CliffyB Doesn't Like MGS4

Epic Games lead designer Cliff "Don't Call Me CliffyB" Bleszinski has launched a broadside at Metal Gear Solid 4, calling it "passive entertainment" that's on the way out.

"We're going from the bowels of the Earth to the highest peaks of Sera, producing those beautiful environmental money shots," Bleszinski said in a short Gears of War 2 interview with IGN. "We want to create places where you'd want to make your home, and sip coffee in the morning."

"We wanted a blockbuster pace, and in doing so, we lost the story a bit. So that's one of the lessons we learned," he said, talking about taking the experiences of the original Gears of War into the sequel. "This time around there's more repetition. Games aren't movies and aren't consumed in a single sitting. So secondary characters will remind you about stuff, which is pre-established in plot clues."

"Metal Gear Solid is our example of the game we're not doing," he added. "Passive entertainment is on its way out - you need to hook up with this web 2.0 stuff."

Released in June, Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots was well-received by critics and fans alike but raised some eyebrows over the length of its cutscenes; one reviewer described the length of time between starting a new game and engaging the first enemy as "23 cocking minutes."

Gears of Wars 2 is currently in development for the Xbox 360 and is slated for release in November.

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It may be on the way out but that doesn't mean there isn't a market for it.

Says the guy who couldn't create a good character to save his life...

Not that he isn't correct, this sort of passive thing needs to be phased out, but not at the overall expense of story and narrative, and Gears of War is NOT a good example of strong narrative. This strikes me as very much a Itagaki statement, something to stir up controversy and let him feel important.

Mostly though, I just don't like people who make statements like this.

This is like listening to the pot calling the kettle black. Both games are alternately ridiculous and enjoyable.

Oh my goodness. An executive with an opinion.

It's commendable that he feels able to talk openly, but these guys always sabotage themselves by sounding like used car salesmen.

It would be nice if one of them grew the balls to admit their own mistakes rather than talk down others too, maybe that's too much to hope for.

fix-the-spade:
Oh my goodness. An executive with an opinion.

It's commendable that he feels able to talk openly, but these guys always sabotage themselves by sounding like used car salesmen.

It would be nice if one of them grew the balls to admit their own mistakes rather than talk down others too, maybe that's too much to hope for.

You mean like;

"We wanted a blockbuster pace, and in doing so, we lost the story a bit. So that's one of the lessons we learned," he said

Breaking news somebody doesn't like MGS4. Sorry but how is this news?

Frapple:

fix-the-spade:
It would be nice if one of them grew the balls to admit their own mistakes rather than talk down others too, maybe that's too much to hope for.

You mean like;

"We wanted a blockbuster pace, and in doing so, we lost the story a bit. So that's one of the lessons we learned," he said

Thanks for picking that up... I was going to mention it myself.

Personally, I'm neither a Cliffy-fan nor a Cliffy-hater but what I do like about the guy is that he's willing to take the hits (and acknowledge them) as well as dish them out. He's been frank about what was missing in Gears, which has me hoping those gaps will be filled when Gears 2 comes out.

-- Steve

I'm not exactly sure what Cliffy doesn't like about MGS4.

He can say whatever he wants about MGS4 after he's played the game, and i certainly hope he actually played the game instead of asusming that MGS4 is Passive entertainment because it takes 23 minutes from pressing new game to the first enemy.

Really I do not know why he said what he said there was no need for it. What is worse is that if it wass Itagaki that said something like that it would be less of a problem because he could at least say that one of his games is at the top when it comes to combat systems. Cliffy cannot say the same about Gears. I mean honestly at least Kojima knows how to make a woman actually look like a woman unlike the people at Epic.

I wonder if Kojima now regrets praising Gears of War in a previous interview?

I'd expect that sort of comment from a guy who looks like he's constantly mainlining caffiene. However he does have a good point and I agree with him on this one. That said GoW isn't known for its scintillating storytelling.

Maybe the reason more games don't have long cutscenes is because most game's plots are shit. If Gears of War had 30 minute cutscenes, I wouldn't play it. No one played Gears of War for the plot.

Despite all the bellyaching and whining about the cutscenes, the MGS series continues to be amazingly popular. Despite all convential wisdom that "gamers have short attention spans" and cracks about "passive entertainment." When I played Gears of War I don't remember any clever gameplay mechanics like hiding from your enemies in a cardboard box or detecting infrared tripwires with cigarette smoke.

Grampy_bone:
Maybe the reason more games don't have long cutscenes is because most game's plots are shit. If Gears of War had 30 minute cutscenes, I wouldn't play it. No one played Gears of War for the plot.

Despite all the bellyaching and whining about the cutscenes, the MGS series continues to be amazingly popular. Despite all convential wisdom that "gamers have short attention spans" and cracks about "passive entertainment." When I played Gears of War I don't remember any clever gameplay mechanics like hiding from your enemies in a cardboard box or detecting infrared tripwires with cigarette smoke.

That's because Gears of War is not a stealth game.

The most despicable thing about this bastard insulting the MGS series...is that unfortunately he's sort of right.

thebobmaster:

Grampy_bone:
Maybe the reason more games don't have long cutscenes is because most game's plots are shit. If Gears of War had 30 minute cutscenes, I wouldn't play it. No one played Gears of War for the plot.

Despite all the bellyaching and whining about the cutscenes, the MGS series continues to be amazingly popular. Despite all convential wisdom that "gamers have short attention spans" and cracks about "passive entertainment." When I played Gears of War I don't remember any clever gameplay mechanics like hiding from your enemies in a cardboard box or detecting infrared tripwires with cigarette smoke.

That's because Gears of War is not a stealth game.

That's not the point (i think) he's trying to get across.

What he's saying is that the MGS series brought many new things to the table, it doesn't matter if it's a stealth game, it still brought something new.

GoW however basically brought one thing that i can think of which is the cover system and i'm not sure why exactly everyone was so amazed by it but cudos to them. Everything else was seen in pretty much every other shooter before it. Granted i've never played GoW to a great extent (2 or 3 plays, but i wanted to play more) so excuse this if it seems biased.

And a stealth game doesn't have to be the only genre that has a good story with nice cutscenes.

BUt htat's just me speaking for him, so argue to him not me.

Jumplion:
GoW however basically brought one thing that i can think of which is the cover system and i'm not sure why exactly everyone was so amazed by it but cudos to them. Everything else was seen in pretty much every other shooter before it.

It did have Active Reload, which is a quite novel mechanic in shooters; a timed event that allows players to try to shorten the reload cycle at the risk of lengthening it if the player blows the timing. Some games have allowed this (inadvertently) by animation interruption by some abtruse control input sequence, but Gears codified that into a truly fair mechanic.

-- Steve

Anton P. Nym:

Jumplion:
GoW however basically brought one thing that i can think of which is the cover system and i'm not sure why exactly everyone was so amazed by it but cudos to them. Everything else was seen in pretty much every other shooter before it.

It did have Active Reload, which is a quite novel mechanic in shooters; a timed event that allows players to try to shorten the reload cycle at the risk of lengthening it if the player blows the timing. Some games have allowed this (inadvertently) by animation interruption by some abtruse control input sequence, but Gears codified that into a truly fair mechanic.

-- Steve

Oh yeah, i remember that. Didn't think to much of it when i actually did play the game, but i never found out how to do it anyway.

Jumplion:

Anton P. Nym:

Jumplion:
GoW however basically brought one thing that i can think of which is the cover system and i'm not sure why exactly everyone was so amazed by it but cudos to them. Everything else was seen in pretty much every other shooter before it.

It did have Active Reload, which is a quite novel mechanic in shooters; a timed event that allows players to try to shorten the reload cycle at the risk of lengthening it if the player blows the timing. Some games have allowed this (inadvertently) by animation interruption by some abtruse control input sequence, but Gears codified that into a truly fair mechanic.

-- Steve

Oh yeah, i remember that. Didn't think to much of it when i actually did play the game, but i never found out how to do it anyway.

Play GoW with its active reload and then jump to another FPS or TPS. I swear you will soon sing the praises of it. It doesn't set the world on fire but it is a very welcome addition in the heat of battle. It is awesome to nail it and watch Marcus quickly slam a magazine into the Lancer, toss it from one hand to the other and promptly return fire while exclaiming "Nice!" It is equally nerve-wracking when you screw it up and he tries to jam a fumbled round into the breach of the sniper rifle, yelling an exasperated "Aww come on!" as locust soldiers zero in on your location.

Epic seems to have alot of hate for other gaming companies, i do recall he described the Wii as a "Weird Virus," in that people see it, buy it, and never play it again? I mean, i play Okami a whole lot. . . Why not just promote their own games and STFU?

They should take notes from Valve on conduct.

EDIT/PS: I actually think really long cutscenes are fucking stupid, but wtvr.

The guy didn't say that he does not like MGS4, he said that he is not making a game like MGS4.

Big difference.

Fire Daemon:
The guy didn't say that he does not like MGS4, he said that he is not making a game like MGS4.

Big difference.

At this point no one's sure what he said.

I think the headline completely misses the main point of the article, he's simply mentioning an area where he felt the first game failed and how he intends to improve on it.
He's not saying MGS4 is bad just that a lot of MGS4 is passive entertainment, which it is, it still gave me more hours of entertainment than GoW ever did. He didn't say he thought GoW or GoW2 would be better than MGS4....

Man what an arrogant twat. Who cares if he doesn't like Metal Gear; as a developer he should at least show some respect. HIS game had as much depth as a clogged sink.

yzzlthtz:
Man what an arrogant twat. Who cares if he doesn't like Metal Gear; as a developer he should at least show some respect. HIS game had as much depth as a clogged sink.

Did you read the article, or the headline?

I think the idea that CliffyB is trying to say here is that he wants to go in another direction than MGS cause they were story and sneaking heavy, whereas GoW is obviously a run and gun game. People have different play styles and at the moment, the run and gun way seems to be working out better for most, and the fast reload system and cover system introduced in GoW aids with that. Just as much as I love sneaking and espionage games, I have friends who prefer the run and gun method and we both thoroughly enjoy just about every FPS game we've played. The only part that I found to be bothersome about the idea of GoW2 was the sentence:

This time around there's more repetition.

This could lead to the game seeming melancholy and in need of a decent plot.

PedroSteckecilo:
This strikes me as very much a Itagaki statement, something to stir up controversy and let him feel important.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

Gears of War brought in the cover system???

Never got my head around that on cause it has been in many games before it, (and used just as well), Kill.Switch and Syphon Filter Dark Mirror spring to mind to name but 2...

thebobmaster:

yzzlthtz:
Man what an arrogant twat. Who cares if he doesn't like Metal Gear; as a developer he should at least show some respect. HIS game had as much depth as a clogged sink.

Did you read the article, or the headline?

uh, yeah the whole article read it. his quotes are strung together jargon and catch phrases. he pinned mgs4 like it's now some common flop of a game. "games are not movies". such a shallow and boring judgment that, while it has some merits in the current arena, completely fails to really communicate anything or accomplish anything in terms of game development. i mean come on, gears of war? it's a fun shooter. with a mostly dull story and poor acting and dialog slopped over it. that's what we should expect and probably will get from gears of war 2. this arrogant stab at mgs4 accomplishes nothing other than encouraging smug smiling and nodding and 'wot wots' from the "i know what makes a game good" crowd.
web 2.0? such a mistaken label for any gears of war game. the future of cutting edge gaming will surely have its streamlined shooters, but web 2.0 refers to a completely new level of interactivity merged with the app itself, like Spore or Little Big Planet.

he mad that he cant make gears of war look as good as MGS4. 360 doesnt have the power for it.
He should make it for the ps3 it would look better

I burst out laughing at this. Seriously, people make the mistake of thinking MGS4 seperate's Story and gameplay. But they miss the point. The gameplay and story go hand in hand. Honestly, if you skipped all the cutscenes in MGS3, the ending fight with the boss would mean NOTHING to you. However for those of us that did, it meant so much more than simply pressing buttons. The same goes for MGS4. If you had skipped the cutscenes, the ending fight against Liquid would have been another fight. But the fact that the ***SPOILER*** harder you hit him, the more the ocelot in him came back,***END SPOILER*** was so epic for those of us that knew the story by heart.
Metal Gear Solid 4 is NOT passive entertainment.
Honestly, I don't take this guy seriously at all. I feel like he is taking a jab at a cult hit game simply to get a Zero Punctuation affect. Honestly if he feels like hes a big shot because he is too good to enjoy a game, then screw him. If you truly like Metal Gear Solid 4, then anything this idiot says means nothing.
Also, Metal Gear Solid is NOT a series for people that have ADD.

[sarcasm]Yes, because obviously graphics are the be all end all holy grail of gaming right bib?[/sarcasm]

Also, you may want to look into capitalization and punctuation, might do you some good.

I have to agree with Cliffy in all honesty. MGS has been suffering from overdoing its cutscenes and MGS4 has definitely taken that over the top. I want to play a game, not watch a damn movie. If Kojima wants to make a MGS movie that bad, maybe he should pull an Advent Children and just make a damned CGI movie.

TOGSolid:
[sarcasm]Yes, because obviously graphics are the be all end all holy grail of gaming right bib?[/sarcasm]

Also, you may want to look into capitalization and punctuation, might do you some good.

I have to agree with Cliffy in all honesty. MGS has been suffering from overdoing its cutscenes and MGS4 has definitely taken that over the top. I want to play a game, not watch a damn movie. If Kojima wants to make a MGS movie that bad, maybe he should pull an Advent Children and just make a damned CGI movie.

Then don't play it. I don't see anyone forcing you to play it. It isn't a movie, and you miss the point of the cutscenes. The cutscenes give extra meaning to the gameplay. If you want to play a game, go play a game. Please do point to the person holding a gun to your head forcing you to "Watch a movie".
We that enjoy MGS4 enjoy it. We could care less if you see it as a movie. That's your ignorance.
Go play your ADD friendly gears of war.
Honestly I don't see why the hell someone is saying a game that obviously has a dedicated fan base is going "obselete".
And I do not see the point is saying that he isn't making the same kind of game. NO FUCKING SHIT?

Wow... one guy says that mgs4 is "passive entertainment" and everybody is on him, but when yahtzee disses the game for 5 minutes, nobody harldy cares.