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Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2082 Joined: 12 May 2008     | |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 79 Joined: 17 Aug 2008    | There's one thing that people don't mention: not all pirates are destroying the industry(granted, most of them are). I'll admit it, I pirate a few games. The majority being classics that you can't buy anymore. Some have been new releases to see if they are any good and some have been to check if I could run them(decent system with integrated graphics card makes for unreliable system requirements). I downloaded the PSP God of War when it came out because I didn't think it would translate to a handheld. About an hour later I knew that the developers needed my money to continue their excellent work. Sure, blanket generalizations catch all the badies, but it catches us goodies as well. Oh god, now I'm paranoid. Huh? What was that? Who are you!? Let go of my compu.... |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 360 Joined: 4 May 2008    | I'll admit, I have downloaded three games in my time. But now, those games happilr reside on my shelf. I don't condone piracy, but I wanted to find out if they were worthy of purchase. If they hadn't been, I would have just deleted the games. I think what this says is that many game companys would do better to give you a better demo of the game, so you know well and truelly what you're getting. |
Red Guard  Posts: 1754 Joined: 16 Dec 2007    | I've said this audio software before; there should be a library system for games. A place you can borrow, but not keep software for learning and enjoyment. Libraries have been around for ever and it's not like books have suffered because of it. Of course, the success of such a program is in the details. Something I am not willing to figure out on my coffee break. |
King of the Yetis  Posts: 1878 Joined: 15 Jul 2008  |
Actually it's already done. It's what made p2p programs such as Kazzaa unusuable. I think a better answer to piracy would be a drastic market shift. The current system simply doesn't work but instead of trying to change their product and their marketing companies are instead trying to fight a losing battle of wits against nearly half the fucking world. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 215 Joined: 7 Jun 2008 | I like threads like this because of all the unsubstantiated claims everyone makes. I'll probably make a few myself. Something about piracy brings out the worst in people. Especially Battlefrank's "Pirates are the majority." Let's see some data. Because if that were true, then, according to the NPD Group (as reported here: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/85835-NPD-Finds-174-Million-U-S-Gamers ) in the US alone there would have to be 87 million pirates, to get over 50% (definition of majority). And while that number would certainly support his hypothesis that it would "fuck our economy" to prosecute every pirate (assuming each suit was successful, otherwise, it could be a financial boon with such widespread spending, especially when we get into counter-suits) I doubt nearly 1 out of every 3 americans pirates their games. Anyway, there's only one way to kill piracy: Ban All Computers. Everything else can be worked around. We could try, like Iran and China, to place a country wide filter on our internet, but proxies are already helping people in those countries skirt censorship. The only sure fire way to prevent thievery is to give them nothing to steal. After all computers are banned, then it'll just be good old fashioned bootlegging. Now, who's volunteering to give up their computer? Anyone? That's what I thought. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2501 Joined: 3 Mar 2008    |
You can't. This is the Age of the Internet. My opinion is that most pirates occur in places like Australia, and over here, games are 2-3 times more expensive (conversion included) than in America. My opinion is, if you make game buying in Australia more fair and reasonable, then piracy will drop dramatically. That's my idea... for Australia. My idea is, if you want someone to buy your product, make it reasonably priced. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 4 Joined: 22 Aug 2008 | I just want to know why are people so against "piracy"? Why does it bother you so much that someone in some unknown country or in your own country that you will probably never meat is downloading a game for free? Is it beacause it upsets your moral values or beacause you feel stupid for buyng a game that someone else gets for free? Why does it matter so much that other people "illegaly download" things as long as you buy them yourself? Why is everyone picking up the sword of justice and fighting the crusade against piracy like it's the plague of humanity? As long as in some places of the world a game will cost 20% of the monthly wage of a person piarcy will exist. I don't think that EA or you who is against "piracy" will starve beacause Johnny X-ville in northern Uganda who can't get a part time job for 7$/hour is "downloading from the internet" At this time P2P torrent downloadig is the snake who goes through all the loopholes( did i spell that right?) of the law and like it or not it is as legal as it gets because it bypases all the laws against piracy. And that is the reality that everybody evoids. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 152 Joined: 20 Feb 2008 | I am against video game piracy to a point. I understand pirating the old games that are no longer in circulation and some jerk on E-Bay is trying to get rich off of it. If you can't buy it then you aren't hurting the devs. It is when a new game is up on a torrent site the day of or before it hits store shelves that I have issues with. Again if you are downloading it and treating it as a demo (play a level or 2 see if you like it before droppin 60 bucks) then more power to you. Pirating and playing the entire game because you are too cheap or can't afford it is just plain wrong. The big reason is because games are a one shot deal vs music or movies. A band can make tons of cash from concerts and T-shirts ect. ect. And movies get thier chance at the theatre before going to dvd then to TV. Devs don't have these kinds of opportunities to recoup thier losses. They put out their game usually along with games from other companies and fight it out on the store shelves. If they lose this fight and ppl are stealing the game to boot then they lose funding to make thier next game. And who knows the game that they can no longer afford to make could be the greatest game ever. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1323 Joined: 11 Jun 2008    | If anything piracy is important just for the fact that it instigates a continual dialogue over the growing power of Copyright Laws and their relevance to us and our rights of ownership. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 98 Joined: 25 Jul 2008 | $80 for a new game seems to be a reaction to piracy the same way a government increases taxes during a recession or a British Bank manager recommending a shop owner increase the price of goods when it is falling behind on mortgage payments. All three scenarios come from an authority realising that they are not earning enough money so they think that if they increase the unit cost they will bring more money in. This is a fundamental economic mistake and cost trillions worldwide as increasing the cost reduces turnover so you earn less taxes/turnover and are forced to push the prices higher. I mean think about it, Crysis sold (legitimately) 1.5 million copies, with the unit cost being virtually zero and depending on wholesale-to-retail prices they had a turnover of $90-120 million (USD) which easily covers development cost and capital for the next project. But it is also an interesting fact that for every game bought about 20 were illegally downloaded. Maybe not quite that high a ratio but IF this is true then following Crytec's logic they should have earned (gets calculator) 2.5 billion dollars ($2,520,000,000, muh-ha-HA!!) if DL's were converted directly to sales. That is a ludicrous amount of money, not even the biggest selling movies with worldwide ticket and DVD sales earn that much and I think price is the issue. There is no way that if file sharing was completely stopped then Crytec could have made that much money. The reason the other 20 games are downloaded is because they aren't willing to pay $80 for it, hell most of their market don't have $80 at any one time. But if they had sold their game for a low price like $40-$30 then they may in fact have earned more. This may have to be combined with some pro-active effort to reduce file sharing such as online registration but people will not bitch about these issues if they have to pay less. If you have 20 times as many people interested than are buying then if you half the sale price then you will quadruple the sales (double your income) or even more. Plenty of carrot and a bit of stick; not 'less carrot more stick'. Games Developers need to stop worrying about the fish (sale) that got away, continuing the metaphor, current legal action is like dynamite fishing to get your bait back. BTW I don't DL games in the UK due to OUR FASCIST GOVERNMENT and how PC game are remarkably cheap (incidentally in the equivalent $40 range). |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1323 Joined: 11 Jun 2008 | @Treblaine good point and one that isn't made often enough. it is very similar to how the record industry seems to think that they are out billions and billions of dollars of fake money that nobody ever had. |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 599 Joined: 11 Jul 2008 | Two points. Another vote for Steam here, and another vote for them getting more and more older games on there. Honestly, if you're in ownership of the rights to older classics like Fallout or Baldur's Gate, don't claw back tiny bits of cash putting them on the budget shelves for $10, get em on Steam for $10 instead. Gamers will surely appreciate older games that have been fixed for vista, with no need for cd-keys and disc swapping. I mean, Steam sells some games for $3.99, where am I going to get stuff for £2 in a UK store, unless I want 4 copies of FIFA 05 for the ps2, heh. (honestly both my local Game and Gamestation have racks of these, they should just offer em free with any purchase, they're not worth the space,financially.) There was a VERY good article in 'Total PC Gaming' Magazine in the UK, and while it's not going to work on pirates who steal everything, it may be a good thing for the industry as a whole. (note I've probably added bits of my own in here too) What he suggested was: Say you spend $50 a month on games, put that away each month, and get to a torrent site! and grab all you can, try things you wouldn't normally have a go at, try RPGs, sports games, puzzle games, FPSs, everything. Then, after 3 months or so, go get that money, and buy the games that were GOOD. Spend all of that money on the games that deserved your cash. Hell, if you're stuck, and you only found one good game, buy 5 copies of it. Then delete everything else, don't keep backups, you didnt pay, so they're gone. If you don't want to delete it, go buy it. This way, the industry gets your money, you stop buying crappy games, you also maybe discover games you may not have tried, everyone is a winner, except the ones making crappy games for $60 a pop. (sorry, I tend to flit between $ and £, trying to be easier on the US people and failing :D) Of course as I say, this isn't for the pirates, its for the people who actually buy games. Of course, you'll be illegally downloading, and you'll be a pirate, but morally you'd be in the right. I was impressed to see a large article looking at piracy in this light in a major magazine to be honest. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 98 Joined: 7 Apr 2008 | I have a very mixed view on this topic, as i find piracy inherantly wrong, however its a fact that people cant afford everything they want, sometimes its purely impatience. im looking forward to spore and i will go out and buy it the days its out, but if a copy of it appears on the torrent sites in the morning i will be downloading it 1st. |
Infamous Scribbler Posts: 599 Joined: 11 Jul 2008 | Also with Crysis, there was so much hype about needing some kind of FBI supercomputer to run it, that I imagine most people didn't want to risk buying it, finding it wouldn't run, then not being able to return it. This does only apply to Crysis and a few others, but even if there was 60 million torrented copies of that game, it doesnt mean they lost 60,000,000x$60. It means people don't want to pay for something in the vain hope it may work, and there's still, I believe, I fairly small proportion of people gaming on the PC who can run that suitably. To back up my wild allegations, look at World of Warcraft, short of needing 1gb of ram to run well, (tho its vaguely possible on 256mb), its pretty easy going on the needed system specs and is very scalable. If they released a graphics patch that increased minimum specs from what they are to Crysis recommended, they'd go from 10 million players to under a million overnight. ( or, there'd be a shedload of WOW addicts stealing to get a PC good enough.) Also look at the success of the casual games market, Bejeweled, Geometry Wars etc, both on PC and Xbox Live Arcade ( I don't know enough about the PS network to comment). Sure they're getting pirated, at least on PC, I've heard of tales of 10 copies to one sold, but they're doing em cheaply and they're selling, and you're drawing in the 'silver surfer' market, the older gamers who don't KNOW about piracy, and have the disposable to throw $20 at a new copy of Zuma, Bookworm, etc. |
Paperboy Posts: 30 Joined: 16 Jun 2008 |
When I make that claim, I mean media in general. I've checked the stats, and I can safely say that if it isn't half, it's a quarter of the population. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 53 Joined: 7 Feb 2008 |
If I knew where the thieves were at, and MY stuff was in their houses, then you can bet your arse I would rob them back! Back on topic, this wouldn't work, because people would just go to another among thousands and thousands of torrent sites, like wilsonscrazybed also pointed out. |
Infamous Scribbler Posts: 599 Joined: 11 Jul 2008 | I think the point is, if the companies can delay a pirated release by even a day or two, or make it take a few minutes more to find a good version to download, they're gonna see an upturn in sales. No they're never going to stop it, but they're going out of their way to slow it down at least, what with so many sales happening in the first few days with big releases. I still think copy protection, when it starts invading your system and taking over parts irrelevant to your game, is wrong tho. CD-keys etc, fine, tho annoying. One time online authentication, fine, so long as it's a game you'd need the internet for. Games which are solo player should either not demand net links, or have a LARGE warning on the front of box saying , WARNING: Requires internet access for account validation, or something similar. I certainly didn't notice the orange box needed it, until I'd already got it home, and of course you can't return games now. Of course, everything about the orange box is great and worth double the asking price anyways, so I'm fine with that. |
Muckraker  Posts: 268 Joined: 25 Mar 2008 | You want to stop pirates? I solute them. Saving the environment one file at a time.
I only download games which aren't produced anymore. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 175 Joined: 5 Aug 2008 | The underlying problem with piracy is that it really cant be stopped. Any security put in place by a human can be avoided by a human, its as simple as that. I myself am a pirate and while I do know that it is wrong, I'm not taking away any money from the developers because I only pirate games that I wouldn't have bought anyways. If a game interests me I buy it, if I'm not too sure I pirate it. From there if I do like the game then I will most likely buy it afterwards in order to use multiplayer. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 96 Joined: 5 Dec 2007 | I think a presumption being made willy-nilly in this thread needs addressed, and that's the illusion of 'pirates' as a noun. What makes a pirate? Are you imagining some slavering fat man in front of his computer in his parents' basement, downloading copies of copyrighted software simply to have it as he stuffs his face with Doritos? The fact of the matter is that most people who commit software piracy are regular joes, normal folks, and frequently aren't even all that prolific in their unlicensed software reproductions. These are your neighbors' kids, your uncles, your co-workers, your family and friends. We all need to stop talking about piracy from some pedestal or podium, speaking like pirates are 'them' and completely separate from 'us.' These are people we know, who do things that are illegal but almost nobody gets caught doing and 'everybody does it anyway.' In this way, it's a sort of variant on traffic regulations (when's the last time you saw somebody obey posted speed limits and make full stops at all stop signs?)--we don't see anybody getting hurt by our actions, so we say, hey, no harm, no foul, and no foul, no real crime. Right? A great many people who commit piracy do so because of a deficit in the existing mercantile structure's ability to meet their demands as a consumer. I want to watch, say, Showtime's "The L Word" show. But I don't have Showtime, and really, don't otherwise watch TV. Why should I have to pay for cable, and premium cable at that, just to watch one show once a week for twenty-six weeks a year (at most)? So I skip the middleman and get on IRC and find someone who has the video files that I can acquire, because like hell I'm paying so much for so little. A similar situation that's more applicable to software piracy specifically has been mentioned in this thread: acquiring dated games can be an arduous process without recourse to illegal means. What's the solution? Gametap. Virtual Console. Steam. Live Arcade. And so on, and so on. If you want people to pay for things, you have to be willing--and, more importantly, able--to sell it to them. As preventative measures, too, we should radically alter children's entertainment. "Sharing" is a great lesson (and mantra) until you start to realize what adulthood and responsibility mean. By encouraging our children to learn to share, we are building a cognitive infrastructure that supports (or at least tolerates) piracy. If we do not change the message, as has been the case, then we as a society are saying that we don't think piracy is a problem. Which is fine, really. Really! But if we decide that software piracy is okay, then we need to stop saying it's a crime. And if it's a crime, we need to stop saying that sharing is unilaterally good. Which is it? That is really what this is about. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 88 Joined: 5 Jun 2007 | Charge everyone in the USofA, $60 a year (add it to the taxes)....all copyrights are nullified if released after that tax has been put into place. Companies, individuals, or small groups get funding from this copyright pool, they get their money, guaranteed - which would encourage people to experiment around - people can do what they've been doing but are no longer criminals. 18 billion+ a year should cover this, no problem. It's not like it's a war...yet. Lawsuits stop, criminalizing children stops, single mothers getting sued for $200,000, outrageous prices on electrons stored in spiffy patterns stops, fees on hardware are removed - you pay a little fee for each device that plays DVD's to cover 'piracy', VCR's, tape-decks, etc. The cost of those goes down a tad too. It's the library system (sort of), but nationwide. It's a system that can be designed that releases products 'into the wild' for everyone to enjoy and do what they want with... Ah, crap - I'm a socialist...I did not know that about myself. You don't pay an architect every time you walk into a building they designed, why do game studios, musicians and artists keep getting money years after the creation has been more than paid for? Oh, yes, because somehow, people were able to take ownership of logic, words, and frequency patterns. I'm semi-serious and the plan above was originally brought up by a group of musicians in Canada. Also, at a certain point, these things become part of the culture, and even helped define the current culture (it's undeniable that Mario is part of everyone's culture here - although, I'm sure some will find a way for denial) - shouldn't the products of this culture (us) be going out of its way to protect what made it? It's an old and archaic system, copyright protection. It has to change, otherwise people will steal these companies to death, and the population can't be blamed at a certain point. It'll only get worse, because entire generations are growing up thinking it's okay...and when everyone in a country thinks the same thing, that's the way it is. |
Paperboy Posts: 30 Joined: 16 Jun 2008 |
I feel like I remember you from somewhere. I will spend your probation time figuring it out.
Interesting. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1127 Joined: 22 Jun 2008   | Piracy won't stop as long as teh intrawebs is running. Theres always a way to get around anything if you know what you are doing. .......I knows a guy who knows a guy XD |
Copy Clerk Posts: 88 Joined: 5 Jun 2007 |
=D! I much prefer Weird Al's take on the whole situation... |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 583 Joined: 9 Feb 2008 | I'm starting to notice that being an advocate of piracy will get you a ban or probation here :( |
Anonymous Source Posts: 7 Joined: 7 Aug 2008 | I think you'll find that most video game pirates do buy games as well, simply when the money runs out they pirate what they can't afford. As it stands video games are far too expensive, $110 for a single game? It's crazy. The thing is, it's much easier to sell 3 games for $50 than it is to sell one for $100. |
Muckraker  Posts: 267 Joined: 17 Jul 2008 | First to get it out to open, I am a member of the Finnish Piraattipuolue (pirate party), a political party driving for personal rights and personal freedoms. And to clear it, we are driving to legalize casual copying (no profit for anyone kind) but not the copied games sold on eBay kind of piracy. There are options for developers to make their products available without the need for people to pirate their products. Here are couple of ideas, mainly directed to music industry, but adaptable to games. Ransom model: The product is relased free to public when certain amount of money has been donated. The normal product can be sold separately for those who want to pay a little extra for cases, covers or such extra materials. In music, you might do it by first releasing 64kbit version for free, then 128kbit when sum of X is collected, 160kbit version when 2X is collected, and flac version when 3x is summe |
lolwut?