Cheeze_Pavilion:

Darth Mobius:
I remember once, there was this fat bitch in California that sued the DMV because her Randomly generated License Plate number was something like FAT3657. Naturally, she was a fat white woman. Is anyone else surprised? No? Me neither.

Wait, does this story end with her pulling up to the DMV and there's a bloody hook hanging from the handle of her car door?

I'd love to see the actual, factual citation of this. Wherever it was, it wasn't California - the California license plate doesn't use that format.

Cheeze_Pavilion:

eggdog14:

". . .since everyone knows that fat girls are unlovable human garbage at whom any sensible bloke would sooner hurl invective than cast a longing glance."

well. . . i mean. . . .

yeah.

I'd hit it.

With the fist of an angry god?

Cheeze_Pavilion:

PEWPEWGreenLaser:

Cheeze_Pavilion:

eggdog14:

". . .since everyone knows that fat girls are unlovable human garbage at whom any sensible bloke would sooner hurl invective than cast a longing glance."

well. . . i mean. . . .

yeah.

I'd hit it.

With the fist of an angry god?

What, a goddess can't do the same job as a god? You can keep your heteronormative misogyny, that's what I say.

I suppose they could, but it's usually the gods that do the smiting. :P

McEwan is committing a pretty classic issue-blogger mistake there: taking some random example of a widespread phenomenon and raging against it like it's something special and extreme.

The princess trope in general is definitely... problematic. It's led to a whole host of works where the main female presence is depersonalized. When the woman could be easily replaced with a pile of treasure or a docile farm animal, it's hard to argue that some "objectification" isn't happening.

While the "fattening up" mechanic is novel/kinky/creepy, Fat Princess is pretty much just another free-the-princess narrative, just like many Disney movies and Mario games.

That doesn't mean it should get a free pass on all counts. But it's stupid to hurl a mountain of insults its way like it's the worst game since Custer's Revenge. It's not. I think it's obvious -- hell, even self-evident that it's not.

You can see McEwan stretching really hard to make it out to be a truly heinous, out-there kind of thing. It rings hollow. Especially since her primary accusation -- that the game is trying to depict fat people as ugly and "human garbage" -- doesn't really stick all too well. It's just something she manufactured based on her assumption that the game must be outstandingly vile rather than a mostly-typical pop-culture depiction of princesses and the obese.

... Which isn't to say that mostly-typical pop-culture depictions of princess and the obese can't be problematic. Just that it's ridiculous to attack each one individually rather than (semi-calmly) looking at why all of them together are problematic when taken as a single, culture-defining whole.

-- Alex

PEWPEWGreenLaser:

Cheeze_Pavilion:

PEWPEWGreenLaser:

Cheeze_Pavilion:

eggdog14:

". . .since everyone knows that fat girls are unlovable human garbage at whom any sensible bloke would sooner hurl invective than cast a longing glance."

well. . . i mean. . . .

yeah.

I'd hit it.

With the fist of an angry god?

What, a goddess can't do the same job as a god? You can keep your heteronormative misogyny, that's what I say.

I suppose they could, but it's usually the gods that do the smiting. :P

I believe Athena was 1) A goddess of wisedom/common sense, and 2)A War Goddess.
Who smites better than a Deity with a portfolio dedicated to ass kicking?

Than why did Kratos kick her ass?

Eyclonus:

PEWPEWGreenLaser:

Cheeze_Pavilion:

PEWPEWGreenLaser:

Cheeze_Pavilion:

eggdog14:

". . .since everyone knows that fat girls are unlovable human garbage at whom any sensible bloke would sooner hurl invective than cast a longing glance."

well. . . i mean. . . .

yeah.

I'd hit it.

With the fist of an angry god?

What, a goddess can't do the same job as a god? You can keep your heteronormative misogyny, that's what I say.

I suppose they could, but it's usually the gods that do the smiting. :P

I believe Athena was 1) A goddess of wisedom/common sense, and 2)A War Goddess.
Who smites better than a Deity with a portfolio dedicated to ass kicking?

She also burst out of Zeus' god damn head after he ate her when she was just a baby. Bitch was hardcore.

Eyclonus:

PEWPEWGreenLaser:

Cheeze_Pavilion:

PEWPEWGreenLaser:

Cheeze_Pavilion:

eggdog14:

". . .since everyone knows that fat girls are unlovable human garbage at whom any sensible bloke would sooner hurl invective than cast a longing glance."

well. . . i mean. . . .

yeah.

I'd hit it.

With the fist of an angry god?

What, a goddess can't do the same job as a god? You can keep your heteronormative misogyny, that's what I say.

I suppose they could, but it's usually the gods that do the smiting. :P

I believe Athena was 1) A goddess of wisedom/common sense, and 2)A War Goddess.
Who smites better than a Deity with a portfolio dedicated to ass kicking?

A War Goddess. Meaning one of the many war deities! Where as MARS/ARIES is THE God of War (Until Kraytos comes along and goes all kung-fu on his ass...) Besides, everyone knows men are angrier and more likely to smite. :P

First of all if Kratos is so awesome, Why does he have to prove his worth every time the gods need someone "Reminded" about the way things are supposed to be?
And Aries was her retarded brother...
She was about strategic warfare and cunning tactics, He favours the classic barbarians R.R.P.B. Raid, Rape, Pillage and Burn.

Eyclonus:
She was about strategic warfare and cunning tactics, He favours the classic barbarians R.R.P.B. Raid, Rape, Pillage and Burn.

What better way to leave your mark and say "Don't screw with us!"?

Though in Roman mythology (Mars) he's actually portrayed as a smart man who is respected while the Greek mythology (Ares) is portrayed as a coward. So it depends on which culture you're referencing.

God i love greek mythology.

Eyclonus:
First of all if Kratos is so awesome, Why does he have to prove his worth every time the gods need someone "Reminded" about the way things are supposed to be?

Because the gods are pillocks.

So returning to point at hand, maybe the blogger should have a signed affadavit from Zeus that she has proven her worth as an obese, ignorant, pretentious hippotamus?

Eyclonus:
So returning to point at hand, maybe the blogger should have a signed affadavit from Zeus that she has proven her worth as an obese, ignorant, pretentious hippotamus?

Lets not forget the last time Zeus went gallivanting around as creature of the bovine persuasion...

Generally most of his gallivanting about as an animal lead to many cases of Greek boys and girls being exiled for zoophilia....

Eyclonus:
Generally most of his gallivanting about as an animal lead to many cases of Greek boys and girls being exiled for zoophilia....

Exile you say. Then maybe a visit from Zeus is in order... So long as he doesn't pull any of that creepy golden "rain" shit that he does from time to time...

I knew the instant I saw the headline, the person writing this is at least going to have reached 'Anti-revolving door' status and she didn't disappoint. Humourously enough, I didn't actually start laughing at the fact the Adorable Princess was fat untill she pointed it out and said it will inspire hate....it will now you've bitched about it!!!

Wow, why does she even care? If I were in her place I would think it beneath my notice, and not worthy of my time. I saw those "fat people are beautiful" comments. Well, guess what, I've had more than my share of twinkies and I sure as hell am not beautiful (or handsome, rather). And what's so great about diabetes? heart disease? high-blood pressure? Yeah, death by corpulence is sooo beautiful. GET HEALTHY PEOPLE!

And the feminists just need to get over themselves. No, women as a whole aren't better than men. No, men as a whole aren't better than women. There are some men and women who are better at things that are usually associated with the opposite gender. Big fucking whoop dee doo. Seriously, it's kind of carried over from racism. People aren't what their gender or race are. People are what they earn with the sweat of their brows. I choose Rapture. What about you?

Zeddicus Zhul Zorander:
Wow, why does she even care? If I were in her place I would think it beneath my notice, and not worthy of my time. I saw those "fat people are beautiful" comments. Well, guess what, I've had more than my share of twinkies and I sure as hell am not beautiful (or handsome, rather). And what's so great about diabetes? heart disease? high-blood pressure? Yeah, death by corpulence is sooo beautiful. GET HEALTHY PEOPLE!

And the feminists just need to get over themselves. No, women as a whole aren't better than men. No, men as a whole aren't better than women. There are some men and women who are better at things that are usually associated with the opposite gender. Big fucking whoop dee doo. Seriously, it's kind of carried over from racism. People aren't what their gender or race are. People are what they earn with the sweat of their brows. I choose Rapture. What about you?

If it comes down to a choice between gender equality and being murdered, eaten and possibly raped by genetic modification addicts in an underwater city/tomb then sorry but fuck women.

Decoy Doctorpus:
If it comes down to a choice between gender equality and being murdered, eaten and possibly raped by genetic modification addicts in an underwater city/tomb then sorry but fuck women.

Yeah...wait what? The whole destruction of Rapture was caused by the greed of Ryan and Fontaine afraid to say, and the hypocrisy of their ideologies, there is no way that Gender Equality would result in a civil war unless the Nazi Party is resurrected by Zombie Hitler in a scene similar to that of the beginning of Medieval 1.

Eyclonus:

PEWPEWGreenLaser:

I suppose they could, but it's usually the gods that do the smiting. :P

I believe Athena was 1) A goddess of wisedom/common sense, and 2)A War Goddess.
Who smites better than a Deity with a portfolio dedicated to ass kicking?

There was also Ariadne, Demeter, Artemis, Frija, Shiva, Devi, Durga, Nike, Morrigan, Dunad, Buddha, Eris, Erinyes. Hell hath no fury like a godess scorned.

And let's not forget Margaret Thatcher(Falklands), Condoleeza Rice(Gulf), Indra Nooyi(Pepsico), Cynthia Carrol(Environmental damage), Anne Maculahy(Xerox)

Um Katherine *COUGH*Zoophile*COUGH* the Great? Boudica?

Zeddicus Zhul Zorander:
Wow, why does she even care? If I were in her place I would think it beneath my notice, and not worthy of my time.

This meta-post can be thought of as a defense for that one. It directly speaks to why she thinks folks should address the small stuff.

And, for the most part, I agree. There's trash (racist, sexist, &c. works and ideas) everywhere and we should call it like we see it.

In this particular case, though, I don't see it the way she sees it at all. I see a cute-kinky-creepy game that combines princesses with obesity in the same way that, oh, I dunno, Disney's Fantasia does. And the tropes are definitely screwed-up but... "human garbage"? Where is that coming from?

-- Alex

Alex_P:
This meta-post can be thought of as a defense for that one. It directly speaks to why she thinks folks should address the small stuff.

Whilst I do agree with feminists that there is still a lot of sex-based bias, I disagree with her view that it isn't going too far. To demonstrate my point, as recently as last week I saw on another forum that feminist's are pushing to change 'History' to 'Herstory' because History is apparently a sexist stab...ridiculous, no? I know that's just one example but if need be I can find many more, such as the argument that we shouldn't always assume, say, a video game player is a he, which is also ridiculous because most video game players 9 times out of 10 ARE male, and while that one is slightly more plausible, it's stupid to say it's a direct attack. It's foolish and arrogant to say males are not biased bigots because we are, that's our nature lol. But conversely, the feminist movement in itself is becoming incredibly sexist, not to mention outright ludicrous and filled with hypocrisy, it won't be long before the feminist movement is as credible as the Political Correctness machine

Oh, and has anyone else noticed how feminists tend to be masculine? If they're so caught up in how great women are, shouldn't they be, oh I don't know, FEMININE?!?

Zeddicus Zhul Zorander:
Well, guess what, I've had more than my share of twinkies and I sure as hell am not beautiful (or handsome, rather). And what's so great about diabetes? heart disease? high-blood pressure? Yeah, death by corpulence is sooo beautiful. GET HEALTHY PEOPLE!

I'm creeped out by any movement to treat obesity as a value-neutral thing ("fat acceptance"). Doing away with all normative ideas about health can't be good for society.

That said, it's not unreasonable to say that fat people do, in fact, suffer from discrimination and emotional abuse. It'd be nice to diminish that hate just a bit without actually, like, pretending obesity is a fine and healthy life choice.

I think America's fucked-up body-image culture contributes to its problem with obesity. Setting up a standard that most people can't meaningfully achieve (and one that's often downright unhealthy, too) kinda does encourage them not to even try, doesn't it?
 

If this wasn't modern America, you could say Fat Princess is hitting a certain kind of class trope: the morbidly obese rich parasite exploiting the laboring class. We're so used to seeing the obese everywhere and people of almost every social stratum being able to get their fill of cheap, lardy food that we don't really associate the two any more.

Hell, isn't it weird that in modern America (and the "West" in general, perhaps), obesity is associated with poverty? We've reached such excess that being able to resist it (usually by canceling it out with other forms of excess -- personal trainers and fancy diets and plastic surgery) is a sign of wealth.

-- Alex

Well the discussion here (http://www.feministgamers.com/?p=466) on the same topic is a little more coherent.
Their main complaint seems to be the objectification issue, brought up as the point of if you replace the princess with a treasure chest to stuff items in it changes the game not at all. I can even agree with the argument.

The issues that people in the thread at least seem to be brining up against feminism are the same that are leveled against any group. The loudest people of the group come across as the speakers for the group even though they are to use a technical term 'nuttier then squirrel excrement'

Zeddicus Zhul Zorander:
Oh, and has anyone else noticed how feminists tend to be masculine? If they're so caught up in how great women are, shouldn't they be, oh I don't know, FEMININE?!?

And once more, every point we gain against the feminists is shot down by our own side.

Well my stance on the issue is resolved. I asked my chubby, feminist girlfriend what she thought of the game concept and her response was...

"That is WEIRD! And oddly perverted..."

She wasn't remotely offended, just creeped out at the Japanese.

Back in the day (like WAAAYY back, i'm talkin' 1700 yo!) only the rich could afford to be fat and the poor had to eat what they could.

Now it's exactly the opposite and only the rich can afford to be skinny.

It's amazing how history can change in a matter or decades.

Though i think that if they change the princess into a farm animal (like a cow or something) the Fem Gamers would still be pissed because "OH, so now females are a bunch of fat COWS!?!?!? YOU BITCHES! MAKE IT A TREASURE CHEST!" but if they do that then "OH, so now women are mere objects of gold to be obtained? YOU BITCHES1! MAKE IT SOMETHING ELSE THAT WON'T BE ANTI-FEMINIST!!"

But the irony is still there, the person who came up and drew the art style with characters and stuff IS a woman.

It's a Catch-22 really.

Torment40:
Whilst I do agree with feminists that there is still a lot of sex-based bias, I disagree with her view that it isn't going too far. To demonstrate my point, as recently as last week I saw on another forum that feminist's are pushing to change 'History' to 'Herstory' because History is apparently a sexist stab...ridiculous, no? I know that's just one example but if need be I can find many more, such as the argument that we shouldn't always assume, say, a video game player is a he, which is also ridiculous because most video game players 9 times out of 10 ARE male, and while that one is slightly more plausible, it's stupid to say it's a direct attack. It's foolish and arrogant to say males are not biased bigots because we are, that's our nature lol. But conversely, the feminist movement in itself is becoming incredibly sexist, not to mention outright ludicrous and filled with hypocrisy, it won't be long before the feminist movement is as credible as the Political Correctness machine

But feminism isn't one unified movement. Anyone who wants to be a "feminist" can just say so and, poof, they will be thought of as a "feminist" -- especially on the Internet. That's why you get utterly sexist bullshit from self-described "feminists" sometimes.

Another problem is that many modern feminist thinkers speak in the ovewrought language of philosophy and critical theory, rendering their thoughts confusing to anyone who hasn't been taught how to slog through this arcane stuff at a university.

Mostly, though, it's simply that people insist on taking any random statement a feminist makes and ascribing it to feminists. This is stupid.

Also: "political correctness machine"? Give me a break! There is no machine. Political correctness is a bugbear dreamed up by American conservatives. They were so successful that it's taken on a life of its own and now everyone bows to it. That's how you get crap like "freedom fries" and endless bitching about the New Yorker's satirical Obama cover -- there's no real source to pin it on, we're just all perpetuating the phenomenon because we assume that someone, somewhere is actually enforcing it. (That's how most of society operates, anyway. Panopticon and all that.)

-- Alex

PedroSteckecilo:
She wasn't remotely offended, just creeped out at the Japanese.

What's weird is that this game is from a studio in Seattle.

-- Alex

Jumplion:
But the irony is still there, the person who came up and drew the art style with characters and stuff IS a woman.

It's a Catch-22 really.

Umm, how?

The idea that all of society -- men and women together -- are indoctrinated to perpetuate negative, sexist social norms is kind of a staple of feminist theory.

-- Alex

Alex_P:

Jumplion:
But the irony is still there, the person who came up and drew the art style with characters and stuff IS a woman.

It's a Catch-22 really.

Umm, how?

The idea that all of society -- men and women together -- are indoctrinated to perpetuate negative, sexist social norms is kind of a staple of feminist.

-- A