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Beat Writer  Posts: 164 Joined: 6 Aug 2008     | |
Paperboy  Posts: 19 Joined: 5 Aug 2008  | Spore is proof of human evolution |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 55 Joined: 27 Jun 2008   |
Religion relies on faith, http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/will_wright_makes_toys_that_make_worlds.html in which he discusses how one of his main aims is too help players intuitively imagine changes across time scales which our human brains are simply not built to imagine, |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 632 Joined: 15 Jun 2008   | It's Creatilutionism actually, haven't you seen the commercials? I don't see anything particularly offensive about Spore, it's somewhat like intelligent design, but without the intelligence. It's unintelligent design. I mean it's a game, people really need to lighten up. I'm an Atheist and I'm actually writing a paper on Spore for my College composition class called, Spore: Should I be offended? I'm definately going to buy the game, it looks really great. |
Paperboy  Posts: 46 Joined: 2 Sep 2008 | well what you should do next time some one gets up in arms about evolution being against God and all that just point out that after God makes all the animals genetic mutation still happens and animals still do their best to eat each other |
Beat Writer  Posts: 142 Joined: 15 Jul 2008  | Religious extremists fighting with atheists over video games is the same as fourteen year olds fighting over pokemon, retarded. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 161 Joined: 24 Mar 2008  | I think that apes evolved from man, and not the other way around. |
Beat Writer Posts: 174 Joined: 12 Apr 2008  | From what I see, religous zealots (at least where I am) either havent noticed or dont care... |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1058 Joined: 20 Jul 2008    | The closest thing people will get to evolution in Spore is when they finish their penis monsters, office chair monsters or video game character recreations. |
Paperboy  Posts: 39 Joined: 17 Aug 2008 | *sigh* i suppose it would be are generation that complains about everything aka "Spore teaches the theory of evolution their for i am offended" i mean hell im pretty sure when Mario came out for the Nintendo 64 Italians weren't screaming RACIEST!....canole......thats a spicy meat ah ballah sry im getting carried away |
Paperboy  Posts: 28 Joined: 11 Aug 2008 | Well, think about it like this: |
Muckraker  Posts: 311 Joined: 2 Jul 2008 |
It is not the atheists that are retarded... |
Muckraker  Posts: 271 Joined: 4 Sep 2008 | Speaking as a Christian - I'm very excited to play Spore, and I think it has some awesome gameplay elements thrown in. I also liked Black & White, and an old game called EVO for the Super Nintendo (which was pratically dripping with evolutionary theory). I even knew a Baptist preacher that loved to play Diablo. The problem is when "religious" people start blabbing about something being the "downfall of civilization" without even having a clue what they're arguing about. Like the devil himself is inside of these games. Some of them are even freaked out by Disney movies and the subject of magic. There has to be some common sense somewhere - but this is why Christians (IMO) are viewed as nutjobs, because they're more than happy to tell you how you're "going to hell" in their opinion. These games are a source of entertainment, even though some of them have a message behind them (if I have to listen to any more Kojima to enjoy his games, I'm going to pull my hair out). If you're looking to them to believe in something, you're really looking in the wrong place. |
Paperboy Posts: 12 Joined: 18 May 2008 | Spore happens to be more similar to creationism than to evolution, but I it doesn't try to make a political point, it just fits the gameplay better. And it is really funny how ignorant some people on this forums are. For your information: Biologically humans ARE apes as humans and apes both belong to the same family within the order of primates. And we did NOT evolve from the nonhuman apes that exist today but from common ancestors, that are now extinct. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1308 Joined: 12 Oct 2007   |
Why do I get the feeling I would rather have them read the works of those men than play Bioshock? |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 124 Joined: 17 Oct 2007 | I'm an atheist and I'm not offended by this. No one in their right mind should be offended by this. Creationists: IT HAS EVOLUTION. Deal with it bitch, its and game and a theory accepted by the vast majority of scientists i.e. the people actually smart enough to make an informed decision. Atheists: THERES RELIGION ALL THROUGHOUT THE CIV STAGE WITH NO SIGN OF ATHEISTS! Deal with it bitch, its a game and you play as god! You are god! If those motherfuckers DIDN'T worship me I'd stick their noses just above their asses |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 584 Joined: 10 Apr 2008 | While i should point out that i don't actually read many computer gaming articles, or watch any shows, i do feel that as an incredibly attractive and smart member of what u guys call the human race and i call my children, i can talk about this too! I think that some games need to be dissed out. I won't make some lame joke about their being so awful that they need to be dissed out (I'll leave those ones for any Yahtzee copy-cats lurking around) - I'll just talk about games like every modern game with a big bouncing pair of jugs in them, or with people killing in them. I'm not a sap but let's be honest while u guys might think it's all in good fun the people who plan the games have demographic information and they know that little kids will get more addicted to killing games and that slightly bigger little kids will grow an inch longer in both physical terms and amount-of-pressure-on-parents terms. It's almost exactly like cigarette companies. This game is not one of those games that should be dissed because a) evolution's fact -though if anyone quotes that and starts whining at me i hereby reserve the right to verbally kick their funny bones and charlie horses - and b) a game in which u create funky creatures etc is defiantly one that all people of all ages can safely play. And for that it gets mad props. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 425 Joined: 5 Jul 2008  |
You got it backwards. Creationism is based upon science, reason and tons of evidence. Evolution is based on the blind acceptance of superstitions and fairy tales. (Oh come on, people, don't you read Fundies Say The Darndest Things?) |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2053 Joined: 14 Sep 2007  | Hey, who hear reads VGCats? |
Muckraker Posts: 271 Joined: 4 Sep 2008 | That was one of my favorites. Did you search the database to see how many users have already created that thing? |
Paperboy Posts: 24 Joined: 27 Aug 2008 | Creationist theory is undeniably biased.However there is no use arguing about it as both parties believe they are right and no matter how hard they try will not be able to change each others minds. |
Muckraker  Posts: 230 Joined: 9 Jul 2008 | Actually, as a Christian, Spore falls right in line with the majority of modern Christians' beliefs. The Expanded Gap theory is based on the seven days of creation, where a day to God may very well be a few million years. Let there be light is the Big Bang (or if that theory breaks down, whatever force shaped the universe), et cetera. Evolution exists, as driven by God. Really, it's a matter of those who are offended (young earth creationists, mostly) that you would hear from, because people don't get all worked up and take to the streets yelling "I agree with that!" |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 91 Joined: 30 Apr 2008 | Im not too sure what the whole issue is honestly. Okay some people have gone berserk over the sporn but the militant atheists seem to have it in their head that Darwinism...evolution is religion. No. It isnt. Its scientifically proven fact thats been observed in bacteria. They grew a load. Killed off most, observed the remaining ones, did the same over and over again and observed actual evolution in those bactera, mutated genes and such...so as Yhatzee once said 'go team retard!' (note if i offended any militant atheists or fundamnetalists in this view and i am a nasty evil heretic, please feel free to tell god to give my name to satan) though in retrospect i suppose what i just said is void since even proof and evidence wont change the mind of X and Y parties. |
Infamous Scribbler Posts: 584 Joined: 10 Apr 2008 | Religion is humanity's group reaction to fear - i won't over-elaborate but if anyone wants to like read a blog post i once wrote on it they're free to message - anyways, religion was originally just a natural reaction to our wanting to understand the unknown (if u think about it it was n early form of science) then certain smart men realized that faith is essentially a blank check for anyone who controls the faithful - and so they founded organized religion. for the record I'm catholic - i just don't believe in it. makes little difference. I'm writing this in the spirit of impartiality so i reserve the right to diss out any random who tries to argue with me - as my peers are my witness |
Paperboy  Posts: 13 Joined: 4 Jun 2008 |
I'm an athiest and am totally inspired by Spore. My first creation was the Flying Spagetti Monster! http://www.venganza.org/ |
Paperboy  Posts: 32 Joined: 2 Sep 2008  |
just like my christian dad says to me when i talk about evolution im going to turn the phrase around "PROVE IT" see the thing about you christians is you tell us atheists that we have no proof that we evolved. but if you ask me, Christians have no proof just the same as we have no proof, and everybody just needs to accept it |
Anonymous Source Posts: 7 Joined: 8 Aug 2008 | personally im looking forward to spore. looks like fun. warning: opinionated rant below. On the point of creationism and/or evolution, believe what ever the hell you want as long as you don't hurt others. It is your personal choice and right to decide what you want to believe in. speaking as a uni lecturer, what really, really annoys me is when a shortsighted/spastic societies remove the right to education and choice from students (as i noticed quite alot of turmoil in some US states about delivery of creationism and evolution) If you must, provide both curriculum's for those who want it, but dont ban one or the other from education, that breads stupidity. These youth are the same people that will one day be incharge of running countries. I hope that this game inspires/drives discussions like this. making people stop and ask questions can only be beneficial. oh yeah and i rekon its gona be fun game to :) |
Paperboy Posts: 32 Joined: 2 Sep 2008 | oh yeah i agree its gonna be fun, im going to go get it for my macbook on saturday |
Muckraker  Posts: 230 Joined: 8 Feb 2008 |
Some creationists may be concerned that some of their standard arguments against evolution sound dismissive or patronizing. This is probably true: in any debate, it's common to frame your opponent's arguments in a weak light. Sometimes this is done deliberately to make evolution sound ridiculous, and sometimes it's done accidentally through ignorance of what evolution is and how it works. Since misinformation and ignorance are poor platforms on which to build any conversation, I present the following Evolution 101 Primer for the benefit of creationists who want a correct basic understanding of their foe. I think the best way to do this is to dispel the three most common evolution myths. Myth #1: Men evolved from apes. This is the oldest and wrongest misconception about evolution. Nobody has ever suggested that one living species changes into a different living species. Some criticisms of evolution show illustrations that fraudulently purport to show what evolutionists claim: that a salmon changed into a turtle, which changed into an alligator, which changed into a hippo, which changed into a lion, and then into a monkey, and then into a human being. Of course such a theory would seem ludicrous. But it's pure fantasy and has nothing in common with real evolution. The diversification of species is like a forest of trees, sprouting from the proverbial primordial soup. Many trees die out. Some don't grow very tall. Some have grown a lot over the eons and are still growing today. Trees branch out, and branches branch out themselves, but branches never come back together or combine from two different trees. The path of a species' evolution is shaped like the branch of a tree, not a donut, not a figure 8, not a ladder. To embrace evolution, you need not - must not - think that a salmon turns into a zebra, or that an ape turns into a man. It's simply not genetically possible. We've all seen the other famous illustration, where a monkey morphs into an ape, that morphs into a caveman, that morphs into homo sapiens. If you climb back down the tree branch, you will indeed find earlier versions of man where he was smaller, hairier, and dumber, but it won't be a modern ape. To find a modern ape, you'd need to go even further down the tree, millions and millions of years, find an entirely different branch, and then follow that branch through different genetic variants, past numerous other dead-end branches, past other branches leading to other modern species, and then you'll find the modern ape. Never the twain shall meet. Myth #2: Evolution is like a tornado in a junkyard forming a perfect 747. This is a popular manifestation of the argument that evolution depends on randomness, and so it would be impossible for complex structures to evolve. Well, this is half right, but completely wrong in its totality. Random mutations are one driver of evolution, but this argument completely omits evolution's key component: natural selection. Obviously, in reality, if a tornado went through a junkyard, you'd end up with worse junk, not a perfect 747. No evolutionary biologist, or any sane person, has ever claimed that you would. It's ridiculous. The tornado is meant to represent the random element of evolution, but genes don't mutate catastrophically all at once, like a tornado. Here is a more accurate way to use this same analogy. Imagine millions of junkyards, representing any given population. Now imagine a group of welders, who walk carefully through each junkyard, twisting this, bending that, attaching two pieces of junk here, cutting something apart there. They do it randomly and make only a limited number of small changes. Sometimes they don't change anything. This is a far more accurate representation of how genes mutate within an organism. It's not a single cataclysmic tornado. Now comes the natural selection. Let's test every piece of junk in every junkyard. Does anything work better? Does anything work worse? With millions of changes in millions of junkyards, it's inevitable that there will be some improvements somewhere. Part of natural selection is the eventual removal from the population of any organisms that are less well adapted, so to simulate this, we're going to eliminate all the junkyards where the junk was worse after the welders made their mutations. This leaves only junkyards that are stable, or that are improved. To simulate the next generation of the species, we replicate all of our current improved gene pool of junkyards, and again send in the welders. They make a few random changes in each, or no changes at all. Each time this entire process happens, the population of junkyards improves. But this doesn't happen just a few times. It happens millions or billions of times. The changes made by the welders are countless. The vast majority of changes are either useless or make things even junkier. Since natural selection automatically filters out the poorly adapted junkyards and rewards those rare improved junkyards with additional procreation, our population of junkyards gets better and better. Things start to take shape in the junkyards. Useful things. Stronger things. Things with abilities that nobody could have predicted. Any given piece of junk that improves is replicated in many junkyards, and reappears in millions of slightly altered forms each time. Pick the best version from each generation, and you can literally watch the same piece of junk evolve into a better, stronger, more useful, and better adapted machine with more capabilities. This is evolution. Myth #3: Evolution is just a theory. First of all, if you believe that most biologists consider evolution to be "just a theory", you're behind the times. Almost all biologists call it a fact, and not because they feel any particular need to respond to creationists. Second, when creationists try to put evolution down by dismissing it as "just a theory", they're actually acknowledging its scientific validity. To understand why, it's necessary to understand exactly what a theory is. When creationists use the term to disparage evolution, they really should be using the word hypothesis. A hypothesis is a provisional idea, a suggested explanation that requires validation. Evolution is well beyond that stage, though; even the staunchest anti-evolution creationists assign evolution the much higher status of theory. In order to qualify as a theory, evolution had to meet the following criteria: * A theory must originate from, and be well supported by, experimental evidence. It must be supported by many strands of evidence, and not just a single foundation. Notice that last one: tentative, correctable, and allowing for future changes. Creationists often point out that the theory of evolution is incomplete, like any theory, as if this disproves it. To be a theory, evolution must be incomplete by definition, and (no pun intended), constantly evolving. The strict scientific definition of a fact is both simpler and hazier. A fact is a verifiable observation, and evolution is verified so many times throughout the entire science of biology that most biologists call it a fact. However many scientists contend that every fact has some element of theory to it, so in this sense, it doesn't really make any difference whether evolution is called a fact or a theory. Since biologists are always learning more and adding to our knowledge of evolution, it's probably best to leave it as a theory. http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4010 And as for spore - ive only heard passing references to it as a god game by creationists. Meanwhile they fail to notice that it is a bottom up style of game rather than top down, until the very end when you stop evolving. |
Copy Clerk Posts: 91 Joined: 30 Apr 2008 | o.o...i tip my sombrero to you. |
Copy Clerk Posts: 92 Joined: 29 Aug 2008 | Evolution is the truth. Anyone that thinks otherwise is deluded. That is all. |
Beat Writer Posts: 164 Joined: 6 Aug 2008 |
Dude, I'd actually be very interested in reading it, you should post a link to it when you are done. Cool topic! |
win! ;)
On a more serious note, I'm disappointed that there aren't any legitimate articles on it... it is just begging for it...