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Improving the JRPG for the Next Generation.

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PedroSteckecilo
Gone Gonzo
Posts: 2715
Joined: 7 Feb 2008

I notice a lot of hate for JRPG's on this board so I propose a question...

What conventions should JRPG's either discard, change or add in order to sever their ties with the past and bring themselves into the Next Generation of Gaming. Try to avoid the straight "JRPG's are stupid! Only Oblivion is allowed!" arguements one sees so often on these board and try to keep things in the tone of a discussion rather than a fight.

Here are some of my personal suggestions...

1) Non-Random On-Screen Encounters: Is the seperate Battle Screen so necessary anymore? Chrono Trigger discarded it way back in the day, FFXII did it recently and most WRPG's don't use it as a rule.

2) Less Luke, more Han Solo: I am tired of playing as barely out of puberty 17 year olds who look like girls. Give me some mature heroes with real motivations, not some fresh of the farm Luke Skywalker clone! I want some bad ass pirate, or a grizzled war hero as my lead. Balthier or Basch should have been the main character of FFXII, for example, not Vaan.

3) Save the World? Been there, done that: While this seems like the most "epic" plot available, why not shake it up, this has been the convention for YEARS. Give me Political Intrigue with Earthly Goals! Let me have a dark tale of betrayal and redemtion without a "save the world" plot tacked onto the end. Why not do a survival tale, or a mystery, there are many other stories out there, and they can be just as epic. These have been done (see Suikoden Series) and can be done again, give it a try.

That's all the time I've got right now, more later.

sammyfreak
Gone Gonzo
Posts: 1556
Joined: 5 Dec 2007

Basicly what you said, especially more of Balthier types instead of Vaan's.

I also would like some evolution of the battle mechanics, FFXII improved them alot and XIII looks like it will take them even longer.

Necrohydra
Muckraker
Posts: 322
Joined: 18 Jan 2008

Regarding your comments on the hate for JRPG's on these boards...well, that seems to be the prime user base here *or, at least, the most vocal ones*. Try saying anything negative about half-life here..I can guarantee you'll cause pages of responses that will basically amount to "What are you thinking, half-life is AWESOME." There are those of us who like and play JRPGs, let me say that.

As for you suggestions, I..agree entirely. Particularly on the random-encounters one - systems have more than enough power to show the enemy blips on the screen.

@sammyfreak - there are some games out there that do the whole *turn based I-hit-you, you-hit -me mechanic differently, or don't do it at all. Grandia's battle mechanics are far different than, say, Valkyrie Profile's. And both of those are different from the battle mechanic you may be thinking of from FF1 days.

Nugoo
Muckraker
Posts: 265
Joined: 25 Jan 2008

I suspect that almost every suggestion on this thread will amount to, "Make them more like wRPG's." That being said, I'd love a hybrid of Japanese and western style RPG's. The biggest change I'd like to see in jRPG's is different armour. The main character wearing chain mail shouldn't look exactly the same as when s/he wears plate mail.

sammyfreak
Gone Gonzo
Posts: 1556
Joined: 5 Dec 2007

Yeah I guess I base my view of JRPG's on the FF games since they are the only ones i have played. Except Golden Sun but that was a 100% rippof.

Noobzorz
Anonymous Source
Posts: 5
Joined: 15 May 2008

When I saw that people who loathe JRPGs are overwhelmingly represented, I decided that it was time to consider signing up for an account.

When I saw that people are willing to defend Half-Life to the death, that was it. It was immediately time to sign up.

Here's the problem with JRPGs:

It's no secret that Japanese gamers are, in general, of lower ability than their North American gamers. Stop for a second before you say "LULZ, NOEZ." It is true. It is most certainly true, and the massive difficulty rebalancing that occurs to increase the challenge offered on Japanese games during localization is a testament to this fact.

That's kind of irrelevant, except that most Japanese games tend to be kind of mindless and robotic. JRPGs are this in spades.

If you play Final Fantasy for the gameplay, you're insane. As a series veteran, I stand by this 100%.

So the logical things to play Final Fantasy for are the story development and just the plain ol' fun of building super characters.

It's also no secret that Japanese stories tend to be off their ****ing rocker. See MGS and FF7 for why this is true. Final Fantasy has become a little less insane as of late, but the FFXII story still had massive glaring problems (what the **** happened to the Occuria? why did Venat and whatshisface turn into a giant monster? etc. etc.).

Essentially, they're dense, they're tough to get into, they offer almost no immediate satisfaction, and they often just aren't very good. Buoying them in North America is a massive culture of anime nerds, and that is why they have made it this far.

So yes, essentially I'm doing exactly what you guys anticipated, but that's just how it is. The truth hurts.

Hanji
Copy Clerk
Posts: 71
Joined: 27 Mar 2008

Vaan was not the main character of Final Fantasy XII. The narratives of Bathier, Basch, Ashe, and even many NPCs were all more elaborately conveyed. Describing the magnitude of Vaan's participation as excessive or superfluous is still reasonable. Falsely magnifying said magnitude, however, skews the issue entirely.

Random-Encounters: I find them detrimental to game flow, but feel omission of them lessens the potential gravitas of any battle. In FFXII I missed the ornate execution of more powerful spells. Thundaga was a modest spark compared to FFVIII, wherein the air blackened and the ground wrinkled, harbinger of an incandescent paroxysm. Such severity is more reasonable when time is allowed to pause and all combatants have a fixed position. Even FFXII withdrew from its open vista to perform Quickenings. I understand and appreciate the benefits of removing random encounters, but am not against their inclusion.

Personae: This is incredibly variable, as adhering to any mold of character design causes problems. I like or dislike characters (in critique of their composition) individually, groups and classifications are irrelevant. If it is well done, it should not matter, and usually does not.

Objectives: A gist similar to Personae.

As I have rarely been disappointed by the gameplay of JRPGs, I would primarily enjoy deeper undertones. Most I have played are philosophically insignificant outside of their Canon, regardless of quality. There are some moments of lasting intrigue, such as SMT: Nocturne, or the ideals of Vayne and Venat in FFXII, but few. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2, WRPG, albeit unfinished and mechanically erroneous, is sublime in what I gained from its narrative. BioShock provides an incredible lesson in perspective, and is not even an RPG.

I suppose my opinion is not entirely applicable to this discussion, however, because I am fond of JRPGs.

Zethios
Anonymous Source
Posts: 9
Joined: 14 May 2008

I do prefer jrpg's although my only experience is FF and Star Ocean.

Jeeze my friend and I have this discussion once a week, which goes down to NO JAPAN IS TEH GAY AND SO AR YOUU.

I would prefer Han solo though, and Basch too.

I think most people would like it the exact opposite of epic. Like, steal the treasure as the main goal throughout and then maybe save the princess if you get around to it. And then only if you get some sort of... monetary compensation.

I think being the 'Bad Guy' and remaing the bad guy would be quite intersting plot.

It is also unforunate that my only completions of just the story line of an Rpg is like 3 out of ten.

AlbeyAmakiir
Anonymous Source
Posts: 4
Joined: 1 May 2008

"that's just how it is. The truth hurts." This, 'truth' doesn't really hurt me. I like the weirdness in Jap games (especially MGS). I blame American movies for that. Boring and predictable as all hell.

Also, "...the massive difficulty rebalancing that occurs to increase the challenge offered on Japanese games during localization..." What? Haven't you played any JRPGs that have been merely fan-translated? They wouldn't dare touch any code but the text for fear of screwing the whole thing up, and they are still just as hard. Where on earth did you get that idea?

That said, I agree that random encounters are a bit dated, but I've always believed that if battle mechanics were more fun, then it wouldn't be much of a problem. It should encourage exploration, meaning that even if you don't find something, you at least get experience, but that doesn't happen.

Other than that, I wouldn't change anything about JRPGs. I get tired of WRPGs to easily.

Danowar
Anonymous Source
Posts: 1
Joined: 15 May 2008

Persona 3

/thread

ThaBenMan
Gone Gonzo
Posts: 1113
Joined: 6 Mar 2008

Well, this is the way I look at it - "JRPG" is a genre unto itself. Making those changes would be like saying "Ok, let's improve the FPS - we should make it not first person anymore, and take out the shooting."

Well, maybe not quite as drastic as that. But there is definitely a huge audience that loves them the way they are. Those attributes are what makes it a JRPG.

(I will agree that random encounters suck, though.)

Fenixius
Muckraker
Posts: 229
Joined: 5 Feb 2007

There appears to be lots of ripping on random encounters, but I have no problem with the game view changing to accomodate a different style of combat. Real-time combat is overrated. Let's take three of the most famous WRPG's (off the top of my head, anyway): Fable, Mass Effect, Oblivion. Three different developers, and yet none of these games, which all have realtime combat, have excellent realtime combat. Fable comes the closest to great combat, with a nicely integrated ranged, melee and magic systems overlayed. It was pretty well done, though it was fairly shallow. Mass Effect's combat was lacklustre, with a pretty good cover system, but extremely samey run-and-gun-and-power combat from start to finish. There just wasn't any depth. On the highest difficulty open from the first playthrough (Veteran), as a soldier, every single combat was a cinch. On the next one unlocked (Hardcore, from memory?), it got a little tougher, and as I was a less combat-oriented class, I actually had to use spells and buffs. But every fight was the same, and required the same of me. I could probably come up with an algorithm you could loop to win every single fight in that game. Not that ME was a bad game, it just had boring combat. And Oblivion's combat was terrible. The melee system was sort of cool, until you actually had to fight more than one thing at a time. Which was all the time. The Magic was sort of unwieldey, working like a slow-firing ranged weapon with regenerating ammunition. And the ranged combat with bows was, as far as I could tell, nigh useless in terms of effectiveness, though I must say that I never really gave it that much of a chance there.

Now, let's look at, say, Pokemon. The combat in Pokemon is the reason you play Pokemon, mainly 'cause there's nothing else. You build your team, and charge. The combat has a strength-weakness grid in the form of the elements, each pokemon has its own individual strengths and weaknesses, and the enemies will throw all sorts of combinations at you. Not only that, but it's the only game mentioned in my post so far that's multiplayer. While I believe that Fable 2 will have multiplayer, it's not out yet, and doesn't count. Evolving your pokemon squad is important and enjoyable. And yet, it's turn based, not realtime. The random battles aren't particularly annoying, as they all tend to be very short, and can yield exciting rewards (new pokemans, new moves, or evolutions).

WRPG's tend to let the player in on more in-depth statistics, which I'm certainly not averse to, but JRPG's tend to have more interesting plots, from my experience. And much more entertaining combat. Take Oblivion as a prime example of a WRPG. It had an incredible amount of customisation options for the player, but very little structure, a generic plot without any characters we really get a chance to like, and with mediocre combat that fills the hole, but doesn't do it particularly well. Compare with, say, Final Fantasy VI Advance, which I've just played through. 2D and spritey, and without a particularly intuitive or dramatic customisation system, yet the combat system is, in my opinion at least, much more thoroughly enjoyable than Oblivion. Additionally, FFVIA had a plot full of actual characters who grow over time, as opposed to Oblivions largely cardboard-cutout NPC cast. The sandbox world isn't as large, and the game doesn't feature nearly as advanced technology as Oblivion, but I'd pick Final Fantasy VI Advance every time. Of course, that's only two games, but the general trends hold. Fable was pretty and had pretty fun combat, but didn't have a particularly deep customisation system (though a versatile one), next to no characterisation for anyone, and a plot that I could have written. That's not to say that all WRPG's have a rubbishy story, but most tend to skimp on one section of the game, whether it's the story and characters, or the combat system.

I find JRPG's to be a more balanced gameplay experience. That said, I AM basing my JRPG experiences mostly off of Final Fantasy and Pokemon, as I've not played many others. But, going by the experience I have, that's the conclusion I drew; WRPG's just don't end up with a balanced and as thoroughly enjoyable a gameplay system as JRPG's.

Sektor88
Anonymous Source
Posts: 10
Joined: 11 May 2008

There are some JRPGs like the Xenosaga and .hack//GU series, as well as Persona 3, which don't have "random" encounters, but rather, have enemies on-screen that you can either ambush and get into a fight with or run the hell away from. And the gameplay for some (of the three, namely in .hack//GU) is far from the traditional "I hit you hit me" mantra that JRPGS are well known for, instead it's real-time battling/attacking and command-distributing to allies.

So, if the complaints are "random encounter and I hit-you-you hit me slapfests are 'teh lame'", then maybe more real-time battle RPGs should be introduced. Just a thought.

Anarchemitis
Gone Gonzo
Posts: 4492
Joined: 23 Dec 2007

Make more not RPGs with linear levels. I want open world, like Flight Simulator X open world.

avykins
Pulitzer Laureate
Posts: 776
Joined: 8 May 2008

Random Encounters
I was really happy with FFXII for getting rid of random encounters. I mean I recently tried to replay FFVIII and back in the day I absolutly loved that game. Even now I think back to its story with fondness. However every time it changed screen it added like 15 seconds, the battle bar took forever. Bascially even a fight your chars are strong enough to win in the first round is still going to take 30-45 seconds and thats if noone casts any spells.
I would like to see more Kingdom Hearts style of fighting. Fast, efficient and just fun. Anyone remember Star Ocean IIs battle system ?

Storyline
For the most part you never lose a main character in JRPGs. The very very few times you do you immediatly get a replacment who has the same level and all the abilities of your recently departed friend. Mature the storyline a little more. Yes I know there are exceptions to the rule and anyone who says "Kefka" I will personally rape while dressed as a clown. But I want more violence. I want to come across half butchered bodies laying in the fields. Towns covered in blood when the inhabitants been slaughtered.

And yeah last point is the armour. One of my favourite thigns about Legend of Legaia was every single weapon/armour was totally different on your character. Then Legaia 2: Duel Saga decided it wasn't worth the hassle...

Edit: The Class System
I know that the latter FF series is a bad one for this but waaaaay back it was one of their strongest points. Nowadays its just everyone is equal in most respects apart from a few special attacks. I want to go back to the days when your character was a theif or a mage and that was what they were. No making them valuable in every situation. If I want a mage I know its going to have alot of MP fuck all HP damn near zero attacking power but when it gets the later on spells it can clear the field easily. Now its just like every single character is exactly the same just witha different skin.

Stammer
Pulitzer Laureate
Posts: 720
Joined: 16 Apr 2008

I can think of one Final Fantasy that has everything a normal Final Fantasy has, but with the kind of "upgrades" you guys are discussing. I'm referring to Tactics. First of all, the main character, though only 20-some aught years old, is mature enough and mysterious enough to not be considered another Vaan or Tidus.

Secondly, the random encounters. You basically choose whether or not you want to fight. Worst case scenario, you accidentally hit one or two on your way across the map to your next storyline fight. In said battles, it's incredibly turn-based, but also very balanced. You combine both the FF11(FF12) maneuverability of an outside battle with awesome effects. Have your Time Mage cast Meteor and tell me it's not brilliant.

As for storyline, it's got an amazing one much like every other Final Fantasy. In fact, Tactics has probably half as much backstory as FF11, which is a really enormous amount. Yes you do wind-up saving the world, but it's almost entirely on accident. You start off in the middle of a war, learn of the special Stones, and on your way to save your sister, you go ahead and kill St. Ajora.

Stammer
Pulitzer Laureate
Posts: 720
Joined: 16 Apr 2008

avykins:
Edit: The Class System
I know that the latter FF series is a bad one for this but waaaaay back it was one of their strongest points. Nowadays its just everyone is equal in most respects apart from a few special attacks. I want to go back to the days when your character was a theif or a mage and that was what they were. No making them valuable in every situation. If I want a mage I know its going to have alot of MP fuck all HP damn near zero attacking power but when it gets the later on spells it can clear the field easily. Now its just like every single character is exactly the same just witha different skin.

Final Fantasy XI pretty much re-invented the class system from its peers. I dunno, but I think FF7, as great of a game as it was, started the decline of the Final Fantasy series in that very sense. What happened to all of the old-school customization? In FF10, your characters can only have two different pieces of equipment on at once (one weapon, one armor), and you can become super-powerful in any way. On my file, Yuna hits for 9999 damage with her physical attack. Should a Summoner really be allowed to do that?

Papaya Melancholy
Paperboy
Posts: 35
Joined: 6 Apr 2008

I grew up on JRPGs: they are close to my heart. However, they all seem like crap nowadays, (excepting FFXII.) I used to love their artistic qualities, their plots, but most of all, their exotic mystique. Maybe they have changed lately, because all I see are these lame cartoony adventures with cutesy anime characters and too many stats.

I hate stats.

You know, I love Final Fantasy, but I have never beaten one of them.
Too much grinding! I don't want to go around fighting meaningless battles!
I usually end up giving up halfway through because there is a boss who is too hard and I can't be bothered to level up enough to beat it.

But I hate WRPGs even more. They have little artistic value, no mystique, and their plots range from lame to acceptable, but not above.

To bring back the JRPG goodness, I suggest : more mystique, less stats, and more plain good ideas.
You know?
I hate stats.
Like what stammer said about Yuna.

Mnemophage
Beat Writer
Posts: 179
Joined: 13 Mar 2008

One of the things that makes the JRPG work is how ridiculous and over-the-top it is. The reason the cliches stick around for as long as they have is because they are somehow still compelling; they're dated, though and thus undergoing a bit of remodeling. The mute, underage hero is as old as the genre, but still provides a perfect, bland backdrop for whatever murderous psychopath you decide to present yourself as. The random encounters are... okay, still distracting, actually, but given some means to avoid, affect or complete them outside of battle, along with a fun battle system with some actual pace and timing to it, it can be improved dramatically. The linear storyline is a side-effect of the genre, and linear does not immediately equal bad.

There are some things, though...

More freedom in your interaction with the world would be damn welcome indeed. If in some bizarro wish-fulfillment world I end up as a game developer, I'm going to hire my cousin as a quality tester. Not because she's thorough or nerdy or will ruthlessly ferret out bugs, but because she's played two video games before and would look at whatever I'm making from a fresh perspective. If I catch her bumping endlessly into a cow, asking me why she can't milk it, then I take her complaint seriously. Little touches like that - perhaps useless in gameplay, perhaps useless in every way - add more atmosphere to the world. They present a more believable environment, they permit the player to screw around and have fun in their own way, and they show that the developer cares enough to apply a little lipstick to their squalling virtual fetus. Leave corpses scattered about after a random battle, and let your player bury/decapitate them. Let them do more than just ransack the chests and drawers in NPC homes - let them put the kettle on, run the faucet, jump on the bed and eat the soap. Let them stop and smell the roses. Or pick them, or incinerate them. It shows us you care.

What else would be fun... aha, I know, ways of advancing that are not tied to combat. The random battle thing is the core of the JRPG, the ancient wooden dowel that the whole gnarly noose is swung from. But the fact that it is the ONLY method of gameplay can be frustrating and exhausting. Don't just let us acquire items outside of battle - why not experience? Why can't we advance if we, say, achieve a potent storyline point? Or if we do fifty chin-ups? Or if we eat a fairy? In that vein: why is the strength of our sword-arm the only way in which our characters are measured? Why doesn't our Intelligence score manage not only how much MP we have, but how quickly and aptly our characters figure out puzzles and plot elements on their own? Turn-based combat is like stone soup. On its own, it's a rock in a pot. The more exotic extras you add, however, the more flavorful and enjoyable the brew becomes.

And finally, a little pet peeve: STOP WITH THE SCHIZOPHRENIC COSTUME DESIGN. Seriously people. I cannot become emotionally attached to a character with a straight-up navy blue hairdo and lime-green strappy top. Anyone who can has brain disease. Show us how awesome you art-types can be while also being minimalist (and no, that doesn't mean thongs and bikinis; that means t-shirts and slacks). PLEASE.

bobraj
Paperboy
Posts: 25
Joined: 7 Feb 2008

I haven't played a JRPG since Chronotrigger on my cousin's SNES mainly because of all the problems that have been mentioned in this thread. However, I decided to pick up The World Ends With You on the DS and it feels like a breath of fresh air in this rather stale genre. There are far too many cool features for me list but a look at the reviews on IGN and Games Tm magazine (UK) should give you a better idea of what I am talking about.

Fenixius
Muckraker
Posts: 229
Joined: 5 Feb 2007

@Mnemophage:

Haha, nice post. You're right, though, on those 3 points. In fact, that sounds very much like what WRPG's tend to have, but to the detriment of one element or another. You said that we should be able to advance outside of combat. Most games I've seen that involve this don't do anything with it; all the stats which improve when you level are tied to combat. The charisma modifier only affects the roll of the dice during a conversation. It's more important to pick the right path through it, though, so even that has a minimal effect.

Mnemophage:
Why doesn't our Intelligence score manage not only how much MP we have, but how quickly and aptly our characters figure out puzzles and plot elements on their own?

I'll tell you why. And this is a good reason, even though it has the drawback you mentioned. If you let the character figure out puzzles/plot elements, then we're not. It takes away from the player, which is why noone does it. It'd be interesting to see someone do as you say and have the character try to figure things out on their own, which would lead to an interesting player-character dynamic much like a movie where you go "IT'S BEHIND YOU!" and the guy takes another few steps and gets stabbed in the back. It'd be interesting to see a game play out like that, where whatever your man does is the result of your influence, but not direct action. I have no idea how it would play, really, and I doubt that any publisher would be willing to take a financial risk like that. But we can dream...

About your pet peeve - you just described Marge Simpson, if you dye her hair slightly darker and give her dress some straps. Was that intentional, or just lucky? Normal people aren't as interesting as guys with swords that are taller than they are and have hair so spikey it looks like you could impale someone on it, anyway, so I'm not too upset by it. Not usually, at least.

@Stammer, avykins:

Hell yeah. You guys played FFV Advance? Each class levels up independantly of each other, so you could set one guy to Knight and have him level it for a bit, then set him to White Mage and give him some of the attributes and abilities you got from Knight, to make a sort of Paladin. You could cross a White and Black caster to make a versatile magic user, or replace one of those with Red to give them Dualcast for White or Dualcast for Black instead of just the limited Red spell list. I added a Samurai ability to a Mystic Knight to create an awesome magic swordsman with crazy combat tricks. It was a fantastic system. In fact... if we could combine it with FFTA's job system (where you gain access to new jobs by learning abilities in existing ones; ie: learn 5 Black Mages abilities and gain access to Time Mage) and we'll have the best system ever. Ever. If only Final Fantasy V had a more meaningful and evocative plotline... unfortunately, it was a bit generic, when you compare it with FFVI and FFIV.

avykins:
But I want more violence. I want to come across half butchered bodies laying in the fields. Towns covered in blood when the inhabitants been slaughtered.

A more mature JRPG would be nice, wouldn't it? Would that compromise the fantastical setting, though? Some (above) have said that it's the bizzare world in which JRPG's are set that makes them work. I wonder if that quirky, over-the-top style can coexist with such violence and darkness... and then I go watch a Quentin Tarantino movie and say "Oh hell yes". Note: Fenixius recommends From Dusk Till Dawn, a movie directed by Quentin Tarantino and Robert Rodriguez

avykins:
Yes I know there are exceptions to the [no main playable character death] rule and anyone who says "Kefka" I will personally rape while dressed as a clown.

Alright, I won't mention FFVI's villain. Aeris. *runs and hides*

@ Anarchemitis:

Anarchemitis:
Make more not RPGs with linear levels. I want open world, like Flight Simulator X open world.

You want more games that aren't RPG's to be linear? We have heaps of them... Or you want more RPG's with open worlds? Yeah, that can be fun, but then it becomes all too sandboxy and we lose the plot and structure which can make games great. Of course, open world games are good too (GTA, etc), but not so much when we talk about statistic based RPG's. And take note, Papaya Melancholy, every RPG you've ever played is stat based. The only variable is how much they let you in on it, whether it's D20 based and you can know every roll of the dice if you so choose, or Final Fantasy, where you have stats and you can see them change, but never learn exactly how they correspond to attack damage and other values.

@Bobraj: I've heard really, really good things about The World Ends With You, but I don't have a DS on which to play it :(

I love long posts, by the way.

Niniux
Copy Clerk
Posts: 102
Joined: 14 Apr 2008

Personally, I wish more JRPGs adopted the Earthbound approach to combat. You see enemies on the screen. You can try getting a surprise attack. You can try avoiding them. If they are significantly below your level you get an auto-win. And then it goes to a seperate fun battle screen. It'd still work perfectly in games like the Final Fantasy series and helps the game remain true to the genre while eliminating some of the complaints.

I've started playing Lost Odyssey and I realized that I really love turn based combat. There's just something about it that suits the game. Sure, I like Mass Effect and Gears of War too, but I am not sure real-time battles suit the JRPG style.

Magnetic2
Beat Writer
Posts: 171
Joined: 18 Mar 2008

I love the conciseness of DnD and how it handles in late game. I find most JRPGs fall about around the end with some characters doing 1202 damage a hit with there most powerful move, and others do 50000 with their regular attack. What I like most though are the huge numbers and super bonanza moves, they keep the game dynamic and have that "holy shit" affect, just try and keep it balanced (Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne did this well). We need characters with more realism, that's it. No more of this fourteen year old boy is pouting one second about how powerless he his then one shotting bosses with his overpowered emasculate attack. FF Tactics did this and it was cool, Ramza comes into battle late in the game saying "Leave and I won't have to kill you". Please, do something with the story line other then evil will destroy world, but it's not this evil, it's a secret evil that pops up right after you take care of the first one.

Make women that flirt with the boys, or at least make sensible conversation.
Make magic that's on par with physical abilities. Seriously, I am tired of specializing characters for magic earlier in the game to find out at the end they only do 1/10 the damage of physical fighters at high MP cost.
When someone dies, leave them dead.

Do keep things simpler than DnD. If even just a little.
Do keep wacky side quest for obscenely powerful stuff.
Do keep the large numbers.
Do keep the Cyber/Medivel stuff, sword guns man, sword guns.

But please, stop making characters that are head cases, no one cares about their lost memory/daddy/pendent/town, I got bills to pay, your problems pale in comparison.

Squarewave
Copy Clerk
Posts: 98
Joined: 30 Apr 2008

The only thing I hate in jrpgs is the trend to have little kids (under the age of 14) fighting monsters.
I like turn based combat (I hated FFXII ' hey lets make it a mmo you play offline')
I can live without random encounters but they don't bug me
Having the main characters not look like steroid pumping football players is a plus to me

For example Lost Odyssey, the first 10 hours or so of the game is amazing with a nice story and challenging combat. Ten hours in however it goes downhill fast as 2 kids of around 9 and 11 join the group. Not only does the level up system require at least one of the kids to be in the party but every cutscene after involve the kids in some way and 9/10 its a scene with the kids are scared of fighting a monster. At least it was for 10 hours after they joined I couldn't take it anymore and stopped playing it. It was a lot worse then what I make it sound but would have to spoil the story to say how

Seldon2639
Muckraker
Posts: 227
Joined: 21 Feb 2008

Never, never, never again have a major part of the game be about missing memories. FFVII was annoying about it, FFVIII made me want to break my playstation over my knee.

If you're going to have a plot involving some kind of ultimate evil, have the basis for that evil be something other than "some dude went crazy". Sephiroth just wanted to destroy things, sure he'd gain power, but come on. All of the Fire Emblem games revolve around "someone invaded another country in order to start the ball rolling on releasing some kind of ultimate evil". If someone wants to bring the god of chaos into the world, that's fine, but he needs more reason than "I got bored".

Allow for some personalization of the game. I don't want to make it too much like Oblivion, but take a page out of Mass Effect: allow the player to choose who dies. Even make it that choices that wouldn't seem to have an effect help determine who dies. It'd be like the date from FFVII, but with death.

Stop forcing us to use side characters. If I never want to use anyone except the first three characters, by god, I'm only going to use those characters. Stop having my best group be kidnapped, or become separated, and make me use the crappy other characters I'd forget about if at all possible

Liven up the story. I liked in FFXII that loyalties were shifting, and you didn't always have a good idea who the "good" guys were. Moral ambiguity is part of life, make it part of the game.

If you're going to get rid of random encounters, figure out a better fleeing system. Otherwise, especially since bad guys respawn, you really screw the player.

Learning makes sense for magic skills. Learning doesn't make sense for swords. If you want a jobs system, divorce the jobs (which should bring specific skills) from the ability to use specific weapons.

Stop trying to explain how the mystical stuff works in the world. We just accepted that materia worked, and even went with the "condensed lifestream" thing, but that's as far as you need to explain. When you start talking magicite, and how it does... Something, you kill the imagination.

Not everything has to be tied into a neat little bow at the end. I know this flies in the face of a lot of belief, but we *don't* need to know how all the characters ended up, or about all of their backstories and views on the world. We don't always need a rock-solid explanation for why something happened, or why a bad guy did something.

But, don't make the bad guy shady and almost all-powerful. I call it "Voldemort syndrome", it's where you completely divorce the bad guy from the story except as a macguffin. If you're going to make a single guy represent the entire driving force behind the antagonist element, make him a real person. Kefka and Sephiroth were just crazy, Vayne was pure evil. Sin literally *was* pure evil, sort of. And, no "he wants the power to rule the world" isn't sufficient motivation.

It doesn't always need to proceed from earthly bad guy to ultimate evil. Just once I'd like to see the big, shadowy, evil being manipulated by an earthly guy.