Well, it all depends on how the difficulty works.

For Example, shooters. Most of them play the health see-saw, where if you turn the difficulty up, you lose the health but your foes gain it. And if you turn the difficulty down, you gain health and your enemies lose it. While this is OK to an extent, It does not replace a good AIwho will break up and try to flank you, or react quicker.

I only like difficult games when the difficulty isn't cheap, difficult-for-the-sake-of-it sort of stuff. Some games are "difficult" because they require so much playing time to get even close to half finishing them (I'm looking at you Final Fantasy games). A game like Ninja Gaiden is doubly special because it all about skill.

I'm in the 'variable difficulty' camp. I usually play the game on normal, to soak in the story and learn the gameplay. Then I'll go to hard if I want to face the challenge. If you can change the difficulty from "your mum can do it" to something like Veteran or Hard in GRAW, I think that's the middle ground.

shatnershaman:

HomeAliveIn45:

Something difficult. Here's an extreme example; If you became the CEO of a company after starting as a poor farmboy (no, that's not my screenplay I'm trying to get made) as opposed to inheriting it from your father , wouldn't that make you feel a little prouder?

Nope all I care about is the final result.

well if you only care about the final result, why do you play games? which will eventually end with nothing more than you switch the box off. achieving nothing tangible.

Wargamer:
Allow me to give an example of "Hard" vs "Easy".

I am currently trying to earn the Foxhound Medal on MGS4. This means I've got to do the game in under six hours (or was is 5 hours 30 mins? anyway...) and without being spotted.

This makes the game SO FUCKING ANNOYING that it has taken me a WEEK to do the first act.

Playing through normally, I can do it in an hour or so. Because the Foxhound Medal is so hard to get, having to quit and restart so often, I get totally pissed off and abandon it for days at a time.

So hard games are not really that fun. What I like is a challenging game. I don't want it to be a dull, boring cakewalk that in a retarded pre-teen Halo 3 Fanboy can do, but neither do I want to have to spend 20 hours a day mastering some obscure tactic and combo to win. Oh, and in case the team behind Mario Kart is reading; IT IS NOT FUCKING FUN FOR EVERY SINGLE RACER TO RED-SHELL ME THREE INCHES FROM THE FINISH LINE!!! I don't care if it's 150cc! If I am half a mile ahead and 10 seconds from the line, I should be UNTOUCHABLE!

HAH! I got big boss emblem after about 4 weeks of trying. But it was weird, because when I saw the screen that said I did it, I was all like screaming and jumping and shit, and my roomates all like "dude it's just a frucking game".
And I'm all like..."Oh..." And I look around my dorm and see all the pop cans and shit and then I got really depressed. What were we talking about again?

It depends heavily on the genre of game, but i do like a certain challenge to my games. But not Ninja Gaiden 2 kind of challenging, frustration is not something i want out of a game :P

corporate_gamer:

shatnershaman:

HomeAliveIn45:

Something difficult. Here's an extreme example; If you became the CEO of a company after starting as a poor farmboy (no, that's not my screenplay I'm trying to get made) as opposed to inheriting it from your father , wouldn't that make you feel a little prouder?

Nope all I care about is the final result.

well if you only care about the final result, why do you play games? which will eventually end with nothing more than you switch the box off. achieving nothing tangible.

End result of fun (I have nothing better to do(I get my work done before gaming and I have no good books))

I like games that are challenging in a way in which if I die its my own fault and not because the game cheats or require me to be psychic. For example the final part of HL ep2 ware you have to toss the bombs on to the strider things was challenging in a good way even if it was beyond frustrating. Challenging in a bad way is for example is the snipers in Perfect dark zero, ware they can kill you in a few hits but you have no idea what direction the shot came from or can even see them w/o a zooming scope, forcing a replay of the full level dozens of times till the AI misses you enough for you to find the shooters

I want a game that will kick my ass sometimes, one I will really have to work for to beat, but the quality has to be good because if it isn't then I won't play because it isn't worth my time.

HomeAliveIn45:

HomeAliveIn45:

HomeAliveIn45:
What's the point of playing if you accomplish nothing?

My logic is inescapable.

Something difficult. Here's an extreme example; If you became the CEO of a company after starting as a poor farmboy (no, that's not my screenplay I'm trying to get made) as opposed to inheriting it from your father , wouldn't that make you feel a little prouder?

Lol I don't post often but this guy's posts crack me up. These quotes are too ridiculous...he has to be kidding, right?

The game must require at least some learning on my part to win. It's why I tend to stay away from rpg's these days (particularly the Japanese kind) because your progress is directly tied to how long you've spent on the game? Can't beat that boss? Grind more. I like to come away from a game knowing I've improved myself even if it's in a small and relatively pointless way.

Hmm.

I want a challenge. I want to be pushed. But this shouldn't really involve dieing more than a couple of times. No exceptions.

Pushing your limits is always good, makes you feel like you actually accomplished something in the world of gaming. But if a game is at the point where you just stop playing because its so annoyingly difficult, I despise them.

I always play games on "normal" difficulty level first. I do that because I think thatīs how developers imagined their game to be played. Also, games have become easier to complete nowadays (especially when it comes to FPS:s, almost impossible to die, all we are required to do is to hide and wait. That is rather pointless!

corporate_gamer:

shatnershaman:

HomeAliveIn45:

Something difficult. Here's an extreme example; If you became the CEO of a company after starting as a poor farmboy (no, that's not my screenplay I'm trying to get made) as opposed to inheriting it from your father , wouldn't that make you feel a little prouder?

Nope all I care about is the final result.

well if you only care about the final result, why do you play games? which will eventually end with nothing more than you switch the box off. achieving nothing tangible.

You achieve nothing tangible either way. The "final result" he was talking about in this case was having fun for a while. The only reason to play games is to have fun in some way. The "sense of achievement" you talk about is the game tricking you into thinking you accomplished something, and for a lot of people, the feeling of beating a difficult game is a lot less important than having fun with the game itself.

I don't really care if the best part of playing a game for you, is when you sit back, put the controller down, and watch the credits scroll. But really, to think that by playing on hard mode, you inherently accomplished anything greater than if you had played on easy, is just plain silly. How much fun you had from the whole experience is the only thing that actually matters.

I don't mind difficult games so long as the difficulty feels "fair". If a puzzle is tough but the clues are there, then I'll keep plugging away; if a puzzle is tough because the game holds back a crucial piece, then stuff it. If NPCs are tougher than me in a shooter, I'll keep finding ways to get those crucial extra rounds into 'em without taking so much fire in return; if NPCs can see through walls and across continents to snipe me at ranges that render them as single pixels, then I'll let the robots kill each other and get back to games humans can play.

-- Steve

I hate games that are too easy. There's no sense of accomplishment when the game holds your hand all the way through. If I wanted to be entertained by something I didn't have to think about, I'd watch a movie.

I want CHALLENGE.

Nothing gives me more joy than beating something that requires skill to get through. Whether it's a rough pattern in a bullet-hell shmup or a fight in an FPS that pushes me to the edge of my health, ammo, and wits, I want the game to push me to the edges of my skill. If that means I die a few times and have to replay a level a few times, so be it.

Easy games are boring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib8MPhzMxlw <- This is a real game.

I'm sorry but I'm one of those who likes 'em hard and dirty. There is nothing like getting really good at really hard games (especially hack 'n slash games like God of War, Ninja Gaiden, Devil May Cry; where getting good means pulling off insane combo chains against the most rock hard and unforgiving enemies you can think of), it's a feeling you will never understand as for you don't enjoy difficult games.

some random guy:
I honestly don't see the point in games being challenging/difficult. Why do developers make games difficult?
Some people say that difficult games are more rewarding and satisfying which is something I personally don't get. It may be more satisfying but that definitely does not make up for the amount of persistence and frustration that went into doing what ever the game asked you to do and the reward is usually another rock hard battle. Something like the first few missions in Mercenaries is just as satisfying as something like Ninja Gaiden Sigma simply because of how fun it is to blow stuff up in that game.
Also, the harder the game, the less I tend to enjoy it. I don't know about you but I certainly don't like being frustrated and prefer to be having fun. I've never found replaying the same bit over and over again fun. I personally found Ratchet and Clank, Tools of Destruction one of the most fun and memorable games of 2007 despite its (lack of) difficulty.
So what do you think, why do some people like games to be difficult/challenging and do you like challenging/difficult games?

The harder it is the more I enjoy it... Could you imagine an RTS game, where you're AI enemies don't even bother to BUILD an army??

Wow, that would be sooooooooooo....... fun...

I can't play an "easy" game. Seeing my enemies run into walls for six hours on an FPS, or just simply WALKING through a level on a game, really doesn't seem like fun. What's the point of playing then?

Unless you talk about story. That's the only time, I could come close to doing it on easy, if I couldn't beat a certain boss.

I like games that are easy enough on lower diffuculties but can be super hard on higher diffuculties (Guitar Hero, CoD 4, ETC.)

I like challenging games, as long as they're challenging for the right reasons.

For me, a good challenge comes from...
-Difficult odds
-Good enemy AI
-Ingenious puzzles
-Interesting choices

Bad challenges come from...
-Retarded AI, both enemies and allies
-Ridiculously hard puzzles (obscure knowledge out-of game knowledge, no in game hints, randomness)
-Impossible odds (i.e. FarCry on any almost any setting, guys see you from half a mile away and shoot you with near perfect accuracy, real nasty when used with Rocket Mercs)
-Bland choices or lack thereof
-Bad controls or poor camera work

If it's painfully difficult with sections that require tactially figuring out... AKA COD4 on extreme, then I love them, or if they'r just stupidly hard, like Ninja Gaiden Sigma

Drakstern:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib8MPhzMxlw <- This is a real game.

Ah, Touhou. It's games like this that make me want to get good at scrolling shooters.

I like a challenge if it's not ridiculous, I don't like it when I
have to throw my controller across the room in frustrastion.
My most recent one is Metal Ice Climbers on Hard mode in SSBM, ;_; They just knock you around and there's nothing you can do about it.

Break:
Ah, Touhou. It's games like this that make me want to get good at scrolling shooters.

Not too hard. Just have to keep practicing.

Though I can't beat that particular stage yet, I can do Hard Mode on most of the Windows games.

And it feels damned good the first time you punch through the final boss on a one credit clear.

I voted for difficulty without getting too ridiculous.

I think when it comes to difficulty in video games, I can accept it so long as there is a good reward waiting for me. By this I refer to my favorite aspect of a good game: Replayability.

Specifically, a game that allows new weapons for the second time around, different modes of play, etc, really makes it all worth it. (See: RE:4, Parasite Eve 2, and so on)

I like a challenge at times. I mean sure the mindless kill everything you see and your some kind of super hero are okay to pass the time for a few minutes, but when I actually want to sit down and play video games I like to thing I am not wasting my time on something a ten year old can do. I like to play games like Rainbow 6 series and GRAW 1 and 2 they're a challenge and make me think so when I look around and see all the dead terrorists and I don't have a scratch on me I kind of feel like I achieved something.

Games like Ninja Gaiden are the limit of my ability. They are very difficult. But I do love it when games are difficult, but not unbeatable. If I don't have any gripes about the controlls, then usually the game dosen't get frustrating for me. I'm looking at you Alone in the Dark! and I don't like games that should be easier than they are like Far Cry. I just started playing... why does it take twenty pistol shots to kill a guy?

I guess that's why difficulty settings have been invented right? ;) I do not play my games on difficult mode. I don't feel much greater accomplishment when a game has been real hard, though I can understand that others do.

Regga_Overallt:
I always play games on "normal" difficulty level first. I do that because I think thatīs how developers imagined their game to be played. Also, games have become easier to complete nowadays (especially when it comes to FPS:s, almost impossible to die, all we are required to do is to hide and wait. That is rather pointless!

I do the same in terms of difficulty and you're probably right about that as well. I disagree with you when it comes to it being impossible to die in FPS's (just from your statement here you've clearly either played most on easy or have had little experience in the genre), many reasons why they're harder than you say:
1. Vision goes blurry when hit- This means that finding cover to heal (such a pain in the ass) and firing back becomes near impossible when all you see is red bloom.
2. Cover to heal- If it's a game where cover is pretty easy to find (like Gears of War) then this isn't a problem, otherwise (like Turok or Halo) you soon find there is nowhere to hide to get your strength (and vision) back since enemies often have an annoying habbit of following and tenderising you while you wait for a good 10-15 seconds.
3. Realism- In the good old days of FPS's (gotta love Duke Nukem and the OLD Turok games) you could wade into a room with a suitibly large minigun/plasma cannon/rocket launcher and obliterate roughly 40 bad guys (depending on difficulty) and look good doing it. In more recent games, trying to repeating this feat of heroism will get you killed before you even step through the doorway because some retard was convieniently placed with a sniper rifle.

Devil May Cry 3... hard, but fun none the less and truly "Crazy" when you get good enough to beat it on Dante Must Die

Solo508:
Having to repeat a sequence so many times that you eventually just beat it because you memorised the locations of every pixel on the screen are just plain annoying.

"You shall not headshot me THIS time Sniper #1,233!!!"
--me playing Outskirts in Halo 2 on Legendary


I enjoy a good challenge, but most games today artificially inflate their difficulty on higher settings, and the game turns Nintendo Hard. Like Halo 2, when the chief can get killed by a strong wind.

HomeAliveIn45:

revolverwolf:

HomeAliveIn45:
What's the point of playing if you accomplish nothing?

The point is to have fun...It is the point of every game ever.

My logic is inescapable, fun is irrelevant.

Fun is the whole fucking point, idiot. Why did you think humanity invented video games?

I like real difficulty. I don't like fake difficulty (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FakeDifficulty). The former makes the game a challenge that I want to beat. The latter just makes me hate the game.

*ignores the flame war perpetuated by frustrated people above*

Ok, difficult games can really piss me off sometimes. Especially if its a really good game and you just wanna progress to the next bit but can't. Easy games also piss me off. When I finish a game that was easy or I pussied out and chose the easy difficulty, I always feel disapointed with how damn easy the game is. To be honest, I love it when games don't have a difficulty selection.