Well we don't actually know if Master Chief is a Bloke or Girl yet do we?
Anyway, Resident Evil games, there's Jill Valentine and Claire Redfield. But there's always a reason, not being sexist but what woman (Unless theyr a heartless ninja babe) would kill someone without a second thought?
But apparently the Desighners are sexist because they make every man a muscle bound sex god, and every girl a afraid little babe who fires off perfect shots whenever she's attacked, OR she's completly useless and sit's there screaming "HELP ME JACK!!!" Or something to that effect. But also the scientists from half life 1 are basicly the girls I've just described.
LusikkaMage: I find it funny that this thread is a bunch of guys arguing about why girls don't play video games. :P Instead of posting on a forum, go ask a "normal girl" from school, if they don't play video games they're not likely to be on a message board like escapist
That series was hella-fun. Always crashed on my PC though, darned thing.
LusikkaMage: I find it funny that this thread is a bunch of guys arguing about why girls don't play video games. :P Instead of posting on a forum, go ask a "normal girl" from school, if they don't play video games they're not likely to be on a message board like escapist
Yea, that wouldn't help me kill the time at work while waiting for more tickets! = )
On the few games with a female role I normally end up hating my character. They always seem to wear over-kinky outfits and have annoying voices.
Theres something I like about having a character thats nothing like me, more like a puppet. However I wouldn't mind having choice on more games whether to be a male or female character.
Well, yeah, but that's normally because game developers don't know girls. Imagine taking someone from the Soul Calibur team and tell them "Your new character must wear full-body clothing that is not skin-tight. In fact, we already have a model mostly built. Now, make her seem sexy to the player." "What? How? But you already modeled her..." "I mean through things OTHER than visuals." "......Like constantly begging the player for sex?????" "You're fired."
Katana314: Well, yeah, but that's normally because game developers don't know girls. Imagine taking someone from the Soul Calibur team and tell them "Your new character must wear full-body clothing that is not skin-tight. In fact, we already have a model mostly built. Now, make her seem sexy to the player." "What? How? But you already modeled her..." "I mean through things OTHER than visuals." "......Like constantly begging the player for sex?????" "You're fired."
I don't think the soul calibur people have any idea how to get a handle on sexy. The more advanced the tech gets, the bigger the racks. Check any of the female characters in soul edge, fast forward four games and a couple console generations, and then take a look at that same character from Soul Calibur 4.
It's odd really, I was having this same conversation with some friends because someone I know is playing Ninja Gaiden Black and tried to describe for us how ridiculously .... adorned? Rachel is. The odd thing is I don't necessarily think the swelling racks are more sexy, just more suggestive.
Part of the problem with female characterization is something hinted at by some of the above posts. Socially speaking, a woman can't win, if she's "though" she's unfeminine and unappealing. Or a bitch. If she's anything else, she is not taken seriously. These gendered expectations of behavior are, more or less, unconcious social constructs, nobody *intends* to use them as the double standards, but that's precisly their effective function.
Fundamentally, while game designers are at fault for having a shallow view of female characters, the true culprit, as is usual with any variant of media, is not the messenger, but rather the source of the message, that is, society.
Nonetheless, it is useful to point out these faults if for no other reason than to raise an awareness of the issue so that people can maybe do something about it, if nothing else, individually.
I think the thread has gone on and off the tracks so let me make it easier. How come in video games it's harder to find a game where you play as a female for the main character or at least have the option for male or female(expections of MMORPG's). My friend thinks that in wars and fighting the women would not be as strong as guys to live through it. I said to him that's bullshit because they can still shoot a gun and they can still know karate like a guy would. So why aren't game developers more into having a women in normal clothes be invouled as the main character?
Thing is, it has to fit with the persona. If you're going to kill at least 20 people in the course of the game, it pretty much has to be male. Otherwise it'll just seem completely off, and that has happened. (Tomb Raider Legend, Heavenly SwordS) Since most games involve killing...yeah, that's pretty much the scenario.
Why are there so few female leads who aren't sexually supercharged eye candy? In part because sex sells to the thirteen year old pocket mining demographic, but also because most game characters aren't written that well anyway.
Look at the majority of male characters, and you'll find they are just as bad as the stacked, scantily clad super hotties in that they are ultra-powerful, preposterone fueled bad asses.
Somewhat regular people with real problems who are put in extraordinary situations are usually confined to adventure games, and hey presto there are some female leads in those that don't wear skin tight tank tops.
I have to agree with the developers of games on this one, I mean, the majority of gamers are male, no doubt there ARE girls, but for the most part it's guys, we got that macho thing going on even more when we play video games, and sides, we all think our girl friends couldn't handle the intense action anyway, lol, jk, but honestly, they would have to add in so much more to make only a few people happy, it just isn't worth it for them, would you really have wanted to wait another month for halo 3 just so they could have female characters?
I like to zoom in so much that I cant even see my charector anymore :)
Its true that most gamers are guys. Nothing sexist, just that I've only met one female gamer, who doesnt mind admitting it. And I sometimes see girls on online RPGs but then they can just be someone else.
The claim that this situation is the way it is because most gamers are guys is insulting to guys, and also, less aware of the current changing demographics of the medium. Also, on general principle, wouldn't encouraging more girls joining this community be a good thing?
In general, I don't believe that "sex selling" is enough by itself, you had games that used it that were horrible and did horribly, you've had games that used it that did well, but because they did *other things well*. Sure, sexy looking women appeal to a male, especially a young one, but it is not sufficient. It's basically just a lazy shorthand for creating female characters, irrelevant of the quality of the game and how well it might actually do. Nothing else. If the game sucks, then scantily clad females won't save it, if it doesn't, then scantily clad females are unnecessary.
roo18: I like to zoom in so much that I cant even see my charector anymore :)
Its true that most gamers are guys. Nothing sexist, just that I've only met one female gamer, who doesnt mind admitting it. And I sometimes see girls on online RPGs but then they can just be someone else.
I know a several female gamers on MMOs (I talk to them on Vent >.>) I don't think female gamers are as rare as people believe, its just that they're more quiet in comparison to the male populace. Especially online, where if they claim to be female, they'll either be called a liar, be told they know nothing of games, or be asked for nude pictures.
roo18: I like to zoom in so much that I cant even see my charector anymore :)
Its true that most gamers are guys. Nothing sexist, just that I've only met one female gamer, who doesnt mind admitting it. And I sometimes see girls on online RPGs but then they can just be someone else.
I know a several female gamers on MMOs (I talk to them on Vent >.>) I don't think female gamers are as rare as people believe, its just that they're more quiet in comparison to the male populace. Especially online, where if they claim to be female, they'll either be called a liar, be told they know nothing of games, or be asked for nude pictures.
The amount of time I've been asked to prove I'm not a man is incredible, but atleast thats just online.
Probaly are quite a few female gamers, just I havn't met any. Suppose the ratio is just more guys.
The amount of time I've been asked to prove I'm not a man is incredible, but atleast thats just online.
Probaly are quite a few female gamers, just I havn't met any. Suppose the ratio is just more guys.
It's true, that happens. Back in my WoW phase, I used to run allot with a couple other guys I know from life. At one point, one met a rogue, and he introduced her to the rest of us. We brought her along on some instances. At first, life was good really; I can honestly say we didn't give a rat's butt what she was, we needed a rogue, and she was good at what she did. She hurt things; and kept her head in a fight. Couldn't ask for much more. Eventually though, we started having personality conflict problems. She was prone to fits of immature behavior. She was just a little too interested in calling attention to herself as the only woman, and frankly, the rest of us didn't care. What, you want a cookie? She snapped at one of our warriors a couple times, things went downhill after that.
My point is, at least in the MMO environment, the first sign that someone who is a woman, isn't - is that she calls attention to it. The only exception I've found to that, is sometimes women get frustrated at the assumption that they're not women; and will sometimes draw attention to that fact to prove a point. (IE that women can and do game.) That's self-defeating logic. I've never met a single person, who EVER thought that more women gaming was a bad thing. Least never met a person who thought that and wasn't an idiot. That's the wonderful thing about gaming really. It doesn't matter who's on the other side of that flak cannon, just which direction it's pointing.
The amount of time I've been asked to prove I'm not a man is incredible, but atleast thats just online.
Probaly are quite a few female gamers, just I havn't met any. Suppose the ratio is just more guys.
It's true, that happens. Back in my WoW phase, I used to run allot with a couple other guys I know from life. At one point, one met a rogue, and he introduced her to the rest of us. We brought her along on some instances. At first, life was good really; I can honestly say we didn't give a rat's butt what she was, we needed a rogue, and she was good at what she did. She hurt things; and kept her head in a fight. Couldn't ask for much more. Eventually though, we started having personality conflict problems. She was prone to fits of immature behavior. She was just a little too interested in calling attention to herself as the only woman, and frankly, the rest of us didn't care. What, you want a cookie? She snapped at one of our warriors a couple times, things went downhill after that.
My point is, at least in the MMO environment, the first sign that someone who is a woman, isn't - is that she calls attention to it. The only exception I've found to that, is sometimes women get frustrated at the assumption that they're not women; and will sometimes draw attention to that fact to prove a point. (IE that women can and do game.) That's self-defeating logic. I've never met a single person, who EVER thought that more women gaming was a bad thing. Least never met a person who thought that and wasn't an idiot. That's the wonderful thing about gaming really. It doesn't matter who's on the other side of that flak cannon, just which direction it's pointing.
firemonk3y: lance, the biggest problem with the games you listed don't involve you stepping into the shoes of a female character, but having the camera hover about three inches from her arse as you're meant to be doing something competitive. In all honesty, they're a joke, and a crass, tasteless and sexist one at that.
If this was one of those fancy-shmancy non-linear games, sure, allowing for the Napoleonic need to both preserve your reputation and deal with primitive contraceptives, seduction would be fine. But why can't you use seduction in a game with a male protagonist? Recent political scandals in the United States shows that men in the highest positions of power seem to take anything that moves. :P
To be absolutely fair, I've been longing for a serious game about Casanova for ages. Or at least serious in the sense that they don't modernize him... at the most like the cheeky BBC version. If they'd make the game historically correct it'd be pretty weird though, as you basically start with a 20-year-old Casanova who's ever conquest is cute and you sort-of start raise an eyebrow when he acquaints a 15-year-old when he is 28... and eventually when he is over 40 he first almost unknowingly marries his daughter and when he finds out, he still has sex with her regardless (condoned by the mother, nonetheless). I'm sure that even if it is a historic tale, allowing the player to have sex with his own daughter (even if she's 18 in America that is rape, I believe?) would cause such a stir Jack Thompson would bring down the industry using heavy explosive if needed.
Interesting thing would be that once you get to the point where you're Casanova, the titillation phase is over and you could have more serious female roles. Even if, in the end, they're Casanova's target.
I believe the sort of game you're looking for is a dating sim. There's even a simple engine online you can use to write your own story.
If this was one of those fancy-shmancy non-linear games, sure, allowing for the Napoleonic need to both preserve your reputation and deal with primitive contraceptives, seduction would be fine. But why can't you use seduction in a game with a male protagonist? Recent political scandals in the United States shows that men in the highest positions of power seem to take anything that moves. :P
To be absolutely fair, I've been longing for a serious game about Casanova for ages. Or at least serious in the sense that they don't modernize him... at the most like the cheeky BBC version. If they'd make the game historically correct it'd be pretty weird though, as you basically start with a 20-year-old Casanova who's ever conquest is cute and you sort-of start raise an eyebrow when he acquaints a 15-year-old when he is 28... and eventually when he is over 40 he first almost unknowingly marries his daughter and when he finds out, he still has sex with her regardless (condoned by the mother, nonetheless). I'm sure that even if it is a historic tale, allowing the player to have sex with his own daughter (even if she's 18 in America that is rape, I believe?) would cause such a stir Jack Thompson would bring down the industry using heavy explosive if needed.
Interesting thing would be that once you get to the point where you're Casanova, the titillation phase is over and you could have more serious female roles. Even if, in the end, they're Casanova's target.
I believe the sort of game you're looking for is a dating sim. There's even a simple engine online you can use to write your own story.
Jill Valentine who ran around in a miniskirt and tight top in Resi 3 and Claire Redfield who had cut-off jeans and tight leggings in Resi 2. To be fair, they were treated a bit better in Resi 1 and Code Veronica, although even in the latter, Claire had tight jeans on.
The next big revolution in gaming technology will be a chase camera that somehow still lets you see the main character's tits.
Jill Valentine who ran around in a miniskirt and tight top in Resi 3 and Claire Redfield who had cut-off jeans and tight leggings in Resi 2. To be fair, they were treated a bit better in Resi 1 and Code Veronica, although even in the latter, Claire had tight jeans on.
The next big revolution in gaming technology will be a chase camera that somehow still lets you see the main character's tits.
Hehe chase camera, sad thing is that I could see that happening.
roo18: The amount of time I've been asked to prove I'm not a man is incredible, but atleast thats just online.
Probaly are quite a few female gamers, just I havn't met any. Suppose the ratio is just more guys.
I've had the same problem. When a guy starts being a sexist jerk and then I point out that yes, I am female....
I know several female gamers on xbox live. They tend to hang out on the ladies forum, probably because of topics like "do girls play Halo?".
In all honesty, how hard is it to set up a decent female character? All you need is some decent skill at characterization, and perhaps a game that doesn't need a massive tank for the protagonist. I could come up with plots for such in my sleep.
roo18: The amount of time I've been asked to prove I'm not a man is incredible, but atleast thats just online.
Probaly are quite a few female gamers, just I havn't met any. Suppose the ratio is just more guys.
I've had the same problem. When a guy starts being a sexist jerk and then I point out that yes, I am female....
I know several female gamers on xbox live. They tend to hang out on the ladies forum, probably because of topics like "do girls play Halo?".
In all honesty, how hard is it to set up a decent female character? All you need is some decent skill at characterization, and perhaps a game that doesn't need a massive tank for the protagonist. I could come up with plots for such in my sleep.
ahhh....yes. How hard is it? Virtually impossible for a male writer, especially one of limited skill, as they tend to be in the gaming industry.
A female writer would be better at it, for obvious reasons, but they don't tend to get involved in the geeky male dominated nightmare of most developing houses. Someone on another discussion board mentioned how a female designer/lead programmer (possibly) was exceptional badly treated for the work she did on Assassin's Creed. I don't know any more than that, but I'm certainly not suprised by this.
If this was one of those fancy-shmancy non-linear games, sure, allowing for the Napoleonic need to both preserve your reputation and deal with primitive contraceptives, seduction would be fine. But why can't you use seduction in a game with a male protagonist? Recent political scandals in the United States shows that men in the highest positions of power seem to take anything that moves. :P
To be absolutely fair, I've been longing for a serious game about Casanova for ages. Or at least serious in the sense that they don't modernize him... at the most like the cheeky BBC version. If they'd make the game historically correct it'd be pretty weird though, as you basically start with a 20-year-old Casanova who's ever conquest is cute and you sort-of start raise an eyebrow when he acquaints a 15-year-old when he is 28... and eventually when he is over 40 he first almost unknowingly marries his daughter and when he finds out, he still has sex with her regardless (condoned by the mother, nonetheless). I'm sure that even if it is a historic tale, allowing the player to have sex with his own daughter (even if she's 18 in America that is rape, I believe?) would cause such a stir Jack Thompson would bring down the industry using heavy explosive if needed.
Interesting thing would be that once you get to the point where you're Casanova, the titillation phase is over and you could have more serious female roles. Even if, in the end, they're Casanova's target.
I believe the sort of game you're looking for is a dating sim. There's even a simple engine online you can use to write your own story.
This is pretty much the RPG Maker2000 for dating sims.
Kieran21: ahhh....yes. How hard is it? Virtually impossible for a male writer, especially one of limited skill, as they tend to be in the gaming industry.
A female writer would be better at it, for obvious reasons, but they don't tend to get involved in the geeky male dominated nightmare of most developing houses. Someone on another discussion board mentioned how a female designer/lead programmer (possibly) was exceptional badly treated for the work she did on Assassin's Creed. I don't know any more than that, but I'm certainly not suprised by this.
A skilled writer should be able to pull such off...assuming that there are skilled writers in the field.
Badly treated? Great, that's encouraging. Almost makes me want to reconsider my career plans.
Personally, I'd have no interest in a dating sim. I play FPS, strategy, and RPGs.
Well we don't actually know if Master Chief is a Bloke or Girl yet do we?
Anyway, Resident Evil games, there's Jill Valentine and Claire Redfield.
But there's always a reason, not being sexist but what woman (Unless theyr a heartless ninja babe) would kill someone without a second thought?
But apparently the Desighners are sexist because they make every man a muscle bound sex god, and every girl a afraid little babe who fires off perfect shots whenever she's attacked, OR she's completly useless and sit's there screaming "HELP ME JACK!!!" Or something to that effect. But also the scientists from half life 1 are basicly the girls I've just described.