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Copy Clerk Posts: 86 Joined: 6 Dec 2007   | |
Copy Clerk Posts: 53 Joined: 22 Dec 2007 |
Who says they think they are the greatest? Maybe its the 'console tards' that think they are the greatest cos they dont have to tweak? PC only gamers think their format is better than consoles cos of flexibility multitasking and the controll system. Console players think there system is better cos at the time of release hardware wise its cheaper, they too prefer their controll system and arent interested in tweaking or other apps. People disagree dude, whats your point. As for Steam at first I thought it was a steaming pile of sh*t, and now I think its the best thing ever. Orange Box came out. I downloaded and played it the same day. LEGALLY. Brilliant huh. Not Direct to Drive patch problems crap. I backed it up onto a Dual Layer DVD everything sorted. Steam keeps all my games in one place and yes I like the fact they get information out their games and the technology they are running on. Games that are designed to run on the pcs of the gamers. Games that have the piss easy sections made harder and the stupidly difficult bits made easier. The steam survey information, which note they share with the user, is of benefit in the long run. The steam server window for all my games so i can choose what to play based on the most populated server and lowest ping rather than by game if i want. The now working Friends system is great too. You see when they come on and just click to join their game. All in all I think a few flaws here and there can be easily overlooked. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 1 Joined: 12 Jan 2008 | If you must have the steam client installed on your "C" drive and your games installed on another drive, say "D" Drive. There is a kinda bodge way of doing it using NTFS reparse points. Close steam The easiest way of settin up a reparse point is to get a programme called junction linkmagic (google it). set C:\program files\steam\steamapps as the host folder and D:\Games\Steam Games\ as the target. what this does is even thou all the game data is physically on the D drive, windows can also access this data through the reparse point on the c drive, in other words windows thinks that the data is contained in the c drive. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1060 Joined: 12 Oct 2007    |
Thanks for the suggestion I thought of trying something like that with Windows own builtin mountpoint utility but have not got around to it. Been too busy playing HL2. (great game if a bit dated by now.) |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3353 Joined: 2 Dec 2007    |
runtheplacered? Don't worry, I've met a few that look down on people who own a console. I'm just saying why is it so bad? |
Paperboy  Posts: 27 Joined: 26 Dec 2007    | Wow, this might very well be the dumbest reason to dump on Steam, ever. No, srsly. Set the install path for Steam on the partition you will use for games when you install it. Why shouldn't you, in the first place? |
Anonymous Source Posts: 5 Joined: 13 Jan 2008 |  I ignored most of the posts in this topic for simplicities sake. Really your complain is trivial, it's simple to remedy without any real loss and without having to redownload anything. I'm sure you can tolerate having a purely game related application in your game drive and having to reinstall a ten or so meg application? |
Paperboy  Posts: 11 Joined: 2 Jan 2008 | i dunno how this became a pc vs 360 thread, nor do i care. i've also had a strange experience with Steam though. Not sure if they still have it, but they had some promotion that if you had an ATI chipset in your laptop, you were eligible for a free game off of Steam. I installed Steam, applied, it recognized i had an ATI Radeon Express 200, and i was all set. however, a message pops up and says "this video card voucher has already been redeemed" ?!?!?!?! first of all, this was on a brand new, straight from best buy laptop, and second, before the fact, i never created a Steam account. all in all, a strange and frustrating experience. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1060 Joined: 12 Oct 2007 |
I've already explained the logic behind my own reasoning but I'll go ahead and repeat myself: Steam is not a game therefore does not really belong in the same place as the games themselves. Really no different from how one might work with Winamp (One of the best music programs ever created on any operating system.) or any other application that manipulates data files. Suggesting otherwise is equivalent to suggesting that any and every program should be installed into the system root folder so that the add/remove programs wizard can manipulate the programs. Giving me the ability to put the games themselves where ever I feel like, doesn't prevent anyone else from putting all of their games inside the steam folder if that is what they feel like doing. With the way they do things now I would have to install Steam again if I wanted to change drives for some reason, worse still if I end up creating another game partition or get another disk I would like to use for games I would have to install Steam yet again for every new partition or drive I would like to use. (It's also not that difficult to fill even fairly large capacity drives with PC games I have something like 30gigs worth of game data right now between seven games.) |
Copy Clerk Posts: 53 Joined: 22 Dec 2007 |
The point i was making was PC only people look down on console players and console only players look down on PC players. Its human nature its not an exclusive club to either camp. Back on topic I dont like the fact that I cant run office off my pen drive. Though to be honest im not convinced that I have a right to complain about it. What if someone has 2 partitons 5 gigs big and wants to install a 6 gig game? Its the same hard drive. Theres no difference to the way the data is written to the hard drive why not let people do slit volume installs? Because your in the minority and they arent obliged to. For the vast majority steam works fine. |
Muckraker  Posts: 317 Joined: 31 Oct 2007 | "I don't reall know what I did to bring this on. It seems as if you're flaming me because I don't own a PC that can run Crysis." I don't have a computer that can run Crysis... or at least.. very well. "Firstly, I wouldn't care to tinker with my system. I don't need any mods as I find my gaming experience just dandy without them. As for the bugs? I've yet to play a bug filled game that requires a patch or two." But that's just ignorant. You get along fine without mods... ok. But why would you want to be without them? They're a huge part of the gaming experience, and you really are missing out on a lot without them. Sure, you can live your life happily without them, granted, but don't act like it's not a "plus" on the side of the PC vs. Console debate. "I find that a controller is more comfortable then a keyboard. I'm sure there are (or will be) keyboard attachments out there for the 360 if you want to complain so much." Something tells me you've never attempted to play a video game with a controller and then tried to play that same game with a keyboard. But Ok, I'll play along. I personally don't think there's any room for debate that a keyboard/mouse gives you far better control, and in fact I'm sure if I cared to, I could prove this with some fairly simple math. But I'm not going to put that much effort into this conversation. "I think that the 360's graphics are just fine thankyou. I don't think they need upgradeing." Of course it is. It just came out. Give it a couple years and once again the 360 will be miles behind the PC. Of course a couple of years after that gap, you'll get to shell out another $500 for the Xbox 720. Also, hopefully your Xbox doesn't break while it's not under warranty.. fortunately for me.. if a piece of my PC breaks, I can just go out and purchase that one piece. "What games? Crysis?! World of Warcraft? I wouldn't go near those even if they were on the 360. I think the 360 has a great line up of titles that are only for the 360: Mass Effect, Dead Rising, GoW, etc, etc." Err.. GoW is on the Pc. It's only a matter of time before Mass Effect is on PC (just as they did with KOTOR). And I didn't say you were missing out on games, I said genres. MMO's is one example (although, I do not play those either. but obviously somebody does? some millions, even. You can't dismiss it just because you dislike it.) But, how about Grand Strategy games as another example? (Europa Universalis, Hearts of Iron, etc.) (I laughed pretty hard when somebody mentioned Halo Wars as a strategy game.. ok, buddy.. because there's only real time strategy games, right? hilarious.) Turn-based video games (such as Total War) or 4x strategy games (such as Civilization)hasn't seemed to have gotten much play on the Xbox. Free roaming Space Sims (such as Freelancer or X3). Point and click adventures (such as the Longest Journey) And thousands and thousands of independent game developers producing games all the time. In fact, is what you enjoy not out? With a PC, you can make your own game. Asking for a few more genres? Ok. City-Building, Government simulations, realistic flight simulators (as opposed to arcade style), train simulators, adult titles. Do I seriously have to keep going? The bottom line is that PC's are far more versatile then a console can ever be. Because if a console became as versatile as a PC, guess what? It's a PC! "I know how a computer works, but I just don't care to make it powerful enough to run the top of the range games." I didn't say you have to run the top of the range games. I don't. And that has nothing to do with what I said. "When did this forum become 'computer only'?" Er... it's a video game forum. That's what I was talking about, when the heck did I say anything about computer only? Thanks for putting words in my mouth.. but I'm not really that hungry. "ike REDPill357 said, your statement seems unintelligent. All I said was that I hate it how people think that PC's are the best and that's all there is; everything else is crap. And then get a problem and complain about it like it was the end of the world (that wasn't aimed at the OP)." I could care less if you think my statements were unintelligent. Who are you? Am I supposed to try to impress you? I brought up valid points, and you attempted to dodge them and then ended that dodging with insults. Yet my comments were the unintelligent ones? Right..... You wondered why PC users think they're the greatest, and you got your answer. What did you expect? Why else would you say that if you weren't going to listen to another persons opinion? So sorry it didn't match your own. I also never said that everything else, aside from pc gaming, was crap. I was merely showing the pros of PC gaming. I obviously had no reason to show the pros of console gaming, since you already are a console gamer. That'd be redundant. I will say, if you are a PC gamer, you should come to expect that there are negative consequences for having complete freedom. But, that should be a given, and it is a chance I'm willing to take. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 3353 Joined: 2 Dec 2007 |
Ok. Never mind. You seemed to miss my point. I was just saying that none of your arguments apply to me or most people like me. I don't care for MMO's and RTS's. I don't care for moding no matter how essensial you say it is. That stuff doesn't interest me in the bit. I have many games where I still use a keyboard and mouse but I find the controller more comfortable. I'm not argueing which one is better. Look, I just wondered why people like you think they so great and now I realise... it's cause the sticks been shoved waaaay too far up your back side it's interferring with your brain. (Yes that last bit was a flame, and sorry everyone else for that comment. I felt the need to use my angry voice) |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1060 Joined: 12 Oct 2007 |
You know you can create a Windows live CD (BartPE), and there is another free program called mojopac that lets you do a simillar thing. You and I really have no clue how many people do one thing or another so you can quit with the "you are in the minority" bs. You are in no position to know just how many people do one thing or another. It's like suggesting that 2kgames should not have bothered to fix the widescreen field of vision bug because more people have 4:3 displays, or that is is perfectly fine to prompt for the cd key for every user on a single computer, or you could be CDprojekt Red and have problems with the copy protection making the game unplayable because the user just happens to have a sata DVD drive. Imagine if they just said "Fuck you get an IDE DVD drive." |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 483 Joined: 5 Jan 2008 |
I got two words to refute that point: Garry's Mod. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 3353 Joined: 2 Dec 2007 |
Hmm. True. Ok let me change that: I don't care for moding, aside from the GMod, no matter how essensial you say it is. |
Paperboy  Posts: 19 Joined: 4 Oct 2007 | Ugh, computer vs. console debates. I play on both sides, and I have a simple policy: I go where the games I want to play are. I bought a 360 because it had (and has) a bunch of upcoming games I wanted to play at a price I was willing to pay. When the games I wanted to play and the upgrades I needed to play them on PC came within a price I could afford, I got them. If the PS3 had the games I wanted, I would get one. They're just games. Why should I pick a "side" and argue endlessly and pointlessly about it because someone else has decided for me that one or the other offers a "better experience" than what I actually want to play? And before runtheplacered jumps to correct me that "I wasn't arguing, I was just pointing out that mine is clearly better", shut up. You wanted to rattle a console gamer's cage and you know it. Games aside, and as much as I love my little humming tower, consoles do have one advantage over PCs that keep me playing them as well. You can put a game in and it will just. Freaking. Work. No installation or troubleshooting or incompatability. Even the most competent PC users have to admit there have been games that made them spend hours trying to get the game to work or optimizing to a playable performance. It's not a lot to get over, but I appreciate the guarantee that when I put a game in a console and sit down, it will be to play that game and get the best the console can give me, no further configuring required. That said, they're video games. It's your money to play what you want. Who the hell cares? |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 3353 Joined: 2 Dec 2007 |
Not really. I not saying that consoles are better, just wondering why people seem to hate people who play there games on consoles rather then PC's. I wasn't trying to start a war. And I agree with all of your above points. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 187 Joined: 14 Jan 2008  | This has happened not only to Orange Box but also when I installed Dawn of War: Dark Crusade. I remedied this by reworking it's install parth from it's default to a specific plae. i.e Steam/steamapps/[insert username here]/[insert game here]. It worked fine from then on, although TF2 gives me hard timw with some ambient noise lagging a bit. Steam may be full of itself but you have to give it some leeway. As was said, just make it install in a seperate partition and you will be fine. As for the assumption that Steam is overrateed, I would have to agree. Even though I play it often, with such mods as Synergy and Eternal SIlence I wounder exactly how it mounts these files and why it sometimes decides to randomly install the wrong. When in doubt, always follow your nose. I have heality modified Steam by reworked soem of these probolems through hard-coding into it's matrix it's install path and I found that when you install a game it tends to appear as an icon with a Downloading- 5%. It automatically intalls to that specific root directory I mentioned above. Although it took me hours to complete Steam now runs fine. It just dosent trust me all that well, it tends to delete my password and not tell me, after opening my fifth account through Steam I think I solved the probolem. Just keep on trucking, and dont let stuff like this frazzle you. You dont want to end up going 'round the bend and making some all-powerful robot to go destroy VALVe. At least, you don't HAVE to. |
Beat Writer Posts: 187 Joined: 14 Jan 2008 |
neither is better, PCs and Consoles have their probolems. PC's cant keep alive for more than a few years before eith catching the computer plague or getting altheimers and killing itself. Consoles are fragile and thus end up dynig whn you make the beginners mistake of playing game on them. It's like the gaming gods are punishing us because we revere our games more than them. Although I think that the PS3 can suck my balls, all other consoles arent half bad |
Copy Clerk Posts: 53 Joined: 22 Dec 2007 |
Actually we do know who is in the minority due to the steam survery which collects how much free hard drive space u have on the drive where steam is installed. 90% have more than 10gigs and 81% have more than 20 gigs free space. Also 38% having 250 gigs+ TOTAL (not free) hard drive space. I understand you want to run your computer how you want to but at the end of the day they give steam out for free for you to use to download and play games. Its not open source and they are under no obligation to cater to your needs. Considering all its advantages and its strengths to call it the dumbest application ever is a bit mucn. TO PurpleRain and DarkKaz: |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 380 Joined: 11 Jan 2008 |
OK, I own a Wii (which I never play because all the Nintendo games are Marios and Zeldas so I was ripped off) and still, on occasion, play my Dreamcast and PS2, but on the whole, 99% of the time I play a PC because I'm sick of having to own 3 consoles for the best games only to have them released on the PC 6 months later cheaper, better looking and easier to handle (keyboard/ pc/ mouse). I'm not a console fanboy or PC fanboy, but I switched to PC after the DC because I assumed I could kill multiple birds with one stone by investing £200 in a new graphics card every 1-2 years rather than buy 3 consoles at £250-500 every 5 years, not including accessories. I don't see a difference with consoles and PCs. One just lets you use Microsoft Excel and the others don't :D This isn't the case though. Despite all the money I invest in games and upgrading, I have to act a doggie chasing after developer's sticks by signing up to pointless sites, downloading patches, etc AFTER I've legally spent £35-40 on a brand spanking new game. Now I understand what people say by 'if you don't like it, don't buy those games' but that's the thing. I bought Viva Pinata 2 weeks ago and it was only AFTER I bought and installed it that I was told I couldn't save my games unless I signed up to Windows Live. Although I haven't checked on Orange Box, I'm pretty sure there's no explanation on Viva Pinata's box. This, to me, is when it's not about choice, but game companies literally CHEAT you. They know (at least in my country) most stores no longer refund PC games, and with certain games after it's used on your PC, it's not capable of working on other systems (World of Warcraft) so you can't sell of second hand afterwards. Even worse than that, I've bought two Microsoft games, Pinata and another called 'Sudeki'. Both games, despite being out for ages, have little to no patches at all. Considering Microsoft are one of the biggest companies in the world, it's just baffling they can't afford to help those who keep them at the top. And none had demos to try before you buy, presumably deliberately because they knew so many would have compatibility problems. So IMO, the publishers, developers, or whoever responsible are a group of con-artists if they don't explicitly detail this on the game description. The reason I've not bought Half Life 2 is because I tried to play the demo and I had to sign up to Valve - just to play the flippin' demo! I'm sure Half Life 2 is as good as everyone says, but I'm not supporting that kind of industry method. As an Amazon review stated - people who illegally get hold of games are only going to find another way round. For me, the best way is to respect those who buy legally, keep giving out a good product, and so long as the marketing and games are great, you're always going to have the majority of the pie worship you. They don't need to hold us all on a leesh! BTW, sorry for this slightly patronising rant. I hope you can all understand though? P.S. this is the first console VS P.C. debate I've read/ seen since I was in high school 8 years ago, during the Saturn/ PSX age. Didn't know these debates still happened? |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 372 Joined: 8 Jan 2008 | I haven't found any problems with it. If you have, well, that just sucks. It could be improved, but I like it better than having a million game CDs around the house. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1060 Joined: 12 Oct 2007 | Thehound the problem with statistics is that you can get them to say almost anything you want. You are also assuming that everyone that uses Steam actually participates in the surveys. It's not a safe assumption, the problem becomes even worse if you start doing surveys where people have to answer questions because the nature of the question and the fact that people can and do lie. I also wonder if Steam is capable of telling what kind of drive topology people are even using which would of course affect any size metrics they tried to come up with. In the end it means that any numbers you come up with mean far less than you would like to believe. I'm willing to bet that most people use variants of the QWERTY keyboard layout however that does not in reality mean that all of those people are using the same keymap for whatever reason. It also does not mean that the keyboard has the keys in the same place as the "standard" QWERTY layout. Hell you can't even gaurantee that everyone has the same ability with respect to using a QWERTY layout keyboard. So it would not be a very good idea to omit control configuration based on some insane idea that you could actually have some real certainty that no one would want to change the keymapping in your product. While its true that you have to make certain assumptions when you make any product there are in fact such things as pointless and/or bad assumptions that should not be made especially when methods for avoiding such assumptions have been in use for at least a decade. I also would love to know if there is a way for me to play the game(s) legally without having to use steam at all having purchased the retail box and all that. |
Paperboy  Posts: 17 Joined: 12 Jan 2008 | I totally agree I hate steam! |
Anonymous Source Posts: 9 Joined: 15 Jan 2008 | Steam has a clever way of saving space. Most people who play Steam mods (Puts hand up) will notice in the mod files there is not much stored information. Steam makes all large content files accessible by all other steam applications that might need it, thus preventing repeated downloads of the same stuff. This requires you to have your steam location where ever your steam games are going to be installed, think of steam less as a server browser and more of an internal game operator. The wires have to be connected to the phone. And be thankfull... It could be CoD2 |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1060 Joined: 12 Oct 2007 |
I don't see why what you describe could not be accomplished with environment variables? If you install a game on more than one computer the Steam client could just check the local environment variable for the game in question and get the same results. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 9 Joined: 15 Jan 2008 |
Why would you want move memory allocated to start up. Boot - run - done, Effective and fast. Steam program itself is very insignificantly small so I'm not seeing the major problem... |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1060 Joined: 12 Oct 2007 | Why would you be moving memory? All the environment variable would do is have the location of the game on the hard drive mapped to it. My point is that your reasoning is flawed because you don't gain anything if you want to install a game on more than one machine (which presumably would have differing hard drive schemes.) you would still have to install the game again etc. Even if you didn't need to copy the mod to the second machine the environment variable would still work in all cases. You don't even gain anything from the current method on just one machine since things are still tied to the steam root directory. If you used an environment variable you lose nothing from the current method and gain added flexibility on the part of Steam. </ |
More reasons to hate Steam:
- You're giving control of something you've bought to complete strangers (Do you know the guys at Steam control?)
Analogy: You've just bought a nice shiny new car, you can drive it all you want, but theres someone who can work on it whenever he wants and confiscates your keys if you imported it or if you try to sell it.