are expressed rather... tasteless. What else should I expect from the internets? However, when I came across this shining gem of brilliance:
I was compelled to take the time to register and say my piece and let the feelings of futility swarm upon me as I shout into the blackened void that is anonymous communication via the internet. I know we all want to jump on the Yahtzee bandwagon because he criticized webcomics. In the words of the all-mighty criticizer himself, "That's fine." I have no problem with people criticizing what they don't like. But there is a distinction between your criticisms (the "balls in mouth" comment being a good example) and Yahtzee's. The sound bite version of this distinction is that Yahtzee has class and most of you don't. Notice that Yahtzee never specifically mentions any webcomic or webcomic creator that he is criticizing. Granted, the refereces to CAD are pretty overt but he never personally insults Buckley. I'm not sure if Yahtzee agrees with me (but I'm guessing he does) in that it's impportant to separate a creator from what he creates. Just because what Buckley creates is bad (I certainly believe so) doesn't mean he should be demonized (in the way that anyone we don't like can be demonized on the internet thanks to the aforementioned anonymity.) This brings me to my second and most crucial point: Even if I believed that CAD was the greatest slight against the English language and art ever concocted in the halls of mediocrity, I would still hold Mr. Buckley in a far higher esteem than you lot. I will always praise the person who tries and fails over the mindless masses that ridicule him for his failure. That failure can be taken for what it is and be criticized , such as Yahtzee did with CAD's drama debaucles, but the most wretched people on this Earth are those who engage in such a hypocrisy as to think less of a man for his failures. |
Paperboy Posts: 17 Joined: 27 Apr 2008 | Wowsas, over 600 comments in just over 24 hours - that's gotta be some kind of record. Keep this up and we'll have a mountainous flame/troll/fanboy hybrid/bastard child thread to control THE MASSES :O |
Anonymous Source Posts: 8 Joined: 27 Oct 2007 | Can you show me conclusive evidence that there are, in fact, no ball's in his mouth at this time? |
Anonymous Source Posts: 9 Joined: 2 Jul 2008 | I've been wondering... people tend to get on CAD's case for using a lot of copy/paste set pieces for creating characters. I see a lot of other webcomics do this to greater or lesser extents (and, really, is it substantially different than the pose sheets that traditional comic artists and animators use?). Then I remember that this is on the Zero Punctuation site and, more importantly, Yahtzee himself has made quite a few complaints about how Tim Buckley's art style in his comic has not evolved over the years. With that in mind, does anyone imagine that ZP's art style is going to evolve? It seems to be firmly locked into its deliberately simplistic format. Personally, I think it's brilliant, which I wouldn't say about the style used for CAD (should be noted that Buckley can draw far better than his comic suggests), but suppose this feature is still going strong 5 years from now. I can only wonder when an even more vitriolic upstart will appear to say "Zero Punctuation? It's been the same pill-shaped copy/paste art since day one. How can anyone consider that relevant or laudable?" |
Paperboy Posts: 29 Joined: 19 Jun 2008 |
In fairness, some of the criticism at him has nothing to do with his comic. Much of it comes from the fact he comes across as an egomaniac OUTSIDE of the comic. |
Copy Clerk Posts: 65 Joined: 20 Sep 2007 |
Considering what made Buckley popular was essentially trolling games, I don't think it really is much different than what posters are doing here. Last time I checked Buckley doesn't create the games he seems to enjoy mocking. Sure, he does it with colorful pictures, but it really isn't any different than what is happening here. I'm trying and am succeeding at the things I want to do in life and I choose to mock things I have no desire to do. You're stating the same tired argument that Buckley likes to use: "Lets see you do better." I don't have to be great at something to recognize when something else is bad. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 8 Joined: 27 Oct 2007 | RE: Lord_Seth But that's a big part of the problem; it's almost impossible to seperate artist from creation at this point...especially given the self-insertion of Ethan as Buckley. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 4 Joined: 1 May 2008 |
oh right, well i guess it makes sense, thank you kindly |
Anonymous Source  Posts: 6 Joined: 2 Jul 2008 |
Yea probaly a fair call on PvP I feel it struggles to be a gaming related comic as the story seems to drive it forward more so than any relation to games, although the 'ding level up' and Diablo 3 bits in the last few comics have been amusing for me. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1144 Joined: 23 Oct 2007    | I was going to post something about the existence of Cerebus Syndrome, but I seem to have been beaten to the punch. Oh well. Strangely enough, the night before this ZP feature, I had a dream where I had criticised Ctrl+Alt+Delete (You'll certainly need it!) on another forum that I frequent. It had been a comic which had an even lower standard of grammar and drawing than usual and had something to do with LOLcats (which is a phenomenon which disappoints me, because I'm quite a feline enthusiast). It had been sponsored by another site, a so-called "www.sucko.ass" - please forget the fact that there is no ".ass" top-level domain. When I had criticised it, using liberal use of prior criticism from Yahtzee, I received a phone call from the aforementioned non-existent website. It turned out that they were some of the CAD author's cronies and they had found out my name, which is not available on the public internet. How had they found out? They had broken into my home, and now had the gall to threaten to sue me. What the hell was up with that? That sort of thing is why I don't like dreaming.
User Friendly was never the best in art terms and was quite (read: very) lazy in that respect. However, I did enjoy the subject matter, being the sort of technophile who's never been afraid to go to the terminal window and solve computer problems through a whole load of typing. Having read the criticisms on the site, "Your Webcomic Is Bad And You Should Feel Bad", I agree with the author of that on the artistic side of things, and I can understand exactly why he doesn't enjoy the comic (but hey, you try giving tech support to some people and not want to shove their heads through the windscreen of a moving car). As I said, those webcomics that I have enjoyed tend to leave me believing, "it's crap, but I like it". Which is a terribly poor thing to have to say to yourself to justify enjoying a medium, but oh well.
You've obviously never descended into the Pits of Despair that are the forums of the Fallout fan community, especially Duck and Cover, which takes things to a completely new level of tastelessness. I have managed to claw myself up from them several times with my life intact, but I do not suggest that you attempt the same stunt. It is only suggested for those whose sanity already hangs in the balance. [The RAK Mobile Autonomous Intelligence would like to apologise for the stupidity and insanity of its internet avatar. It is a transient phase, and the system will soon be purged according to schedule.] |
Muckraker  Posts: 296 Joined: 17 Oct 2007   | Sooooo. . . . I was aware he was satiring Ctrl-Alt-Del, but unaware that the "miscarriage" side-story-thing was actually REAL. (i've read maybe one comic from there until now) After the startling realization that this sequence ACTUALLY TOOK PLACE, i am appalled. Seriously WTF? it goes from "harr harr harr you're taking my shift at BB bc my baby is coming" bullshit (not funny but acceptable) to "the girl" crying in bed after a horrible tragedy? Then it hamhandedly tries to return to making "jokes" which just comes off as sarcastic and cold. THAT IS NOT OKAY. I always heard that Tim Buckley was kindof a tool but jesus motherfu |
CAD is for people who want obvious gaming jokes (SPORE HAS PENIS CREATURES XDD).
PA is for people who would prefer slightly less blatant jokes which are still funny (Evolution of programmed character AI in a videogame, for instance).