Just a few of my thoughts on piracy.

A lot of people disapprove of piracy in videogames on the grounds that it prevents money from getting to the developers. However on the preowned market the same thing happens but at a higher cost to the consumer. Profit from the sale goes to retail chains or small buisnesses rather than the creators of the product. Yet it seems to me that people who would buy preowned games regularly believe they can take the moral high ground against pirates. Does their larger expenditure and ownership of the original product make their means of attaining the game superior to pirating - despite in both cases the makers have been given nothing?

In the case of collectors it is understandable. Also the legality and convenience of purchasing second hand goods is an advantage compared to pirates dodging laws and copy protection.However the end result is the same.

I'm a student (so by definition quite poor) and although an original copy of Panzer Dragoon Saga would be nice, I resent paying an ebayer hundreds of pounds when Team Andromeda would not see a penny of the money (although I won't pretend I would have paid that amount if they had). I used to buy games second hand but cases like that or Suikoden II made it seem much more practical to download and emulate games like these. I wouldn't buy Jeff Buckley's Grace as any royalties can't go beyond the grave, so I just torrent his discography and enjoy his entire works for nothing. However the morality of my actions are only a side issue in my case, I cannot justify the outlay on spending much on brand new games, while with second hand games I personally see no advantage over piracy. I do not pirate any next gen consoles but that is more to do with not being able to afford any as of this moment. I do pirate games now that previously I would have bought second hand on the PS2 however.

Oh, and just to make any PC gamers feel included, I pirate PC games as well. I have both KOTRs and Jade Empire on my HD so if Bioware go bust in the near future feel free to hold me personally responsible.

So theres my most likely self-contradictory, ill formed, selfish view on piracy based on my own situation. I'm respectful of other people's methods to acquire games so please no-one yell "BA5TArDs LIK U KILLD CLOVER STUDIIOS" or anything like that. I just posted this as I've been curious on peoples thoughts to my reasoning on Pre Owned games and to see what the general view on the Escapist is on the subject.

You have a good point, but the entire idea of this debate is illegal. As bad as used games are, they are sadly legal, regardless of the damage they cause

I won't buy games more than 10 years old, myself. If I cannot find the game in either of the game stores within driving distance of me, I'll probably DL. That said, I won't DL games that are easily bought. That's not fair to the publisher.

Then again, most games I want to play are classics I can get through abandonware or services like GameTap.

That said, one of my friends torrented The Sims 2 a while ago and have a crisis of guilt. She almost deleted it until I gave her a few articles about what bastards EA execs are. So she kept it. :D I would never do anything to harm companies like Insomniac or Naughty Dog though.

What else.... oh, old SNES and PSX games I once owned but lost in my big house move? Totally up for grabs.

You bring up a very good point that my mind, for some reason, just refused to register for a long time. All we hear is PIRATE = ILLEGAL NO, NO! Like those commercials for pirating movies.. "Would you beat an old innocent lady holding a baby with a stick? Then why would you pirate?"

Still, can't go to jail for buying pre-owned. Doesn't make the situation any better for anyone but you. We're selfish, selfish individuals aren't we? That's just the truth. And new games are so ridiculously priced.. Heck, it still costs 20 dollars or more to pick up Final Fantasy 7 used.

In the perfect world, we would stop pirating and stop buying used. Considering used prices on new and lasting games are mere dollars apart from their non-used counterparts, it wouldn't be all that hard to suck it up and buy new a little more. And though Gamestop doesn't necessarily provide the old classics like Genesis games, it isn't necessary to emulate either. A lot of little game sellers have a nice stock of the oldies but goodies that aren't too, too pricy.

I believe in it, but even I can't stick to my word. I need to save the money. ;_;

Is it morally better to get a pre-played game through a store instead of pirating it? No. But that doesn't make it any more legal. I have stated my views on this issue in other topics, so I won't go crazy here. All I will say is that I have no sympathy for anybody that gets caught and punished for pirating games. I will also state that I will only buy a used game from a store if there are no other options. I like playing games, especially fun ones, and if I have to pay an extra 10 to 15 dollars to help make sure the people that made it get the money that is rightfully theirs, then so be it.

I pirate music, films, pictures,(not porn) wallpapers, e-books but not games. The only reason I don't pirate games is because I don't want to void my warranty on my Elite by opening it up, and I'm shit with electronics, as for PC games to pirate them eats up my harddrive space like a bull terrier on your leg so that's out of the question too.

I was asking myself if when I've built my computer if I would pirate games because I would have the space, and the answer was no, PC games are dirt cheap and I would be able to afford two, maybe even three for the price of one console game, plus with a cracked version of the game its so much hassle with cracked servers, loopholes around validation checks to get updates, just a load of hassle that can so easily be avoided by buying the game. So I won't ever crack or pirate games but I will continue to pirate everything else to my dying days because everything else I pirate is fucking expensive to buy legally.

Ionait:
In the perfect world, we would stop pirating and stop buying used.

In this perfect world, publishers would continue making copies of their games for people like myself to purchase. I was dead set against pirating Sam and Max: Season One, so it still took me months to find a copy. If it'd been any other company (i.e. not a small indie deal that needs support), I'd have gotten the game through different means.

The fact that after two years of it's release, PC games become nigh-impossible to find pisses me the hell off.

ETA: :points down: Bravo to you, SimuLord.

I've been known to crack games, but only when the game's DRM is so Byzantine as to make legally playing my legally obtained game more trouble than it's worth. For quite awhile I'd pirate any game protected by StarForce as a way of sending a message to the developer that "I don't like any company that treats its customers like convicted felons." I'm entirely aware that I conceded the moral high ground by doing so. I just don't care.

The way I look at this one is, when buying a pre-owned game, someone has most likely previously bought it at full price. To to take this to extremes, in downloading a pirated game, only one person needs to have previously bought it for everyone to obtain it. Every pre-owned game has logically been bought at a considerably higher price at some point previously.

On the other hand, I don't rag on pirates, I just don't like doing it myself.

You do raise an interesting point. I was a big fan of used PC games back before EB pulled them from the shelves. I still like playing games one generation old, usually from the discount bin. I figure if a game is worth playing it is worth waiting for. However I guess this does adversely affect the developer's bottom line. My solution to this is when I was young and stupid I happily plopped down a month's worth of allowance for a new release. Now I trust the young and stupid to do the same to keep the industry afloat.

The difference between uploaded content and used content is this; one copy of a used title may trade hands a couple of times, but it's unlikely to do so more than a dozen times. Uploaded content, though, means that one person has bought it (maybe) and thousands can benefit. The former doesn't hurt developers any more than the used car market hurts auto manufacturers... the latter does hurt a lot more.

Besides, if you actually read the End User Licencing Agreement it's likely there's language in there granting the right to transfer the license to another party presuming that the first party has removed the content from his/her system. If so, selling your used copy of the game is entirely legal.

-- Steve

Anton P. Nym:
Besides, if you actually read the End User Licencing Agreement it's likely there's language in there granting the right to transfer the license to another party presuming that the first party has removed the content from his/her system. If so, selling your used copy of the game is entirely legal.

Yes, but with limited keys that most companies are using nowadays, it matters little if you buy the physical copy. If the game's changed hands more than twice, there's a good chance you won't be able to use it anyway.

Not refuting your argument. Just wanted to point that out.

Legality of used games aside (and they're only quasi-legal), I take the moral high ground because I neither pirate nor buy pre-owned. Though not for any moral reason... I hate used anything, I'm neurotic and consider "new" better than "used" even when it really isn't. And I'm a collector (or paranoid dumbshit) who would rather have the real, always working discs, than chance one day my HDD gets wiped and I no longer can find a game.

hamster mk 4:
My solution to this is when I was young and stupid I happily plopped down a month's worth of allowance for a new release. Now I trust the young and stupid to do the same to keep the industry afloat.

Thats exactly my attitude now. Far as I'm concerned I've sunk enough money into this industry and will only buy new games when I have no choice (Mass effect on PC, didn't want to wait for crack) or it is worth my while to do so (which is why I have the collectors edition of Fallout 3 on pre-order).

I pirate anything that isn't being sold anymore, quite frankly because it is only fair to acquire what isn't being made anymore for free (though I find myself actively pirating movies after a few weeks of their release or whatever).

the issue is not about developers getting the money, it is simply about copyright protection. current copyright protection laws do not extend into the realm of used or second hand content so therefore no copyright law is being broken.

you seem fixated on the concept of theft and financial loss, which isn't what the law deals with. it's just about you being an unauthorized copier of the content. there is no theft occurring since all you are technically doing is changing the ones and zeros on your hardrive to match the ones and zeros of another person's hard drive. you literally are not taking anything.

Bleh. Piracy? Who needs that? It's right on my list of shit I don't do. Or tolerate. Right under hacking. 2nd time this bleeding year my Steam account has been jacked. For fucks sake, if you read Zero Punctuation, bagle!!!! (which I doubt, you brainless shithead), VALVe is going to bring back my account for I have CD keys. You better give it up, you little fucker. Garry's Mod should be bought, not stolen. (My account had about 20 games, about 12-150 bucks USD of games. I'm getting them back. I take no bullshit.)

sounds to me like someone has an "unsafe" system. scan for viri and other malware more often keep your system fully updated and avoid the porn pages

pigeon_of_doom:
Oh, and just to make any PC gamers feel included, I pirate PC games as well. I have both KOTRs and Jade Empire on my HD so if Bioware go bust in the near future feel free to hold me personally responsible.

Is it really that hard to walk down to the shops and pay 10 pounds for these games?

DaruneAlbane:
sounds to me like someone has an "unsafe" system. scan for viri and other malware more often keep your system fully updated and avoid the porn pages

Haha, nogo. Not when I have a good antivirus. No viruses in the systems I use.

Last time someone admited to piracy, he saw a hammer coming at him, with the word "ban" on the stick.

hipholyte:

pigeon_of_doom:
Oh, and just to make any PC gamers feel included, I pirate PC games as well. I have both KOTRs and Jade Empire on my HD so if Bioware go bust in the near future feel free to hold me personally responsible.

Is it really that hard to walk down to the shops and pay 10 pounds for these games?

Is it really that hard to conceive that some people are unable to do so, for whatever reason?
Not saying that's his excuse, but still.

This is an extremely poor justification for pirating games. And that's all it is.

Added: Once I buy a game disc, the developer has received their due and the disc is now mine to do with as I please. This is how it has always been with all simple goods. Video games are no different. There is nothing wrong with giving away a game you paid for, or buying or selling used ones.

This is all just smoke-screen to cloud the fact that piracy = petty theft.

I HATE piraters, everytime you pirate, you kill a 360, you've killed mine, prepare to die.

sirdanrhodes:
I HATE piraters, everytime you pirate, you kill a 360, you've killed mine, prepare to die.

Pirates don't kill 360's. Microsofts shitty manufacturing does.

Stfu.

So what about pen and paper games like Shadowrun that have like a billion books that you need to pay $40+ for each to play.

juandonde:
So what about pen and paper games like Shadowrun that have like a billion books that you need to pay $40+ for each to play.

Shadowrun is a dying perfection. Spend the money, or I kill you.

Aries_Split:

juandonde:
So what about pen and paper games like Shadowrun that have like a billion books that you need to pay $40+ for each to play.

Shadowrun is a dying perfection. Spend the money, or I kill you.

After spending 8+ hours accomplishing nothing, but still having fun with it...I am considering it. Where would I buy the books though? Barnes and Noble maybe? Also which one should I buy if me and my friends are just starting out?

Well, there are those games that are leaked before release, so I'm not sure if you are taking those into account but anyway - but I have a question.

I just bought Beyond Good and Evil on Steam for 5 friggin' dollars over the weekend, does that go to ubisoft?

inu-kun:
You have a good point, but the entire idea of this debate is illegal. As bad as used games are, they are sadly legal, regardless of the damage they cause

You're saying that buying a used game should be ILLEGAL? Are you out of your mind? That's like suggesting it's immoral to buy clothes at a thrift store instead of paying 20x the amount for the same shirt at the mall. When you buy a game you have the right to sell it if you want to, just like everything else.

i can say that i have never pirated a game but you have a good point that just because i haven't doesn't mean i get to take a moral high ground especially since i buy used games but look i cant work yet the way i get games is to save up my money that i get for lunch. that's right for me i either play games or eat lunch if i can find any way to save money i take it if it means i get to eat one of those days. and one more thing i don't get why anyone could hate Gamestop or the like. yes they sell used games and don't give any money back to the developer but one for every copy of a used game at one point it was a new game its not like they take new games and slap a used sticker on it. and two I guess this is just a reason i have personally but i really like all the guys that work at my local Gamestop when people act like their criminals it just kinda pisses me off.

I only pirate games that aren't being sold on Steam.

And for some reason, the ones that aren't on Steam tend to almost always be awful anyway.

Eggo:
I only pirate games that aren't being sold on Steam.

And for some reason, the ones that aren't on Steam tend to almost always be awful anyway.

Aww, no love for direct2drive? I just recently discovered it's awesomeness for non-steam titles, it's like steam only I don't think it has auto updates.

Mistah Kurtz:

inu-kun:
You have a good point, but the entire idea of this debate is illegal. As bad as used games are, they are sadly legal, regardless of the damage they cause

You're saying that buying a used game should be ILLEGAL? Are you out of your mind? That's like suggesting it's immoral to buy clothes at a thrift store instead of paying 20x the amount for the same shirt at the mall. When you buy a game you have the right to sell it if you want to, just like everything else.

So I'm not the only one thinking this? All I do is buy used games. Mostly because every system I have nothing new comes out of it. Though the PS2 still has games coming out for it, but nothing I actually want. ...same goes for the Wii currently. *wince* I've been snatching up Gamecube games left and right here lately because my Wii is BC so why not? Here's my outlook on it. All these GC games I've been buying, I could simply pirate them and say to hell with anyone getting money. However, because I've bought them, Gamestop gets money to be able to keep its doors open so it can continue to supply new games. What is wrong with that?

Those of you who think it's such a horrible thing to buy preowned, remember this. I make about $1000 a month after taxes are taken out. My rent's $400, my car note is $280, and my car insurance is $122 a month. I'm left with roughly $200 a month for food, gas, and entertainment. I can't afford the newest release at $50+ a pop. There's PLENTY of gamers like me in the same boat. It's ridiculous to chastise someone for going a cheaper route. I, and other's like me, am still supporting the industry in buying preowned from businesses like Gamestop. There is nothing wrong with what I'm doing. It's not "moral high ground", it's called being able to do what I love and still have a roof over my head and food to keep me alive.