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Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3769 Joined: 14 Jan 2008     | |
Paperboy  Posts: 19 Joined: 7 May 2008   |
...What? Now you're just arguing because you can. Are you gonna say that GTA met 9567 of the 10000 parameters you set up for it? |
Paperboy  Posts: 44 Joined: 6 Mar 2008    | Portal isnt worth a perfect score just for whoever mentioned it (I personally think no game is), as portal is not even a full game. I dont doubt or dispute its worthiness for praise and attention, but there isnt enough meat on it for a "perfect score". It may have lots of charm and a very impressive gameplay mechanic, but charm (or more relevant to this discussion, "style and delivery") arent enough on their own if you ask me. As much as I dont like GTA, even thats worth a higher score than portal, because there is just more "game" in it. |
Muckraker  Posts: 238 Joined: 26 Mar 2008    |
well... yes it is. it's just a short full game... |
Red Guard  Posts: 1808 Joined: 16 Dec 2007     | It was cool to hate things that were popular when I was a teenager. It's a time in your life to differ yourself from everyone around you. That's why I wore a trench coat, hated jocks and preps, became a drama major, grew an ugly ponytail, and went to midnight showings of The Crow II. I was a supercilious little git with no real opinion on anything. I was being contrary for it's own sake. Thankfully, I grew up sooner than chatting on forums and blogs became the norm. Who knows what sort of idiot I might have turned into if suddenly other people started validating my (stupid) opinions. I find most of the negative posts about widely acclaimed games to use the same tone of voice that I once used to describe things like organized sports, or glee club. That's back when all I could say is "why are those idiots having so much fun?" It never occurred to me that the "having fun" part was more important than my opinions about it. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1636 Joined: 18 Sep 2007   |
Pfeh, that's like docking the Mona Lisa marks because it's a smaller painting than The Last Supper, or downchecking a filet mignion because it doesn't have the bulk of a bag of dog kibble for that matter. That's one of the problems of score reviews, by the way. Not everybody's criteria is going to match... sometimes (as above) not even closely. Scores are useless; it's the text that tells you what the reviewer thought of the game, and why. -- Steve |
Paperboy Posts: 18 Joined: 8 May 2008 | Am I seriously dark and twisted? I didn't find it gritty in the least; I found it quite amusing and chipper! It is jam packed with humour, even the police shouting "don't make me get out of this car" and Nico shouting "I'm going to rip your fucking heart out" made me giggle. I especially like taking my friends for helicopter rides on multi player then jumping my ass out and landing over water, while the quickly hurtling heli smashes into a building and bursts into flames with aforementioned buddy inside blissfully unaware of his predicament as he picks off by standards apocalypse now style with a sniper rifle. |
Copy Clerk Posts: 85 Joined: 10 Mar 2008  | it is more of a war between consoles and the pc. Everyone likes to think of themselves as better and since the majority (not all) the people here are of the pc playing species, we have several bullets for our low poly M16 with a red dot scope and a grenade launcher ie Better graphics, multiplayer, AI and pretty much any thing else. Consoles then are on the floor and using their pistol as their last stand, squeezing off a few rounds of price and interactivity but the pcs' call in air support and flatten them by using businesse expense reduction to get gaming computers that look like HAL from 2001 half price that can play crysis full settings on max resolution whilst sipping a well made cocktail. And the technology to use a wii remote or an x-box 360 controller exists on the pc anyway.We have far cheaper games (Steam) and far more of them with fresh patches, mods and sequels that are still hot from the oven. Most of us think its actually pretty good, we just hate anyone who has an xbox 360 or a PS3. (Wiis are fine though) |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 772 Joined: 1 Jan 2008 | Let's get this straight. The hype made this game look like a 13/10 while to be brutally honest, it's not even a 10/10. The driving system alone makes it a - 1. |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 772 Joined: 1 Jan 2008 |
Considering the amount of criticism I drew when I called American Demographic a "bunch of console-tards", I wouldn't exactly call us a bunch of PC Elitists. |
Anonymous Source  Posts: 7 Joined: 12 Mar 2008 | get over it guys its awesome. |
Muckraker Posts: 314 Joined: 24 Nov 2007 |
Sure. As for flaws, just because every game you can think of has them does not mean that every game that will ever be made MUST have them. The idea that perfection is unattainable, espcially in a situation where perfection is a matter of perception, is naive and childish. On top of that, games are very complex things to analyze and review, and an aspect of a game that some may consider a flaw may actually be one of the game's merits in the view of others. I personally think reviews should not have scores at all, but if they have to, I maintain, as I always have, that a 10/10 should mean perfection, or something so close to it as to be indistinguishable to most. It doesn't matter if no game will ever get that score because of it. It should still be there, a mark of perfection, so that we know when a game is NOT 'perfect' because it does NOT have a 10. Giving a score like that is misleading if used in any other way. Rounding up to 10 is also misleading. I would not be in favor of rounding down, either. I haven't done a review in a while, but I think I may start attaching meaningless or misleading scores to them just to satirize this practice. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 7 Joined: 12 Mar 2008 | ur all seem annoyed cuz the hype made it seem better than it was |
Anonymous Source Posts: 7 Joined: 12 Mar 2008 | ---------------------------------- The hype made this game look like a 13/10 while to be brutally honest, it's not even a 10/10. The driving system alone makes it a - 1. ---------------------------------- |
Anonymous Source Posts: 7 Joined: 12 Mar 2008 | no offense and btw the qoute button doesnt seem to work on my computer so i copied and pasted tht comment |
Red Guard Posts: 1808 Joined: 16 Dec 2007 |
Don't double post please. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2713 Joined: 7 Feb 2008  |
Wait what? While I like Daggerfall, Arena and Morrowind their "sandboxness" is debatable. Sure you can walk around, ride a horse (a really crappy horse in Daggerfall/Arena), buy houses and steal stuff the first two were so buggy that the Sandbox element was all there was to it. And their was no measured reality to them, just a lot of randomly generated scenery and bad looking character models. I didn't really get into Morrowind, I found it boring, which GTA3 was not. Also, none of the Elderscrolls games have car chases, or boat chases. What GTA offered was an open world with VARIED forms of gameplay that actually worked, they've been refined and improved since then but it was one of the first games to really offer both an On Foot and an In Car action game. I suppose you can call the first 2 GTA games "sandboxy" but they didn't allow quite the same depth of world that GTA3 did, they were just chaotic, there was argueably no story and I'd be hard pressed to find anyone who actually did the missions, at least I never knew anyone who did, GTA was just as much fun as a demo where you just outran the cops and ran over lines of Hare-Krishna's. Also GTA3 was released on October 22, 2001. Morrowind was released on May 2, 2002. So apparently Morrowind was NOT made before GTA3. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2128 Joined: 7 Mar 2008 |
actually i DO use the shift key, using all caps is considered bad form, i use the shift and capitalization much like ee cummings did, only for emphasis, glad you decided to attack my grammar as for your other equally bad point, if you are reviewing something and giving you opinion, which a review is, how would you suggest someone recommend things to ppl? things such as the buy/rent/don't touch with a 10 foot pole are ways to sum up your opinion, i do believe reviews also have words written along with the score/rating. i'm guessing you're one of those ppl who just sees the score/rating and then flies off the handle based on that rather than the words that accompany it |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1636 Joined: 18 Sep 2007 |
PerhapsIshouldgiveuponusingthespacebartobeohsopoeticallycool,readabilitybedamned. As to my "equally bad point", my punctuationally-challenged friend, I'm the one saying scores are useless... unless I'm a complete hypocrite (and I'm hoping I'm only a mild hypocrite) that means I don't fly off the handle at seeing high/low scores. Unless I know why the reviewer gave the game a score, the score is meaningless to me; if the reviewer gave a game a bad score because he'd rather be playing a different genre of game, or a different platform, or if there's bad blood between him and the developer, or if he's a raving fan of a competing title, or if the payola wasn't enough, then I'd know it's not a review I personally would use to evaluate a game. A score doesn't tell me that, or tell me that none of that apply; the accompanying text will. And if there's accompanying text telling me what the reviewer thought, and why, then the score's just for decoration. Heck, I disagree with Yahtzee's reviews a lot because he's looking for different experiences in games than I do. That's not necessarily saying he's a bad reviewer... just one I shouldn't use to pick games, because if I just went with "thumbs up/down" on the basis of his reviews I'd end up buying a lot of games I don't like and missing a lot of games I would. That is why I say that all such arbitrary scoring systems are busted; they don't work, at least in matching games to players' tastes anyway. And isn't that the point of a review? -- Steve |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2128 Joined: 7 Mar 2008 |
thanx for proving my point about frothing at the mouth halo fanboys, i would be shift key impared not punctuationally challenged, so please invest in a dictionary cause taking pot shots at you trying to look smart but failing badly as for Yahtzee, his reviews are a mix of humour and critical points of the game that are meant to be taken with a large grain of salt, i do believe he even says that in a few of his reviews, they also to have some truth to them in a generalized setting. if you notice Yahtzee likes to point out the flaws and is always overly cynical, even in the 3 or so games he's come out and said "i like this game", even the other ones he is more harsh on he will give both good and bad and over used points of the game and no a review score is not meant to match a games to a player's taste it's meant as a summary of what the reviewer thought of the game. it could also be that the game itself is bad even if the person likes the genre using me as an example and halo, i'd give it about a 4/10 or a rent but don't buy. why because there's nothing special about it that hasn't been done before and by several years, it's like a tribes rehash done badly. it's a generic fps at best and i've been playing fps's since they came out and i love fps's and the genre by your logic you must think that every reviewer of daikatana was bad because they all said the game was crap and would have rather been getting a root canal while being kicked in the groin then playing the game |
Paperboy  Posts: 25 Joined: 1 May 2008 | The only problem i have with GTA 4 is the fact that i dont have a copy :( |
Paperboy  Posts: 14 Joined: 14 May 2008 | i thought escapist would have half decent forums free of fanboys and petty arguments like this.... |
Muckraker  Posts: 237 Joined: 22 Jan 2008 | really? in my experience i'm the only person in the world who doesn't think this game is dipped in chocolate and gold plated. i'm surprised by the positive responce to a game that is more or less, seen it all before and better style of gameplay. my problem with gta4 basically is that it tries to do too much, including minigames like dating and bowling and trying to make it all somehow realistic. my biggest problem is that the driving is somehow been "improved" by making it suck and seeing as how you drive everywhere in this game thats kind of a big fault. in crackdown the driving sucks but nobody i know drives in that game they all rooftop it. as yahtzee said, somehow making things more realistic and "gritty" means coating everything in a thick coat of grease and putting a perpetual overcast sky look to everything. in my opinion saints row has better graphics due to the fact that most everything is crisp and clean and if you want to look like a thug you can but it's possible to look respectable. i've always understood the "charm" that gta suposedly possessed by surrounding you with fat racist slobs but i'm just tired of working for these complete losers that you have to clean up after like some big fat baby perpetually shitting their own pants. overall i'm displeased with gta4 but i'm not surprised, what does surprise me is that even before the game was released every last person who laid eyes on it apparently thought all this shit deserved perfect scores. if more people had given it even a 7/10 here and there i'd be less harsh on it because due to all these reviews and the recomendation of a friend of mine, i'm out 27$ because of this shitty game, i mean thats what reveiws are supost to keep from happening right? honestly i had more fun playing turning point despite all the broken gameplay. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2713 Joined: 7 Feb 2008 |
I was pleasantly suprised by Saints Row and I'd been playing it for about 2 months before GTA4 came out. I agree wholeheartedly with the graphics comment, I loved the colorful palette of Saints Row and the complete character customizability (I went with a really freaky looking Yakuza type, all bald, tatooed and suit wearing) are awesome features. The driving is also better than GTA4's (the car chases not only control well, they're actually something I look forward too) but the On Foot combat lacks the (as of GTA4) cover system which, while flawed, is a step in the right direction, I also love the realistic weapon damage and body physics (aim for a leg, target limps, shoot for the head? He's dead). The city-scape in GTA4 is also pretty stunning and a little bigger and deeper than the city in Saints Row, plus there are motorcycles, boats and planes in GTA4, unlike Saints Row. But had I not bought Saints Row before hand and been spoiled by the pretty good story, excellent driving controls and colorful city, GTA4 would have been a LOT more stunning, now its just kinda cool ... in its own way I guess. |
Paperboy Posts: 44 Joined: 6 Mar 2008 |
No, Im afraid their "sandboxness" isnt debatable, it simply is sandbox. And for the record, I never meant to suggest Morrowind was done before GTA III, its merely guilty of the same thing. Evolving the already nailed down sandbox into 3D - thats it. As for your suggestion that GTA III *IS* sandbox, while Morrowind isnt, well Im sorry but thats absolute complete and total bollocks. No offence. What GTA III did was give you an open (until you unlock all of it that is *cough**cough*) city to explore and engage in various activities. What Morrowind did was give you an island of a specific country to explore and engage in various activities. Both of these games are only the way they are because their predecessors did almost exactly that but with limited technology on a 2D format. Honestly, it baffles me the praise people lump on GTA III for sandbox style (and to a lesser extend, Morrowind) when it was already done before. Arena (made about 3/4 years before the first GTA I reckon) gave you a massive world to play in. Granted, it was lo-tech, but thats irrelevant - that was obviously one of the starting points of this "sandbox" gameplay (which is a term I never use outside of discussing them). The fact that the more modern games were simply 3D doesnt mean shit to me. GTA III is so similar to the older GTA games in some gameplay elements its pretty shocking. Honestly, there is a reason why they gave you that archaic top down camera angle. Why dont you go back to GTA III and play as much of the game as you can in that angle? See if your impression of the game changes any? Whatever nit-picks you bring up in GTA III's favour, it doesnt change the fact that it wasnt the first to pull off what is essentially sandbox. It was just the most popular. Like you said, its merely the modern action elements that attracted more people - people who had no interest in exploring an open ended fantasy world that The Elder Scrolls offered long before. And Im sorry if I offended you Portal lovers, but that game was only available on 360 in a bundle (and Im assuming off Steam for PC, though Im not certain), and was terribly short. Its basically a professional quality mod in my opinion. Oh sure, its great comic writing and the portal system had me wowed the moment I saw the vid showing it off way back. However, its also "hip" now, and Im not swayed by "hip" stuff alone. Still, many of my favourite games get dismissed for being too deep or wordy. I am a person who personally ranks Planescape: Torment as one of the greatest games ever made. That might explain a few things about differences in taste in this thread. Portal isnt the "Mona Lisa" to me, Baldurs Gate is, Torment is. Though I dont play only RPG's mind you, they are just in my favourite game list a little more. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2713 Joined: 7 Feb 2008 |
Good point, I do most of my foruming at work and my idea collection within my own head here is pretty aweful hence implying that the Elder Scrolls games aren't sandbox, which they are, and in the case of Morrowind, a pretty detailed one. My main arguement for GTA3, at the moment, over GTA's 1 and 2 is that it offers a whole different FEELING to the gameplay. In the previous games you couldn't really do things like drive a firetruck off of a bridge, smashing it into an armored car you're robbing, or drive off the top of a parking garage onto the adjacent roof. In my opinion the 3d adds so much to the GTA franchise that the generation gap is enormous (i.e. there's a reason why I never just used the top down mode, the game does, in my opinion, feel different) and while I'm a fan of 2d, it is not the ideal way to do first person or open world games where one gets so much more from 3D. Though I'm still writing from work, so all that may have sounded aweful... oh well. |
Paperboy  Posts: 14 Joined: 14 May 2008 | well i got it on teh day of relase but ive been playin it slowly as ive had lots of college stuff to do. so far though i think rockstar have grown up with GTA 4 but kept wa |
but by your logic nothing would ever get a real score as it may be 95.6 so 956 but what if its 956.7 ect.