I'm curious.

What makes a villain truly great? What separates the Gods of Death from the Dorks? What makes you tremble in your little gaming boots?

A strong personality is what I covet the most. The average villain has about as much personality as a toaster, at most grunting a crappy one-liner now and then and seemingly uninterested by their assigned motivation. That's the second part; a strong motivation often helps to flesh out the character, preferably something deeply personal.

I think the best villains are the ones that you can actually relate to on some level, only with a little bit of insanity on top. Kira from Death Note for example. At first he simply wishes for a better world, but as time goes by that becomes less and less relevant. In the end the only thing that matters to him is winning the game. That's another part of it; a static villain is rarely as interesting as one who has his values challenged, defining him/herself by either changing them or retaining them.

As for a villain being frightening... I guess Shodan did a good job there, but for a villain to be frightening it needs to communicate a sense of despair; that you are indeed screwed, and that your pathetic attempts to fight back are pointless. Most games don't communicate that very well. BioShock for example, where dying is more annoying than anything else. I guess there's the villain type of Pyramid Head, but it's not really a character, although scary. : P

Another thing that can help make a villain scary is that it's way of thinking is very foreign. An enemy that acts seemingly randomly can be frightening. It might act as an ally for a long time, then betray you and then suddenly revert back as if nothing has happened. A motivation hidden in plain sight is also good for this, like Ultimecia in FF8. You never really find out just what it is, or what its purpose is. The ending even suggests that you did not truly win...

But really, villains are rarely frightening unless accompanied by a frightening game experience and a feeling of hopelessness. Most are simply interesting or uninteresting : )

Kefka from Final Fantasy VI is my favorite villain, He's not a "Death Lord" per se but he does cause the end of the world, he's just really nasty, he's a worm that works his way up the ladder and stabs the king in the back. He's Iago from Othello nasty; he'll do something just to spite you even if it will hurt him more. He's not invincible or all that skilled, but he will always be one step ahead and completely insane. He'll break up with his girlfriend and the next day go to her apartment and cover every inch of stuff in that place with Post-it notes that say "I hate you" , he's evil and determined to prove it.

A truly great villain is one that has you beat before you even face them, one you think you would have no chance of winning against, one that makes you say "oh crap oh crap" when you run into them. Although in video games, I'd say the best villains are the ones that you can kill as easily as they can kill you, and it's their skill that you loose too, not their massive health bars or giant weaponry.

A great villain needs a monocle and an inferiority complex the size of Alaska.

Well since I'm reading the Eisenhorn trilogy from the 40k universe I'd have to say that something that makes a villain scary is power beyond the hero's abilities but who is for some reason letting them live or under the hero's power (for now) *cough Cherubael cough*. You know that things could change and when they do you are truly fucked.
As Dectilon has said, villains whose choices you can understand and relate to are very scary. In Eisenhorn again, a (very underdeveloped) villain's stated goal is so understandable it's scary. If this guy had really been able to complete his goal I wouldn't have stopped him. I might even have become him. Also, Watchmen. :)

Do4600:
Kefka from Final Fantasy VI is my favorite villain, He's not a "Death Lord" per se but he does cause the end of the world, he's just really nasty, he's a worm that works his way up the ladder and stabs the king in the back. He's Iago from Othello nasty; he'll do something just to spite you even if it will hurt him more. He's not invincible or all that skilled, but he will always be one step ahead and completely insane. He'll break up with his girlfriend and the next day go to her apartment and cover every inch of stuff in that place with Post-it notes that say "I hate you" , he's evil and determined to prove it.

Yet still, no one in that world really knows (or cares) where he came from and what kind of life he was living before joining the army (or what his life was like during). Perhaps he saw such horrible things that he sort of snapped? Since nothing is revealed about him it's popular practice to just say that he's arbitralily evil, but maybe there are some hints here and there as to why he does what he does. I haven't really scoured the lands for plot, so I'm not sure : P

someone/something who manipulates you, kills your entire family and friends, makes you his bitch, and still makes you think he/she/it's an awesome guy/gal/thing.

Also, he must be really, really hard to kill.

Or someone like kefka. that'd work too.

Control is always important, to appear completely calm(permitting sadism) when exercising one's power. Then make you freak by the end when he reveals that he's a complete nutter. (Zant)

I agree with some of what others have said, but not much of it.

To me, a truly great villain, regardless of situation or threat level, is a villain with whom you could see having a good and believable reason for doing his or her evil deeds. Someone who you could see being the protagonist if the situation was different, and someone you could easily see yourself becoming if you were in their shoes.

Andrew Ryan was a great villain, so was Fontaine to a lesser extent. Both sought power and control, and Ryan truly wanted to make his Utopia, just not everybody agreed with him on how to do it.

Valgav from the Anime slayers... HE was a truly epic villain. Him and his people (The Ancient Dragons) were condemned to death by a cousin-race simply for being born more powerful than the holy "Gold Dragons". The sole survivor of the genocide, he was then reborn as a half-demon, only to be again outcast and hunted by the Demon race. His goal was to restart existence, erase the sins of the world and return us all to nothing, so that we may all be reborn without hatred and jealousy. His opponents thought him mad, but he was quite sane, and sought an end to pain and suffering not just for his own tortured soul, but all the Gods, Monsters, Demons, Dragons and Mortals.

Khell_Sennet:
I agree with some of what others have said, but not much of it.

To me, a truly great villain, regardless of situation or threat level, is a villain with whom you could see having a good and believable reason for doing his or her evil deeds. Someone who you could see being the protagonist if the situation was different, and someone you could easily see yourself becoming if you were in their shoes.

Andrew Ryan was a great villain, so was Fontaine to a lesser extent. Both sought power and control, and Ryan truly wanted to make his Utopia, just not everybody agreed with him on how to do it.

Valgav from the Anime slayers... HE was a truly epic villain. Him and his people (The Ancient Dragons) were condemned to death by a cousin-race simply for being born more powerful than the holy "Gold Dragons". The sole survivor of the genocide, he was then reborn as a half-demon, only to be again outcast and hunted by the Demon race. His goal was to restart existence, erase the sins of the world and return us all to nothing, so that we may all be reborn without hatred and jealousy. His opponents thought him mad, but he was quite sane, and sought an end to pain and suffering not just for his own tortured soul, but all the Gods, Monsters, Demons, Dragons and Mortals.

Did Valgav's plan work? I would have followed him...

The best evil villains don't nessicarily need to be evil. They usually have a noble reason for doing what they do (Magneto wants to protect mutants and Ra's Al Ghul wants to save the enviroment) but are misguided in how to accomplish their means. And they're charismatic, making you want to live on the wild side for once without any regard for consequences or human life.

Did this thread actually get this far without mention of GLaDOS? Nevermind villain, GLaDOS is perhaps the best character in a video game that I've seen so far.

Khell_Sennet:

Valgav from the Anime slayers... HE was a truly epic villain. Him and his people (The Ancient Dragons) were condemned to death by a cousin-race simply for being born more powerful than the holy "Gold Dragons". The sole survivor of the genocide, he was then reborn as a half-demon, only to be again outcast and hunted by the Demon race. His goal was to restart existence, erase the sins of the world and return us all to nothing, so that we may all be reborn without hatred and jealousy. His opponents thought him mad, but he was quite sane, and sought an end to pain and suffering not just for his own tortured soul, but all the Gods, Monsters, Demons, Dragons and Mortals.

Dhaos from Tales of Phantasia is trying to save his own planet by taking the magic from the protagonists' world. Actually, if he had explained his position rather than declaring war he might not have been a villain to begin with : P

The example you took is quite the classic. Seymore in FFX is very close to your example actually : P

Did this thread actually get this far without mention of GLaDOS? Nevermind villain, GLaDOS is perhaps the best character in a video game that I've seen so far.

GlaDoS is a comedy villain though : P

I always liked Vicious from 'Cowboy Bebop'. He was a cold-hearted, cruel bastard. But yeah, Spike stole his girlfriend from him. That'll bring out the worst in people.

Plus katanas. Any good villain needs a distinct weapon and they know how to kick ass with it.

A good villain needs a good mustache, everything else is secondary. An evil cackle, possibly a top hat. And an underling close at hand that he/she can berate for comic effect.

Depth is good though. Andrew Ryan is the best villain in Bioshock, even if he isn't the main one. Kerrigan (Starcraft) is another. Despite the Overmind being the main opponent in the game, she is the one who makes her mark (and the expansion pack goes on to show her off even more).

J

The Reverend:
A good villain needs a good mustache, everything else is secondary. An evil cackle, possibly a top hat. And an underling close at hand that he/she can berate for comic effect.

That's not the first time I've heard that, but I can't really think of one off the top of my head. Can you give a few examples?

Probably the best villain I've seen in anime form was Legato Bluesummers, because he was ruthless, had absolutely no morals, demanded complete obedience, and caused Vash to

*spoilers*

Kill him, for no reason other than to **** with his mind. Someone who is willing to go that far just to make a point is automatically an awesome villain, but Legato also had the skills to cement himself as an awesome villain. I gues what I'm trying to say is that a great villain should have skills, no morals, and be willing to go as far as necessary just to screw around with the hero.

for who played deus ex, what about bob page and walton simons, a crazy rich man that has the world in his hand thanks to nanotech and his right right hand, a ruthless soldier pulled out of a office with a calm voice and wires attached to the skin

Imperator_2:
Did Valgav's plan work? I would have followed him...

SPOILER ALERT!!!!!

Valgav is defeated in the end by his own heart, as part of him realizes the whole world musn't suffer because he did. He is in turn reborn completely as a dragon (egg so far). The world is saved.

Do see Slayers Try though... But see Slayers Next and Slayers original first.

Brutality. Remember Silent Hill's Pyramid Head. From the first time you see him, he's terrifying. He made you want to run and hide or better yet just run away. He is vicious from moment one. I mean to hear him explained, you might laugh. A guy with a giant metal pyramid on his head, wearing an apron, no pants and carrying a Buster Sword! But even in the head-scratchingly-long movie adaptation of the game, he is total malevolence. No one doubts his intentions or what he is capable of. Hannibal Lecter, Bill the Butcher, Leatherface. Some are classy and civilized. Some are raw and unstoppable. But it's their capacity to harm beyond description, without remorse that makes us fear them.

there are a few key things that every villan needs in my eyes; 1.An Evil laugh 2.A Monicle 3. A Doomsday device 4. a plan for world domination 5. a small cat 6. a rotating chair and most importantly an evil haircut

Alot's been said about what traits are nice, but one thing that's at the top for me is consistency and realism. One or the other, but both are the best.

Vader for example. In the first 3 movies he was amazing. The first time we see him he lifts a man by the throat with one hand and kills him. And he maintains that in the rest of the series. Only by the end when he starts to question the whole "kill you son" thing does he start to get a bit soft, and that's understandable. When your boss is killing off your kid, and to be honest you don't really have it in you (or left on you) to make any more, you have to start weighing the whole "Job Security vs. Genetic Legacy" thing.
But what made him suck in the prequels? A lack of realism. His decisions are inconsistent and unrealistic. He folds and goes dark side faster than it takes to boil an egg. Though admittedly a good boil and none of that soft boil shit.

It could also be said that a good villain is a pure villain. While not overly realistic I'll admit, it is nice. He (and yes it can be a she but honestly we don't take villainesses seriously because really all we think when we see them is "I bet she'd be fun in bed". So unless you're a postmenopausal villainess, I apologize.) has to be purely insane, or purely evil. In essence an archetype for whatever the main character trait is that identifies him. Look at all the good (not crappy, the mad hatter can eat me) Batman villains. Usually very pure in their insanity. The joker at no time gives it up, convinces Harley to go on antipsychotic and moves out to suburbia for a while. He's batshit insane 24/7 and that's what we love about him. Realistic? No. But consistent? Yes.

As for a convincing origin/motivation for his evilness? Yes that's important, but really its just icing on the cake. It can make a good villain perfect (think Seph from FF7. Just one thing after another until "kill all the fuckers" seems to be the only good choice), or it can make a good villain into a lame archetype. "Oh, so he's just some crazy religious guy then...eh."

Villains can differ by archtype and still be good- it would be boring if everyone was 'Insane Manic style' (Joker/Kefka) or 'Comedy Style' (GlaDOS, Bowser or any other Paper Mario villain). Different baddies for different themes. Two of my favorites, as I mentioned in a prior thread, are the two CGI Megas- Megabyte and Megatron (Beast Wars).

Except in rare cases, a good main villain must have a reason for doing what they're doing, preferably something that makes some kind sense to the player/viewer or really makes them think.
'Byte is one of those exceptions, since he's doing only what he was created to do. It must be pretty nice to know the sole and absolute purpose of your life from the moment you're born, eh?
'Tron is a bit closer to a cartoony 'evil because I simply am, MWAHAHA', being part of a race with aggression and conquest built into their very nature. However, I enjoyed his comments on the Great War- he knows his people became the underclass of his world only because their ancestors lost a war centuries ago. Instant parallel with many racial underclasses in RL countries, although he is by no means doing it for altruistic reasons.

They should also have interests or vices outside of their primary evil plots, even if pursuing them takes up 99% of their day.
'Tron enjoys all the comforts of home even on an alien planet, complete with CR bath and rubber ducky!
'Byte not only enjoys electric guitar in front of large audiences, but eventually developed feelings for a certain female Sprite. Being evil however, he has no qualms with taking her in an utterly dominating fashion and never allows it to become a chink in his armor, but rather a chink in his enemies'.

...Which highlights point 3- personal connection or grudge with one of the main characters. If they don't know each other from flashbacks, they should eventually develop feelings and motives that forge them into the true antithesis of what the other stands for. A common method of accomplishing this is having them both destroy people/things important to the other, preferably on purpose. This is how they build up rivalries in several of the Gundam Animes.

Finally, a commanding voice if they've got one. It doesn't neccesarily have to sound sinister, but like someone who really knows what they're doing and will certainly have their way with the world unless you stop them.

It's surprising no-one has mentioned:

SPOILER WARNING! AVERT YOU HUMAN EYES!

Coach Oleander from Psychonauts. He had genuine reasons for wanting to bring pain to the world. There was his traumatic childhood with his vicious butcher father. The time he was booted from the military for being too short. So he had the master plan to take over the world using the brains of psychics controlling tanks. And at the end, he turns good! That's great stuff, that is.

thebobmaster:
Probably the best villain I've seen in anime form was Legato Bluesummers, because he was ruthless, had absolutely no morals, demanded complete obedience, and caused Vash to

*Spoliers again*

I agree. He was a true Nihilist, he saw himself and his fellow man as meaningless, pointless creatures and only Vash and Knives as worthy of existing (so a Nietzschean Nihilist, because he saw meaning only in a higher power). He didn't seem completely void of emotion however, partly because he enjoyed toying with human lives, but also because he seemed frustrated with Vash caring about humans when it was clear in his mind that he, as a higher being, shouldn't.

*And even more spoilers, but for a different series*

On the subject of Trigun a series done by the same team (I think) is GunGrave and has a great villain in Harry McDowell (Or maybe Hari Makdowulu... Why pick names you can't pronounce? ~~) who starts out as the best friend of the protagonist, but his lust for power eventually makes them bitter adversaries. He is also a tragic character (well... not using the definition of Tragic, but you know what I mean ~~) , because he has forgotten why he started to climb in the first place, which was to reach a place where he could do anything and use that power to heal the crime-ridden city he was born in.

speaking of Nihilist, one of the best villians ever in my book is still Nihilus from Kotor II.

He wasn't just void of emotion, he was the void, an empty hole in the force.

Best villian ever though, Pinhead.
Intelligent, evil, cunning, manipulative, and powerful.

I guess for me, the great villians are the ones that give you a shot of fear when they pop-up... ones that have a sort of overwhelming power. Pyramid Head is one of them too.

On the subject of Trigun a series done by the same team (I think) is GunGrave and has a great villain in Harry McDowell (Or maybe Hari Makdowulu... Why pick names you can't pronounce? ~~)

Gungrave was based off of a video game on the PS2 (diff ending though) the names are American because it stays true to the video game, whose characters aren't in Japan so don't use Japanese names. Either way I love that Anime one of the best endings and stories by far.

thenightgaunt:

He (and yes it can be a she but honestly we don't take villainesses seriously because really all we think when we see them is "I bet she'd be fun in bed". So unless you're a postmenopausal villainess, I apologize.) has to be purely insane, or purely evil.

How 'bout Alma from FEAR? She works, doesn't she?

Oh, how could I forget my own avatar, Nanaya. In the story he comes from the protagonist comes from a family that has killing, and killing demons in particular, in the blood. Being adopted, and having had traumatic childhood experiences has caused him to forget this however, but at times he gets strong urges to kill that he tries frantically to fight. Nanaya is a conceptual entity; the person he would've become had things been different. He whispers in the back of his head to kill the non-humans and all who associate with them. The dark side of yourself is as good an enemy as anything, especially if it actually has a voice ;)

Gungrave was based off of a video game on the PS2 (diff ending though) the names are American because it stays true to the video game, whose characters aren't in Japan so don't use Japanese names. Either way I love that Anime one of the best endings and stories by far.

I know, but that was a japanese game to begin with, wasn't it? : P

Dectilon:

thenightgaunt:

He (and yes it can be a she but honestly we don't take villainesses seriously because really all we think when we see them is "I bet she'd be fun in bed". So unless you're a postmenopausal villainess, I apologize.) has to be purely insane, or purely evil.

How 'bout Alma from FEAR? She works, doesn't she?

True Alma does work, but only because she really isn't a villainess, she's a "Creepy Kid" type of villain for the most part and the few scenes we get to see her as an adult, she comes off more as a wierd, asexual ghost thingy. Even then, in the few moments you see her adult form clearly all you can really think is "why the hell does the hair allways fall in just the right way that it covers up her breasts?" Considering that she's spent the last 20 years in a big ball, I'm curious about either where she got the tape to stick her hair to those spots or why she cares enough to use magic to cover up while she's ripping the skeletons out of random people?

Though you are right I suppose. Let me edit that last comment then. "So unless you're a postmenopausal or prepubertal villainess, I apologize."

Nohman from Zone of Enders 2. Evil bastard, shoots you in the back...
Anyone care to elaborate further? I can't remember...

I want a villain(ess) who makes you wonder if it's worth even trying to win. I find that well done female villains work best here. Alma from F.E.A.R. and the archetypical villainess SHODAN both made you seriously ask yourself if there's ANY way for you to win?

I mean, seriously. You're facing something that rips people's skeletons out for fun (not to mention that it's just an astral projection of a long-dead insane ghost), or "A perfect, immortal machine"

Aside that, the villain should seriously scare you. Make you dread the very PROSPECT of facing them. SHODAN and Alma did this too, quite well at that. (Alma to a lesser degree for the buildup, but actually facing her is scarier than actually facing SHODAN because SHODAN's a pussy when you finally meet her, while Alma will instant-kill you when you meet her.)

The villain needs to be completely insane, yet calculating. Kefka and SHODAN do this well.

The villain needs to have the visual/audio parts down too. He or she needs to LOOK and SOUND creepy or intimidating, or both. (Alma and SHODAN do this extremely well. Kefka....noooot so much. "WHEEHE-HE-HE!" anyone?)

That said, as for people not taking female villains seriously, I blame that entirely on the "sex sells" principle, which goes something like this...
Lack of Penis = Must have huge chest = Must have almost no clothing
This is followed in almost every case, including for villainesses. Leading to "whoa. hot. do I have to kill her?" villainesses (the first sister of Fate from God of War 2, anyone?).
Making a villainess butt-ugly doesn't solve it, because they usually become almost comical (sometimes you can scratch the almost).
For a villainess to be good, she has to be a PERSON. Same for a villain.

Ultimately, more than the other stuff I mentioned, they have to be a real person. This doesn't mean that they can't be immortal machine-gods or specters of long-dead teenage girls or whatnot. It just means that they need to have some degree of personality, and logic (even if only in their own eyes) for what they do.

Sephiroth is a perfect example