| (Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4) | |
News Contributor Posts: 223 Joined: 14 Sep 2006     | |
Beat Writer  Posts: 215 Joined: 7 Jun 2008   | I wanted to sympathize, but a voice was whispering "EA... EA..." at me the whole time. I think the joke's on the game companies frankly. Criminals advance AHEAD of law enforcement. So even if PC gaming were to hit the pits, you can bet people would figure out ways to still get all the games they wanted free for free. Whether that means hacking a console, or just figuring out how to transfer game files from a 360 disc to pc, they'd do it. And because it's the internet, mass propagation. I'm not saying it's right, just that I'm indifferent. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 168 Joined: 6 May 2008  | I'm against piracy, the problem is in that trying to combat it developers usually make life much more difficult for the honest consumer rather then the dishonest one, which I do not like. The trick is making piracy such a hassle that it's simply not worth it for the majority of people instead of trying to stamp it out in one fell swoop as corporations such as EA are trying to do, it simply doesn't work and makes it more trouble for someone trying to install a game legitimately. I think Steam is one of the leaders here, it never feels particularly intrusive, yet it has managed to decrease piracy of games it features by quite a bit, simply because it makes piracy more hassle then it's worth, though not to say that piracy isn't a problem for Valve because it is for everyone. Just taking Spore for example, if I remember correctly there was some news a while ago that Spore would also secretly install some anti piracy software on your PC that would always be on in the background. For the honest consumer this is a problem they've bought the game and are having their system resources eaten as a result, whereas any knowledgeable pirate would probably be able to remove such a program in a few minutes. |
Paperboy  Posts: 36 Joined: 2 Apr 2008  | The funny thing, of course, being that piracy has been around at least as long as the gaming industry, and has yet to be blamed for the death of a single format. The question is not one of morality, but of economics. When a good is overpriced, people will prefer the cheaper alternative. And piracy is not free; you still have to buy a gaming PC (expensive) before you can get onto the bandwagon. Meanwhile, some companies (cough, consoles, cough) have found a way to cross-subsidize hardware with software (or, in Nintendo's case, not even), and somehow make money out of the whole deal. I recommend reading up about Brad Wardell, CEO of PC games makers Ironclad. They made Sins of a Solar Empire, sold it online without copy protection, and made money. The piracy argument does not hold. |
Beat Writer Posts: 127 Joined: 26 Jun 2008 | I don't download pirated games (with exception for those that are no longer sold in stores), not saying i am an angel in any way, i download other stuff, but to argue that pirates should be ignored and comparing them to cancer is kind of disgusting. Also he just goes into a rage instead of giving valid arguments which makes it all seem pretty pointless. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 90 Joined: 16 Apr 2008  |
I hate EA. I'm hoping Spore will change my mind, but for now I consider them a bunch of uncreative, corporate demons. But even that doesn't give anyone the right to pirate their work. The concept of being able to try-before-you-buy already exists - it's called RENTING. Furthermore, it doesn't matter how advanced pirates are; what matters is how many people take advantage of their "services." Even if each and every copy of a game that landed in gamers' hands was pirated, it wouldn't be some message to the gaming industry to churn out better games. It'd be a message to increase the price to account for greater security and inevitable piracy. And it won't be just the law abiding gamers who suffer. Eventually no one could afford games and there wouldn't be an industry anymore. If that doomsday prediction doesn't ring true, then this one might: to cut cost, layoff. I don't see that helping anyone either. If anything, you'll see a lot more EAs churning out the same game every year. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 851 Joined: 22 Aug 2006  | Yes, I buy my games, but... You're still being vitriolic, and failing to contribute a whole helluva lot to the debate. Cevat's 20-to-1 figure is inflated, and without hard evidence otherwise, I think he's very far off. Your anecdotal bit about the count of Games torrents is far from "damning". And stating something as an "immutable truth" doesn't actually make it immutable. It just makes you sound silly and baseless. Yes, PC developers are abandoning the PC in droves. Is piracy really the cause of it though? Sure seems like an easy scapegoat. As Skrapt above me mentions, developers have attempted a variety of things in the name of "curbing piracy", but so very few of them have actually stopped pirates, and almost all of them have made life harder on paying customers. Developers have also been keen to tap the burgeoning console market, and have done silly things, like console-to-PC ports where the on-screen instructions still reference the console controller buttons. Who wouldn't want to buy that? It is obvious that the developers cared greatly for their PC audience, and put tenderness and love into each port. That's piracy's fault? Draw me a diagram, please, because I don't follow... Back to the example of the wonderful Crysis, which was programmed to only run optimally on the top 1% of hardware in existence (at time of launch, for the entirety of the oh-so-crucial first few weeks, as discussed in every other article on the current gaming/retail landscape). Artificially restricting your own market, and then complaining that not enough people bought your product? What are you, insane? And to top if off, they've abandoned support on the product for those that DID buy it, promising instead to make it all better, after you buy their next product... Where have I heard that before... OH! Right. When EA decided to stop patching Battlefield 2, in favor of BF2142 development. Funny how I bought BF2, and all of the expansions, and then the developer abandoned me, and I stopped buying that developer's products on that platform. But it is not like we can extrapolate that to the market as a whole, because it is anecdotal, right? Now, I'm all for leaving pirates out of the debate over whether piracy is okay. They've made their decision, and they're not going to be dissuaded either way; I agree with you there. But, you're never going to convince the rest of us to hate pirates: even for paying customers, pirates provide a valuable service. When I start up games, you know what the last thing I want to do is? Put a disc in the tray. Sit through 5 minutes of intro videos and splash screens. Validate with the central server for a singleplayer game. Be denied a reinstall because I did a regular, XP-occasionally-necessary, complete system restore/reinstall. You know what pirates do? They fix those things for me. On the whole, your general premise that piracy is bad, and everyone should stop coming up with paper-thin defenses for why piracy is good... these are all things I basically agree with. You mucked the whole thing up with a pretty shoddy approach to everything else. Editorials may be fair-game for un-based absolutes, but that doesn't make them valid arguments. It just makes them nit-picking-points for your opponents. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 2 Joined: 14 Jul 2008 | Sorry, but I didn't go past the first page. First, stupid analogy. We sympathize with the mugger?. No, sorry, the developer treats US customers as if we were the muggers, and makes unreasonable demands of us, THE ONLY ONES buying the product. And then, you go and give again credibility to a deranged developer who thinks that his very average (and yeah, pretty) game should have sold 60 million copies (since they sold 3 - PC Gamer UK says - and somehow he pulled out of his ass that there were 20 pirated copies for each one sold). A game that, BTW, is still broken and won't be fixed, since they're now working on Warhead. Unbelievable. Warhead will sell 300K copies and they will again cry piracy. You lost me there. Piracy is bad, yes. But justifying developers that blame piracy when their average games don't sell what they expected, and justifying the DRM schemes that make customers NOT buy games is not the way to fix it. Oh, and I buy my games. But I'm tired of things like Bioshock's protection or Mass Effect's protection, that don't let the BUYERS play the game while the PIRATES can play without any problem. Developers and distributors are the ones that are seemingly making everyone want to pirate games. And I'm tired of seeing people defend them whatever they do. What's next?. Every time you play the game you bought you have to make a phone call and they give you the code of the day to authorize an hour of playing?. Leave the pirates alone. They're not going to pay for the games either way, and they don't damage the industry. A game pirated is NOT a game that would have been sold otherwise, and it certainly isn't a stolen game (and no, I won't debate legalese). Sink the suits making these stupid decisions, I say. Now, THAT would be helpful. |
Paperboy  Posts: 13 Joined: 13 Sep 2007 | Geoffrey42 does have a point. I buy games, but often have a pirate copy so I can play the things without constant CD switching. That's not to mention the games that won't run unless they are in the same CD drive that I installed them with. Then there's my older games, for which I've long lost the CD key (or the CD). I don't really want to buy them twice (though I have on occasion, with the really good ones). Anyway, if your argument is that Console games are gaining prevalence because of Piracy, that's a load of bull. The reason they are gaining prevalence is because the console can now handle the same games as a PC, but they are less expensive. That's why I got my XBox 360. If the choice is between buying or building a $1500 machine (the cheapest machine you could run Crysis on was $875 - http://tinyurl.com/2fdjmc) or a $350 one for the same games, you'd have to be stupid not to go for the 360. With Internet-enabled consoles, there is no good reason to stay with the computer for gaming. I get a bigger screen, multiplayer, web downloads and the rest. The best qualities of PC gaming are counteracted by the security measures I have to plow through just to install a single player game. Yea, I miss my mouse and keyboard, but you know what? They ain't worth $500+. If they really think that switching over to consoles is going to stop piracy, they're stupid. The bigger the audience on consoles and the more games, the more hacked, chiped and otherwise modified boxes are going to show up out there. That's not even taking into account the huge trade in used games, which cuts just as much--if not more--into the profit of publishers ( http://tinyurl.com/yq23et ), and, of course, the physical act of loaning someone a game. The real reason developers are switching more and more games to consoles is because there is a bigger audience. Basic math. This is little more then a rant, and a bad one too. Whatever point you had has disappeared in your foul tone and lack of any concrete examples. |
Paperboy Posts: 13 Joined: 13 Sep 2007 | Hey, I know someone with a good counter-argument! You, a few months ago? - http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/3794-Defending-the-Villain You said then (among other things): "If piracy is the mechanism that dissolves these institutions that have become openly hostile, or forces them to adapt to the modern marketplace, I find it very hard to strongly condemn the practice." I'm sort of shocked at such a radical turn around. What caused the change in heart? |
Muckraker  Posts: 265 Joined: 25 Jan 2008 |
If you know anywhere I can rent PC games, by all means, let me know.
QFT. This didn't seem like an article so much as a blog post. The problem with excluding pirates from the debate is that, without talking to them (us), you can only speculate on their motivations. That, apparently, leads to crap like Mass Effect's DRM, which, judging by BioWare's forums, was pretty counter-productive. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1618 Joined: 29 Dec 2007    | Yeah piracy is bad, parasitic, immoral, and flies in the face of what I've learned from Ayn Rand, but that won't stop me from doing it. I don't feel the need to pay someone on ebay for a copy of Fallout2 when the pirate bay has such a lovely selection of free merchandise. Also, if a disk I buy from a store is scratched or in any other way rendered unplayable, is it immoral for me to get a torrent of it? I've already paid for the game, however, due to circumstances outside my control (damn neighbor kids and their twitchy little fingers) I can no longer enjoy what I paid for. I think it is well within my bounds morally, to burn a disc from torrented data. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 217 Joined: 16 Jan 2008 | Sean I agree with you 110%. Great article. Personally I spend my hard-earned money buying PC games as it just feels right to compensate the developers for giving me 10-20+ hours of great entertainment. A common complaint (in australia) is that the RRP of games is too high. While this is true, it's still not an excuse to pirate games. If you look around you can find good deals anywhere, it's just lazy not to. I also find, in my travels, that PC pirates tend to hardly ever play what they download for more than a few hours. It's some sort of twisted hobby like digital stamp collecting, where their epeen grows exponentially with each new "scalp", or title, they manage to get. Software pirates - Yaaaaargh I'm looking at you - you all suck titanic elephant balls. |
Beat Writer Posts: 215 Joined: 7 Jun 2008 |
Are you kidding me? I wouldn't believe it if there wasn't actually a link. Ouch. Who dropped the ball on this one? |
Copy Clerk Posts: 90 Joined: 16 Apr 2008 |
Huh. Well, then... I'm rather interested to hear what caused the change of heart myself. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 70 Joined: 14 Jul 2008  | Great job justifying crime guys. Y'all (pirates and their defenders) are slime. You ARE making horrible points and arguments. "Pirating isn't totally free, they still have to buy the PC." So bank robbery is just fine as long as I purchase a quality gun? I would love to see your upbringing and ask you parents how they think you could possibly pass as a functioning member of society. Say you have some great idea. You make widgets(nothing in particular, just something people want). You spend years crafting the perfect widget, getting the right handle, the right curves and lines, the perfect weight and feel in the hand. You sell your widget for $50 because you think it is worth it. Some people buy it, but somebody else gets one from a friend and starts making moulds of it and giving them away for free. Is this legal? Moral? Ethical? Beneficial in any way AT ALL? Take your excuses for piracy and apply them to the real world for a second. "Your car is to expensive, so I'll steal somebody else's" "I broke my old T.V., I'll just take that one" "No, I will not stop taking your wallet, I paid good money for these sticky gloves and I'll be damned if I don't use them!" Do any of those make sense? Y'all don't deserve to have a voice in any argument. Your opinion is worthless, you points are void, and you have no damn excuse. Stop being cheap and get a job to buy your games, music, and videos like people who are worth something. Until that point, you are spineless cowards who are trying to claim something that ain't yours. GROW A PAIR! |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3975 Joined: 24 Apr 2008     | Not to disagree with the fact that Bile makes everything more entertaining, but i see not one link in that article to any figures or facts. I agree with your stance on piracy, but not how you have tackled the issue. |
Beat Writer Posts: 217 Joined: 16 Jan 2008 | +1 to what you said kiltman. Also, if you (the pirates) cannot afford to purchase a PC game - DON'T PLAY IT. It's common sense no? |
Paperboy Posts: 14 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 | You know, this is a fantastic topic, and one I have mixed feelings about. But one that doesn't need to be discussed these days. Because we already have. See: Plato's The Republic. Especially the whole bit around the Ring of Gyges that comprises a large portion of Book 2. (Starts around 2.359 if you're interested in looking it up, copies are available from Plato proposes that those who practice justice do so involuntarily because they lack the power to be unjust. He introduces the notion of a magical ring who was owned by a guy called, you guessed it, Gyges. Anyway, this ring of his had the power to make the wearer invisible. (Sorta like the One Ring that Frodo had only without the evil glowing eye and the guys in black robes.) This ring gives them the power to, you know, rape, kill, take what they like from the market, at their leisure. Long story short: The internet, in this case, is your Ring of Gyges. You can either use it how Plato suggests and hope that Socrates is wrong, or you can stick to being just and not risk it. Either way, this has already been discussed at length, for around 2,500 years now. Here's a crazy thought: READ A BOOK , and don't bother others with banal arguments from ages past that have already been resolved without your knowing. Disclaimer: I love your website, and I like what you do, but I can't allow your apparent ignorance of western intellectual history go unquestioned while you're writing an informed opinion article on the subject of intellectual property. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 1 Joined: 15 Jul 2008 | videogames, PC and console are expensive. not just in themselves but relative to other entertainment. The cost to make GTA4 is estimated to be in the region of US $100 million and is considered one of the moest expensive video games ever made. The cost of the Dark Knight to make is estimated to be close to $200 million. We all know which would cost more to take home - does that seem like a fair pricing model to you because I've tried getting my gf into gaming numerous times and when provided with an PS/XBOX/Wii she'll pay but neer would she pay for it although i have many times heard her comment ooh i'd like to play...if only it cost less. Anyway all i really wanted to say was i used to download pirated games (including a copy of far cry - turned out it didnt run on my PC). having now stopped pirating games i have pretty much stopped gaming on my PC not even buying titles i would've in my pirating days. If you are interested i stopped pirating partially due to imposed download limits by my ISP and a recognition that its not really fair on the people who worked so hard just to steal their product. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 142 Joined: 15 Jul 2008 | I agree that piracy is damaging the industries (music, movies and games) but i don't beleive it is to the extent it is being made out to be. When it's suits a person, they'll turn to piracy. If I lose my copy of Assassin's Creed when I'm shifting houses, (damn those pesky, thieving removalists), I sure as hell am not going to go down to EB Games and pay eighty bucks for another one. Solution: I download it for free, hassle free. All of that isn't to say piracy never gets used for purposes of evil, don't get me wrong. What I'm trying to say is that coppied media _can_ be used legitimately. Another example is downloading snes roms for games of mine that died in storage that I am not paying $40 to Gametraders for because it's considered classic. (Again, how does this help the industry?) This rant (i won't say article) was unpleasant to read. To say the opinions of pirates and users of pirated media are invalid is immature and stubborn. Last note: love the site and everything in it, even though i disagree with this rant it got people talking and more importantly thinking which is great. |
Paperboy Posts: 14 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 |
I dunno, I bought about 7 copies of Neverwinter Nights or one of it's expansions for the PC because I kept losing one of the 30+ CD keys for one or all of the expansion packs every time I went to reinstall it. So maybe, if they can keep me buying 7 copies for every copy I may have pirated as a result of annoyance with their cumbersome copyright protection, this whole thing can turn out to be profitable. I've never pirated a game in my life, but if I lose another copy of Neverwinter Nights the next one will be downloaded. I think I've earned it. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2111 Joined: 4 Nov 2007   | I was kinda disappointed by this article. I would have thought someone who was above the pirates' line would be above the industry's line, too. Here's some anecdotes and some truths. PS: Last part of the second link's article: Blaming piracy is easy. But it hides other underlying causes. When Sins popped up as the #1 best selling game at retail a couple weeks ago, a game that has no copy protect whatsoever, that should tell you that piracy is not the primary issue. In the end, the pirates hurt themselves. PC game developers will either slowly migrate to making games that cater to the people who buy PC games or they'll move to platforms where people are more inclined to buy games. In the meantime, if you want to make profitable PC games, I'd recommend focusing more effort on satisfying the people willing to spend money on your product and less effort on making what others perceive as hot. But then again, I don't romanticize PC game development. I just want to play cool games and make a profit on games that I work on." |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 67 Joined: 2 Feb 2008  | I don't pirate games, I have downloaded the occasional CD key to replace the legit ones I have lost. The developer already has my money for the game, surely they can't expect me to buy the game again? This is after going through the tedious customer support process of proof of purchase photos. In the end, they never got back to me, I was sitting with a uselessly legitimate copy of the game while the developer who I had supported with my hard-earned cash had left me. As stated several times in these comments, Anti-Piracy measures are only hurting the consumers. Pirates have the know-how to get around all the code they put in place that makes my game run slower or blocks me from reinstalling. As a side-note; I'm aware that 'casual' games are among the most pirated out there. Personally I don't give a crap. No effort is given as they make the same game over and over again, so why should cash people spend several hours earning go to waste? |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 79 Joined: 15 Jul 2008    | ok, ill try to keep this reasonably short... first off i was quite appaled by ths article, i dont mind valid arguments, for or against, pirates, but this isnt a valid argument, u have brought shame to the escapist! all im gonna say is, read the recent article in Total PC gaming, and i also recall Bioware saying(somethin along these lines) 'the best way is to make quality games that ppl feel are worth buying' and i agree totally with that i have torrented a few games in my time, but never any i have really enjoyed, or i would have paid for them, and someone meantioned Valve made somethin to stop pirate thingys, personnaly i think they dont need one cause there games are pure awesome! i would never torrent a game of that standard, i would have paid £100 for the Orange Box... But to finish, some pirates are morally wrong, they dont pay for anythin, but it doesnt mean we are all like that, so dont label us, dont rant (only i can do that :P) and put up with it, all this rant did was lower what everyone thought of u... |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 851 Joined: 22 Aug 2006 |
Nobody justified crime (yet). The above quote is barely a "defense" of piracy. It was a pure statement that pirates don't do what they do for free, unless they also steal the hardware, but I doubt it. This does not make the piracy "okay", it just means it is not "free". Widgets? Did anyone make a statement indicating this was okay? Is this in response to anyone, or are you just having a reflex reaction to the subject of "piracy"? PLUS: Moulds and widgets and the supplies to produce additional copies cost money. Most IP pirates engage in what they do because it has no additional noticeable cost to them. The pirates that do what you're talking about? They put bounties on DVD-sniffing dogs in Malaysia, and nobody has ever tried to defend them... Go home and play with your straw-man by yourself. No, your lunatic fringe statements don't make any sense. Which conversation are you in? I'm sorry... who are you talking to? The one "quote" you seem to have honed in on is barely identifiable as a "defense" of piracy, yet you go on for paragraphs pretending we're all defending piracy? |
Sink The Pirates
Some gamers are of the opinion that piracy is not only justified, but that it's beneficial to the industry. Sean Sands thinks these people are morons and explains how you, without realizing it, have been helping them.
Read Full Article