News Room Contributor Posts: 4926 Joined: 12 Nov 2002 | |
News Room Contributor Posts: 4808 Joined: 13 Feb 2008 | So the Government is trying to make useless legislation to deal with an issue the public have known about for thirty odd years, and in doing so, exaggerates and blocks the real issue. Nothing new there then. |
Paperboy Posts: 15 Joined: 14 Aug 2008 | Yet another attempt to point the finger at anyone but parents. At the end of the day, it's the parents, not the church, government, friends, etc. that determine what a child should be exposed to. I fully understand parents cannot always control such things. On the other hand, I fully believe they can control a great deal of the media input into their own kids, if they choose to do so. |
Muckraker Posts: 344 Joined: 7 Jan 2008 | Why's there an image of Max Payne 2's Mona Sax? Although she's a bit "femme fatale"-ish, she's one of the least sexist characters i can think of (right before Alyx Vance, although it's a bit arkward how much she likes a mute guy who does not do much more than kill lots of aliens...) |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1471 Joined: 28 Jun 2008 |
It already cheeses me off how long our government takes to come to very obvious conclusions. It cheeses me off even more when they don't really do anything about it. |
Beat Writer Posts: 224 Joined: 7 Jun 2008 | Kids games can be sexist. All the docile herbivores being female, or anthropomorphic female animals having exaggerated proportions. |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 729 Joined: 19 Dec 2007 | Tell you what, entertainment industry. I won't complain about you causing people to harp on about sexism in games, movies and on TV (By which they mean "ZOMG EXPLOITED WOMEN"), if you make male characters who aren't either Homer Simpson, camp, pussywhipped or arseholes. Edited to include two more stereotypes. Can't think of others at the minute. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1057 Joined: 7 Nov 2007 | Why is there a picture of Mona, she is what some feminist "wacko" would describe as independant and she kills more males than any of the unhelpful npc's *Looks at mike the cowboy* |
Infamous Scribbler Posts: 527 Joined: 9 Oct 2007 | And people say that American politicians are ignorant when it comes to video games... |
Paperboy Posts: 12 Joined: 3 Sep 2008 | To Put It Simply, They Might Aswell Try To Remove My Balls, As Its Just Wont Happen, As If Its Teaching The Wrong Lesson At An Age Where It Is Easy To Learn, they Could Just Hike Up Security On Selling Games To Underage Kids, As All Games With Sexism Are Usually A 15 Or Above. |
Paperboy Posts: 18 Joined: 18 Jun 2008 | Strange. I always though that politicians like people who are easy to manipulate, mold into brain dead zombies which will ,on the other side, ensure many happy years of ruling for them and their corruption scams. Nevertheless, every parent who allows his children to make some real life attitudes from video games - must be check up by a specialist or, at least, join a political party (where blatant incompetence is almost always heavily rewarded). |
News Room Contributor Posts: 4926 Joined: 12 Nov 2002 | It is extremely difficult to read your posts when you begin every word with a capital letter. I referenced Mona specifically because she's one of the finest examples of a "non-sexist" representation of women (whatever that's actually supposed to mean) I've ever seen, not just in videogames but in any medium you care to name. Mona was Max's equal, and never once did she take a back seat to him in that regard, nor was she ever given the "not bad for a girl" treatment. I'm all for keeping chicks barefoot and pregnant, but I thought the portrayal of Mona was absolutely stellar and long overdue. I don't know if the videogame industry is any better in its treatment of women than any other form of entertainment, but I sure as hell do know it's no worse. Centering it out for attention like this is absolutely unjustified. |
Copy Clerk Posts: 69 Joined: 22 Aug 2007 | Oh What Will Happen To Duke Nukem!!! |
Web Developer Posts: 237 Joined: 6 Jun 2007 | Personally I want to see this headline follow: "Videogame industry calls for an end to Parliamentary sexism" There's over 750 members of the EU Parliament, and about 50 are women. |
Infamous Scribbler Posts: 565 Joined: 27 Aug 2008 |
I would laugh 'till I cry. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1829 Joined: 14 Nov 2007 |
Woah, let's not jump the shark here. She's a good character, but I wouldn't go so far as to call her one of the best examples of non-sexist portrayal in modern culture. While she has depth and all, she's still for all intents and purposes a male fantasy stereotype- a seductive, sexy femme fatale with a penchant for guns. Compared to other videogame characters, she could be a Germaine Greer creation, true, but she's no Ellen Ripley.
I have to disagree here. True, videogames aren't really any worse than the trash that Hollywood keeps shovelling out in regards to sexism, but that isn't the problem. The problem is that while Hollywood has also created dozens of iconic pro-feminism characters, most gamers would struggle to think of 10 strong female characters out of thousands of games. You've got Alyx Vance, Mona Sax, Jade from Beyond Good and Evil, Bastila Shan... who else? Lara Croft sells more on sex appeal than anything else. Samus from Metroid is female, but she isn't exactly a paragon of anti-sexism. In fact, she isn't much of anything. The player character from Portal is a woman, but like Gordon Freeman, she's also a voiceless entity whose sole purpose is to create a window through which the player can experience the game. Then there are the characters like Princess Peach and Zelda, who exist solely to be rescued by their male counterparts. And the less said about Fat Princess, the better. If we really want the EU to not start breathing down our gaming necks, then we need to prove that their worries are unfounded. What do you expect them to think when they look at something like Soul Calibur? We need to introduce more female characters who have depth, motivation, and who aren't just supermodels in lingerie. We haven't yet created a game comparable to something like In A League Of Their Own or Alien in terms of woman holding their own against men. That's where we need to go if we want to prove the EU's fears unfounded. |
Infamous Scribbler Posts: 527 Joined: 9 Oct 2007 |
Think about how many male video game characters aren't simply reduced to grunt-grunt, "I like violence" caveman characterizations or are simply one-dimensional characters. Could you name many males who aren't like this? Mario? He's just a one-dimensional plumber. Not a strong character at all. Master Chief? He is reduced down to "HUR DURF I MUST KILL DA ALIENS". No depth at all. Marcus Fenix? He is a perfect characterization of men as all being stupid cavemen. How about those guys from Army of Two? Stereotypes all men as violent loving immature jerks. Males get just as much unfair characterizations and sexism leveled their way in video games as females do. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1829 Joined: 14 Nov 2007 |
I never said men weren't unfairly portrayed. I was responding to Malygris' comment about the treatment of women in games, which I'm sure you'll agree has been pretty abysmal thus far. At least the characters you mentioned, horribly cliched as they are, are reasonably pro-active. Last I saw, Master Chief wasn't getting force fed cake by scurrisome little grunts. |
News Room Contributor Posts: 4808 Joined: 13 Feb 2008 |
Tell you what Jeffers, you list 50 female movie stars (still alive), I'll list 50 female game stars(proactive) and Malagrys can name 50 real life females(famous for reasons other than looks) and we'll see who fails first? Sound fair? |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 846 Joined: 8 Jul 2008 | *MYAAAWWWN* Nothing new here, what games are they letting their kids play if it involves mistreatment of women anyway? Hmmm, they're not letting them play GTA are they? Parents need to tell their kids this stuff instead of letting them learn it through video games. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2990 Joined: 21 Jan 2008 |
Exactly my point. Practically all other forms of entertainment are sexist, yet its video games that gets out in the spotlight. How about you deal with the problem at large instead of picking on video games, huh? PS: I'm not trying to say that video games aren't sexist, but that its bullshit that they say only video games portray women in a sexist manner. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1859 Joined: 13 Feb 2008 | Ok, so what people are saying is that both genders are portrayed poorly in videogames. News this ain't. Crap. I just said ain't. |
Infamous Scribbler Posts: 683 Joined: 20 Aug 2008 | Just one more reason why we can't take Europe too seriously. Articles like this make me wave a flag and shout God Bless America, where video games are only in the news for as much time as it takes some airheaded teen celebrity to get knocked up and take all the soccer moms' minds off Grand Theft Auto and put them to worrying about whether they should be dressing their teen daughters like nuns. |
Copy Clerk Posts: 79 Joined: 6 Dec 2007 |
I'll let it slide, but you might be sterotyping somebody, so an apology to the nation is necessary. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2957 Joined: 20 Dec 2007 | Japan won't like this. |
Press Junketeer Posts: 406 Joined: 12 Jul 2008 |
They'll feel bad for about two minutes, then get over it. I wouldn't worry too much. Although they seem to be getting a lot of mixed messeages from the West. |
Infamous Scribbler Posts: 562 Joined: 6 Jul 2008 |
What the hell does your mom put in your cereal every morning? |
News Room Contributor Posts: 4926 Joined: 12 Nov 2002 |
All this time and I never knew you were a chick. Here's a heads-up: Max is a male fantasy stereotype too. A different kind of stereotype, sure, but the net result is the same thing. Max is vengeance, Max is justice, Max is the unbending blade of payback we all wish we could (and never will) be. Maybe we don't want to get in his pants, but we sure wish we could wear them. (Except for the whole butchered family/empty existence/descent into the abyss thing, I suppose.) If you want to argue that Mona isn't as well fleshed-out as Ripley - and I would disagree on that point, but let's not get into that - then I might be willing to roll with it except that we are, after all, talking about games. My point about Mona standing out in any medium isn't that she was as deep as characters in books or movies, but that she very clearly operates on the same level as Max or any other male, with no conditions attached.
The first motion picture was made 120 years ago. Movies with sound have been around for over 80 years. In a direct apples-to-apples comparison, which is what you appear to be making, I would certainly hope that Hollywood has cranked out a few more identifiable strong female characters than the game industry. But on balance, don't you think the game industry is ahead? Which of course has as much to do with shifting societal attitudes as anything else, but I'd be quite happy to put our record against theirs. And why do we need to "prove the EU's fears unfounded" anyway? If the EU parliament had any serious interest in addressing sexist roles in the media, it would address those mediums where it really is a problem. Did they say anything about maybe asking hip-hop types to tone down the whole "bitches and hoes" thing or whatever it is they're on about these days? No. This was a scattershot drive-by at the expense of the videogame industry, and I really don't think we need to dignify it with anything more than a yawn and perhaps an extended finger. (You can pick which one.) Also, you forgot Cate Archer in your list. I'm very disappointed in you. |
Infamous Scribbler Posts: 527 Joined: 9 Oct 2007 |
That's not really a fair comparison. Master Chief is an actual character in the game you control while the princess in Fat Princess is simply a gameplay device. A more suitable comparison would be..say..the VIP you have to rescue in a gametype of Team Fortress Classic. He also must have been a truly sexist stereotype of all men being helpless and needing to be rescued/lead around. |
Copy Clerk Posts: 79 Joined: 17 Aug 2008 | Call me crazy, but wouldn't changing the way females act in games in fact be sexist since you're changing the way a person acts based soley on gender? Anyway, I'm suprised the politicians couldn't find anything more sexist than games. As pointed out, the games with some sexism is for older players while just about every commercial blatently symbolizes that this product will get you laid TONIGHT. |
Paperboy Posts: 13 Joined: 20 Jan 2008 |
Ah, I see. Sexism is good as long as it is for older players. Anyway, the argument that this is singling out the game industry is pretty weak. Sure, they did not mention other media this time around, but TV and movies have gotten their share of flack over this for years, and I for one think this have changed them slightly for the better. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2990 Joined: 21 Jan 2008 |
I don't think that anyone's saying that, just because other types of entertainment (movies) are doing it, video games should be allowed. People are pissed are that this not only singles out gaming, but says that the issue needs to be addressed because
In essence, they still think that all video games are still for little children. |
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European Parliament Calls For An End To Videogame Sexism
The Parliament of the European Union has called for an end to sexism in videogames over concerns that such games are teaching children the wrong lessons.
Parliament adopted a text called "How Marketing and Advertising Affect Equality Between Men and Woman" on September 3, according to Edge Online, which said that while the report focused on conventional marketing, it also mentioned a "particular need" to eliminate sexism in videogames because of their impact on children. "Children learn by imitation and mimic what they have just experienced," the document said, adding that the presence of sexist messages in games "accentuates the perception that a person's gender dictates what is possible" in life.
While it would be tricky to deny that sexism exists in videogames, the basis of this argument seems to be the ongoing, and incorrect, assumption that videogames are for kids. Unless I'm missing something here, I don't think most age-appropriate videogames for impressionable young kids have a whole lot of sexism going on; the games I play might, but I'm pretty well set in my ways at this point. And while advertising is an obvious culprit, why were videogames centered out as the medium most desperately in need of a sexist house cleaning? Where do television, movies and music fit into this?
Fortunately, the adoption of the text is not legally binding, meaning the whole thing can be filed under "sound and fury signifying nothing more than uninformed political maneuvering." Unfortunately, it's also further evidence that despite the many advances made by videogaming in the cultural zeitgeist, there's still an awful lot of work left to be done.
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