Yes, yes it would be, however it would be the sort of moral choice that is really lacking from games that promise moral choice. I'm not saying I want games with rape, I want games with the option of choice to do evil things.
It wont happen in a long time, however eventually games will mature enough to be able to include content like rape without using it as gameplay for strange Japanese people.
Heh. What with all the special interest groups in america (let's face it, it's mostly american housewives that make a fuss), something even alluding to rape will be far off.
Also, I am quite sure the tentacle thing was before earlier. I would show you a picture, but I am not certain whether I can show that here, so I will refer to you to this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hentai so you can look at the picture in the top right.
Lord Krunk: Problem is, it's horribly, horribly true.
Unrealistic body types and Japanese tentacle rape have been around since...ever.
It's just something I suppose we'll have to accept.
The Japanese tentacle rape thing has only been around since the 70's or 80's. It came about because you weren't allowed to show penis' in Japan or something along those lines. Eventually they overturned the law, allowing penis' to be shown again. Guess they decided it was popular enough to stay after that.
You haven't seen that ancient woodblock print - "Dream of a Fisherman's Wife" or something - where there's a woman getting fondled by a couple of squid? Tentacle rape has been around for quite some time. The penis censoring only made it mainstream. Well, as mainstream as an obscure and freaky fetish can be.
The essay in the OP was already posted a while back. I can only assume that it was under a different title or you used the wrong search function.
zonking great: You are not funny. Rape is not funny. Despite what Japanese people think.
I agree, rape is a horrible thing to have as a main concept for a game let alone the actual gametype.
However, rape, can (and will) be used in games to show the morality of the character, and might be used as a good/evil choice.
What the hell? Thats worse than Bioshocks.
Yes, yes it would be, however it would be the sort of moral choice that is really lacking from games that promise moral choice. I'm not saying I want games with rape, I want games with the option of choice to do evil things.
It wont happen in a long time, however eventually games will mature enough to be able to include content like rape without using it as gameplay for strange Japanese people.
How is that a decent moral choice? There is no conceivable justification behind the act in any form, so unless it is being marketed towards the mentally disabled and psychotics, thats not a choice that would ever actually be justified.
The feminine j-rpg hero bashing is starting to get extremely old.
EDIT: Also the reason for no one caring because the extremely machoistic man in gaming is because man know it's just fiction as opposed to the opposite sex.
I have seen that print, but I was only reminded of it when zonking great posted the link to wikipedia, so you must be right in saying that the censorship made it mainstreamish. I wonder how far back it dates?
zonking great: You are not funny. Rape is not funny. Despite what Japanese people think.
I agree, rape is a horrible thing to have as a main concept for a game let alone the actual gametype.
However, rape, can (and will) be used in games to show the morality of the character, and might be used as a good/evil choice.
What the hell? Thats worse than Bioshocks.
Yes, yes it would be, however it would be the sort of moral choice that is really lacking from games that promise moral choice. I'm not saying I want games with rape, I want games with the option of choice to do evil things.
It wont happen in a long time, however eventually games will mature enough to be able to include content like rape without using it as gameplay for strange Japanese people.
How is that a decent moral choice? There is no conceivable justification behind the act in any form, so unless it is being marketed towards the mentally disabled and psychotics, thats not a choice that would ever actually be justified.
The choice may not be in whether or not you as a protagonist engage in rape, but perhaps if you're presented with the choice of saving someone from rape, or something involved with a rapist. The choice doesn't have to be directly related to the main character, and any game that did include rape as an option for the player wouldn't hit the shelves, it would be banned as soon as the idea was announced.
zonking great: You are not funny. Rape is not funny. Despite what Japanese people think.
I agree, rape is a horrible thing to have as a main concept for a game let alone the actual gametype.
However, rape, can (and will) be used in games to show the morality of the character, and might be used as a good/evil choice.
What the hell? Thats worse than Bioshocks.
Yes, yes it would be, however it would be the sort of moral choice that is really lacking from games that promise moral choice. I'm not saying I want games with rape, I want games with the option of choice to do evil things.
It wont happen in a long time, however eventually games will mature enough to be able to include content like rape without using it as gameplay for strange Japanese people.
How is that a decent moral choice? There is no conceivable justification behind the act in any form, so unless it is being marketed towards the mentally disabled and psychotics, thats not a choice that would ever actually be justified.
Don't be simple, there are scenarios that one may create to justify absolutely anything. Say a creature exists that uses the females of other species to propogate itself, a type of self aware parasite if you will. From that creature's point of view it is doing what is necessary to survive, on what moral basis do you get to tell said creature that it's actions are wrong when not raping would mean that it never reproduces?
To turn your own statement back on you it is only the simple minded that confuse their own moral compass with logic, and forget that the other party has it's own view point.
inu-kun: EDIT: Also the reason for no one caring because the extremely machoistic man in gaming is because man know it's just fiction as opposed to the opposite sex.
I kind of want to expound upon this statement. I honestly think the reason no one makes a point to mention the unrealistic male types in games is because these games are played predominantly by men. Men also don't have the issue of body image being constantly shoved down their throats day after day like women get (as was pointed out in the OP). So the issue is pretty moot in comparison to that of female images. There's also the fact that women normally tend not to care. So long as you're clean and nicely kept, looking like a shit-brick house isn't necessary. However, I'm clean and nicely kept but because I'm overweight and don't spend $100s a month on beauty supplies, I'm considered less than human by today's standards. (That's an exaggeration, I don't actually feel that way about myself, it's simply observation on how the media treat women like me).
You guys have it lucky. Yes, there ARE some social reactions to how men should be, but no where near the extent for the opposite sex. Women play these video games and don't give what the men look like a second thought. Why? Because it's not important to us. Kudos to every guy who is tired of seeing the insanely large breasted, scantily clad heroine, by the way. And I don't try to make light the concern that some have about male imagery, I sympathize and even agree. Just making the point that, for the most part, it's never really thought about. I'm all for more realistic men in games to counterbalance the testosterone pumped muscle men, but I just don't see it as ever being as much an issue as the female imagery.
On a side note, this shouldn't annoy me half as much as it does, but I can't help it. *rubs temples*
zonking great: You are not funny. Rape is not funny. Despite what Japanese people think.
I agree, rape is a horrible thing to have as a main concept for a game let alone the actual gametype.
However, rape, can (and will) be used in games to show the morality of the character, and might be used as a good/evil choice.
What the hell? Thats worse than Bioshocks.
Yes, yes it would be, however it would be the sort of moral choice that is really lacking from games that promise moral choice. I'm not saying I want games with rape, I want games with the option of choice to do evil things.
It wont happen in a long time, however eventually games will mature enough to be able to include content like rape without using it as gameplay for strange Japanese people.
How is that a decent moral choice? There is no conceivable justification behind the act in any form, so unless it is being marketed towards the mentally disabled and psychotics, thats not a choice that would ever actually be justified.
Don't be simple, there are scenarios that one may create to justify absolutely anything. Say a creature exists that uses the females of other species to propogate itself, a type of self aware parasite if you will. From that creature's point of view it is doing what is necessary to survive, on what moral basis do you get to tell said creature that it's actions are wrong when not raping would mean that it never reproduces?
To turn your own statement back on you it is only the simple minded that confuse their own moral compass with logic, and forget that the other party has it's own view point.
I meant among humans it is an unjustifiable act. I was not going to go into theorietical creatures that I'm sure you see and dream about quite often.
I think the problem is that people overreact and jump to the worst issues. Admittedly, the Japanese games are really fucked up, it only affects people who are too stupid or hopeless to tell what is real and what is sweet, harmless and occasionally disturbing fantasy.
The bigger question, I think, is whether or not being able to act out fantasies of rape in a fictional environment is morally correct. Japan has one of the lowest numbers of sexual assault in the world yet it has the most violent pornography. The same goes for subjects such as guro and lolikon, both are inherently disgusting and misogynist in my opinion, but if they lower the number of actual sexual assaults should they be banned?
For the guy who said it's already been posted: I searched for about 20 minutes, tried every word in the title and then random excerpts from the piece, nothing came up. It did go up on my blog though, perhaps you read it there?
Kungfumaster: God no. You're dead in the first 20 seconds. You look like the guy who'll say something like "I like a woman with spirit" right before the game's love interest sets you on fire with a spell.
Everyone else: It's not just a western thing.
As for rape in video games. I remember this issue coming up when a WOW player posted erotic fanfiction about raping and killing another character and got banned for it. The point came up that playing a completely evil character isn't really possible in current games because of the concepts of decency the developers hold you to. I'm not exactly clamoring for World of Warcraft: Riders of Rohypnol or anything but I do find it unusual that while an evil character can murder and torture, arguably the most evil things a person can do, rape is considered too taboo even for the most mature of games.
That being said it's not a big enough deal to bring it into mainstream gaming (I think art games should be free to handle it how they see fit) if it's going to offend the growing market of female gamers.
Edit: Indigo. Please stop flaming people in my topic. That goes to the guy who responded to the bait too. Calling each other simple isn't good debate practice and it only looks retarded when you start descending into childish insults.
zonking great: You are not funny. Rape is not funny. Despite what Japanese people think.
I agree, rape is a horrible thing to have as a main concept for a game let alone the actual gametype.
However, rape, can (and will) be used in games to show the morality of the character, and might be used as a good/evil choice.
What the hell? Thats worse than Bioshocks.
Yes, yes it would be, however it would be the sort of moral choice that is really lacking from games that promise moral choice. I'm not saying I want games with rape, I want games with the option of choice to do evil things.
It wont happen in a long time, however eventually games will mature enough to be able to include content like rape without using it as gameplay for strange Japanese people.
How is that a decent moral choice? There is no conceivable justification behind the act in any form, so unless it is being marketed towards the mentally disabled and psychotics, thats not a choice that would ever actually be justified.
You're assuming that the player's actions have no repercussions beyond the rape itself. For all you know, a dev could create a game in which you are given the choice to rape someone. However, if you do so, then further along down the line, the girl's father comes along with the mob and nails your character to a tree. Not every action by the player has to be rewarded.
Media, in general, is pretty darn ethically challenged. I'm not sure when we stopped screaming obscenities at the 9 o'clock news for its rather vulgar misdemeanors, and turned to our consoles to make fish-mouthed gestures of surprise, but hey. I mean, it's not like games are getting worse. We're just getting more sensitive.
Ride the time-travel wagon back to the Atari 2600 and look at anything Mystique ever made. Seriously. The infamous "Custer's Revenge" is not the only place they went terribly, terribly wrong.
If you look hard enough at any game, you're bound to find something offensive about it. Standard archetypes are inflammatory. Look at Princess Peach! What a spineless little ninny SHE is! Just your standard run-of-the-mill Princess. Kicks a little butt, but at the end of the day-- her gender makes her the universal Damsel in Distress icon for all time. If you really, REALLY wanna see me get blue in the face, ask me what I thought about the women in "Operation: Darkness".
Frankly speaking, being politically incorrect is half the fun! I'd prefer game developers spent their time making something enjoyable, not trying to tip-toe around everyone's feelings.
inu-kun: Also the reason for no one caring because the extremely machoistic man in gaming is because man know it's just fiction as opposed to the opposite sex.
CERTAIN men know the eccentrically muscle-bound Gears'o War fellas are fiction, just as CERTAIN women know Lara Croft and Barbie wouldn't be able to stand upright, if they were flesh-and-blood. Gender doesn't make people crazy. CRAZY makes people crazy.
Indigo_Dingo: Its somewhat ironic that the only current fighting game that features some restraint in depicting its female characters (Tekken 6) is being kept solely in Japan.
Errr, Virtua Fighter 5, Battle Fantasia (aside from being utterly ridiculous in general), Senko no Ronde and I'd say Street Fighter IV all fit into this category.
zonking great: You are not funny. Rape is not funny. Despite what Japanese people think.
I agree, rape is a horrible thing to have as a main concept for a game let alone the actual gametype.
However, rape, can (and will) be used in games to show the morality of the character, and might be used as a good/evil choice.
What the hell? Thats worse than Bioshocks.
Yes, yes it would be, however it would be the sort of moral choice that is really lacking from games that promise moral choice. I'm not saying I want games with rape, I want games with the option of choice to do evil things.
It wont happen in a long time, however eventually games will mature enough to be able to include content like rape without using it as gameplay for strange Japanese people.
How is that a decent moral choice? There is no conceivable justification behind the act in any form, so unless it is being marketed towards the mentally disabled and psychotics, thats not a choice that would ever actually be justified.
You're assuming that the player's actions have no repercussions beyond the rape itself. For all you know, a dev could create a game in which you are given the choice to rape someone. However, if you do so, then further along down the line, the girl's father comes along with the mob and nails your character to a tree. Not every action by the player has to be rewarded.
And, pray tell, what positive benefits could possibly come of the rape that would not be attributed to random chance?
zonking great: You are not funny. Rape is not funny. Despite what Japanese people think.
I agree, rape is a horrible thing to have as a main concept for a game let alone the actual gametype.
However, rape, can (and will) be used in games to show the morality of the character, and might be used as a good/evil choice.
What the hell? Thats worse than Bioshocks.
Yes, yes it would be, however it would be the sort of moral choice that is really lacking from games that promise moral choice. I'm not saying I want games with rape, I want games with the option of choice to do evil things.
It wont happen in a long time, however eventually games will mature enough to be able to include content like rape without using it as gameplay for strange Japanese people.
How is that a decent moral choice? There is no conceivable justification behind the act in any form, so unless it is being marketed towards the mentally disabled and psychotics, thats not a choice that would ever actually be justified.
You're assuming that the player's actions have no repercussions beyond the rape itself. For all you know, a dev could create a game in which you are given the choice to rape someone. However, if you do so, then further along down the line, the girl's father comes along with the mob and nails your character to a tree. Not every action by the player has to be rewarded.
And, pray tell, what positive benefits could possibly come of the rape that would not be attributed to random chance?
Did you actually get the point I was making at all? There don't have to be positive benefits. The player can actually be punished in-game for choosing to indulge in rape. That was my point.
zonking great: You are not funny. Rape is not funny. Despite what Japanese people think.
I agree, rape is a horrible thing to have as a main concept for a game let alone the actual gametype.
However, rape, can (and will) be used in games to show the morality of the character, and might be used as a good/evil choice.
What the hell? Thats worse than Bioshocks.
Yes, yes it would be, however it would be the sort of moral choice that is really lacking from games that promise moral choice. I'm not saying I want games with rape, I want games with the option of choice to do evil things.
It wont happen in a long time, however eventually games will mature enough to be able to include content like rape without using it as gameplay for strange Japanese people.
How is that a decent moral choice? There is no conceivable justification behind the act in any form, so unless it is being marketed towards the mentally disabled and psychotics, thats not a choice that would ever actually be justified.
You're assuming that the player's actions have no repercussions beyond the rape itself. For all you know, a dev could create a game in which you are given the choice to rape someone. However, if you do so, then further along down the line, the girl's father comes along with the mob and nails your character to a tree. Not every action by the player has to be rewarded.
And, pray tell, what positive benefits could possibly come of the rape that would not be attributed to random chance?
Did you actually get the point I was making at all? There don't have to be positive benefits. The player can actually be punished in-game for choosing to indulge in rape. That was my point.
zonking great: You are not funny. Rape is not funny. Despite what Japanese people think.
I agree, rape is a horrible thing to have as a main concept for a game let alone the actual rgametype.
However, rape, can (and will) be used in games to show the morality of the character, and might be used as a good/evil choice.
What the hell? Thats worse than Bioshocks.
Yes, yes it would be, however it would be the sort of moral choice that is really lacking from games that promise moral choice. I'm not saying I want games with rape, I want games with the option of choice to do evil things.
It wont happen in a long time, however eventually games will mature enough to be able to include content like rape without using it as gameplay for strange Japanese people.
How is that a decent moral choice? There is no conceivable justification behind the act in any form, so unless it is being marketed towards the mentally disabled and psychotics, thats not a choice that would ever actually be justified.
You're assuming that the player's actions have no repercussions beyond the rape itself. For all you know, a dev could create a game in which you are given the choice to rape someone. However, if you do so, then further along down the line, the girl's father comes along with the mob and nails your character to a tree. Not every action by the player has to be rewarded.
And, pray tell, what positive benefits could possibly come of the rape that would not be attributed to random chance?
Did you actually get the point I was making at all? There don't have to be positive benefits. The player can actually be punished in-game for choosing to indulge in rape. That was my point.
What defines them as positive benefits?
Wha!?... what positive benefits are you guys fucking talking about? I never made a single suggestion that players should be rewarded for rape. In fact, I made exactly the opposite statement- players, if they choose to rape a character, should face the negative repercussions that spring from becoming a rapist. Honestly, what the fuck are you two talking about?
shadow skill: Don't be simple, there are scenarios that one may create to justify absolutely anything.
Well sure, but those scenarions are very...
Say a creature exists that uses the females of other species to propogate itself, a type of self aware parasite if you will. From that creature's point of view it is doing what is necessary to survive, on what moral basis do you get to tell said creature that it's actions are wrong when not raping would mean that it never reproduces?
... contrived. Also, your example only works if you're a cultural relativist, which is just another way of saying nihilist.
To turn your own statement back on you it is only the simple minded that confuse their own moral compass with logic, and forget that the other party has it's own view point.
Yeah, everyone's got their view points. The Nazis, for example, had really fascinating opinions about various subject matters.
zonking great: You are not funny. Rape is not funny. Despite what Japanese people think.
I agree, rape is a horrible thing to have as a main concept for a game let alone the actual rgametype.
However, rape, can (and will) be used in games to show the morality of the character, and might be used as a good/evil choice.
What the hell? Thats worse than Bioshocks.
Yes, yes it would be, however it would be the sort of moral choice that is really lacking from games that promise moral choice. I'm not saying I want games with rape, I want games with the option of choice to do evil things.
It wont happen in a long time, however eventually games will mature enough to be able to include content like rape without using it as gameplay for strange Japanese people.
How is that a decent moral choice? There is no conceivable justification behind the act in any form, so unless it is being marketed towards the mentally disabled and psychotics, thats not a choice that would ever actually be justified.
You're assuming that the player's actions have no repercussions beyond the rape itself. For all you know, a dev could create a game in which you are given the choice to rape someone. However, if you do so, then f
Heh. What with all the special interest groups in america (let's face it, it's mostly american housewives that make a fuss), something even alluding to rape will be far off.
Also, I am quite sure the tentacle thing was before earlier. I would show you a picture, but I am not certain whether I can show that here, so I will refer to you to this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hentai so you can look at the picture in the top right.