I like your idea PenTheif i really do it sounds awesome, but the system would be abused by people giving their friends all the XP, giving the people that pissed them off no XP even if they did a good job, and so on and so forth.
I mean, Sony and Zipper have to have a plan that would make this thing work, they should know that they would hvae to make people listen to other people somehow.
Maybe we need an escapist team to get things looking good or something. Like playing online games together instead of like acting like a bunch ofass holes and doing whatever each person wants.
Jumplion: I like your idea PenTheif i really do it sounds awesome, but the system would be abused by people giving their friends all the XP, giving the people that pissed them off no XP even if they did a good job, and so on and so forth.
yes, my system would be horribly abused. i was just trying to demonstrate how social interactions can be manipulated by incentive based game design. the solution for something like MAG would have to be far more robust and thurough than my rough sketch of an idea.
but basing points on cooperative gameplay and not kills, would be a great start. i mean, in the military, you don't become a captain by killing 50 men.
A RTS game from a FPS perspective has been done before to an extent. In simpler circumstances, that's what C&C: Renegade was. It wasn't the greatest of single player experiences, but I've yet to see online modes in modern games that required tactics like that one.
Buildings that served a purpose, where losing it would cause a perk to be gone. Medics that could mine, bomb, and heal everything... including vehicles and buildings. Have that on a grand scale, with the potential to bring in reinforcements or raids that can easily sway the battle one way or the other, and I could dig that a lot. Only problem with C&C: Renegade is that once a side started to lose, you pretty much lost. If they brought tactics to the table without it turning the game cheap, I might just start liking multiplayer again.
Jumplion: I like your idea PenTheif i really do it sounds awesome, but the system would be abused by people giving their friends all the XP, giving the people that pissed them off no XP even if they did a good job, and so on and so forth.
yes, my system would be horribly abused. i was just trying to demonstrate how social interactions can be manipulated by incentive based game design. the solution for something like MAG would have to be far more robust and thurough than my rough sketch of an idea.
but basing points on cooperative gameplay and not kills, would be a great start. i mean, in the military, you don't become a captain by killing 50 men.
In Planetside this didn't occur either, but officers would accrue officer XP as well as player XP. When they have a sufficient officer level they would gain new abilities (air strikes, resources, whatever), plus the group generally followed the officer's orders to get to the killing/objective and get XP for that. Either way the grunts got benefits for following the officers' orders, even if it was indirect.
EDIT: After rereading, I didn't like the tone of what I posted. I agree with you that in game mechanics can fix social gaming problems, just citing out an existing mechanic that was more or less hands off to the issue.
TheKbob: If it was a PC title, I would be somewhat excited.
A home console 256 player online game? Sorry, no dice. Logistics nightmare, little voice chat, and NO ONE is going to listen... until the game gets down to about a few thousand hardcore, serious players... but then Sony will deem it a loss and shut off support, thus killing it.
Just call me Mr. Pessimism, but I prefer realistic in my viewpoints. The only reason I see Sony's PSN a better place to play is that the dumb people can't figure out how to connect a blutooth headset to the system, therefor I cannot hear them.
Its really not that hard to figure out how to use a wireless headset for the Ps3 (a lot of companies have already made headsets customised for the job) and yet we still never hear stupid screaming. Plus, theres also the fact that games on the Psn without a structured command system tend to evolve into tactics relatively quickly (MGO, Resistance and its Suicide Bomber Chimeras)
j-e-f-f-e-r-s: I dunno about this one. Squad combat is all well and good, but your average gamer isn't one for following order after order dished out by some higher-up. I've always thought multiplayer was more about improvisation- seeing an opportunity and exploiting it before you've even had a chance to think the consequences through properly. Listening to some higher-up bark orders at me sounds to much life real life in the army. I play games to be the hero, not the grunt.
And Indigo, you really should check out RvB. It's not just a fantastic machinima, it's a fantastic comedy full stop.
Your mistake is in thinking that the average Ps3 owner is the same as the average 360 owner. I'm not gonna say they're better, but on the 360, everyone says you here constant annoying vocals that add nothing, as well as clusterfucks. On the Psn, from what I've seen, tactical warfare is common in Team play. Speech is rare, only used when necesary, and players manages to lead by example.
j-e-f-f-e-r-s: I dunno about this one. Squad combat is all well and good, but your average gamer isn't one for following order after order dished out by some higher-up. I've always thought multiplayer was more about improvisation- seeing an opportunity and exploiting it before you've even had a chance to think the consequences through properly. Listening to some higher-up bark orders at me sounds to much life real life in the army. I play games to be the hero, not the grunt.
And Indigo, you really should check out RvB. It's not just a fantastic machinima, it's a fantastic comedy full stop.
Your mistake is in thinking that the average Ps3 owner is the same as the average 360 owner. I'm not gonna say they're better, but on the 360, everyone says you here constant annoying vocals that add nothing, as well as clusterfucks. On the Psn, from what I've seen, tactical warfare is common in Team play. Speech is rare, only used when necesary, and players manages to lead by example.
I should note that this kind of behaviour is ONLY on 1st party or exclusive games. On multiplatform games, you bet your sweet ass that there are going to be assholes on no matter what the game.
Though from what i've seen, PS3 owners don't have very good mics (including myself)
j-e-f-f-e-r-s: I dunno about this one. Squad combat is all well and good, but your average gamer isn't one for following order after order dished out by some higher-up. I've always thought multiplayer was more about improvisation- seeing an opportunity and exploiting it before you've even had a chance to think the consequences through properly. Listening to some higher-up bark orders at me sounds to much life real life in the army. I play games to be the hero, not the grunt.
And Indigo, you really should check out RvB. It's not just a fantastic machinima, it's a fantastic comedy full stop.
Your mistake is in thinking that the average Ps3 owner is the same as the average 360 owner. I'm not gonna say they're better, but on the 360, everyone says you here constant annoying vocals that add nothing, as well as clusterfucks. On the Psn, from what I've seen, tactical warfare is common in Team play. Speech is rare, only used when necesary, and players manages to lead by example.
I should note that this kind of behaviour is ONLY on 1st party or exclusive games. On multiplatform games, you bet your sweet ass that there are going to be assholes on no matter what the game.
Though from what i've seen, PS3 owners don't have very good mics (including myself)
I've seen one or two instances where Engineers will band together to make a Turret wall on Team Fortress 2. But I agree, they will be few and far between.
The only way it would work is if you didn't get points for kills, you only got them for working as a team to complete objectives. Personally, I don't see why people feel the need to play for points/to increase their rank, but that's the way it is.
I'm sorry Inners, but if you think PS3 owners are somehow more tactical than 360 owners, I fear you are sadly mistaken. Perhaps you've been fortunate in who you've played with and against, but the truth is that in the end both PS3 and 360 gamers are average shmucks like you and me. Some of them are college guys who like a round of multiplayer before they go out, some are kids who can't go 5 seconds without seeing an explosion... whatever platform, they are the same. Holding up PS3 gamers (especially 'exclusive' gamers, Jumplion) as a paragon of tactics and restraint over the general unwashed is just asking for trouble.
j-e-f-f-e-r-s: I'm sorry Inners, but if you think PS3 owners are somehow more tactical than 360 owners, I fear you are sadly mistaken. Perhaps you've been fortunate in who you've played with and against, but the truth is that in the end both PS3 and 360 gamers are average shmucks like you and me. Some of them are college guys who like a round of multiplayer before they go out, some are kids who can't go 5 seconds without seeing an explosion... whatever platform, they are the same. Holding up PS3 gamers (especially 'exclusive' gamers, Jumplion) as a paragon of tactics and restraint over the general unwashed is just asking for trouble.
And what experience of yours are you basing that on? I have actual consistent evidence, you have put forward nothing. The phenomena may be unexplained, but it still seems to be a consistent phenomena.
j-e-f-f-e-r-s: Holding up PS3 gamers (especially 'exclusive' gamers, Jumplion) as a paragon of tactics and restraint over the general unwashed is just asking for trouble.
Probably should have said "most of the time" instead of "ONLY" but "most of the time" on any multiplatform title i've played on (CoD4 mainly) I always encounter the voice changer idiot atleast once every couple dozen of rounds. They're not to frequent, but when they come OH BOY it's hell.
This is also true with 1st party titles, i'm assuming, but i have yet to actually meet someone on Warhawk or MGO that is truely annoying that isn't due to a bad headset.
Generally i've had good experiences with PSN, unlike with XBL whith my 5th time playing online in XBL when my friends and I were playing a small round of Halo 3 and a random kid said "you suck". We laughed so hard that time, but aside from that one small annoyance, i've had some other weird events on XBL.
j-e-f-f-e-r-s: I'm sorry Inners, but if you think PS3 owners are somehow more tactical than 360 owners, I fear you are sadly mistaken. Perhaps you've been fortunate in who you've played with and against, but the truth is that in the end both PS3 and 360 gamers are average shmucks like you and me. Some of them are college guys who like a round of multiplayer before they go out, some are kids who can't go 5 seconds without seeing an explosion... whatever platform, they are the same. Holding up PS3 gamers (especially 'exclusive' gamers, Jumplion) as a paragon of tactics and restraint over the general unwashed is just asking for trouble.
And what experience do you have with PS3 gamers? Most have a IQ high enough that'll you only need to lead by example. Seriously it happens A LOT on first party games and occasionally on third party but it still happens fairly often. Not like 360 where all I usually see is everybody for themselves.
j-e-f-f-e-r-s: I'm sorry Inners, but if you think PS3 owners are somehow more tactical than 360 owners, I fear you are sadly mistaken. Perhaps you've been fortunate in who you've played with and against, but the truth is that in the end both PS3 and 360 gamers are average shmucks like you and me. Some of them are college guys who like a round of multiplayer before they go out, some are kids who can't go 5 seconds without seeing an explosion... whatever platform, they are the same. Holding up PS3 gamers (especially 'exclusive' gamers, Jumplion) as a paragon of tactics and restraint over the general unwashed is just asking for trouble.
And what experience do you have with PS3 gamers? Most have a IQ high enough that'll you only need to lead by example. Seriously it happens A LOT on first party games and occasionally on third party but it still happens fairly often. Not like 360 where all I usually see is everybody for themselves.
As this is the internet, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but if you are, thats actually right. We (and by we I mean I) all realise that we'll never manage to win alone, and all just gravitate towards the person who seems to show the best mind for tactics.
j-e-f-f-e-r-s: I'm sorry Inners, but if you think PS3 owners are somehow more tactical than 360 owners, I fear you are sadly mistaken. Perhaps you've been fortunate in who you've played with and against, but the truth is that in the end both PS3 and 360 gamers are average shmucks like you and me. Some of them are college guys who like a round of multiplayer before they go out, some are kids who can't go 5 seconds without seeing an explosion... whatever platform, they are the same. Holding up PS3 gamers (especially 'exclusive' gamers, Jumplion) as a paragon of tactics and restraint over the general unwashed is just asking for trouble.
And what experience do you have with PS3 gamers? Most have a IQ high enough that'll you only need to lead by example. Seriously it happens A LOT on first party games and occasionally on third party but it still happens fairly often. Not like 360 where all I usually see is everybody for themselves.
As this is the internet, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but if you are, thats actually right. We (and by we I mean I) all realise that we'll never manage to win alone, and all just gravitate towards the person who seems to show the best mind for tactics.
Yeah its like a system. Everybody flocks to a leader that doesn't need to run his mouth to get people to do stuff. Read the art of war hell even that guy knows this.
j-e-f-f-e-r-s: I'm sorry Inners, but if you think PS3 owners are somehow more tactical than 360 owners, I fear you are sadly mistaken. Perhaps you've been fortunate in who you've played with and against, but the truth is that in the end both PS3 and 360 gamers are average shmucks like you and me. Some of them are college guys who like a round of multiplayer before they go out, some are kids who can't go 5 seconds without seeing an explosion... whatever platform, they are the same. Holding up PS3 gamers (especially 'exclusive' gamers, Jumplion) as a paragon of tactics and restraint over the general unwashed is just asking for trouble.
And what experience do you have with PS3 gamers? Most have a IQ high enough that'll you only need to lead by example. Seriously it happens A LOT on first party games and occasionally on third party but it still happens fairly often. Not like 360 where all I usually see is everybody for themselves.
Good to see generalisations are alive and well today.
I think you are tarring every 360 online game with the Halo 3 fanbase brush. After playing COD4 online I have found them to be totally different to the jerk-offs you get playing H3. It really depends on the game. Plus I think you'll find that the PS3 online userbase is smaller than the 360 online userbase (which is a piss in the bucket compared to the PC online userbase) so you are more than likely to find a higher percentage of "questionable people". Add to that the fact you have to sell your firstborn to afford a PS3 in the first place, less families are going to be able to justify buying one and therefore pick up a 360 to satiate their ADD plagued offspring, thereby increasing the amount of foul-mouthed, pre-pubescent malcontents online. However there are a lot who don't fall into that category. It would be like me saying "most PS3 owners I've come across are arrogant d1ckheads" because that's my "experience". In the larger contexts I would be proven to be wrong as I'm sure most PS3 owners don't fall into that category.
j-e-f-f-e-r-s: I'm sorry Inners, but if you think PS3 owners are somehow more tactical than 360 owners, I fear you are sadly mistaken. Perhaps you've been fortunate in who you've played with and against, but the truth is that in the end both PS3 and 360 gamers are average shmucks like you and me. Some of them are college guys who like a round of multiplayer before they go out, some are kids who can't go 5 seconds without seeing an explosion... whatever platform, they are the same. Holding up PS3 gamers (especially 'exclusive' gamers, Jumplion) as a paragon of tactics and restraint over the general unwashed is just asking for trouble.
And what experience do you have with PS3 gamers? Most have a IQ high enough that'll you only need to lead by example. Seriously it happens A LOT on first party games and occasionally on third party but it still happens fairly often. Not like 360 where all I usually see is everybody for themselves.
Good to see generalisations are alive and well today.
I think you are tarring every 360 online game with the Halo 3 fanbase brush. After playing COD4 online I have found them to be totally different to the jerk-offs you get playing H3. It really depends on the game. Plus I think you'll find that the PS3 online userbase is smaller than the 360 online userbase (which is a piss in the bucket compared to the PC online userbase) so you are more than likely to find a higher percentage of "questionable people". Add to that the fact you have to sell your firstborn to afford a PS3 in the first place, less families are going to be able to justify buying one and therefore pick up a 360 to satiate their ADD plagued offspring, thereby increasing the amount of foul-mouthed, pre-pubescent malcontents online.
You know it makes sense.
Lol a ps3 now only costs like 50-100$ more and..Drum roll please...YOU GET A FUCKING BLU-RAY DVD PLAYER SO QUIT BITCHING ABOUT THE PRICE.
j-e-f-f-e-r-s: I'm sorry Inners, but if you think PS3 owners are somehow more tactical than 360 owners, I fear you are sadly mistaken. Perhaps you've been fortunate in who you've played with and against, but the truth is that in the end both PS3 and 360 gamers are average shmucks like you and me. Some of them are college guys who like a round of multiplayer before they go out, some are kids who can't go 5 seconds without seeing an explosion... whatever platform, they are the same. Holding up PS3 gamers (especially 'exclusive' gamers, Jumplion) as a paragon of tactics and restraint over the general unwashed is just asking for trouble.
And what experience do you have with PS3 gamers? Most have a IQ high enough that'll you only need to lead by example. Seriously it happens A LOT on first party games and occasionally on third party but it still happens fairly often. Not like 360 where all I usually see is everybody for themselves.
Good to see generalisations are alive and well today.
I think you are tarring every 360 online game with the Halo 3 fanbase brush. After playing COD4 online I have found them to be totally different to the jerk-offs you get playing H3. It really depends on the game. Plus I think you'll find that the PS3 online userbase is smaller than the 360 online userbase (which is a piss in the bucket compared to the PC online userbase) so you are more than likely to find a higher percentage of "questionable people". Add to that the fact you have to sell your firstborn to afford a PS3 in the first place, less families are going to be able to justify buying one and therefore pick up a 360 to satiate their ADD plagued offspring, thereby increasing the amount of foul-mouthed, pre-pubescent malcontents online.
You know it makes sense.
Lol a ps3 now only costs like 50-100$ more and..Drum roll please...YOU GET A FUCKING BLU-RAY DVD PLAYER SO QUIT BITCHING ABOUT THE PRICE.
Dude. I don't think you're taking an entirely unbiased position here.
I like your idea PenTheif i really do it sounds awesome, but the system would be abused by people giving their friends all the XP, giving the people that pissed them off no XP even if they did a good job, and so on and so forth.
I mean, Sony and Zipper have to have a plan that would make this thing work, they should know that they would hvae to make people listen to other people somehow.